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Intuit's Razor

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:02:12 PM PDT

I'm beginning to think there's a lot to be learned about the future of technology by looking more closely at how we've gotten to where we are. My story about how WordPerfect lost out to Word prompted many insights from readers, including some with inside knowledge of what happened back then. Now my recent story about some of the games Intuit plays with Quicken customers prompted some interesting observations from an old Intuit hand.


The reader writes:

"I used to work for Intuit, starting in 1988 in tech support, and leaving in 1999, having been a tech writer, engineer, and web developer. Throughout the 90's, a continuing theme that popped up in discussions of the future of the product was that you can only put so many new features in before you run out -- and then how would you get people to upgrade? I heard that sometimes features were left out specifically so there would be features left to put in a new version. That's when you started to see all those expert videos and investment guides -- only available in the new version, of course. They were pretty spiffy, but they were considered to only delay the inevitable."

"You see, and I'm sure you already know this, Scott Cook's original business idea was all about razors and razor blades. Quicken would be the razor, with checks being the blades that you always need to buy more of. Check sales were 40 percent of the business for a long time. But the Fed or the Treasury or somebody had made predictions that processing the ever-growing number of checks flowing through the U.S. banking system would soon clog it up, and recommended increasing the role of electronic transactions. Intuit responded by looking into how they could help that happen/capitalize on it. One of the first ideas was to do electronic payments. (Interestingly, when no method of electronic payment could be found, the payment center would cut a paper check to send out. Eventually they sold the business because it wasn't working out as hoped.) When the web caught on in the mid to late 90's, we started to see all the add-ons for managing your investments with live updates."

"I've heard many tales of woe from friends who stayed at Intuit. A lot of people don't like their new policies, but what can you do? When Scott Cook was running the company, he used to say that Intuit was data-driven, meaning that marketing took a lead in finding out what people want, and we acted to provide the product or solution they wanted. It's pretty clear that they don't think much about the customer anymore. It's all about getting you hooked, and then forcing you to upgrade."

"Frankly, I thought the last DOS version was one of the best Quickens -- fast, easy to use, reliable -- and I think it was the second or third Windows version that was the best of the newer generation. Funny thing: I had a hard drive crash in the late 90's. When I recovered everything, it turned out my Quicken backup disk was bad -- just a coincidence -- and I lost years worth of data. Rather than recreate it or start new, I never got around to putting my data back into Quicken. Can't tell you why, but I never missed it."

"I think what Quicken has lost is humility and gratitude, which I believe both came from that hungry and broke time, schlepping Quicken 1 to magazines and banks -- their first outlet -- and trying to generate some interest. The people who run it now know a sleek money machine when they see it, and hire management to keep it sleek, which doesn't necessarily mean keeping customers happy. As long as enough customers keep upgrading, and few enough customers get screwed, well ... And I thought that kind of logic was reserved for sending troops into battle."

Indeed, I do remember hearing Scott Cook's razorblade idea -- in fact, I was at Personal Computing back in about in 1984 when they were doing that schlepping. (As long as we're talking about how software companies went wrong, is there anything to be learned from why defunct computer publications bit the dust? If so, I'd have a few stories to tell.) Of course, I thought the whole idea was crazy, which shows what I know.

But what do you think? Is it inevitable that technology companies that start out with great ideas and a desire to help their customers follow the path that Intuit has? Post your comments below or write Ed Foster at Foster@gripe2ed.com.

< Western Digital Lies About Warranty Status | Keeping Up With Verizon's Sneakwrap Changes >


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Intuit's Razor | 20 comments (20 topical) | Post A Comment
Not Invevitable[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by srynas on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 12:07:59 PM PDT

My opinion is that the problem with Intuit is that it has been taken over by the Marketing Department. Everything about Intuit is geared towards making the next sale. I hate to admit to participating in their "upgrade" program and to buying the current versions of Quicken and TurboTax. These programs continue to be riddled with advertising come-ons. Not only that but when you use the "help" feature instead of going to an obvious help screen you are accosted with upgrade offers. This is ridiculous. It seems unnecessary for Intuit to force fed consumers advertising for a product that they are currently using. Of interest, Intutuit does have a user forum website. Many of the user have expressed the same concerns expressed on this website about Intuit's underhanded business practices. What is amazing is the response of some of the Senior Forum members. Their responses have been very defensive comments along with ad hominem attacks against posters. In reviewing the forum, I also did not get a sense that Intuit is actually working on making program fixes for problems reported. I just "upgraded" from Quicken 2005 to 2008. The "upgrade" was essentially painless. Though it went well a couple of issues did crop-up. 1. Backing up to CD no longer works. Evidently this is a know problem, but I have not seen any comment from Intuit that his issue is being fixed. 2. The back-up screen has been downsized. In Quicken 2005 you could select the Quicken file to back-up. Now you have to open each file individually to do a back-up. Clearly this is disabling an existing feature. I fail to see the rationale for Intuit paying programmers to disable a back-up option. 3. A word of warning. Quicken points out how you have a XX days to return the product if you don't like it. Sounds good, but there is a catch. When you "upgrade" Quicken makes the data unavailable to the prior version. So if you decide to go back to the old version, you can't. Technically you can, but you loose all the data that you entered with when using the "new" version.

[ Reply to This ]


Not Intuit, but related to an earlier gripe[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 12:12:03 PM PDT

I seem to recall a company named Digital River coming up as the subject of a gripe within the past few months. I don't remember exactly what the provocation was, but I think we can add exposing customers' personal data to the rap sheet now.

I just got an email from them confirming somebody else's order.

Whoever it was apparently misspelled their e-mail address in the order forms, or purposely used a phony one to avoid the possibility of spam but happened to pick one that was genuinely in use.

Either way, I would up with a plaintext order confirmation with someone else's street address and a bit of financial information in it. The customer's home address and shipping address were both in there (and in this case were the same, but if the customer had shipped to a P.O. box it still wouldn't have stopped the email exposing their home address).

Apparently they don't verify that an e-mail address belongs to the correct person before sending information on it.

I recall this site having featured, in the not too distant past, a) gripes about Digital River doing other shenanigans and b) gripes about a different company, I think a telecom, persistently sending emails with sensitive information meant for a customer to the wrong address and refusing to correct the error.

I replied to the Digital River originated email to alert them that they'd "gotten the wrong number" and suggest that they change such emails to just contain links back to their site, where a customer can login to see whatever the email would have contained.

I am, of course, keeping the customer data that I saw confidential.


[ Reply to This ]



Please, let's not go nuts[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:48:45 PM PDT

I'm sorry, but I just don't consider my name and address confidential information. Hundreds - thousands - maybe millions, for all I know - of business have it.

Now, if DR had emailed you their customer's banking information - checking account info, credit card numbers - or something else that would generally be accepted as confidential then I'd be more concerned.

But a couple addresses? Please.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



It's happened again.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:27:46 AM PDT

"I'm sorry, but I just don't consider my name and address confidential information."

You may not, but you are not everyone.

And we now have another example of businesses disclosing this kind of customer information blindly via e-mail: TheraBreath, apparently a company that makes toothpaste and other similar products.

The same person ordered products from there and gave my e-mail address again, and this time apparently the products ordered were a gift, because the shipping address wasn't the home address this time. So now I have TWO peoples' addresses.

TheraBreath's mailing also contained customer credit card information. You may not be worried about your home address being exposed to random people on the 'net, but your credit card info?

Needless to say, TheraBreath has been notified of their breach too now, and I won't disclose or misuse the information in their email to anyone.

Meanwhile, the list of companies that will blindly send customer-directed email to the wrong address grows to three:



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Paranoid?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:18:48 AM PDT

Certainly, credit card data and other personal financial information should never be sent in an email. But name and address? That information is only considered secret by the terminally paranoid. It's in the phone book. It's readily available from the DMV (at least in Florida). You've given it to any business you've done business with (even casually). What do you think will happen if somebody gets ahold of that information? You'll get more junk mail?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Apparently...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 09:42:40 AM PDT

...you've never been stalked before.

Well, you know what they say. There's a first time for everything.


[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Oh Puhleeze, let's inject some reality here[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:45:29 AM PDT

The act of knowing an address is a stalking threat? Most stalking incidents are related to personal relationship issues or matters of celebrity. The probability that a stalking threat will result because a random person somewhere in the world receives a name and address is so remote that I would be more worried about protecting my home from meteorite hits. ... and remember this is all a result of the customer apparently deliberately entering a bogus e-mail address when purchasing.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Reality? I'll give you reality...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:33:20 PM PDT

The act of knowing an address is a stalking threat?

No, but it increases the risk.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Wow[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 06:55:35 AM PDT

So that means the phone book is a veritable wealth of stalking danger? Or for that matter, Google, or 411.com?

This is starting to sound more tin-foil hat than real

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Apparently...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 05:21:17 AM PDT

...you've never heard of things like unlisted phone numbers either. :P

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Why is this Digital River's problem?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:35:00 AM PDT

I fail to see why this is considered DR's problem. What do you want them to do to confirm an e-mail address that a customer has posted to them? How much feedback handshake to you want to partake in to place an order with an on-line business? I really have no desire to go through a "you placed an order with us, are you who you say you are?", "yes I am", "are you sure" exchange when I place an order. The responsibility for making sure the return e-mail address is correct is mine and mine alone.

A customer places an order with an on-line business. They are usually presented at least two opportunities to assure that the information entered is correct. If the customer deliberately chooses to enter a false e-mail address, then I would place the blame solely and solidly on the customer who does so.

As far as the company that returned "credit card information"; how much information are we talking here? Just the last 4 digits i.e., the e-mail says, "you paid with your Discover card with the last 4 digits 1549" that seems to be the current working trend is hardly a security breach.

I just don't see the issue here.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



What to do[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 01:37:57 PM PDT

What do you want them to do to confirm an e-mail address that a customer has posted to them?

Why, nothing, of course. Instead, their emails can simply not directly disclose any of a consumer's personal info. They can link back to their site with a URL full of ?custID=gibberish?orderID=ghgfh that produces a login prompt and requires a previously established password before it will reveal any data, unless the original customer goes there and hasn't cleared out the cookie set when they logged in before to place the order of course.

The email could say something like order number xyz has now been shipped or whatever, without revealing what the product actually is or where it's going, providing such a link as described above to actually confirm such details; most customers are likely just to be satisfied with the message saying that the thing is on the way though.

If there's no way in hell for the product's identity to be sensitive it might as well be disclosed. New 19" LCD monitor? Fine. X-rated video? Best just to mention a cryptic order-number. :)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Not what the original person said[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:01:58 AM PDT

The original comment was,
Apparently they don't verify that an e-mail address belongs to the correct person before sending information on it.

Sounds to me like the demand was for some sort of e-mail confirmation handshake.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Actually...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 05:20:21 AM PDT

...it's perfectly consistent, because the suggestion above would result in their not sending any sensitive information to any email address whatsoever.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Upgrading your only backup file?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by MrsPost on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:04:50 AM PDT

I may come off as a troll here but who upgrades their only current datafile? Or even doesn't make a current backup before upgrading?

I always make a copy of any file that needs to be 'upgraded' so I know I'm not going to lose any information if there's a problem or I want to downgrade.

Especially with companies like Intuit I know there isn't going to be a 'revert to previous version' or ability to downgrade. So better safe than sorry, make a copy of the datafile, then upgrade.

You will lose whatever you had entered into the new version obviously but you won't lose the bulk of your data.

And for even more safety move those copies to some directory the program doesn't use. There's no telling if they're going to be helpful and remove them during the upgrade.

Yes, I'm cynical. But experiences like this have taught me to be so.

[ Reply to This ]



Always good to backup[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by srynas on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:21:46 AM PDT

Its good advice to backup before "upgrading". But the issue is one of onerous business practices that show a contempt for the user of the product.

Intuit has gone out of its way to make its "new" version incompatible with the "old" version. While backing-up saves your old data; should you go back to the "old" version you loose all the data you entered while using the "new" version. This is totally unnecessary.  

If Intuit were a consumer friendly company, as they proclaim, they would make it possible to go back to the old version without having to use a backup and without having to re-enter all your data that was entered when using the "new" version.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Not inevitable, but...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 07:28:11 AM PDT

...Far more likely as a company grows big, and gets a CEO and board of directors who care about "maximizing shareholder dividends", and thus, their hold on power/pay/prestige than they do providing a good product, or having satisfied customers and good service.

McAfee and Symantec are two larger examples of the Intuit scenario, and someone mentioned Digital River, who mainly just gobbles up other software companies and sells those products, coasting on minimal development necessary to keep a semblance of compatibility with newer operating systems.

There are a number of companies who do take pride in their software, they just don't seem to be as large. I'd like to see a large software company whose business is run like Costco's: I'd buy product from them any day.

[ Reply to This ]



I agree[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:40:26 AM PDT

Unfortunately, COSTCO is the exception in the large corporation world.  Wall street doesn't like them because they are too good to their employees (pay, benefits etc.) and there ave a long term growth strategy where they don't care too much about "This Quarters" numbers as long as they are on the correct path.  Wall Street can't comprehend that taking care of the customers and the employees will result in a beneficial outcome for its shareholders.

I wish I could recommend a large, well managed S/W company with a great product, but sadly, none comes to mind.  Unfortunately, my list of companies I will not do business with is far longer than the companies I would like to support.

I certainly can recommend a small company distributing Configuration Management software:  Qumasoft.com's QVCS-Pro.  I've used it for years.  They are constantly updating their product for ease of use and functionality.  Once, I discovered a (low-probability) bug that was introduced by an upgrade.  I notified the company via email - it was fixed by the next day.  Try getting that from Microsoft or Intuit.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Yep, Quicken 2.x for Windows was the bomb[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by davidspalding on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 09:20:48 AM PDT

Oh, I miss PC/COMPUTING. I was about to comment on your 12/2007 post about WordPerfect, citing a "showdown" review baof WinWord, Ami Pro, and WordPerfect, finding each to be a leader in 1 of 3 core areas. ... The days when Penn Jillette had the  back page.... (sigh)

Your reader is right, Quicken 2.0 or so for Windows was terrific. Fast, portable (it would run off a floppy, IIRC), foolproof, crash resistant. I was so sold on Quicken + Checkfree, that it took a considerable amount of temptation from my own bank, USAA,  to finally ditch the combination.

I loved it. For years later, I stopped upgrading, and have only in the last 10 years, upgraded a few times, when my current bank (no longer USAA) claims "we don't support Quicken 2004, you need to upgrade to 2005" or some such. What's up with that? Clearly, it's more appealing to Intuit to incorporate bank profiles in recent versions, then providing backwards compatibility for long-time customers.

What do I use now? Excel, and Pocket Excel on my 1999-era Cassiopeia. :)

[ Reply to This ]



video converter software[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:43:36 AM PDT

Here is Video Converter Download dot com. you can download Video Converter here, and also you can download DVD Ripper, DVD Creator, DVD to iPod, DVD to MP4. The FLV to WMV site you can find software to convert FLV to WMV, FLV to AVI MPEG WMV 3GP MP4 iPod converter, Free FLV to WMV converter, FLV to WMV converter video files, How to convert FLV to WMV. More useful software for you video movie entertainment: iPod Converter, Video Edit Software, Video editor, Video Cutter, Video Splitter, Video Joiner, AVI to iPod, convert DVD to iPod, convert AVI to iPod, convert WMV to iPod, convert MPEG to iPod, convert FLV to iPod, WinXmedia AVI MPEG iPod converter, AVI to iPod softwares free download, iPod to PC transfer, iPod to Mac transfer, DVD maker, AVI to DVD, MPEG to DVD, DVD Audio ripper, YouTube to iPod converter, iPod rip, iPod Movie converter, DVD to 3GP, 3GP Video Converter, DVD to Zune, Zune Converter, Convert WMV to FLV , Convert FLV to WMV MPG MPEG, FLV Video Converter, Video to FLV Converter, YouTube FLV in WMV, DVD to PSP, PSP converter, MP4 to MP3, DVD to iPhone, iPhone converter, DVD to Apple TV, Apple TV converter, DVD to WMV converter, DVD to DivX, DivX to DVD

[ Reply to This ]


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