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Unprotected From Antivirus Vendors' Autorenewals

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 01:02:31 AM PDT

Symantec has long had the biggest slice of the antivirus market, but one area in which McAfee has been the clear leader is in the number of customer gripes generated by its automatic subscription renewals. But I'm beginning to see signs that Symantec is closing even that gap.


McAfee's great innovation in this regard was the idea of burying its automatic renewal clause deep in the sneakwrap terms of its EULA. So for many years, readers have been upset to discover that McAfee keeps billing their credit cards even when they don't wish to re-subscribe. "This just happened to me," one reader wrote recently. "The credit card had expired, but McAfee just changed the date and debited my account anyway. They told me if I wanted to cancel I could just change the credit card information in the 'My Account' section online, but it won't let you take information off, it will only let you replace it with another credit card. Is this legal? Can they really change or update your card info? Doesn't this somehow violate your privacy rights? I feel like I have been raped or my home was broken into."

Officially, the policy for McAfee's evergreen renewal (which it now cynically calls "Always On Protection") is that customers have 60 days after the renewal to cancel and get their money back. But it rarely seems to work out quite that easily. "There's still an endless loop of bad links and no help," noted another reader recently. "McAfee has purposely designed their web site to thwart cancellations. I am outraged. Many 'help' links simply lead back to the homepage instead of the topics lists, and there appears to be no possible method for either cancellation of the auto renewal OR the refund for that auto renewal as promised in the auto renewal e-mail message. I will never, ever place another order, business or personal, for any product from this company."

McAfee also makes it difficult to cancel subscription autorenewal by constantly switching the phone number that customers are supposed to call. Another reader recently discovered her McAfee subscription had been automatically renewed and set about trying to cancel. "I immediately went to the given site to get the charge off my credit card, but they are 'performing maintenance.' Right! Tomorrow I am reporting them to the BBB and calling my credit card company."

I passed on to the reader the toll free that used to be listed in McAfee's EULA as the proper number to call to cancel the autorenewal. "Thank you so very much for your quick reply and help," she wrote back the next day. "Not only did I e-mail you last evening, but I also sat online with customer service for 15 minutes to have a live chat. Not one bit of help there. Then I e-mailed customer service. Sent 7 emails before one actually went through! I received your email today and called customer service. The number you gave me gets to customer service but lets me know to try again later. I called customer service with the number provided on the McAfee site, 1-408-992-8599, and waited 28 minutes for someone to get to me. They kindly helped me and removed me from the automatic renewal list. They also will be crediting my charge card in seven to ten business days, even though it only takes them 15 seconds to charge it."

I guess it was inevitable that Symantec would grow envious of McAfee's "Always On Protection" of its revenue stream, and just as inevitable I would start to get complaints about the Symantec's autorenewal. "I got a notice from Symantec that my subscription to their anti-virus/web security product was automatically renewed last night and they charged my credit card. I am sure that somewhere in the maze of their renewal a year ago there was some 'click through' approval of this that I missed. But I would have appreciated some advance notification that allowed me to opt out. The confirmation e-mail told me to go to customer service to get a refund. Hah! Try finding a phone number there! I've sent an email request and we'll see how long it takes to get a response. There aughtta be a law!"

That reader found it relatively easy to get Symantec to agree to refund his money -- obviously, Symantec still has more work to do if it wants to match the daunting complexity of McAfee's system -- but in the process he also discovered that he had two Norton versions on his computer that were set to autorenew as well. "Even though I had stopped using Symantec products well over a year ago, it seems like every Norton product I ever had was going to keep charging me. In addition, my credit card is still registered to my Symantec account and I cannot remove it on my own. Another request to Symantec is required for each of these. Defaulting auto-renewals should be illegal. Reminding consumers prior to the charge being made should be a common courtesy. Symantec is now on my 'do not buy / do not recommend' list."

The argument made by antivirus companies for autorenewal is of course that it's for the customer's protection that one's subscription not inadvertently lapse. It's no different, they say, than your ISP or your cable company automatically charging your card every month. "That's a bogus argument," wrote a reader who, having fled McAfee years before in part because of its autorenewal practices, was very disturbed to find Symantec adopting the same approach. "Legitimate automatic renewals are opt in - you explictily agree to set up the money to be automatically deducted each month. These companies are making you opt out, and they're hiding what they're doing in the fine print in the hopes you don't notice the charges. They should be required to have my explicit permission to set up my account for automatic renewal rather than sneaking it past me in a EULA."

Who do you think the antivirus vendors' autorenewal policies are protecting? Post your comments below or write me at Foster@gripe2ed.com.

< Extended Debate Over Extended Warranties | Putting EULAs in a New Light >


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Unprotected From Antivirus Vendors' Autorenewals | 60 comments (60 topical) | Post A Comment
Antivirus stinks[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 08:08:57 AM PDT

Antivirus software today is pretty bad anyway. It only protects against yesterday's malware, slows your PC to a crawl while it scans every file as it's accessed, and hogs a rather large bit of your memory and CPU. As fast as today's malware spreads, your users (the ones that like to click on every attachment despite all of the warnings they've been given) have a pretty good chance of getting infected even if you have fully up-to-date antivirus software. On top of that, once infected, very few of these programs are capable of removing the infections (once they actually have signatures), despite their claims to the contrary.

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Not always true...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:36:44 AM PDT

I'd agree with you when it comes to the companies ranked tops in sales (McAfee and Symantec); it's ironic that they have the highest sales, and yet the poorest performance. Symantec hasn't had a good home AV product since around 2004, and it's been longer for McAfee.

However, there are good antivirus solutions out there, they are just lesser known. Some, like Avast! Antivirus and AVG are actually free, but there are even better options such as eSet NOD32, F-Secure, Sophos, etc. that have much lower resource usage, and excellent detection rates. The key is to actually shop around. Most consumers just buy the product that has the most boxes on the shelf, or what the salesperson tells them to, without doing any homework on their own.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by maderikapapa on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:16:05 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


video converter software[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#60)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 06, 2008 at 01:04:27 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#42)
by maderikapapa on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:08:30 AM PDT

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
by maderikapapa on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:56:37 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#48)
by maderikapapa on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:52:52 PM PDT

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#52)
by maderikapapa on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 08:19:24 AM PDT

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#54)
by maderikapapa on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:03:15 AM PDT

逆援北海道 不倫青森 不倫岩手 不倫宮城 不倫秋田 不倫山形 不倫福島 不倫東京 不倫群馬 不倫埼玉 不倫千葉 不倫茨木 不倫神奈川 不倫栃木 不倫山梨 不倫長野 不倫新潟 不倫岐阜 不倫静岡 不倫愛知 不倫三重 不倫富山 不倫石川 不倫福井 不倫滋賀 不倫京都 不倫大阪 不倫兵庫 不倫奈良 不倫和歌山 不倫鳥取 不倫島根 不倫岡山 不倫広島 不倫山口 不倫徳島 不倫香川 不倫愛媛 不倫高知 不倫福岡 不倫佐賀 不倫長崎 不倫熊本 不倫大分 不倫鹿児島 不倫宮崎 不倫沖縄 不倫

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#56)
by Anonymous User on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:53:09 PM PDT

セレブ 北海道セレブ 青森セレブ 岩手セレブ 宮城セレブ 秋田セレブ 山形セレブ 福島セレブ 東京セレブ 群馬セレブ 埼玉セレブ 千葉セレブ 茨木セレブ 神奈川セレブ 栃木セレブ 山梨セレブ 長野セレブ 新潟セレブ 岐阜セレブ 静岡セレブ 愛知セレブ 三重セレブ 富山セレブ 石川セレブ 福井セレブ 滋賀セレブ 京都セレブ 大阪セレブ 兵庫セレブ 奈良セレブ 和歌山セレブ 鳥取セレブ 島根セレブ 岡山セレブ 広島セレブ 山口セレブ 徳島セレブ 香川セレブ 愛媛セレブ 高知セレブ 福岡セレブ 佐賀セレブ 長崎セレブ 熊本セレブ 大分セレブ 鹿児島セレブ 宮崎セレブ 沖縄アダルト出会い

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#58)
by Anonymous User on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:53:36 AM PDT

北海道 セフレ青森 セフレ岩手 セフレ宮城 セフレ秋田 セフレ山形 セフレ福島 セフレ東京 セフレ群馬 セフレ埼玉 セフレ千葉 セフレ茨木 セフレ神奈川 セフレ栃木 セフレ山梨 セフレ長野 セフレ新潟 セフレ岐阜 セフレ静岡 セフレ愛知 セフレ三重 セフレ富山 セフレ石川 セフレ福井 セフレ滋賀 セフレ京都 セフレ大阪 セフレ兵庫 セフレ奈良 セフレ和歌山 セフレ鳥取 セフレ島根 セフレ岡山 セフレ広島 セフレ山口 セフレ徳島 セフレ香川 セフレ愛媛 セフレ高知 セフレ福岡 セフレ佐賀 セフレ長崎 セフレ熊本 セフレ大分 セフレ鹿児島 セフレ宮崎 セフレ沖縄 セフレ

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Even Amazon does it[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 08:18:51 AM PDT

Amazon.com has auto-renewal on their Prime membership (gets you reduced shipping costs). The first time, it auto-renewed it used a TEST server and had no transaction details on the credit card transaction. Two or three emails later, I did get AMAZON.COM to own up it was their charge & what it was for. They didn't really seem to understand why I thought it was a bogus charge. An amount, no details as to what the charge was for and from a AMAZON TEST SERVER (as the business name). They quickly refunded my money but as far as I know, have not fixed the details that occur on the transactions nor do they send reminders that your membership is about up.

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No way to avoid Symantec renewal notices[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by AnonymousUser on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:36:15 AM PDT

My Norton Antivirus 2008 subscription expires in 16 days. I have been reminded of this every day for the past two weeks. Each time I'm given a choice to "resubscribe now" or "remind me later", "later" being defined as the next day.

I highly doubt anyone owning a Symantec product could inadvertently miss these constant nagging reminders.

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You didn't mention...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 01:33:25 PM PDT

..whether they have your credit details or not. If not, then you are just a potential new customer and so is just a straw man not relevant to the post about recurring payments! That's a lot of nagging from them though.

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Reminders?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 06:49:31 PM PDT

No, it'd be pretty easy to miss that nagging.

Emails like that, the exact same one every day, and nearly identical ones going out to others, are just the kind of thing that a SPAM filter will trap. So many people would never see them at all.

Possibly it's accidental that Symantec sends their opt-out reminders as look-alikes to SPAM. But given all the stories about making it difficult to non-renew, it might not be an accident. (Symantec sells SPAM filters, don't they? Shouldn't they know how to design email reminders that do not look like SPAM?)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Not e-mail[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:03:40 PM PDT

Symantec doesn't send reminders via e-mail. The program pops up a reminder window on your computer, so you get the nag screen even when you can't get on the Internet.

However, I've never seen the nag screens declare that the company owns your credit card and will use it as soon as possible -- mainly, I'm sure, because I've never ordered a subscription on-line; the company has never seen my credit information. Besides, if they had your card information and were prepared to use it, why would they nag you to resubscribe?

The NAV 2008 user above to whom you replied evidently has a store-bought copy of the program and hasn't been put into the evergreen circuit -- not yet, anyway. Sixteen digits and a date could take care of all those nag screens for life...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Never underestimate stupid[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 07:58:21 AM PDT

Hello. I would normally agree with you but I recently lost a good customer. Last year, I installed Symantec Internet Security for small networks at my dentist's office. We have had a great barter deal worked out for years but I was out of town at a time when they called and so they went to another computer vendor in town who is far less scrupulous than I. My dentist was told how awful the Symantec product was and as a result, this "tech" yanked the Symantec software from every machine in the office and replaced it with AVG and Spybot (freebies). Upon investigation, the main office girl WAS getting messages, as you put it, every day warning her that the expiration date was approaching. She managed to ignore it as after all, it WAS badgering her EVERY day. The sheer number of times that message showed up led to this person ignoring the warnings. Sure enough, the protection ran out and within a short amount of time, the network was infested with malware. So, I lost a great customer, was not given the opportunity to fix the issue and my rep took a hit as this nasty competitor has been running their mouth about what a dis-service I did for the customer by installing the Symantec product in the first place. Granted, this is ignorance in action but the bottom line is the same. It really IS possible for people to ignore all those warnings! Doctor Smith

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Opt -out ability in reminders?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 02:01:31 PM PDT

Did your reminders include a "Do not re-subscribe at this time" button? That is the entire issue here - understand?

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AutoRenewals -- and Yahoo Mail Plus[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by RC Primak on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 03:36:18 PM PDT

Anti-virus companies aren't the only ones who do the auto-renewal scam. I just upgraded my Yahoo e-mail account to Mail Plus for POP-3 access. Reading their EULA, I find not only they auto-renew, but it is their policy to follow the subscriber from one credit card to another, even from one bank to another! Talk about a violation of privacy!! I'm keeping the account, but if there's any trouble when/if I ever want to switch to Google g-mail or some such thing, we shall see how difficult it will be to get out of Yahoo's Auto-Renewals. I also subscribe to Symantec's Norton 360 and SystemWorks (expired) 2006 and 2007 Premier Editions. But I bought the three products as Retail Boxed versions. Only the stores where I actually bought and paid for these products ever got my credit card information. I not only never had to sign up for Auto-Renewal, but I've never been billed for a renewal. There are Anti-virus companies out there who do not engage in this kind of nonsense. Prevx (not technically anti-virus) and AVG (Grisoft) are not doing Auto-Renewals, and I paid for both products on line. Zone Alarm also does not do the Auto-renew thing. These three products (Prevx 2.0, AVG Anti-Malware Paid Version, and Zone Alarm Free Firewall) are doing a fine job of protecting my computer now, even at public hotspots. By the way, neither Prevx nor Grisoft is an American company. Both companies are subject to European Union consumer protection rules, so Auto-renewal would place either company in violation of European laws. Why can't we Americans have such consumer protections against EULAs and Auto-Renewals??

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Why?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 05:46:23 AM PDT

Why can't we Americans have such consumer protections against EULAs and Auto-Renewals??
Because we live in the land of the corporate free ride and the home of the brave lobbyist.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Sorry, but the blame is in the wrong place...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 08:15:02 AM PDT

It's because too many of us are too willing to put up with it. People didn't stop buying Windows after activation was introduced. The whole root kit fiasco didn't do much to hurt Sony. People still buy Quickbooks even though they sunset certain features just to make you upgrade.

We get treated by garbage by these companies because we allow it. Collectively, we don't care. We are too lazy to find alternatives or we just want what we want so badly that we'll put up with almost anything to get it. Until people start getting fed up in very large numbers and begin keeping their credit cards in their wallets this will not change.

Remember, you don't have to buy from these companies. The readers here know who the usual suspects are (Symantec, Intuit, Microsoft), yet they still write in to complain about getting the shaft when they obviously know better.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Credit Cart[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by KSalstrom on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 09:20:30 AM PDT

I use American Express whenever I can because when there I have had a problem they backed me, not the company causing the problem. "At least one state, New York, has a specific rule with respect to evergreen maintenance contracts," wrote Robert Schrager, business attorney ..." http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/01/03/030106opgripe_1.html

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Just say no...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:11:27 AM PDT

Don't use any of them. Use this: http://free.grisoft.com/ AVG is what I use on all my computers (8 now and counting) and I have never had a problem with any of them in regards to viruii or attacks.

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Dispute the charges[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 11:57:10 AM PDT

If everyone who is auto-renewed disputes the charges with their cc company, the vendors will stop doing it. The problem is people try to fight it with the vendors, and most give up pretty quickly.

[ Reply to This ]


How to fight back for auto-renewals[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by ayazici on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 12:10:33 PM PDT

My first experience with autorenewals was an offer from bizrate.com. I think they are a good service provider to summarize the consumer experiences for te on-line merchants. Once, they offered me 1-year subscriptions to up to 4 magazines for $2.00 each. You can guess what happened. The following year, I was charged the full subscription price for each one of them. It took months between the magazines and the company that processes the subscriptions to cancel them. A while later, after another purchase through bizrate, I was offered the same deal. I immediately went to my Visa site (MBNA then, Bank of America now), created a one-use Visa number with $8.00 limit and subscribed to four magazines. The following year, they had no number to charge and I DID NOT RENEW MY SUBSCRIPTIONS. Perhaps, what I did was not that honorable, but once I did get even. Now, for any on-line purchase, I use these temporary credit card numbers that expire within a few months and carry a specific limit. If your bank does not offer it, demand it. They are also great for numbers that can be stolen from merchants' sites.

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One use credit cards[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by BigManTate on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 12:43:25 PM PDT

You have to read the fine print carefully. Some of those companies expressly forbid the one use cards just for that reason.

Allen Tate
www.AllenTateComputing.com
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One Time Cards[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 12:54:13 PM PDT

Who cares if the companies don't want you to use a one time card. It isn't up to them whether you do or don't that is a desicion that you get to make.

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One-time user credit cards[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 09:43:03 AM PDT

That was going to be my suggestion, too. Sounds like if the company has this restriction, it's an automatic red flag that we need to avoid them. Just wondering -- is the warning about one-time credit cards buried next to the warning about recurring charges?

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Autorenewal of Anti-Virus Software[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 01:05:05 PM PDT

My experience with Symantec was with my 1 year subscription ending after 6 months and then again after 9 months. I call Symantec about the first error and never received a response. Miraculaously, later that day, the subsription was OK. The second time it happened, I reformatted my PC (since you really can't unistall Symantec completely) and just use what my ISP provides free. It's still a Symantec product, but as long as I pay mu ISP, I don't have to deal with Symatec directly.

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Symantec Removal -- Yes you can![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by RC Primak on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:26:50 PM PDT

I have four times successfully completely removed Symantec products from my computer. Go to the Symantec Support Site, Search for Removal Tools, and download and run the Symatec Removal Tool(s) for your specific product(s). Follow up with a good System Cleanup (CCleaner or Acronis) and delete all folders and services related to Symantec or Norton or CCApp, etc. Some services must be stopped before their parent folders can be removed. A royal pain, but I've never failed.

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Workaround[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 01:32:15 PM PDT

The only way to avoid the automatic renewal is to buy a new boxed product each year at the store. That's how you have to do it if you want to use McAfee.

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Buy the Box[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by RC Primak on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:31:08 PM PDT

I already posted this advice.

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Autorenewals[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 02:10:09 PM PDT

This is easy to avoid for personal use purchases. Check the Sunday newspaper advertising flyers of Best Buy, Staples, etc., and find one of the frequent special offers for free or very low cost (after rebates) Symantec, MacAfee, or many other products. They may require prior ownership proof for the maximum rebate, but competitive products are typically OK. This beats paying full list price online, and they never have your credit card number.

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Bargains with Rebates[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by RC Primak on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:34:32 PM PDT

Yeah, that's the way to do it. Staples honored a misprint and I got Norton 360 for (net) $9.99. Not worth it though -- it promptly stopped Firefox from downloading Add-ons, and you know the Symantec Tech Support drill... Finally removed the piece of crap and post in my Yahoo 360 blog about the experience. Automatic protection is great -- until you need to modify a Rule!

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How to Defeat Auto-renewals on EVERYTHING[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 02:41:53 PM PDT

I learned many years ago on defeating auto-renewals from any service on purchases or leases. I use one credit card, low limit, and use a free PDF program to capture emails and opt-out's and everything else when I set about to cancel a service. Send the email, capture the cancellation from either the web page (if available) and ensure that it is capture in a PDF with the date embedded in it. When the charge appears when it shouldn't, call the credit card company, cancel the card, and state that you cancelled the service with the notice required within your state (they all have it - and don't be taken that you have to abide by a certain state's arbitration agreements - consumer law prevails). Ensure that you can provide copies of date embedded PDF files (they work in California as legal proof). Also, another trick is to cancel the card and get a new one twice a year. As long as you charge something, the Credit Card companies could care less. When McAfee or Symantec or any of the others say that your card was declined or was cancelled, and that you have to renew, sending them the cancellation notice to their legal departments and investor relations area, always listed for public companies, and let them know you are going to take it to court and ensure that they know you are not the only one it has happened to. They usually stop immediately, and if it happens to slip through the cracks, a follow-up email to investor relations with a cc note at the bottom to a newspaper, and the State Attorney's office with statements about business practices and fraudulent actions always works. These simple routines have worked for many a client of mine and they have zero issues using only one card for these type of purchases and having another card for the rest of their normal activities. Bill

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Auto Renew[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 04:25:50 PM PDT

There are plenty of lawyers out there looking for an easy win class action case. Normally, there is no cost to the plaintiff, and first one in normally gets a goodly amount of cash. Everyone else gets a worthless coupon or discount off a future product no one wants. So get out the yellow pages and get your retirement program funded by one of the auto renew outfits.

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renewal, single-use card[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by aoz on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 04:50:33 PM PDT

as the one replier above stated, use single-use virtual card numbers (I use citibank's mastercard virtual numbers), with dollar and date limit. and, if they auto-renew, file a credit card chargeback. and, to the user above, re" the magazines, you did NOt do some thing dishonorable. You were offered a discount rate, and you took advantage of that. You did NOt agree to subscribe to another year at a higher rate, and the seller does NOT have the right to backhandedly sell you a new renewal. nick

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What A Stupid Comment![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:13:14 AM PDT

The complainer wrote: "I feel like I have been raped or my home was broken into." Having been sexually abused and having had my house broken into twice, I a definitively and categorically stated that being over charged for an unwanted product is not like being raped or even the lesser feeling of having one's house broken into. The complainer should be ashamed for using such horriffic language And, "yes", this is pertinent. If we continue to use such horriffic language we will eventually equate a stubbed toe with murder.

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Yawn[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:17:11 AM PDT

If the user feels that violated, they have that right. Sorry if these horrible things have happened to you, but don't attack the poster over them.

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The Long and The Short of It[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by madsailor on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:25:55 AM PDT

When faced with new computers for my customers with the 90 trial McAfee and Symantec protection, the first thing I do is delete it all, install a purchased copy of AVG.

The reason is two-fold:

  1. Because McAfee and Symantec have such a large portion of the AV market, it is more profitable to write malware specifically to attack them - often AVG and other low cost/low overhead products catch them before the other two.
  2. McAfee and Symantec products hog system resources to the extent that they can bring a new machine to its knees, often no faster than the machine it's replacing!
I haven't recommended either product for many, many years because of their expense, poor performance, and absolutely useless support.

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What-do-you-expect?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 10:01:30 AM PDT

It's no surprise at all that these companies fool you into signing up for auto renewal and then make it difficult to cancel it. Their products are garbage and it only follows that their business practices are also a rip-off. You could not pay me to install a product from McAfee or Symantec on my PC. Marketing works wonders fooling ignorant people that keep these rip-off companies in business.

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One Way to Stop It[ Re