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Sold Down the Digital River

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 12:17:43 AM PDT

If there's one kind of product that ought to be easy to sell online, it's software. And maybe it would be if companies like online software distributor Digital River didn't make it so hard to just buy what you want. At least that's how one reader feels after trying in vain not to order Digital River's bogus "extended download" insurance while purchasing a BlackIce subscription renewal.


"Last night I was home and on my music machine (a computer I have set up exclusively to deal with digital music and recording) and noticed that my Symantec Internet Security had expired," the reader wrote. "The company where I work just purchased 100 seats of Sophos AV and Sophos kindly allows a matching number of installations for a company's home users (you buy 100 for your company, Sophos gives you 100 more 'standalone' installs for home users). This is great policy and most welcome. I thought that I'd uninstall Symantec and install Sophos in its place, but this would leave me without a firewall. I have the BlackIce firewall from ISS, but that too had lapsed and so I decided to renew the product."

The reader went to the ISS website and purchased a renewal for BlackIce for $19.95. "When I hit the checkout button, there was an option box for an additional $6.99 already checked that prompted for download insurance, some goofy policy that allows a purchaser to re-download their purchase for up to one year. I cannot imagine why anyone would need to do this, but there it is. I unchecked the box and hit the 'update order' button to opt out of the insurance, and that appeared to do the trick. So I proceeded through the purchase, entering my personal data. That box popped up again, once more already filled in, obligating me to the additional $6.99. Once again I un-checked it, and again it looked like I could just pay #19.95. At the end of the purchase I was given a summary of my purchase and you can imagine what happened; I was charged the extra $6.99. At this point, it was a done turkey as I had made the purchase. I was livid and searched for somewhere to call or write to get this charge off my card."

"I finally found a cheesy customer service request form at Digital River and filled it in," the reader wrote. "There was no subject line and no way for me to create one or modify one. It was only when pre-viewing my form before submitting that I noticed a subject line had been automatically entered - something about trouble downloading my purchase. I had not even tried to download it yet! I sent the form in anyway and got back just about exactly the response I thought I would - mostly just links to their FAQ pages. My complaint about the $6.99 charge was not even mentioned and Digital River had neatly 'answered' my request for help and answered the subject line that they made up. This smells of scam to me. There was no way to opt out of that charge and even when I was sure that I had, I got billed anyway."

The reader is hardly alone in this experience. It's not the first time I've heard similar complaints about how hard Digital River makes it to avoid paying for their "Extended Download Service" when downloading products from any number of software publishers. This "insurance" has never made much sense - after all, why you should have to pay even a few bucks for a backup copy that you're really entitled to anyway? But the download insurance seems particularly ridiculous in this situation, because the reader was just downloading a one-year renewal for support and updates on his existing BlackIce software. What possible reason would there be for him to want this service other than a desire to give Digital River seven bucks for nothing?

Of course, it wasn't the amount that bugged the reader. "Ed, $6.99 is not going to bankrupt me, but it's the principle," he wrote. "The amount is small enough that I imagine most people will just say 'oh well,' let Digital River be richer by $6.99, and move on. But I have been seeing so many scams that this one just pushed me over my [expletive] tolerance edge. If Digital River processes just 100 purchases per day, they make an additional $699 -- that's $4,893 per week and over $250,000 a year. I am at a point where I do not trust any online transaction any more. If you look far enough, there is nearly always someone making something extra from these 'deals' and now Digital River has joined in the fun."

What vendor have you seen making the process of buying stuff online a lot less trustworthy than it should be? Tell us about it by posting your comments below, calling the Gripe Line voice mail at 1 888 875-7916 or writing me at Foster@gripe2ed.com.

< Arbitrary Sneakwrap Takes Some Hits | Reader Voices: Who Pays for Content? >


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Sold Down the Digital River | 36 comments (36 topical) | Post A Comment
I know what I would do.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by bytehead on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 04:37:45 AM PDT

I would contest the whole charge, not even the $6.99. And then I'd go with a different firewall.

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Retribution[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Krelgar on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 05:27:41 AM PDT

I say the user should download the software at least once a day for the next year. Make it more expensive for Digital River to comply with their charge.

[ Reply to This ]


33333333333[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 07:12:41 AM PDT

Free YouTube Downloader | YouTube to iPod | YouTube on PSP | YouTube to MP3 | YouTube to MP4 | YouTube to 3GP | YouTube to AVI | YouTube to MPG | YouTube to WMV | YouTube to DivX | YouTube to MOV | YouTube to WMA | YouTube Ripper YouTube to iPod | YouTube to iPhone | YouTube to PSP | YouTube to Zune | YouTube to MP4 | YouTube to Apple TV | YouTube to 3GP | iPod to PC Transfer

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Fraud - across state lines[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by TonyK on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 05:57:12 AM PDT

Get both the state and federal attorney general offices involved. File complaints and also add deceptive practices.

[ Reply to This ]


Just tried to buy BlackICE[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by AnonymousUser on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 08:22:56 AM PDT

I just went to the ISS website and attempted to purchase a personal copy of BlackICE for $39.95. As stated above, the $6.99 insurance charge was automatically added, but I clicked on the delete icon to remove it. I only had to do this once.

The payment selection page doesn't show the total you will pay, and I chose the PayPal option to avoid having my credit card charged immediately. When the PayPal summary screen appeared, asking me to login, the total charge was $39.95. I was not going to be charged for insurance.

Now I can't say whether the result would be the same if I chose the credit card option, but I suspect that there was some sort of glitch in the reader's checkout process. Perhaps cookies for this site were partially blocked.

N.B.: Which of the following is not a color?
Quince, Teal, Gray, Purple, Yellow, Blue

Actually, they're all colors. Just go to the paint department of any hardware store and I'm sure you'll find a color chip called "quince".

[ Reply to This ]



User Error[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 11:49:57 AM PDT

I buy software online all the time, from Digital River and others, and have never had issues like this. If this were really a scam, would this really be the incident that uncovers it? I can name 50 companies off the top of my head that offer "EDS" or something similar. This sounds more like user-error than anything...

[ Reply to This ]


Wise buys[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 26, 2007 at 01:52:51 PM PDT

I too buy software "all the time". I have been purchasing agent as well as network tech for my company for a very long time. I too have purchased several times from Digital River and this has not happened to me before. I suppose it could be user error but I totally voided the sale, tried again with the same result. I could NOT opt out of the insurance charge. Today might be different, but THAT day was as described and it came as NO surprise to the DR person I finally got a hold of. They knew ALL about it. Doctor Smith

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


video joiner[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 22, 2008 at 03:52:25 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Cookie issue perhaps?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 12:46:16 PM PDT

Sounds like a issue with cookies being blocked. I've purchased a few things through Digital River and, while I've been offered the "Extended Download Service" each time, I've only had to uncheck it once for each purchase. As for the idea of the EDS, I agree 100%. It's a goofy idea. I can see why they'd want to default it to checked. I can't imagine many people would choose it for themselves.

[ Reply to This ]


Doesn't absolve them[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by foxyshadis1 on Sat Jun 23, 2007 at 10:32:17 PM PDT

It does sound like a cookies issue, I'll agree. At the same time, the fault is still 100% with digital river, because it's their shopping cart, and if they allow you to purchase without cookies (I wouldn't know), they have an obligation to ensure that it works properly. Tacking on spurious charges because you have the wrong browser, wrong version, or cookies disabled, is a failure of design or testing, and merits a chargeback and an official complaint, if it isn't amicably refunded and fixed.

Since they're one of the companies that don't see a need for customer service, pushing it out on the software houses who use them, I doubt an amicable resolution is in the cards. At least email or call ISS to complain, and consider sending a letter to DigitalRiver.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



503 "Service Unavailable"[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 10:31:18 PM PDT

I don't suppose that's an "issue with cookies being blocked", or something else simple I can fix at my end, because I'm frankly getting sick of it. Haven't we been through this once before? And the last time this sort of crap kept happening, Ed's response was to punish all the anonymous posters by revoking their posting privileges for three months or so...

[ Reply to This ]


What is going on?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jun 23, 2007 at 06:11:38 PM PDT

It's still happening. Frequently, and when it starts misbehaving it won't allow access for tens of minutes and sometimes for whole hours. My somewhat-random sampling indicates the site's uptime percentage is in the neighborhood of 40 and dropping, which is terrible.

What the hell is going on?!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Uptime[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by foxyshadis1 on Sat Jun 23, 2007 at 08:54:46 PM PDT

I'm quite sure Jeff is working on whatever server problems may be causing this, whether it's a DDoS, spam, capacity issues, or hardware failure. Bringing it up here is very unlikely to help or bring a faster resolution.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Do you have a point or are you just blathering?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 11:20:17 AM PDT

Really. Then why has nothing changed in over a week? Assuming there's been proper change management, rolling the server's configuration back to the day before this started happening should be a ten-minute job.

Also, if you don't believe there's value in posting somewhere to speak your mind when someone is doing something annoying, then I have to question why you're reading and posting comments at a blog called the "gripe log" to begin with.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



It is called the Gripelog...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 11:47:06 AM PDT

... not the Whinelog.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


It is called the Gripelog...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 25, 2007 at 12:09:29 PM PDT

...not the 503log.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Share, please.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by foxyshadis1 on Tue Jun 26, 2007 at 03:49:46 AM PDT

Good sir, you must have made the discovery of a lifetime, if you know of a way to roll back a software change to fix a hardware problem.

Do you pay for GripeLog? If not, what gives you the right to demand any given level of uptime? I have no problem with a post, but it gets old seeing whining in every other posting, especially coming from someone who thinks a database timeout error is a defacement by a hacking group. Your further efforts won't make it happen any faster, so why bother?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Eh?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 26, 2007 at 03:07:51 PM PDT

What in heaven's name are you blithering about? Where does it say anything here about hacking, defacement, or hardware failures, except in your own posting? I can only assume you're a) referring to stuff posted somewhere else (maybe not even on the gripe log at all) and b) assuming that "Anonymous User" is the handle of a single user instead of containing multitudes.

In any case, this didn't used to happen, something was changed, and now it does. If the change corresponds to any software or configuration change, rolling back that change should get rid of it, and similar changes should really be tested on a scratch monkey before the general user base is subjected to it -- I doubt many of us are here to be guinea pigs for untested configuration changes by either Ed or his hosting company.

If that hosting company is Dreamhost Ed better move it elsewhere, because there's all kinds of shit hitting the fan about Dreamhost being compromised and sites they host hacked, often in subtle ways.

And if a particular piece of hardware is failing, just replace it already. The problem should then go away.


[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Something You Could Do To Help[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Ed Foster on Tue Jun 26, 2007 at 02:46:34 PM PDT

I am sorry about these 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable errors. Jeff and my webhost have been trying to figure out what's casuing them, so far without success. One thing that might help is if anyone encounters one of these shortly (like a few minutes) after having accessed my page successfully, please write me at foster@gripe2ed.com and tell me in what time period the error must have happened. -- Ed

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Hrm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 13, 2007 at 12:41:13 PM PDT

They seem to have stopped. OTOH, the default format has AGAIN been changed back to HTML by somebody. Who keeps doing that and why?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Digital River ripoff[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 26, 2007 at 11:32:20 AM PDT

Actually, the insurance does not work as advertised in at least one case. I had a client with a printout of purchase. It clearly stated the order and date and the 1 yr insurance. Since we were replacing a laptop, we opted to re-download her software. We put in the info exactly as asked and Digital River came back with a "never heard of her" response. I had trouble removing the DR charge from a webroot order and I was surprised at the extra charge that was tacked onto the payment confirmation. I went back to webroot and tried to "change my order" but I got an additional charge tacked on for something else I didn't want. At that point I angrily emailed them about the difficulty. To my surprise, they promptly credited my card 100%. So I don't hate them but I think they should fix their site.

[ Reply to This ]


Like License Insurance?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 26, 2007 at 12:10:31 PM PDT

This sounds like the license insurance scam that came around about a year ago. "That's a lovely license you have there. It would be a *shame* if something were to happen to it..."

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


AVG[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 26, 2007 at 11:39:01 AM PDT

I had a simliar problem with Grisoft when renewing AVG. Checkout kept adding $10.00 for a CD I did not want. While I don't mind paying $10.00 more for the product I sure don't want the CD. I ended up downloading the free version. -rq

[ Reply to This ]


Digital River: the worst[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 26, 2007 at 12:03:42 PM PDT

It's not just the "download insurance" that's the problem. Of the four or five transactions I've made with Digital River, every single one was screwed up -- overbilled, wrong product shipped, long delays, etc. Customer "service" was utterly useless. This is truly the most customer-hostile and incompetent online dealer I have ever used.

[ Reply to This ]


File a claim - got results with United Airlines[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 06:38:07 AM PDT

File a claim with your credit card provider. UA did this to me with a "close in" fee of $50 that was billed to my credit card with no positive notice whatsoever during the online transaction. UA told me (via very difficult Indian customer service) that the notice was on a web page that I never saw nor was ever directed to during the purchase. After much ado with UA, and then my credit card provider, UA finally gave in and I got my $50 back.

[ Reply to This ]


Dispute the charge on your credit card[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by auctionhugh on Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 06:06:42 PM PDT

Whenever I dispute something under $25 or so charged to my amex, they just automatically credit it back to me, and I'm sure they don't even go after the vendor. This is actually irritating because what I really want is the miscreant vendor to go through $10 worth of hassle more than I want my $10 back.

________________________
Kallen Web Design: Top hit on MSN Search for "Small Business Web Design"!


[ Reply to This ]


bigge they are the less they care about you[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 12:00:53 PM PDT

Digital River is a scam. Don't blame the software vendor blame the scam artists known as Digital River...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


DG smells of a scam to me[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 09:34:00 AM PDT

I'm on the affiliate program with DR. I earned around $1300 in commissions in the past 6 months but they seem not to be willing to pay out. They keep re-assuring me the checks have been sent out but I received nothing! How would you call this?

[ Reply to This ]


Digital River: Over 6 years of terrible service[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:39:54 PM PDT

Back in 2001, I had my final, terrible experience with Digital River. I wrote the whole thing up on my website.

Ever since then, I've received countless emails from frustrated people tearing their hair out over the bizarre, terrible, and perhaps fraudulent misbehavior of Digital River.

No doubt I receive these messages because a) they can't get anyone at Digital River to respond to them and b) my rant is the #1 google result for "digital river awful", #2 for "digital river sucks" and #4 for "digital river terrible".

As for me, I've refused to purchase any software online if I find myself staring at Digital River. This has directly resulted in thousands of dollars in lost sales for vendors who choose to use DR.

Sad to see it hasn't changed at all in 6 years.

[ Reply to This ]



yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by maderikapapa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:43:49 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Digital River sucks[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 02:44:31 AM PDT

Digital River sucks. Plain and simple. It lets you ship ANYTHING to ANYWHERE by land from US - brain dead interface that even a schoolboy can design better in his/her sleep. Customer service is awful too. I am having such a hard time getting an order cancelled.

[ Reply to This ]


Lychee[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
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[ Reply to This ]


desuyo[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
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[ Reply to This ]


amoon[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
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[ Reply to This ]


trmow[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 04:12:37 AM PDT

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m[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by msa6el on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 10:14:52 AM PDT

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