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Oh, No -- It's Comcastic

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 12:56:23 AM PDT

Can a vendor with a monopoly on providing one type of service to you cripple it if you refuse to buy other services from them as well? That's what many readers suspect Comcast of doing, and not just because of the recent revelations about its throttling of P2P traffic. Quietly charging more for less whenever possible is what many of its customers think Comcast is all about.


Comcast's use of phony TCP reset packets against some broadband customers has spurred several lawsuits and even today's FCC hearing, as well as hopefully refocusing public attention on the whole net neutrality issue. In its defense, Comcast claims that its steps to arbitrarily slowing BitTorrent or other traffic are "reasonable network management practices" that Internet providers have the right to do. But while there are some very interesting arguments to be made on both sides of the net neutrality debate, it should be pointed out that Comcast's behavior is part of a pattern GripeLog readers have seen before.

"To me, the BitTorrent throttling is just another manifestation of the same junk I went through with Comcast," writes one of the readers who last year had his Internet service cut off after supposedly violating a usage limit that Comcast refuses to specify. "In both cases, somebody at Comcast targets you for reasons they will not make clear. How much do you want to bet that the real limit is you've got to have a monthly bill of a hundred bucks or so? Just order lots of premium movie channels, and you can probably download anything you want without Comcast saying boo."

Comcast has said that only extremely heavy usage will violate its usage limit, but its refusal to say where that line is certainly leaves the impression that other criteria than sheer traffic may be involved. Another point of suspicion is the fact that the company rewrote its sneakwrap terms to incorporate that "reasonable network management practices" standard after the P2P throttling story broke. "How convenient," noted one reader sarcastically. "The fact that Comcast was doing this before its ToS (Terms of Service) said it could is no problem, right? Like everybody else, Comcast can rewrite the ToS anytime it wants, because it says it can in the ToS."

Of course, it's not just Comcast broadband customers who find themselves being squeezed. "I have had Comcast's cable TV 'silver tier' for about ten years now," one reader. "This gives me lots of channels, and costs less than if I were a new customer signing up for the various packages that would give me these same channels. I am 'grandfathered' in at the current contract level and price. Although they haven't said so, they are apparently interested in having me switch to one of their current packages. Tactic #1: any new channels they add, I don't get. You name it, it's not part of my package. Tactic #2: every few months, I lose a channel that I used to be able to get. If it gets renamed, or moved to a different channel number, I no longer get it. I have called to complain. Ha, ha, ha! They are very nice, and the customer service people are here in the US. Denver I think. But they are very unable to help me. Boo hoo, they say, just sign up with one of their current packages, and pay more."

Indeed Comcast's fondness for nickel and diming its cable TV customers was clearly one of the big reasons it finished so strongly in the Worst Vendor poll. "I realized I was paying a monthly fee for channels I never wanted," wrote another reader. "When I called Comcast to change it I was told that there is a standard $1.99 fee to make any changes to my account. Excuse me? I wonder if this would also apply if I anted up for the triple play, HD box and DVR. What customer-oriented company charges a fee to change monthly service?"

And what kind of company thinks that "reasonable network management practices" include faking reset commands? I suppose we can hope that the FCC will find out exactly what Comcast is up to, although I'm not going to holding my breath. We don't know for sure how reasonable Comcast's practices really are, but we do know it will continue to try to keep them secret.

Do we need a net neutrality law? Tell us what you think by posting your comments below or by writing Ed Foster at Foster@gripe2ed.com.

< Less-Than-Genuine Buyer Protection | Theoretically Repairable TVs Are Just Junk >


Display: Sort:
Oh, No -- It's Comcastic | 23 comments (23 topical) | Post A Comment
Business Cable Modems[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by tscoff on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:19:57 AM PDT

I have a couple of Comcast's cable modems, but they're for businesses and are on Comcast's business service.  They have static IP addresses and are not restricted.

Each of them costs me $179/month, and part of what I get for the more expensive service is much faster access to tech support.  I run servers on those cable modems and Comcast knows it.  That's why I pay the extra, so that I can run those servers.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch and you get what you pay for are two old gems that come to mind.

[ Reply to This ]



Not the issue[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by srynas on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 05:58:34 AM PDT

True, there is no free lunch. But that is not the issue here.  The issue is that companies believe that they can negate any customer agreement at any time.

If a company offers a service and finds out that they are "losing" money; too bad.  A company should not have a right to cancel a contract in order to charge more.  If a company has a right to change a contract at will, then simple logic dictates that a customer should have a right to change the terms of service too.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Net Neutrality[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by srynas on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:13:53 AM PDT

Moving packets on the internet should be neutral. Based on the various schemes to "manage" packet flow, I am developing a fondness for a net neutrality law. The problem with any law that may be passed to "guarantee" net neutrality will be how to prove that a neutrality violation occurred.

All laws are subject to innovative interpretations. So even though I would favor a law conceptually "guarantying" net neutrality, I suspect that by the time one is passed that it will be so riddled with exemptions and loopholes that it would allow the interpretations of packet management that would actually allow "violations" of net neutrality principles.

[ Reply to This ]



Competition[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 08:51:57 AM PDT

We don't need net neutrality legislation; the lobbyists will ensure it's full of loopholes, likely involving the phrase "reasonable network management". :P What we need is real competition in the broadband space. The market will then enforce net neutrality.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


It's not Comcastic, just expensive[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 10:42:04 AM PDT

I have a non-digital Comcast cable service.  Lately, Comcast has been removing channels, and raising prices.  If I want to continue to get these channels, I need to upgrade to digital service, for $15/month more.  It seems as though they are trying to get everyone to switch to the digital service.  If I do that, will I still be able to record shows on my vcr or dvr, or do I need to also subscribe to their digital recorder box?

[ Reply to This ]


Comcast Cable Service[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 10:58:34 AM PDT

When I had Comcast analog cable service 5 years ago, they continually dropped channels and didn't add new channels just as you described. The price never went down. I finally got fed up and switched to satellite. Crisp, clear pitcure, 5 times the channels, satellite radio, Tivo and 25% cheaper per month. I actually saved enough in the first year to pay for the Tivo box. Now 5 years later, I'm still paying less than I paid for analog digital from Comcast. I would never again do business with them. Truthfully, I would rather use dial-up than Comcast

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


What joy for home recording?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:38:19 PM PDT

But who offers service that will allow one to continue using one's own VCR or homebrew DVR? I find no flavor in subscribing to Tivo or another crippled DVR.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


VCRs/Homebrews should work[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 09:37:00 AM PDT

The signal is still analog for your TV so it should drive your vcr and homebrew dvr. However, you will probably need an extra satellite receiver box to record channels at will (which means you may have to add a IR gizmo to your setup).

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


digital/analog and VCRs[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:48:58 PM PDT

The difference between analog cable and digital cable is entirely in the signal hitting the cable box. So you needn't worry about being unable to use your existing VCR with digital cable. In fact, the physical cable coming into your home carries both signals at the same time. The only differences at your end are the type of cable box, the amount you pay, and how many channels you get. The signal from the box to the TV is pretty much pure analog, since that's what most TVs are, and they don't want to be unable to make money off people with older TVs. That won't change even after the legislated switchover to all-digital TV broadcasts, since most people's TVs will be analog for many years to come, and just use digital receivers to convert the digital broadcast to the analog signal older TVs use.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Changing monthly service fee[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 10:53:02 AM PDT

What other companies charge to change monthly service plans? Many: AT&T and Dish Network, to name just two. Maybe they aren't exactly customer-oriented. That term is anachronistic nowadays, sad to say.

[ Reply to This ]


Yes, but...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:12:19 AM PDT

Sure, everyone charges monthly service plans. However, I find Comcast to be more expensive than most other plans if you want anything decent.

When I bought an HDTV this past year, I looked at upgrading the cable package to get HD across all the channels I do get. Which isn't many; I get Comcast's very basic service, mainly because if I don't, it actually costs MORE to just get Cable internet by itself. Comcast tells me I'm getting a "discount" for signing up for both services.

When I called, I found out that it wasn't just a matter of getting digital cable, or adding an HD package --I had to upgrade to digital cable, then move two tiers up from standard, and THEN I'd get HD --I believe I had to pay an additional fee for that as well.

I told them to forget it. I get the local channels in HD, and I'll settle for that for now --until Dish Network lofts a satellite this year that will allow me to receive my local channels in HD. When that happens, I'll be able to switch to AT&T, and get my phone, Internet, and a 100-channel package with HD for far less than Comcast wants, and it won't be a "for the first x months then the price goes up" package.

Comcast really does nickel-and-dime, and it adds up really quickly. As a result, I'll spend my nickels and dimes elsewhere as soon as I can, and take what little I have been giving them away.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Comcast HD w/o Digital Stations[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Seaan on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 01:23:52 AM PDT

This can be done, at least in the California central coast region. I had extended basic service (approx 60 channels), but I never found it worthwhile to get digital cable (incidentally this also meant I stopped purchasing PPV since Comcast no longer offers that on analog).

When I bought a HDTV, I looked at the options and found there is an option for extended basic + HDTV. They don't advertise it, but most regions have it. I had to pay $5 a month per box extra, and it is basically the same box you get for DVR/digital cable. BTW - their HD line up is slowly improving but still way behind satellite (now have around 10-15 channels, up from the 6 they had last year).

The DVR option is a joker, they will not sell you the DVR functionality without Digital cable - e.g. $30/month more than I'm paying now. It does not take very many months of that to make buying a HD Tivo a much better deal! Which I have not done yet, but I'll leave DVR discussions for another post.

One odd thing about this is the partial channel receptions. Of course I don't get most of the digital cable stations - no problem with that. But I do get some - for example our local PBS station has 4 or 5 digital broadcasts that I can receive. I also can use the Comcast OnDemand (a good feature that - one of the few places Comcast is doing something right) occasionally to view material from a digital channel that I don't receive live (hmm, maybe there is a benefit to this being a little known option).

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Oh yeah - Disclosure[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Seaan on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 01:37:24 AM PDT

BTW - just for disclosure purposes, part of my job is related to the AT&T Uverse system. I'd take that over Comcast any day, but (without any insider knowledge) I suspect this is unlikely for a while - being that my somewhat remote home town only got DSL 3 or 4 years ago!

I also had to rule out satellite TV. I have not tried it, but I live in a deep valley and my next door neighbor could not hit the satellite because of a mountain in the way. I'm not a great fan of DirectTV's DRM policies, but short of Uverse or FIOS they have the best lineup of HDTV channels.  

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



See what you've got before you pay Comcast more[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 07:23:05 PM PDT

We just bought a flat-screen TV for our workout room, the first HD-capable TV in the house.

We plugged it into our purely analog Comcast cable, and - hey! it found around 50 digital channels, including the digital version of all of the local channels.

Some of the digital channels are garbage, but a lot of them aren't. (Some of them look like a menu screen from one of their On Demand products.)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Re: See what you've got...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 09:09:43 PM PDT

Hi,

I'm the OP who posted about buying a new HDTV.

Yes, I did get additional channels; if you purchase a television with a QAM tuner, it can pull any digital channels that Comcast doesn't choose to encrypt. This will generally mean all the "basic cable channels", and possibly analog channels you already got will also be available in digital.

All but your local channels will be standard-definition, even in digital format. Your local channels will probably be in HD, or at least they will be for content created in HD. However, if you want any of your non-locals in HD, you need to upgrade packages. In my area, the standard (which isn't a "basic" package, either) digital cable package isn't enough --you need to go to the next package up. That's another $40-50 per month for me, and I'm not sure that includes the fees it would take to add HD on to the channels.

Comcast's prices in my area for their package when compared to AT&T bundling phone/DSL/Dish Network are highway robbery for all but the most basic package. The only reason I haven't switched yet is because Dish offers all BUT the local channels in HD. Their plan is to launch another satellite this year that will take care of this; if that happens, I'll be able to add the features I want, while paying a maximum of $20 more per month (perhaps nothing if I play around with internet speeds or phone features) and getting more than double the TV channels WITH the included HD package. Too bad AT&T doesn't have their U-Verse service in my area; I'd have signed up already.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



BitTorrent throttling[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 10:54:44 AM PDT

BitTorrent kept slowing down to nothing until I figured out Comcast was sending the resets.
Now I have my Linux firewall (software called iptables) configured to drop all packets with the Reset flag set.

BitTorrent screams & Comcast can't stop it.  ;-)


[ Reply to This ]



no rule provided?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 09:39:55 AM PDT

Ah, come on, post the iptable rule.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


greed[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by wawadave on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:31:30 PM PDT

Cor-pirations and the need for greed!
RFID Tags Spyware!
[ Reply to This ]


Comcast's mode of operation[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:55:42 AM PDT

I am not a Comcast customer.  However I receive at least 2 snail mail offers a week to become one.  To me, Comcast appears to use deceptive advertising.  To attempt to figure out the real price of their service, not only does one have to read the fine print, but is required to do math too.  They are constantly saying they are more reliable than satellite, especially during storms.  I can remember  perhaps 3 times in 5 years where my service was interrupted for all of 5 seconds when a lightning strike occurred in the signal path.  I've had friends tell me their cable goes down regularly for hours or sometimes days at a time.
Bottom line:  I think they are the sleaze of the content providers.  I can't help but wonder how much cheaper their prices would be if they only sent junk mail to me once a quarter or so...  

[ Reply to This ]


&#12450;&#12480;&#12523;&#12488;[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:06:38 AM PDT

アダルト

[ Reply to This ]


&#20154;&#22971;&#24859;[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:07:41 AM PDT

人妻出会い

[ Reply to This ]


12463;&#12473;&#12375;&#1[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:13:43 AM PDT

セックスしたいセックススナイパー

[ Reply to This ]


software media[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:53:41 AM PDT

Here is Video Converter Download dot com. you can download Video Converter here, and also you can download DVD Ripper, DVD Creator, DVD to iPod, DVD to MP4. The FLV to WMV site you can find software to convert FLV to WMV, FLV to AVI MPEG WMV 3GP MP4 iPod converter, Free FLV to WMV converter, FLV to WMV converter video files, How to convert FLV to WMV. More useful software for you video movie entertainment: iPod Converter, Video Edit Software, Video editor, Video Cutter, Video Splitter, Video Joiner, AVI to iPod, convert DVD to iPod, convert AVI to iPod, convert WMV to iPod, convert MPEG to iPod, convert FLV to iPod, WinXmedia AVI MPEG iPod converter, AVI to iPod softwares free download, iPod to PC transfer, iPod to Mac transfer, DVD maker, AVI to DVD, MPEG to DVD, DVD Audio ripper, YouTube to iPod converter, iPod rip, iPod Movie converter, DVD to 3GP, 3GP Video Converter, DVD to Zune, Zune Converter, Convert WMV to FLV , Convert FLV to WMV MPG MPEG, FLV Video Converter, Video to FLV Converter, YouTube FLV in WMV, DVD to PSP, PSP converter, MP4 to MP3, DVD to iPhone, iPhone converter, DVD to Apple TV, Apple TV converter, DVD to WMV converter, DVD to DivX, DivX to DVD

[ Reply to This ]


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