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Has Dell Returned to its Roots?

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 12:09:58 AM PDT

I'm a bit reluctant to raise this topic, but it's gotten to the point where I think I should. In reading reader gripes in recent months, I can't escape the conclusion that there's now a significant difference between Dell and HP when it comes to PC support. The old Dell appears to be back in terms of once again providing good support for good products, but, sadly, the old HP still seems to be ancient history.


One reason for my hesitation is that the Gripe Line has always been a very blunt instrument even when it comes to making negative comparisons between companies, much less positive ones. There's a certain noise level to be expected with any major vendor, and it's not always clear where spikes that go beyond the expected are coming from. Still, the differences between Dell and HP specifically have become overwhelming of late.

The big change readers have seen is that Dell is responding much more quickly and efficiently to problems. "Dell seems to have turned over a new leaf," wrote one reader recently. "I had a laptop battery that started going bad shortly before its warranty ran out, but I did not call it in until two weeks after the warranty expired. Tech support had me drain it and charge it and try again and it was still bad, and they said they could not help me because the warranty had expired. They told me to try Customer Care. I was prepared for a battle, but the Customer Care person listened to my story, put me on hold, and then came back and said Dell would replace my battery! Sure enough, the new battery showed up a couple of days later and it works great. I'm glad Dell has responded to the criticism of its customer service -- thought you'd like to know."

I've also heard more positive things about Dell than HP from corporate customers and those who have service contracts. "I've had three significant hardware problems with Dell equipment this year and all were fully satisfied with speedy on-site installation of replacement parts and only a modicum of over-the-phone troubleshooting and jumping through hoops after it was established that I knew what I was talking about and had done troubleshooting on my own. Tech support people were responsive and understandable; tech repair guys were efficient and professional. I have paid extra for Gold Tech Support and buy through Dell's small business division -- so maybe my experience is different than standard service/consumer operations -- or I am just lucky."

Of course, I'm still getting some gripes about Dell, but in a way they may actually prove the point as much as the kudos for the company. "I called Dell out on sending me a lemon of a laptop," another reader recently wrote. "The motherboard has been replaced three times - once it came back missing screws and the screen would separate from the keyboard." But shortly after I heard from the reader, he followed up by saying Dell had gone ahead and upgraded him to a better model. "I gotta tell you they followed through. My old computer was an Inspiron 8600, and they replaced it with an Inspiron E1505 and upgraded the hard drive, memory, process, screen, etc. I was impressed ... at least until I had the computer, when it turned off on its own and would not turn back on. So another hour and a half of tech support and pulling out components that apparently weren't installed correctly. But for now it's working."

Certainly not a fun experience for the reader, but it's the end results that count when dealing with a PC lemon. And, in sharp contrast to the support nightmare experiences readers have suffered with HP, lately I don't have to bring these cases to Dell's attention before they're fixed. Both Dell and HP have been good through the years about responding to my stories -- the difference now is that Dell has almost invariably dealt with the serious problems before they hear about it from me.

This is the exact opposite of the way things stood three or four years ago when Dell made its disastrous move to offshore all its support. By the way, I'm sure it wasn't a disaster just because they offshored, but because they offshored badly and wound up with a staff of frontline techs who had neither the technical or language skills to help the customers.

Back then HP's support still had a lofty reputation, one that it's since done its best to fritter away. But there's been a reversal in another sense. What should we make of the fact that Dell is making these strides in improving quality at the same time that all the marketshare numbers have been saying that HP is eating Dell's lunch? To put it in a good light for Dell, we could say that the best way to improve the quality of your support is to improve the quality of your products, and that takes both investment and time for the market to recognize what you've done. On the other hand, it's easier to support products when you're selling fewer of them, so maybe that's what is making Dell's support look good right now.

I think we're just going to have to wait to see whether the differences between Dell and HP -- either in terms of support quality or marketshare -- are temporary blips or not. And at the same time, perhaps we'll find out whether offering better support is still a viable business for PC manufacturers.

Which PC manufacturer do you think provides the best support? Dell, HP, or someone else? Answer my GripeLog poll on that question in the lefthand column here and tell us why you feel that way by posting your comments online or writing me at Foster@gripe2ed.com.

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Has Dell Returned to its Roots? | 56 comments (56 topical) | Post A Comment
Dell's Headed in a Good Direction[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 06:57:39 AM PDT

I've been satisfied with my recent warranty service from Dell. While I'd prefer a flawless product, they've been quick to answer the phone, diagnose a problem, and send parts.

[ Reply to This ]


DELL[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 07:24:59 AM PDT

I hope DEll hs improved. I have had the gteatest of Lemons. For the last one I received DELL didn't have support disks. Somehow they copid of someone's programs. My new replacement has just bombed out.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Dell's support is better.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 07:08:11 AM PDT

I am a customer of both companies, I have a Dell Axim and an HP Compaq notebook. Both of my products broke, I had a screen porblem with my notebook aswell as the pin that secures the PCMCIA card(the add on cards for notebooks) did not stay in and my Dell Axim PDA just froze after a hard reset was made. My expierience with HP was that I called I took in my computer to their repair shop which was UPS the carrier and took a month for me to have my system back with a screen and systemboard replaced, when we were checking if the system was OK, when we turned it on it said HP instead of compaq, the guy said they would change it right away I didn't care about it but they mentioned it would void my warranty if not fixed, I had to wait for another hour for thi BIOS setting to be fixed. On the other hand with Dell they sent a replacement the next day and everything was fixed. I did troubleshooting with both but if you get a failure Dell will respond much better.

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Dell Axim (Hp/Compaq)[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by wilsondell on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 03:30:34 AM PDT

I understand how this might look to a customer as far as service goes. With the Dell Axim, it would be easy to replace. Axim's are sent in whole units (unlike pc's) and a referbished was out the door fast. With your PC, i would have recommended an at home service contract, instead of return to depot.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


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PC Manufacturers[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 08:56:27 AM PDT

None of the manufacturers listed hold up to the standard that Toshiba is setting for its laptops. We have purchased several Techra models over the past several years, including both tablet and laptop. The units have been universally both well made and well designed. In addition, their sales operation is excellent with people who are knowledgeable and really try to be helpful. Although we have not needed any significant support due to the quality of the products, what contacts we have had have been equally knowledgeable and helpful. We gave up on the Dells, after having purchased quite a number over a several year period, due to quality and service issues. We have never been sorry of the move to Toshiba, but do wish that they made desktop units also.

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Toshiba is not-too-good either[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by bsa492 on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 11:02:08 AM PDT

I will admit that my experience with Toshiba is a little older than the experiences Ed refers to in his article, but it is from the past two years.  My son went off to college and purchased a Toshiba laptop through Best Buy.  It was not real expensive, but not at the bottom of the price range either.  It cost roughly $900.  There have been several problems with this system and the service received.

First of all, it overheated frequently and shut down.  He finally purchased an auxilary fan unit to set the laptop on to keep the air moving as much as possible.  Second, the three USB 2.0 ports were very flimsy, so that the cable or thumbdrive would fall out of them.  Third, the optical drive failed only 3 months into the usage of this system.  He tried to have it serviced by Toshiba through the Best Buy service department, but all they did for hardware problems was to reload the drivers, which didn't do anything for the overheading, the USB hanging on to the attached device, or the optical drive reading a commercial CD.  He tried going directly to Toshiba, who denied that he purchased the machine and had a warranty.  He eventually found a local electronics repair facility that was able to replace a defective system board and collect the warranty repair costs from Toshiba and the unit works satisfactorily now, but that does not mean he would purchase another Toshiba.  To him, Toshiba equals very poor quality and nearly non-existent service and he doesn't need an expensive paperweight in his college housing.  Next machine: probably Dell.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Toshiba Laptops - no problems[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#52)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 07:49:43 AM PDT

I've followed the gripe line for years. I've only had Toshiba laptops first from employers and then personally. The troubles I've had with Toshiba's have been self inflicted. The one issue was resolved under warranty same day - I brought the unit to a local warranty shop. Love Toshiba's and wouldn't buy an HP or Dell because of the persistent stories about support problems.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Dell Incompetence[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 09:00:33 AM PDT

My best friend just bought a Dell desktop. He ordered it with a 256MB video card. He got a 128MB. They send a replacement card. It was also a 128MB. Then they sent a tech out. He ordered a replacement card, twice and both times they sent cards that would not work.

I will have to say, Dell really tried. But they just were too inept to satisfy my friend so he is sending it back and will never buy from them again.

Meanwhile, I just changed out a power supply in a Dell last night. Dell had put a 170W PS in a Pentium 4 box. This was way underpowered for a Pentium 4. No wonder it failed.

Despite the fact that they may really be trying harder, I feel like they have some fundamental problems that aren't going to be solved by better CS.

[ Reply to This ]



Problems?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by wilsondell on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 03:33:27 AM PDT

What are these fundemental problems?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Eh?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 06:58:46 AM PDT

Shoddy workmanship, evidently.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fvdc[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#61)
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The New HP is layers deep in doo doo[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 09:11:57 AM PDT

I had written off HP's gear due to crummy service logistics many years ago, but recently pricing enticed me to purchase a 'consumer' HP desktop system. My bad. Following a few days of ownership, I ran HP's diags in response to program and memory errors in Vista. Diags failed on memory tests, so I used HP's online Support Chat service to relay the problem. After 1.5 hours trying to enter information and to find my serial number in their 'system', the rep stated it would be covered under HP's Bench Service warranty (receive a shipping box, send the unit in, HP's cost, and it would be returned repaired that way as well), but that I needed to submit my Proof of Purchase (POP) info to the HP POP team. I did so immediately. The HP POP division was experiencing 'technical difficulties', which would be 'fixed shortly'. Already long story shorter, that support issue submission was made by me 10 days and even more emails ago. It wasn't until I requested information on how to return the PC to HP for full refund via email that the POP team released my warranty repair request. I have yet to receive the box for shipping the computer to HP, but am only hoping that there are no more roadblocks. At least I didn't have any data on the computer yet. Perhaps HP biz customers rate higher on the problem resolution scale, but that is no comfort to me. Or my daughter, who is waiting for her new computer. I tried to keep an open mind regarding HP's quality and service reputation, but sticking my toe back into that pool appears to have coated it with something other than warm water... Lesson learned...

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Dell and bad support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by cemkaner on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 09:14:21 AM PDT

When Dell bought Alienware, I expected to hear fewer horror stories about really, really bad Alienware support. But they still keep coming. You can see a stream of comments on my site, http://www.badsoftware.com/alienwaresucks/ and plenty elsewhere. Until Dell cleans up the support disaster of its subsidiary, I just can't trust transient trends in its other brands.

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Dell is getting better[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 09:17:51 AM PDT

I just bought a new laptop from Dell. $499.- and free shipping. They sent me the 17" instead of the 15" I'd ordered, and it's been working great. So great in fact that when a needed a server at home, I ended up with a small Dell server for $399.- again with free shipping. I couldn't build a server that cheap. And I got a year warranty. At work we're a 100% Dell shop with Gold Support on everything, and they've always been very good about replacement parts and getting techs on site.

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Dell[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 09:19:59 AM PDT

I have been using Dell PC's over the past 5 years. Have ordered around 50 in that time frame. Have always had good response to service request in both gold and standard support. Gold was a little quicker to offer the replacement part, but both were responsive to my problem. Would not hesitate to recommend Dell products.

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Tired of both[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 09:35:53 AM PDT

Over the years I've bought and used many Dells and HPs. Compaq was much better before the HP days, even when it was using proprietary hardware. I've had some good experiences, some bad, but the horror stories I've been hearing about Dell and HP from associates and a failure in one of my top of the line Dells pushed me away.

I'm currently giving Apple a try and liking it so far.

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From Dell to HP and Back to Dell[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 09:42:22 AM PDT

When I started managing our IT group (about 10 years ago)I went with Dell for our desktops and laptops. If it broke Dell fixed it - fast. No one hour phone calls. Then came the dark ages and it was suggested that I try HP. Bought about 100 Vectra VL series systems. Though not their fault about 90% of the IBM drives in the units failed over the warranty life of the systems. We also lost a couple of motherboards and power supplies. I never worried because 1 short phone call to HP (I really mean 1 short call) and a new drive, motherboard, power supply was in our hands within a day. It went so smoothly my secretary was making the calls to HP. But good things never last. When our tape library broke it was a nightmare to get fixed, a laptop that died had to be sent back twice, our Compaq server next day response usually turned into 3-4 days. Phone hold times moved to close to an hour and the first thing we were asked when we did get a tech was what credit card this call would be billed to. It was sad. Luckily Dell was starting their rebound and when it came time to replace our Vectras we went with Dell Optiplexes and a couple of Precisions. Nice machines - easy to service. Good sale support and good tech support - especially the Gold guys. They get right to the problem and don't spend too much time on the scripted walk-thru. We've had a couple of problems but Dell has tried hard (we still had to deal with incorrect replacement parts shipped to us) but their on-site techs stay with and make sure the job is done right.

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HP service - good experience[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 10:53:36 AM PDT

I recently needed service on my hp/compaq notebook for which I purchased an extended warranty (which, by the way hp permits purchase even after the original warranty expires). I explained the problem, they shipped out a shipping box which took 4 days to receive; I shipped the computer back to them and 2 days later I had it back repaired. While my anecdotal experience is diametrically different then vast numbers of others, this was about the 3rd time I needed service in 4 years and the results were roughly the same.

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Toshiba and HP Tech Support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 11:03:04 AM PDT

I have had great luck with HP on the return of a laptop with a malfunctioning wireless circuit. They sent me a box to ship the old one back and then a fixed one arrived about 7 days later. No money out of my pocket and it worked.

Toshiba parts support has been good. As long as you have a bit of techi in you.  I wanted the rails and mounting brackets for the second sata hard disk in my laptop and they talked me thru the description and after the plastic was given, they sent them out the next day.  good service.

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Dell vs HP[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 11:30:04 AM PDT

Perhaps my view is colored by the fact that I avoid the consumer lines and that I have a vendor from whom I buy I buy computer equipment.

Firstly, the fact that you CAN get HP parts and service through outside vendors does come in handy. I had a case of someone whose server died. We figured out what part was probably at fault and called Dell to order. Now, this is a part that is only used for servers, which you would have thought would be better supported.

First problem was that although I was able to find the part on the website, the number on the site is not the one to call for "spare parts". The tech on the phone "very graciously" did me a favor and gave me the correct number then actually transferred me, rather than making me call back as he claimed he was supposed to.

Next problem was that even though the part was in stock, they would nit guarantee to ship in less than 4 days. And, in fact, as of three days later, when the order was canceled, the part had not shipped yet. With my HP vendor, I would have had parts the next day. That person will never order another Dell, and she'll make her displeasure known.

On another occasion, we ordered a server. We went with Dell - and they lost a customer. first the order was delayed several times. Then they simply CANCELED the order, with no explanation and no notice. It took way too much time to straighten that out.

This may be the reason why Cell is still having poor financial numbers - recent reports indicate that Dell has pulled something similar on people who ordered one of their new laptops. The delays are bad enough, but the lack of notice, and the cancellations that have happened to many people indicate a problem with their ability to handle orders properly. One thing is for sure. The tech who pushed for the Dell server isn't pushing Dell servers anymore.

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HP Pavilion - 55 days till death[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by S2 on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 11:35:12 AM PDT

What a timely column. I just checked the HP web site and 24 hours after receiving my dv9000z they updated the information to acknowledge that they did receive it. 55 days after I purchased this machine it decided to no longer boot, it would not POST and produced a beep code (1 long, 2 short), which turns out to be video card related. I found out about the beep code from a reply to a post on the dv1000forums.com web site, an unofficial web site for HP notebooks. The link provided on the forum was to www.bioscentral.com/beepcodes/compaqbeep.htm and good resource when you need it. I believe my failure is heat related; I was able to get the machine to boot when it was cold, but once warmed up it would not POST. I have a Sony Vaio (GRX series) that are notorious for desoldering one of the memory sockets due to overheating, which mine did. Many of the posts I've read on various forums allude to heating problems across several manufactures and models. In general it would seem that there is not enough engineering and design put into removing heat from notebooks, that the thermal designs are made for slower CPUs & GPUs but when a given model has the faster CPU & GPU for the model the heat problems become very apparent.

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Dell pre-sales still needs work...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Victor Warner on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 12:54:00 PM PDT

Dell may have improved their support but their pre-sales operation still needs a lot of work, especially if you make an internet order that goes wrong.

I recently placed an internet order for a Dell machine and received nothing more than an acknoweldgement, but heard nothing more for several days. My chasing emails were ignored.

Eventually I did manage to get a response which indicated that my order had got lost in their computer system and I would have to place the order again. But what no-one I subsequently corresponded with or talked to at Dell told me is that my with my original order Dell had sought authorisation from my credit card company for the amount of the order. This authorisation stays in place until the order is complete or Dell (or whoever) removes it. It is possible for this authorisation to stay in place for ever.

When I spoke to a DELL representative (speaking from a foreign call centre) he indicated he could re-order the computer within a few minutes (but stretched out the call to more than 30 minutes, most of the time which he spent on trying to sell me support services, which I did not wantd), only the end of which he told me my credit card was declined, but was unable to tell me why.

It took over 5 working days to remove this authorisation (not that I could speak or correspond with the persons who dealt with such matters at Dell, as all the contact I had with Dell personal had no idea where that department was located, (ie which country) and where not alloed to contact them in any case!).

My credit card company was no help either, other than then to say it was nothing to do with them, and that I should contact Dell...

There is nothing that I can see in Dell's terms and conditions or my credit card company's terms and conditions which states anything about pre sales authorisations of amounts on my credit card which the credit card will not do anything about.

Also, in England you can only telephone Dell on a premium line (an 0870 number) where Dell receive share of the cost of the call, shared with the telephone line supplier.

I then purchased (once the block had been removed from my credit card) a HP desktop, which has worked fine since...

The result is that I will never order another Dell (have only bought their computers until then).

[ Reply to This ]


authorizations... [ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
by nicievans on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 01:27:45 PM PDT

I have never worked closely with credit cards, but did handle ordering and issue resolution of debit cards for a local bank. Our cards were configured so that authorizations expired after three days or when the actual charge came through, whichever was first. Your credit card company should have been able to manually delete the authorization, but may have needed the OK from Dell to do so first. The management software I used for ordering the cards and providing customer service allowed me to delete authorizations when necessary (but was only done on rare occasions). The cardholder has to understand that any authorized purchase amount can still be charged to the card after the authorization itself has been deleted, so it isn't a good idea to delete the charge unless the merchant has already canceled it in their system.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Dell is better[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 12:59:57 PM PDT

Dell seems to have stepped up support for me in the last bit. I had to call them today as a matter of fact and they were great. HP on the other hand, yuck!

[ Reply to This ]


Apple![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by mwkingsandiego on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 01:25:55 PM PDT

I don't know about "best" - that's a comparative for which I have insufficient data. However, with two Apple MacBooks currently in my home office and some others as their predecessors, I know Apple does well in this area. As hardware and OS software all come from Apple, there's no finger pointing between those two camps which is certainly an advantage. These two MacBooks have really been close to flawless (they aren't from the earliest runs that had some transition to volume production problems). However, I did recently have an issue with one of them not behaving properly as battery charge went to zero. Searching Apple's excellent (free) support site didn't turn up anything that I thought was helpful. Next a posting in the on-line forum (also excellent and free) led to some hints that pointed at free battery replacement, so on a Saturday afternoon I called Tech Support. After almost no wait, a very pleasant and knowledgeable guy speaking excellent American English walked me thru a little diagnosis and showed me how I'd caused the "calibration" for that to be out of sorts by not exercising this feature in the last few months, and helped me thru the process to reset the calibration, and now all is back to normal. Darn fine, by my standards.

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Mac Laptop Battery[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 08:19:11 AM PDT

walked me thru a little diagnosis and showed me how I'd caused the "calibration" for that to be out of sorts by not exercising this feature in the last few months, and helped me thru the process to reset the calibration, and now all is back to normal.

You have to run some diagnostic every few months to keep a battery charged?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Dell Vs HP[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 02:01:07 PM PDT

I wouldn't trade my Thinkpad for either a Dell or HP. I have never had a problem with them, and I support over 60 units in my IT shop. Their support has always been top rate - fast, efficient and responsive. And the T60's have been rock solid.

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HP BIOS Update Nightmare[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 02:02:17 PM PDT

Recently, I was using my new HP 7680n PC with Windows Xp and I received a small update window saying HP wants to update my BIOS. Not paying close attention I clicked OK. Within 30 sec. my PC froze and would not reBoot again. I called HP Tech support(India) and got the typical Hindu Runaround. They were polite, but said there was nothing they could do. I could pay to have my PC shipped to a service center for a new BIOS chip and reformat my hard drive. I said "HELL NO - NO WAY". After several hours of haggaling and demanding higher levels of support escalations, I was finally able to get someone in Canada who knew about the problem and arranged to have someone come to my locaton and replace the motherboard. Within three days someone showed up here with a new motherboard and installed in my PC. Every thing booted up and seemed to work OK. They won't admit it but I believe that that BIOS update was for Vista users. I run Windows XP!

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Fun times[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 02:27:58 PM PDT

Regarding BIOS update for Vista -- it doesn't work that way.   The BIOS is the same for XP as it is for Vista.  If it was to support Vista, it would still work with XP anyway.

We were a Compaq shop with many Proliant servers.  HP bought out Compaq and the quality has been poor ever since.  We've had numerous hardware problems.  One of my servers just died last Friday.  One SCSI hard drive in a RAID5 array was failing, but refused to actual fail.  This overloaded the IO bandwidth of the SCSI BUS, causing delayed writes to queue in RAM and then virtual memory.  Eventually the delayed writes failed.  

We found out what drive it was and pulled it.  This stopped the sector recovery attempts and the server started working much faster, but after a reboot it failed to boot due to too much data corruption via the failed writes.

In the old days, the Compaq drives would have notified us of this.  They had many features built into them to handle this.  The new drives have all those features removed and only use SMART.

We had a tape drive, less than 30 days old, fail on a $7000+ HP server.   We had standard next day warranty.   Our local HP guy came out and said the drive was bad.   He had one in inventory for warranty work.  But the one he had in stock was for premium warranty only.  And the part was on back order.

So I had to wait 45 days for a working tape drive.

Anyway, our last two servers are Dell.  

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Wrong about the BIOS update...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 11:32:52 AM PDT

You're right in that the BIOS is the same no matter what operating system you run... However, the FLASH routine will be different! For example, you can't run a DOS-based flash routine under an NT operating system (or vice versa). Vista has a LOT of changes under the hood, so a Vista flash routine may not work on XP and vice versa. It wouldn't surprise me if they sent you the Vista version and you ran it on XP... If it was well-programmed, it could be the same version (or "if OS = 'Vista' then Code A else Code B) but too many of these flash programs are made by some low-grade Chinese programmer...

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Dell vs HP[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 03:24:21 PM PDT

I have been extremely lucky.  My Dell XPS had zero problems attributable to Dell since its purchase in 2003.  That is the way to keep your support costs low - make good product.

On the other hand, while I have never owned an HP PC, I have had their printers and ended up throwing them all away (ok they were all cheapies).   However my Brother All-in-One bought for $125 has worked like a champ for 4 years as well.  I even get emails sans advertising when a firmware upgrade is in order.

In case you are wondering, I live on the computer so both have seen lots of use.

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Dell vs HP[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 06:30:40 PM PDT

Dell has bounced back and we are seeing a renewed vigor and better support from them and HP in comparison is lost in the woods and has some very bad customer experience and need to get their act together very fast otherwise we can see Dell overtaking them both in sales and support.

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Dell is bringing sexy back...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 07:27:59 PM PDT

Dell's service and quality has been increasing in my opinion over the past couple of years. They still have a ways to go, however not near as far as all other competitors. Dell by far is superior to HP by any standards.

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hard to buy an HP[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 10:02:53 PM PDT

Over the past 3 years I have bought over $1,000,000 in Dell hardware. Do not regret it a single day. Over the same time period, I have purchased about $500,000 in HP hardware. I wish I would have spent it at Dell instead. Problems and more problems. over 300 desktops-dead. Took over 9 months and many, many pone calls to get HP to fix them. In contrast 100 Dells died. Took 4 days and one phone call. You cannot pay me to buy HP stuff today.

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DEll yes![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 05:31:08 AM PDT

I have two 2006 high end dell products, a desk top and a laptop. The desk top was out for exactly 2 months while overseas "support" danced around. By good fortune, one day I was connected to Canada. A Tech was dispatched and three components immediately replaced. Problem with the lap top, a call to Utah and within minutes a resolution. This is the OLD Dell support. Good news, bad news -upgrading to VISTA will void my current premium long term support package.

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eh?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 06:56:19 AM PDT

Of course it will, since Vista is a piece of shit. If they tried to support computers with Vista they'd rapidly be nibbled to death by the costs of dealing with the overwhelming volume of complaints.

Which is no biggie; you really don't want Vista anyway. Seriously, you don't. Not if you value your computer's continued utility.

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Treat customers as you want them to treat you[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by tscoff on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 05:40:33 AM PDT

    Has anyone at the upper level management levels of any of these major companies (Apple, Dell, Gateway, HP, IBM, Micron, etc.) ever stopped to consider the positive marketing that they get in the form of word of mouth advertising when they produce high quality products, back those products with high quality service, and sell them for a fair price?  Not to mention repeat business.  Satisfied customers tell their friends and they also buy their next computer from the same company.  Unsatisfied customers tell their friends, complete strangers, and anyone else who will listen.....for years.

    I support several IBM (now Lenovo) computers.  A few years ago they had problem where the capacitors on the motherboards blew out and the computers stopped working.  The computers were out of warranty.  Not only did IBM replace the motherboards under a special repair program because it was a manufacturing defect, they also sent someone out to do the replacement for me so I didn't have to install the new motherboard.

    A few years ago when I worked somewhere where our default computer was a Gateway, we bought 4 brand new computers.  The order was a $14,000 order and we bought them with the highest level of warranty that Gateway offered.  The conversation on the phone went like this:

Me: So you admit that these computers were defective out of the box and it was a manufacturer's hardware defect
Gateway: Yes
Me: And we have the gold, on site, next day warranty
Gateway: Yes
Me: And this defect is not covered under the warranty, even though you shipped me 4 computers that do not work and did not work when they were shipped
Gateway: That is correct
Me: Please tell your supervisor that I am going to repeat this conversation for the next 20 years every time anyone asks me for advice on what computer to buy and I am going to tell them that Gateway's warranty is not worth the paper that it's printed on and they need to buy a computer from anyone other than Gateway if they want a computer that actually works and has a guarantee.

    IBM's marketing department (and now Lenovo's because the same employees who performed support for IBM at the same facility in Georgia are now working for Lenovo in the same building) can't buy the positive PR that they've gotten from me over the years because of their support policies and the high quality of their tech support employees.  I've told everyone who asks to buy an IBM/Lenovo and I've told them why.

    By the same token, Gateway's marketing department is spending a small fortune trying to overcome the negative PR that they've gotten from their tech support department giving me poor service over the years.  I've cost them a small fortune in sales by repeating that story every time I get the chance.  I make purchasing decisions and I discuss those purchasing decisions with my peers at other organizations.  I tell them that Gateway is not on my list of approved vendors and never will be and I repeat that conversation that I had with Gateway tech support.  That conversation happened in 2001, and I'm still repeating it to people who ask me for advice on what brand computer to buy!

    The people who make decisions about the quality of technical support and the quality of their products need to take into account the value of positive or negative PR when people experience their products and their technical support.  Their decisions to cut costs or improve the experience that customers have when dealing with the company will have a much longer impact than this quarter's short term profits.  Those decisions will be affecting the company for years.  In this example, IBM is thriving, Lenovo is thriving, and Gateway is struggling to stay in business and is less than half the company that they were in 2000.  I'm not the only happy IBM/Lenovo customer and I'm not the only unhappy Gateway customer.  The upper level management of those two companies made decisions about how the companies were going to treat their customers.  The company that chose to treat customers well is still thriving.  The company that chose to treat customers poorly for a short term profit is struggling.

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Just out of curiosity[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by beamdriver on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 04:35:58 PM PDT

What was wrong with those Gateways and what was your ultimate resolution of the issue?

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Resolution[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by tscoff on Fri Aug 10, 2007 at 02:52:48 AM PDT

The Zip drives didn't work because Gateway configured them incorrectly at the factory.  I had to tear the computers apart, change the jumpers on the Zip drives, and put them back together.

And the resolution is that I have told this story to everyone who I can.  Gateway never even apologized.

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Don't buy a Lenovo![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#53)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 11:51:00 PM PDT

Horrible, absolutely HORRIBLE!!! That's how I would describe my experience associated with my recent Lenovo X61 Tablet purchase. Don't buy one! I've had it almost 2 weeks and it's malfunctioned right out of the box. Three different service managers at Lenovo have refused to provide any SW de-bug support the pre-installed software, including Vista Business OEM, unless I pay for their "Lenovo Live" service. Microsoft vehemently states that Lenovo is bound contractually to support OEM installs - Lenovo refutes this. The HW support was extremely weak too. I have not loaded any software yet since I wanted to simply learn the tablet functions. The computer locks-up hourly, has had "blue screen" crashes and numerous error messages. At the HW support teams suggestion, I reinstalled the entire system multiple times (consuming 3+ hours each time). Microsoft support generously offered me a free support case but after many hours of effort, they couldn't figure out the issues. Lenovo claims they only allow returns for full credit AFTER I send it in at least once for service. Otherwise, they'll hit me with a 15% restocking fee. I balked at the fee and asked for a customer service manager - they told me none are available and that it takes 2 working days for a reply! It's been three days now, and after repeated calls into Lenovo, no manager has called back yet. Today I called my credit card company to refuse the charges. How does Lenovo stay in business? Coming from someone who's very PC literate, my experience recently forces me to urge you to find another computer to buy. Please, tell all your friends, DON'T BUY A LENOVO!

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#60)
by maderikapapa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:46:11 AM PDT

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Dell Offshore Support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 08:46:59 AM PDT

I have always found the Dell overseas (I assume India) support quite helpful. I find them easier to understand than the IRS staff in Atlanta. They seem less pressured to get you off the phone and move on, they wait while you try their solutions. My only complaint is the quality of the phone connection which is sometimes comparable to a faint cellphone signal. Ask them to call back until you get good signal strength.

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Support Can & Will Vary[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 10:40:50 AM PDT

Tech support quality always seems to ebb and flow over time for most vendors. I have been deploying excellent products from HP for the past four years with but one service call. It was handled at Tier One within a few minutes and everything was up and running for my client with almost zero impact on the organization. On the other hand, I had the extreme displeasure of having Toshiba take over two months to fix a notebook for another client. There was virtually no communication to me from Toshiba during that time. I had to hound them and finally threaten a lawsuit before they magically found the required parts and completed the requisite repairs. This experience has given me pause for thought as to how much business I want to port to Toshiba in the future. The bottom line these days often boils down to "What have you done for me lately?" It seems a shame that vendors cannot or will not strive to deliver consistently great tech support. Perhaps that's what happens when management MBA-types look at nothing more than the bottom line and short-term profits in order to keep stock prices and their own options portfolio maximized in value. Truly great companies that understand the value of customer loyalty are fewer and much farther between in today's world.

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Dell Tech Support Delightfully Amazed Me[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by huskyfan on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 11:02:53 AM PDT

A few weeks ago I called Dells' tech support and was DELIGHTED with the experience. I had bought my wife a used Optiplex GX400 for $375 at a local university's surplus store. There was no manual, disks or other documentation supplied with it, but I pretty much winged it OK installing Windows XP until I got into trouble by installing the wrong video driver. Here's a copy of my email response to his "How are we doing" email:
--------------------------------
Hi Chris.

Service tag:  4TJ7D11

Again, thanks for the help. I wasted 4 hours reformatting and installing Windows and applications after downloading and installing the wrong video driver.

I also want to say that I am DELIGHTED to have received help from someone whose English I could clearly understand and who wasn't reading from a troubleshooting tree. I have been a Dell owner since I bought my first one, a Dimension XPS R450, in 1999 and have generally been disappointed frustrated trying to get help from off-shored tech support in Asia. It has been the one sore spot about Dell. I love our 4 Dells and hope that Dell has finally decided to bring the help desk back to the US.

Please feel free to pass my remarks on.
--------------------------------
And I did email his supervisor.

The technician was very knowledgeable, and went beyond the call to find other drivers that were missing and walked me through installing them.

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HP 'service'[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 04:27:19 PM PDT

I can concur on recent HP service. I recently purchased an HP business class laptop, for quite a premium, only to have it arrive defective. Long story short - it took five weeks for them to replace the unit. This was for a business class laptop with a 3 year, next business day warranty...

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Support Contracts Needed on Laptops[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by auctionhugh on Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 02:29:04 PM PDT

This is a bit of a tangent.

I have always advocated purchasing a support contract to cover any and all laptops for as long as you plant to own them. On all brands I've owned (Dell, toshiba, gateway) they have always paid for themselves. Also, when I let one lapse, the laptop inevitably develops an expensive problem within a few months!

It used to be you could get a 3-4 year dell extended warranty on a laptop for about $100 after rebate, and I have always been very happy to invest that. With warranties now running nearly $100 a year for an $800 laptop, the math is a lot more difficult.

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Ugh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 03:34:48 PM PDT

"After rebate"? spit

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What the hell?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 01:13:11 PM PDT

Is someone engaging in censorship here? I'm quite certain there was a reply to this post yesterday and a reply (by me) to that reply. I now see neither of them. I find this disturbing, especially as one of the posts was by me.

In future, please do not delete my posts without cause. Ever. Thank you.

In the meantime I believe I'm owed an explanation and an apology.

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Well?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous User on Sun Aug 19, 2007 at 07:24:53 PM PDT

Well?

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How?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#48)
by sconeu on Mon Aug 20, 2007 at 06:59:08 AM PDT

Just curious,

How are we supposed to know just *which* "Anonymous User" is you?

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States of America.
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You're not.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#49)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 20, 2007 at 03:25:27 PM PDT