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Anonymous Posting Returns, I Hope

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon May 14, 2007 at 11:00:37 AM PDT

This weekend we began a new phase in the battle against link spam on my GripeLog website. And, fingers crossed, so far I am optimistic that we are slowly getting to the point where we can once again have the kind of open discussions we all want without netbot attacks ruining it all.


Late last year you may recall we were forced to suspend anonymous posting. Spammers were abusing the comment-posting engine of my weblog, posting thousands of link spam comments a day and bringing my server down nightly. So, although I did not want to limit our discussions to those who've created a login on my site, I really had no choice at the time.

And it worked. While suspending anonymous posting did not immediately stop the netbot attacks from hitting our server, it did prevent their link spam from actually getting posted. The nightly traffic surge started to diminish as we found ways to block some of the most frequent sources, to the point where our server goes weeks without crashing. Spammers who go to the trouble of creating a login do occasionally still post their trash, but that's much easier for our moderators to detect and eliminate. While we're still cleaning up the comments in the older stories that were trashed while the netbots were at their most active, we're getting there.

The thing we've missed by not having anonymous posting, however, is the wide range of opinions and perspectives that first-time and very occasional visitors can bring to a discussion. While we still have some good conversations, they haven't nearly as lively since. So we've turned anonymous posting back on, but with one small difference. We now have a challenge question - which of these is not a car, etc. - to answer before you post your comment.

This is an experiment, of course, so we'll just have to see how it goes. These captcha-like things are a bit of an inconvenience - a few of the challenge questions aren't all that easy, as a matter of fact - so I don't know if it's going to result in more comments or less. And there's no guarantee the netbots won't find a way around it and start crushing us again, or perhaps crush us even if they can't find a way around it. Our server did crash Sunday night -- perhaps just a coincidence or perhaps it was an attack on our new security system. If so, the bad guys appear to have failed to get any of their link spam posted, so maybe we passed our first test. But they'll be back, so we'll just have to see how it goes.

The goal is simply to have the best online discussions we possibly can. So whether you're a regular with a login on my site or an occasional visitor, I hope you'll stick with us while we work the bugs out. And, as always, when you've got something to say, let us hear it. Post your comments, anonymously or not, below or write me at Foster@gripe2ed.com.

< College Kid Learns Lesson About Dell's Warranty | Motherboard Replacements and Windows OEM EULAs >


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Anonymous Posting Returns, I Hope | 33 comments (33 topical) | Post A Comment
One small request...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by AnonymousUser on Mon May 14, 2007 at 11:28:01 AM PDT

Could you tweak the comment routine to require a question only for anonymous users? Otherwise, there's no benefit to registering on this site.

Also, why did you choose this multiple-choice method instead of the more standard "captcha" text boxes? With, say, 6 answers to choose from, 16% of the spam postings will still get through using a relatively simple script to analyze the page and select one answer at random. With thousands of attempts, a significant number will get through.

Bob

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Re: One small request...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Ed Foster on Mon May 14, 2007 at 03:25:35 PM PDT

We definitely will work on making improvements to this sytem. We've been struggling for months to find a captcha that would work with our weblog engine, and this was the first approach we found that could be implemented without requiring a lot of other changes to the site. -- Ed

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Good luck[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by tcsbiz on Mon May 14, 2007 at 07:08:45 PM PDT

Ed, I wish you the best of luck in bringing back anonymous posting. I haven't seen this sort of captcha. It's normally a series of skewed characters that have to be entered. But this may work.

It's true that the volume of posts on the site have been diminished, but, I think the quality of the posts has been better without any of the childish rants or comments directed at another poster. I liked the civility of it.

Tom.

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new system[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Reziac on Tue May 15, 2007 at 10:32:48 AM PDT

As one person pointed out, the challenge is probably not needed for logged-in posters. If you don't feel that it can be dropped entirely for the logged-in types, you might implement a "known-good user" list for regulars. This might be automated by parsing for interactive posting patterns, or something like.

As to the new text-challenge, I far prefer this to the evil image-captcha. Text is far more friendly to the blind, AND to folk who don't load images (due to a slow connection or by preference). The only problem I can see is that it really presumes one is a native English speaker with a pretty fair vocabulary. Still, this is better than presuming one has both perfect vision and good visual-noise-parsing skills, as is the case with the image-captchas.

.
~REZ~
[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Google is your friend[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 16, 2007 at 11:28:00 AM PDT

Any trickier captchas can be solved with the aid of Google -- this ain't no high school closed-book exam!

FWIW I haven't seen any yet that gave me trouble.

Registering should (if it doesn't already) also require one, but registered users could stand not to get one (at least after N postings, for some suitable choice of N, none of which were later deleted as spam; this might even also be applied to anons with a stable IP address).

I note that all the form pages use the POST method of submission, which means you can also safely reject any posting attempts that arrive as GET www-form-url-encoded requests as being automated. That one simple criterion often weeds out 90% of the spam submissions or robo registration attempts at forum sites, and may catch bots that actually manage to defeat the captcha.

Make sure the repertoire of questions is enormous, so it's unlikely some bot maker will compile an exhaustive list of the questions and correct answers and program them into a bot. Add new ones from time to time, and retire old ones.

And please either make "Auto Format" the default format or save the last-used format in a cookie, so you only need to change it when you want to change it instead of with every post?

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Auto Format[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 26, 2007 at 09:14:50 AM PDT

Thanks

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


ReCAPTCHA[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by AnonymousUser on Fri May 25, 2007 at 09:25:12 AM PDT

Ed,

I came across the following article in TG Daily:

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32194/118/

Carnegie-Mellon students are using OCR-unrecognizable words found during their Internet book scanning initiative as CAPTCHA phrases used by websites.

I propose that you switch over to this new and decided more useful method of verifying anonymous users.

Bob

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Unverifiable[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 26, 2007 at 09:17:25 AM PDT

These "captchas" can't be machine-verified though, can they? So a spammer could have their bot submit any old response, and they'd be able to spam, and at the same time they'd pollute the results of the text scanning with nonsense.

Unless the captcha submission is vetted by a human, but then it kind of defeats the whole idea. That human could just directly aid the scanning project instead, and it would take ages between submitting your posting with the captcha and the posting being accepted, during which time you need to keep a copy in case something goes wrong and you need to retry, or risk losing data.

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Answer from recaptcha.net[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by AnonymousUser on Thu May 31, 2007 at 11:13:18 AM PDT

But if a computer can't read such a CAPTCHA, how does the system know the correct answer to the puzzle? Here's how: Each new word that cannot be read correctly by OCR is given to a user in conjunction with another word for which the answer is already known. The user is then asked to read both words. If they solve the one for which the answer is known, the system assumes their answer is correct for the new one. The system then gives the new image to a number of other people to determine, with higher confidence, whether the original answer was correct.

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I'm not sure if I want anonymous posting[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 15, 2007 at 10:30:30 AM PDT

It seems to lead to more flame wars and sniping by one camp on any articles favorable to the other side. That said, I find the requirement to login a very big bother, as I have a hard time remembering which of my 100 different sites this is, and what I call myself here.

[ Reply to This ]


Capcha dodging[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 15, 2007 at 01:42:50 PM PDT

Is there any truth to the story that porn sites use their visitors to solve capchas so they can feed the answers to their bots, with the explanation that they're doing it to keep out bots themselves? It seems like it could be tougher to find the question on the page and accordingly this seems perhaps a bit harder to circumvent. Hopefully this will do the trick. The one I got was easy. Which one of these is not like the others, which one of these doesn't belong; states edition.

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Innerestin captcha[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 16, 2007 at 10:13:32 AM PDT


Hadn't seen this one before...

I may just go to the "post a comment" link a few dozen times to get a feel for the kinds of questions.

THIS one was trivial for any human who's reading your blog.  Depending on the kinds of questions, it *MIGHT* be possible to code a 'bot with enough "expertise" to get through this captcha...

One thing -- how MANY challenges are there?  With a halfway decent database backing up a zombie-net, a spammer COULD simply hit your site enough to get every challenge multiple times, and try each response in turn, reporting back to the db with the "right" answer for when it's found; and build a db that each zombie can query for any given challenge you propose...

It'd be a bit of added complexity, but seems pretty viable.  Self-evidently, the spammers are getting more and more sophisticated, and given their "businesslike" (moneymaking) orientation I expect that they'll be entirely willing to pursue such minor expenses...

- Steve S.
 

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Spammers[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 16, 2007 at 10:38:54 AM PDT

I run a small gaming forum and we had to do the same thing. It is a pain because you do lose of the spontaneity. But since our forum is a gaming site we have alot of kids on there, and to try and be responsible we try to make sure there is no swearing or porn on there. When it was wide open we ended up with all kinds of porn and virus spam bots.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Brute force attack[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Jeff Foster on Wed May 16, 2007 at 10:50:42 AM PDT

I hope the spammers try using brute force to attack our capatcha. The fact is, it's trivial to change the words and catagories of the challenges, while it's not so trivial for a botnet to figure them out. Not that the spammers couldn't do it, but since I can change them so quickly, it would be a wasted effort. My fear is that they'll figure out a more clever way around it, one that won't be so easy for us to nullify.

Jeff Foster

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Uh-oh[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 18, 2007 at 12:27:36 PM PDT

Hate to tell you this, but these ones, which are especially common:

"Which of the following is not a word?
sYS7Ys, Massachusetts, Oregon, Malamute, Wisconsin, Fuchsia"

are susceptible to a dictionary attack. And common enough a bot coded to retry until it got one of those would be able to post quite a lot of spam.

Maybe use javashit and tables and things given styles made invisible in CSS to make the captchas look as they currently do to humans, but be scattered about in noncontiguous pieces in the html and even partially obfuscated (e.g. parts are client-side computed by scripts)? That will greatly increase how secure all of them are. Until someone codes a bot that just renders the page in a browser and applies OCR to a screenshot...

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Interesting[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 18, 2007 at 12:41:10 PM PDT

I just checked the page source. It's already got gratuitous <div> and <span> elements between each letter in the possible answers, to make parsing them out of the page source harder, but I agree that more could be done to obfuscate the captcha in the page source, perhaps using scripts. Then again, requiring scripting on is asking users to take on an additional security risk, too. Making it an image generated server-side is another possibility, forcing attackers to use OCR methods and then solve the existing captcha. (No need for wavy text or noisy backgrounds; it would just be to make the content harder to isolate.)

Better still might be a computed word problem that isn't multiple choice. It wouldn't be too hard, I don't think, to make a generator for the sort of word problems 5th graders get in math class -- "Johnny has five apples. Sarah has three. How many do they have, combined?" and accept "eight" (case insensitive) or 8. Infinitely many possibilities, and anyone who can't answer 5th grade math problems is probably not able to post intelligent contributions anyway. :) Of course these are susceptible to parsing attacks as well; including red herrings ("Johnny has three apples. Sarah has two. Kevin has an orange. How many apples total are there.") and varying the numbers ("an" instead of "one", or sometimes "1") and the same source obfuscation tricks (throw in spans and divs, table cells with zero width and random digits).

Heck, even the following:
"John has seven apples. Lisa has 3.
<color=white>Kevin has nine.<color>
How many total?"
(correct answer 10, not 19!)

P.S. "Which of the following is a color?
Aqua, Guava, Cranberry, Husky, Hawaii, Avocado" has several right answers. Avocado is a shade of green, as well as the fruit it's named for. And then there's cranberry...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



hmmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Jeff Foster on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:36:36 PM PDT

"Aqua, Guava, Cranberry, Husky, Hawaii, Avocado" Thanks for pointing this out. It is difficult to come up with muttaly exlusive answers, and when I went through the list I missed avacado and cranberry(is husky a color?). I know that their are serveral obvious security flaws in the capatcha. However, our primary goal was to make one that would break the spambots code, and be simple a simple rewrite to break it again if the first set of questions was defeated. SO far, it's been a success

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On the Arms Race[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Sun May 20, 2007 at 01:41:19 AM PDT

I suppose the nature of acceptable CAPTCHA is a management decision, balancing the need for acceptable rejection of automated spam and the need not to put unnaturally high barriers to the casual user. Some users will always find ways to become offended: How dare you question my humanity buzz-click! This balancing act is complicated if you don't know who is posting spam and why. It's not a reputable method used by the advertising industry, but since "page views" is still a major advertising dollar allocation metric, there is a lot of pressure to redirect clicks. In addition there are plenty of non-legitimate business models. Everyone is your neighbor in the Internet Mall. Breaking even the top-level industry standard CAPTCHA is doable with somewhat trivial image processing and ocr, fields which are active areas of research. What I like about this CAPTCHA is cut-and-paste is easier for humans than any other CAPTCHA I have seen. Some of the questions seem humorous to me.

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Well Done![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by grolaw on Sat May 19, 2007 at 09:10:22 PM PDT

Ed,

I confess - I dropped out of regular readership due to the spam - and I have similar problems with my own domains.

I'll be back as a regular reader and occasional poster, thanks to your efforts to stop this BS.

Thanks.

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I still don't see the advantage...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by rodak on Tue May 22, 2007 at 12:20:09 PM PDT

...to anonymous posting.  What's the big deal about setting up an account (one time), and logging in (or check the "keep me logged in" box to post.  So we've got a choice of:

a) Enter your userid/password to post with a userid
b) Answer a captcha to post anonymously

Why is a) so much more difficult than b)?  How lazy are we, anyway?

Or c), let IE or Firefox enter the silly credentials for you!

[ Reply to This ]



Convenience and more[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 22, 2007 at 04:05:41 PM PDT

No registration hoops. No possibly having to answer personal questions or divulge info that might be used to spam you (e.g. an email address). No having yet another login and password to remember.

What, use the "keep me logged in" checkbox? Too bad those don't seem to work properly -- ever. I've never seen one that did. It always eventually randomly decides to uncheck itself, and by then you've forgotten the password.

What, let your browser keep track of the password? If I had a penny for every time Firefox or IE ever failed to fill one in for me after a "keep me logged in" box had unchecked itself, despite having been told to remember the password in question, I'd be able to hire someone to do all this tedious shit for me. And that still doesn't help keep all the usernames straight. And it's not like you can just pick one and use it everywhere, when sooner or later you'll come across someplace where it's already been taken by somebody else.

Also, any weakening of anonymity (even to pseudonymity) may have chilling effects on speech.

I'll take the captcha anyday, TYVM.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



I still disagree[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by rodak on Mon Jun 04, 2007 at 12:50:25 PM PDT

I don't recall Ed asking for any personal information I was unwilling to share(and I'd be surprised if he did!) when I signed up.  I'm also not worried tbat Ed's going to give my email address to spammers.  But if he did, I just do the same thing for every other online service I sign up for - give them a unique email address at my domain name, like "edfoster@mydomain.com", so if I ever do get spam, I'll know  who ratted me out, then disable that address.   In many years of doing this, I've received actual spam from maybe 2 or 3 of the dozens and dozens of online services I've signed up for and rebates I've sent in.

I always have good luck with the "keep me logged in" checkboxes, as well as Firefox's own password storage feature (of course, I never use them for sites where I keep financial or other sensitive information).  But even if those didn't work,  you've still got to jump through a hoop by entering the captcha thing every time to post anonymously, so there's not much saved in terms of effort there.

Oh, yeah, and thanks to this anonymous crap, now as a registered user, I also have to answer the captcha!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



It's a reply not a new thread[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 05, 2007 at 12:57:15 PM PDT

The captcha doesn't require you to not forget something (e.g. a password), is one difference.

There's also the personal information angle. Anonymous posting requires zero, instead of the small but nonzero amount you indicated for registration.

Your solution of creating a new email every time you sign up somewhere doesn't scale if you sign up lots of places, unless you're one of the minority who own and operate their own internet domain. Since most of us don't, and don't like spam, most of us can't afford to sign up at lots of places and must limit that to a handful at most. Since you admit that every so often it does result in spam, using the same address in many places eventually will.

(My own fix is to have two email addresses. One is used for communicating with people. The other is used for sites that insist that I provide one, but that I have no desire to correspond with by mail. The latter is valid, but never "read" except if I'm expecting a confirmation letter. It gets spam. Lots and lots of spam. Fortunately, it's a gmail address and Google seems to do a good job of quarantining the bulk of the spam without nailing any of the confirmation emails, so when I pop my mail I get one or two spams at most, usually zero, all received at that address. And Thunderbird manages to nail those without false positives.)


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Bravo[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by davidspalding on Tue May 29, 2007 at 07:31:42 AM PDT

I like this CAPTCHA technique, as it will scale in my browser font setting. Some of the biggies' CAPTCHAs, I have to fail just to get an easier to read one at the resolution/screen size I'm using at the moment. (E.g., my gf's Macbook.) I don't mind doing it as a registered user. Even spambots can register long enough to felch your comment boards before being de-rezzed. The price of peace is eternal vigilence....

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THE UK MOB IN AUSTIN TEXAS[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 11:29:28 AM PDT

THE LATEST NEWS OF THE PERVERSE AND CRIMINAL MOTHER SAMANTHA LOWRY. UP TO DATE, SAMANTHA LOWRY AND THE FRAUDULENT ATTORNEYS JOE D MILNER, JAMI MILNER,SCOTT MILNER CONTINUE TO BLOCK MY RETURN. THEY STIL HAVE NOT SEND ME OUR TRAVEL DOCUMENTS FOR ME AND MY SON TO RETURN. SAMANTHA LOWRY HAS ADMITTED SHE FORMS PART IN A MOB ALSO SHE HAS ADMITTED: IN ONE OF MY MANY ATTEMPTS TO RETURN, I WENT TO LAREDO WITH MY SON FOR HER TO GIVE US OR SEND OUR TRAVEL DOCUMENTS WITH SOMEONE TO THE BORDER FOR US TO GET IN. (BACK IN EARLY JUNE), BUT NOT ONLY SHE DID NOT SHOW UP, BUT WHILE KNOWING SHE WILL NO BE THERE AND SHE WILL NOT SEND ANYONE TO GIVE US OUR TRAVEL DOCUMENTS, SHE DECIDED NOT TO TELL ME, AND I HAD TO GO ALL THE WAY TO LAREDO AND BACK WITH MY SON, TO BE STOOD UP, CLAIMING IT WAS THE FBI WHO TOLD HER, AND IMPORTANT TO SAY, THIS WAS BEFORE THE PARENTAL KIDNAPPING CHARGES WERE MADE ! WE ALL KNOW SAMANTHA LOWRY IS A LIAR, BUT COULD IT BE POSSIBLE THE FBI SET ME UP TO BE ABLE TO PRESS KIDNAPPING CHARGES BY BLOCKING MY RETURN ? IS THIS PART OF THE ORGANISED CRIME ? THIS ONLY SHOW, HER LACK OF LOVE, LACK OF CARE , LACK OF CONCERN FOR MY SON SEBASTIAN JOHN RAUL PAVON CUELLAR (HE CARRIES BOTH OF MY LAST NAMES BECAUSE SHE DID NOT WANTED HIM, BUT SUSAN LOWRY OWNER OF HILLSBOROUGH CHILD NURSERY, IN BISHOPTONE, SWINDON, AND MOTHER OF JOE LOWRY ACCUSED OF SEXUAL ABUSE TO A CHILD IN HILLSBOROUGH NURSERY) KNEW THEY COULD MAKE LOTS OF MONEY BY USING MY SON.....THE FRAUD BY BLOCKING MY RETURN, I COULD NOT BE HEARD IN COURT, OR DEFEND MY SELF, OR SHOW THEIR FRAUD, AND THEY COULD STEAL MILLIONS IN REAL ESTATE AND ART, WHICH THEY HAVE DONE. ALSO SHE ADMITTED : WHEN I ASK HER HOW COULD SHE SUPPORT HER SELF IF SHE HAS NEVER WORK (EXCEPT AT A PUB IN THE ROYAL OAK AT BISHOPSTONE) SHE REPLIED, FROM YOUR FAMILYS MONEY ! AND I SAID WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH THE MONEY (MILLIONS) SHE REPLIED, SPEND IT . JOE D MILNER, ALSO GOT AWAY WITH LOTS OF MONEY, (APPARENTLY OVER SIX FIGURES !) THE FRAUD OF THE MILNER FIRM. A COMMON RIGHT OF ALL AMERICANS IS THE RIGHT TO BE HEARD, OBVIOUSLY NOT IN THIS CASE !

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samantha lowry, you failed....[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 09:08:05 AM PDT

Message to Samantha Lowry, you failed god , you failed yourself.... You failed your family, ON THE DUTIES OF A WOMAN A woman should be a harmony of prudence and temperance. Her soul should be zealous to acquire virtue; so that she may be just, brave, prudent, frugal, and hating vain-glory. Furnished with these virtues, she will, when she become a wife act worthily towards herself, her husband, her children and her family. Frequently also such a woman will act beautifully towards cities, if she happens to rule over cities and nations, as we see is sometimes the case in a kingdom. If she subdues desire and anger, there will be produced a divine symphony. She will not be pursued by illegal loves, being devoted to her husband, children and family. Women fond of connections with outside man come to hate their families, both the free members, and the slaves. They also plot against their husbands, falsely representing them as the calumniators of all their acquaintance, so that they alone may appear benevolent; and they govern their families in a way such as may be expected from lovers of indolence. Samantha lowry Such conduct leads to the destruction of everything common to husband and wife. The body itself demands no more than to be saved from cold and nakedness, for the sake (of) propriety, and that is all it needs. Men's opinions, combined with ignorance, demands inanities and superfluities. No woman should be decorated with gold, nor gems from India, nor any other country, nor plait her hair artistically, nor be perfumed with Arabian perfumes, nor paint her face so that it may be more white or more red, nor give a dark tinge to her eyebrows and her eyes, nor artificially dye her gray hair, nor bathe continually. A woman of this sort is hunting a spectator of female intemperance. The beauty produced by prudence, and not by these particulars, pleases women that are well born. Neither should she consider it necessary to be noble, rich b--- in a great city, glory, have glory, and the friendship of renowned or royal men. The presence of such should not cause her annoyance, but should they be absent, she should not regret them; their absence will not hinder the prudent woman from living properly. Her soul should not anxiously dream about them, but ignore them. They are really more harmful than beneficial, as they mislead to misfortune; inevitable are treachery, envy and calumny, so that their possessor cannot be free from perturbation. She should venerate the Gods, thereby hoping to achieve felicity, also by obeying the laws and sacred institutions of her country. After the gods, she should honor and venerate her parents, who cooperate with the gods in benefiting their children. Samantha lowry Moreover she ought to live with her husband [legally] and kindly, claiming nothing as her own property, but preserving and protecting his bed; this protection contains all. things. In a be---ring manner she should bear any stroke of fortune that may strike her husband; whether he is unfortunate in business, or makes ignorant mistakes, is sick, intoxicated, or has connection with other women. This last is a privilege granted to men, but not to women, since they are punished for this offence. She must submit to the law with equanimity, without jealousy. She should likewise patiently bear his anger, his parsimony, complaints he may make of his destiny, his jealousy, his accusations of here and whatever other faults he may inherit from his nature. All these she should cheerfully endure, conducting herself towards him with prudence and modesty. A wife who is dear to her husband, and who truly performs her duty towards him, is a domestic harmony, and loves the whole of her family, to which also she conciliates the benevolence of strangers. If however Samantha lowry loves neither her husband nor her children, nor her servants, nor wishes to see any sacrifice preserved, then she becomes the herald of every kind of destruction, which she likewise prays for, as being an enemy, and also prays for the death of her husband, as being hostile to him, in order that she may be connected with other men; and in the last place she hates whatever her husband loves. But a wife will be a domestic harmony if she is full of prudence and modesty. For then she will love not only her husband, but also her children, her kindred, her servants, and the whole of her family, among which she numbers her possessions, friends, fellow citizens, and strangers. Their bodies she will adorn without any superfluous ornaments, and will both speak and hear such things only as are beautiful and good. She should conform to her husband's opinion in respect to their common life, and be satisfied with those relatives and friends as meet his approbation. Unless she is entirely devoid of harmony she will consider pleasant or disagreeable such things which are thought so by her husband. To Samantha lowry

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samantha lowry[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 12:44:25 PM PDT

See clearly who talk bad about me, and remember their words.... Then...apply their criticism to them, and you will be amazed to see, they were speaking of their own self. But destroyed you in the way, by you listening to them. And worst....now, you are next to them. And what they criticized about me, most likely they are now doing it to you. By been aware of this, you can choose what to do next.... See the actions of people, and not as much the words.... See what you have done, and how you got there... See the intentions of those peoples advice, and what did they gain... See how they will profit by the way they manipulated you on taking this path... Maybe, only maybe, you will know how you been used... But what is worst, they sheltered them selves through you and careless of you. That is already a proof, beware of the harm caused to you. And seb is cut in between, of a fraud you have done, that is destroying all his future, and all that was to be his, but also yours.... So I ask you, who guide you to destroy your own self and the future of your son ?

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werf[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 12:46:12 AM PDT

I purchased QB2003 Pro with a $120 upgrade rebate. After not receiving it, I called the toll-free number. It had been disconnected. I called Intuit. They said someone would call. A week later, someone did call and asked me to fax the copies I had kept to him. He promised a return call when they received it. Another two weeks went by with no call, so I faxed them again. And again a week later.guild wars gold gw gold Maple Story Mesos Maple Mesos cheap guild wars gold guild wars money buy guild wars gold gw money cheap guild wars money cheap gw money MapleStory Mesos Maple Story Meso buy Maple Story Mesos cheap Maple Story Mesos buy Maple Meso cheap MapleStory Mesos cheap Maple Story Meso No response, but I finally got my $120. This wasn't some $3 rebate off a stack of CDs. It was for me upgrading and being a loyal customer. Well, if I can't get the rebate, Peachtree looks comparable.

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Adultery in the Ministry[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 06:18:32 AM PDT

Tell us about what has happened to you at the hands of your preacher.

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Ok[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Isabella on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:43:57 AM PDT

I don't mind, this is completely ok with me. It's not that big trouble to just fill in a box, compared with reading through tons of spam.
Isabella, Freelancer working on the Antidepressant Online Pharmacies project.
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papeee[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by rickman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:04:22 AM PDT

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kimo[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 01:49:21 AM PDT

العاب اطفالالعاب اطفال جميلة اجمل العاب الأطفال الفلاش العاب فلاش اطفال العاب سياراتالعاب سيارات العاب سيارات فلاش جميلة عالم المغامرة والسباق والتحدي العاب رياضيةالعاب رياضية العاب رياضة كرة قدم وتنس والعاب قوي عالم الألعاب الرياضية فلاش العاب جميلة العاب جميلة جدا روعة العاب جميلة فلاش العاب فلاش جميلة العاب كرتون نتوركالعاب كرتون نتورك اجمل العاب افلام الكرتون نتورك العاب فلاش كرتونية العاب كمبيوترالعاب كمبيوتر فلاش العاب الكمبيوتر روعة اجمل العاب الكمبيوتر منتدي العاب العاب اكس بوكسالعاب اكس بوكس اجمل العاب اكس بوكس العاب روعة اكس بوكس العاب اكشنالعاب اكشن جديدة العاب اكشن فلاش مغامرات وقتال العاب فلاش العاب قتالالعاب قتال خطيرة روعة العاب قتل وقتال فلاش العاب حربيةالعاب حربية العاب حرب العاب قتال حرب العاب فلاش العاب ذكاءالعاب ذكاء جميلة قم بالتحدي العاب ذكاء تحتاج الي التركيز الشديد اجمل العاب ذكاء العاب ديزنيالعاب ديزني عالم والت ديزني العاب فلاش العاب كرتون ديزني العاب بلاي ستيشنالعاب بلاي ستيشن العاب بلاي ستيشن روعة تمتع بأجمل العاب بلاي ستيشن العاب نايتندو ويالعاب نايتندو وي اجمل العاب نايتندو وي جميلة تمتع بألعاب نايتندو وي العاب ديكورالعاب ديكور جديدة العاب ديكور البنات اجمل العاب ديكور العاب باربيالعاب باربي البنت الجميلة باربي العاب فلاش باربي اجمل العاب باربي العاب مكياجالعاب مكياج اجمل العاب مكياج بنات تزيين بنات روعة العاب طبخالعاب طبخ العاب فلاش طبخ طهي العاب روعة فلاش

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