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Less-Than-Genuine Buyer Protection

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:01:37 AM PDT

When price hunting online, there's always the risk that the merchant with the cheapest price may be selling phony goods. Many customers rely on the buyer protection plans of sites like Pricegrabber.com as the only leverage they have if the unknown vendor stiffs them. But one reader recently discovered that such buyer protection means little with a product like Microsoft Windows, which after all is only genuine until Microsoft says otherwise.


The reader's father, who is in his 70s, has had some bad luck when it comes to buying softwarre that passes Microsoft's various tests for genuineness. "My father had purchased a computer from someone, and it turned out it had an illegal copy of Windows on it," the reader wrote. "Trying to save my father a little money, I told him I could get a valid copy for a reasonable price on Pricegrabber.com. In May last year I purchased a copy of Windows XP Pro from JomartSales through Pricegrabber for $94. The product came and I installed it on my father's computer and everything seemed to be working fine."

The reader's father used the copy of XP over six months without a problem. "In December my father called me and said that when he tried to update Windows, Microsoft returned an error stating that this was a stolen volume license and that he needed to get a new license," the reader wrote. "Shocked, I thought I should check with the seller, JoMart. Of course, the seller is long gone, e-mail bounces with no reply. So I contacted Pricegrabber since the sale was supposed to be covered by Pricegrabber's buyer protection plan. They said that the purchase was outside their 60-day window for buyer protection -- the fact that we just now found out it was not a legitimate copy doesn't matter to them."

To his credit, the reader was not going to let it stop there. He decided to contact his credit card company, even though the sale had taken place a half year ago. "The matter has been resolved, although I am not sure how," the reader wrote me back a few weeks later. "The credit card company just sent me a letter stating that they resolved the issue with the merchant and my account was credited the amount charged. What I do not know is if the credit card company resolved it with Pricegrabber or the actual merchant. I did recieve a credit so I am not out any actual cash, just the time and exasperation of having to address this whole thing."

But the reader is still quite unhappy with Pricegrabber. "My father, bless his heart, is having a tough time trying to understand why all this happened," the reader wrote. "It was not an easy reponse for him or me to accept from PriceGrabber when they said they would not assist even when the purchase was supposed to be protected with their buyer protection. I guess the net result is I am not going to do business with PriceGrabber any further. It turned out not to be worth the few dollars in savings for me."

But does all the blame rest with Pricegrabber? Obviously the apparentlly defunct JoMart deserves a lot of it. Some might argue that the reader himself should have smelled a rat much earlier with the volume license copy. But I would also point to Microsoft and its Byzantine sales system that makes it impossible to know for sure if we are getting the genuine article.

Where do you think the blame lies? Post your comment below or write me at Foster@gripe2ed.com.

< TaxCut Takes Privileges for Granted | Oh, No -- It's Comcastic >


Display: Sort:
Less-Than-Genuine Buyer Protection | 25 comments (25 topical) | Post A Comment
Get Windows directly from Microsoft?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by aloishammer on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:35:55 PM PDT

Microsoft still has a program running whereby you can get valid copies of Windows if you send them your counterfeit software (and presumably some information to help identify the source). Unfortunately, this means a free copy of Vista, apparently, not Windows-XP-for-Windows-XP or the like. Still, it might be worth checking out.

[ Reply to This ]


Thanks![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by PsiCop on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:03:54 AM PDT

I know someone who bought a used PC (I advised him against it at the time, but I guess the price was right!) and got stuck this way. This program may be just the ticket he needs to get out of it. Thanks for the link!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


video joiner[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 22, 2008 at 01:51:12 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Apparently it Was a "Genuine Version"[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by srynas on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 06:04:01 AM PDT

At the fundamental level, the reader's father apparently did have "Genuine" Microsoft software, the problem is that it had a "stolen volume key". I assume then it took Microsoft a period of time to discover the "stolen key" in order to flag his father's computer. So it would appear to be bit disingenuous for Microsoft to assert that the product in not a genuine Microsoft product.

I guess the lesson is: know who your supplier is and where the supplier received the product.

[ Reply to This ]



How much research is enough[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by partan on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:16:47 AM PDT

It's unbelievable to me that the problem has gotten this bad.  We not only have to research the software we purchase, but also the business we purchase it from and their supplier..."to infinity and beyond"?  This is a sad state of affairs.  I guess the only way to know that you have "genuine" anything is to buy it from the manufacturer, making retail stores and warehouses obsolete.  Maybe that's what Microsoft, and the like, are really up to?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Don't be silly[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 07:10:13 AM PDT

The reader tried to save a buck.  He got burned.  Lesson learned.  If a price is too good to be true, it probably is.

And no, this doesn't rule out buying it retail.  Many stores sell legit, SEALED copies of Windows XP, Windows Vista, etc.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Are you sure?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by partan on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 07:56:24 AM PDT

I've heard of issues with even sealed copies of software.  Activation has it's issues.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


"Genuine" Software[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:42:41 PM PDT

While I am not a fan of Microsoft's licensing policies, I am definitely against software pirates (and no, I don't want to start a debate on pricing lecels, etc!) If you are a volume licensing user, you know it - so if your software doesn't come with a certificate of authenticity it is stolen or mis-licensed. Next time, check for it! Without it you just paid $94 for a 50 cent CD, and someday Microsoft may wake up and invalidate your software.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Actually...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 05:24:48 AM PDT

...no matter what, if you pay for Windows you just paid big bucks for a 50 cent CD. That's its marginal cost of reproduction. Whether the rest of the money goes to M$ or goes to someone else it was pure profit.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


What is it with guys like you[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by straybeat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 06:15:02 PM PDT

It's Microsoft's piss-poor system. Why should I have to be a software engineer to determine if my Windows is legal? How would you feel if you took your car in for a tune-up and the mechanic said, "I'm sorry, your engine wasn't a genuine GM, it was built in somebody's backyard, so we pulled it out and disabled your car!" Would that be your fault because you're not a master mechanic and should have known that when you bought the car? How long would this lame argument last if auto companies operated like Microsoft has been allowed to?
General malcontent and non-conformist!
[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Happens All The Time[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 12:48:47 PM PDT

I can't tell you how often one of my clients tells me that they have found a copy of a program available from some store online for less than retail (the latest was a copy of Office 2007 Pro for $199.00). As a Microsoft reseller, I only sell legit copies for the correct price. In those situations, I try to educate them about illegal software. Unfortunately, sometimes the client will just see the low price and buy it against my advice. It's amazing how often those copies turn out to be bad at some time in the future. The moral of the story is that if the price is too good to be true, there is usually a good reason. Buyer beware!

[ Reply to This ]


You don't get what you pay for anymore[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:43:39 AM PDT

You have a company that has deliberately designed its product such that at whim it can declare any and all current copies of its software null and void, regardless of whether the user has actually, validly paid for it. In addition, the consumer has absolutely no recourse according to the EULA. Why would anyone pay for such a thing?

[ Reply to This ]


BS. The reader [ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 07:13:51 AM PDT

If the user bought a legit copy of the software, he wouldn't have problems with activation.  He went cheap -- he got what he paid for.

Buying software from some unknown "reseller" is akin to buying software from "that guy on the corner."  

Sadly, the cheapskate managed to get compensated for his stupidity.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Overpriced[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Enoemos on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:15:00 PM PDT

If Mickeysoft didn't severely overprice its buggy product, people wouldn't be trying so hard to find a copy at a reasonable price. Not everyone can afford to help some Mickeysoft executive buy another yacht :-(

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Since when...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 06:09:39 AM PDT

Since when is $94 a "reasonable price" for anything whose marginal cost of reproduction is approximately zero?

[ Reply to This ]


Need to also take into account cost of production[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 07:23:36 AM PDT

It's not just the cost of reproduction. I may have something that costs near zero to reproduce but cost $100Million to produce with only 100 potential users. The near-zero reproduction cost doesn't mean I should charge less than $1 Million to each of my users for a copy; at least not if I want to stay in business for any length of time.

Whether $94 is reasonable is a combination of many factors, not the least of which is one's definition of "reasonable"

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Can't afford it? Don't buy it[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 07:18:15 AM PDT

Tossing around a few economic terms doesn't make you Alan Greenspan.

Microsoft spent millions and millions of dollars to develop Windows XP.  They provide a free patching infrastructure in Windows Updates.  Those are significant up-front costs that Microsoft paid before selling a single copy of Windows XP.  

Your narrow view about reproduction costs highlights your naivety in economics.


[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Hey[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:07:50 AM PDT

I see no reason for you to be rude and insulting.

I'm quite sure that M$ has long since recovered the full cost of developing XP and every sale since then has been almost 100% pure profit. :P

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Silly points[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by joseten on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 09:03:45 AM PDT

Is there something about "what the market will bear" that you find unreasonable? If you think that Microsoft has an unreasonable business plan or is detrimental to the value of the company then don't buy the stock or if you already own then sell the stock. Saying that the price a company charges for its products is unreasonable, is silly. If you think that the patent and copyright laws under which it can charge those "unreasonable" prices are not in the best interests of the US, then call/write your congresscritters and tell them to change the law. Your arguments devolve to I don't like their pricing structure and the economics of IP, so they should not be allowed to run their busines the way they want to run it.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


What the market will bear?![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 08:54:10 AM PDT

"Is there something about "what the market will bear" that you find unreasonable?"

But M$ doesn't charge what the market will bear. A competitive market drives prices down to marginal costs; software prices therefore to zero. M$ has a monopoly, as has been proven in court, and this enables them to charge a premium.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



The real problem[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 07:38:38 PM PDT

The real problem is that he could not determine if it was real in a timely manner.  94$ could have been cheap but I have bought lots of technology products at deep discounts and they were real.

Microsoft should provide a mechanism to verify a copy at installation time.  Once it passes, they cannot go back for another bite at the apple.  This is not fair to consumers.


[ Reply to This ]



No, the real problem...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 05:27:36 AM PDT

...is the whole perception that some copies are somehow "real" and others aren't. If they all have the same software data on them, and it works (to the extent that anything by MS ever does, anyway), then it's real. The whole "genuine Windows" thing is an artifact of Microsoft's greed -- it's not like a "genuine Louis Vuitton purse" where the non-genuine article is a cheap knockoff that is poorly constructed and will typically fall apart within a few months. The only reason "non-genuine" Windows falls apart is because Microsoft pushes a destruct button! It would work perfectly if they didn't. All to protect the very fat profit margin they get from selling fifty-cent CDs for hundreds of dollars a pop. Quite the racket they've got going.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Two Spams deleted[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by sconeu on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 06:14:13 AM PDT

that were posted by Anonymous User

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States of America.
[ Reply to This ]



video converter software[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#44)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:54:21 AM PDT

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[ Reply to This ]


aderalahoo.com[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#52)
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[ Reply to This ]


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