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A Matter of Trust

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 08:38:52 AM PDT

With some good reasons on both sides, software companies and software customers don't always trust each other a whole lot. But the more I delve into this Wall Data vs. the LA County Sheriff case, the more I'm struck by the fact that one side pays most of the price for this mutual mistrust.


As I described in Tuesday's story, in 2002 NetManage sued the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department (LASD) for copyright infringement. The ghost copies, even if unused, of its subsidiary Wall Data's Rumba application that had been created by LASD's drive imaging software deployment were illegal copies, said the plaintiff. The defense argued that LASD's use of the software was legal under fair use and Section 117 "essential step" provisions of copyright law.

Wall Data vs. the LA County Sheriff went to jury in 2003 and Wall Data won, as NetManage trumpeted at the time. The LASD appealed, and in May of this year the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit issued its decision affirming the lower court in all respects.

A mail list to which I subscribe had a brief note about this case, and I was intrigued enough to go read the court's opinion. At first I was disappointed, because as described the case sounded like it had little to do with fair use. In particular, the court's emphasis that the LASD's setup meant that "those users who needed to use Rumba could access the software at whatever computer they were assigned" made it sound like the sheriffs were actually using the licenses in concurrent fashion. In other words, no more than the 3,663 licenses the LASD would be in use at any one moment in time, but Rumba could be used on all 6,007 computers. If that was the case, NetManage/Wall Data would certainly be justified in wanting at least a little more money, since most software publishers -- if they offer concurrent licenses at all -- charge more for them.

But then I noticed a footnote in the court's opinion that briefly mentioned the LASD's "logical units" (LU) system that I described in Tuesday's story. That sure didn't sound like concurrent usage, and, along with a few other things, it seemed to contradict the court's basic argument for finding LASD gained commercially from the ghost copies of Rumba. It was obvious I was going to have to dig a little deeper if I was to find out anything about the reality behind this case.

So I have now talked to the lead attorneys for both parties and read the arguments they've filed with the Ninth Circuit (including brief and counter brief in a defense petition for an "en banc" re-hearing that is now before the court). As you would expect, the two sides don't sound like they're describing the same universe, much less the same case. But I think we can boil the basic points of dispute down to some discussable issues.

First off, both sides do agree that the LASD was not using its licenses as concurrent ones. The LASD claims that its LU system for restricting access to the mainframe guaranteed that none of the ghost copies of Rumba were used. Wall Data's attorney concedes that might be true, but it doesn't matter because the creation of the extra copies left it to the Sheriffs' discretion whether to use them or not. "The power to use what they call the ghost copies was in their hands," says Tod L. Gamlen of Baker & McKenzie. "Getting an LU assigned to any workstation at one of their facilities would just take a few quick steps. The LU system wasn't set up to restrict Rumba licensing - it was set up for their own reasons. How are we going to know if they're actually using 2,000 licenses, 4,000 licenses or what?"

In other words, even the police can't be trusted to police themselves when it comes to software licensing. And it's important to note, for any IT manager or small businessperson who might not be aware of it, that is exactly the philosophy of the software industry when it comes to licensing enforcement. Should the BSA ever show up on your doorstep with a court order to audit your computers, it won't matter to them if a copy of a program is unused. Heck, an old copy of Word on a corrupt hard drive thrown in the dumpster will count against you.

Speaking of trust, I also put in a call to NetManage, Wall Data's parent, to see if they'd care to comment about their decision to sue a customer over unused copies of software. "It's pretty standard in the industry to license on an installed basis, not a use basis," said Mike Peckham, senior VP of finance for NetManage. "My analogy is that it's as if you bought a desk and chair for a worker you didn't wind up hiring - would you expect your money back on the desk and chair because you didn't use them? From our standpoint, if a customer agrees to license and then chooses to go outside the terms of that license without anything in writing, the court is just saying they can't do so."

Well, there's no doubt that is the standard thinking within the software industry about how licensing should work. But should it? And what about fair use and other principles of copyright law that are supposed to provide a little balance? While I promise I'm not going to keep writing about this case forever, we are not quite yet ready to bring this story to an end. But if you haven't yet figured out yet who the real culprit is, let me give you a clue: the EULA done it.

< The Sheriff and Drive Imaging: A Case Study | The Long Arm of the EULA >


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A Matter of Trust | 40 comments (40 topical) | Post A Comment
Copyright,, not licensing[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 11:20:27 AM PDT

You keep talking about licensing, but my reading of the decision was that simple copyright violation was the heart of the matter.

Let's use books instead of software. Suppose they bought 3,000 copies of some book. However, they wanted to have a book on each desk, even if it would never be used. So they Xeroxed 3000 more copies of the book themselves. In order to make sure they didn't use more books than they'd bought, they locked the books to the desks and only gave out 3,000 keys.

Think that would get them out of a copyright violation for those extra 3,000 books?

The real problem in this case is the lack of a license agreement that would expand their rights beyond the default rights conveyed by purchase of a copyrighted work.

[ Reply to This ]



Dueling Analogies[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Ed Foster on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 12:07:34 PM PDT

I love analogies, so let me offer one that I think is much closer to the actual facts of this case. Let's say you write a book and I want to publish it. We make an agreement that I will publish a limited edition of 5,000 copies while you will retain all copyrights in the work and the publishing rights for future editions. The printer only prints in lots of 10,000 books though, so that's what he delivers to me. I take 5,000 copies and distribute them and lock the others up in a warehouse in case we reach an agreement on a second edition. The book sells well, so I start to negotiate with you to publish a second edition, and I mention that I've got the actual books already printed up. Should you be able to sue me for copyright infringement on the spot? For copyright infringement, mind you, not breach of contract, because breach of contract is not what Wall Data wound up suing over. -- Ed Foster

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Yes and no[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 12:42:24 PM PDT

This really gets into the intricacies of copyright law. As I understand it, you'd technically be in violation and thus could be sued. You had permission to make 5,000 copies and made 10,000.

On a fairness basis, I don't think you've done enough wrong to be liable for the huge copyright penalties.

On an analogy to the original case, if you'd explained about the 10,000 minimum at the time and negotiated what was to happen, you wouldn't now be in a risky situation.
--
Ron

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Re: Yes and no[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Ed Foster on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 05:34:10 PM PDT

I think you're missing the point of my little analogy. Whether I have the right to print 5,000 or 10,000 copies of the book isn't a matter for copyright law -- it's a contract dispute. That's what the Wall Data case really was as well, but Wall Data would probably have lost a breach of contract suit, for reasons I'll be explaining. -- Ed

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Contract vs. Copyright Law[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Lazlo Nibble on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 07:04:51 PM PDT

Whether I have the right to print 5,000 or 10,000 copies of the book isn't a matter for copyright law -- it's a contract dispute.

Absent the contractual agreement with the copyright holder, you have no right to make any copies of the work. If you violate the contract, copyright law applies. The two aren't separable.



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Wrong[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:40:39 AM PDT

Fair use says he can make as many copies as he wants, he just can't distribute them.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Fair use says no such thing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Lazlo Nibble on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 06:04:33 PM PDT

Good luck with that line of argument in a court of law. It's vulnerable on at least three of the four factors used to determine if the use is fair: purpose of the use, how much of the work is being used and the potential effect on market value of the work.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


"Right" Misuse[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by srynas on Tue Aug 15, 2006 at 05:59:55 AM PDT

Our terminology is getting a bit sloppy. The phrase "you have no right to make any copies of the work." is technically incorrect. Copyright law allows the holder of the copyrighted material, under fair use, to make copies without the permission of the copyright holder. It is an allowable use not a right. Additionally please see Section 106 for a listing of exclusive rights that the copyright owner is entitled too. Based on Section 106, the holder of the copyrighted material would be free (allowed) to use the copyrighted material in any manner or use not prohibited by Section 106.

Please see Copyright Law of the United States of America for a review of what the copyright law allows and prohibits. Below is a partial excerpt from Section 107.

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use38

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include --




[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Analogies[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 01:58:58 AM PDT

Your publishing analogy doesn't quite hold water. The agreement was for you to PUBLISH 5000 copies of the book. This 'implies' distribution. The excess copies, locked in your warehouse, can be construed as 'personal' until such time as you and the author reach a distribution agreement. Therefore, there *might* be a breach of contract but no copywrite infringement... until you try to sell/give away the excess copies.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Contract vs copyright[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 04:56:22 AM PDT

If everyone will read his post and replies, you will see that he repeatedly says that based on his analogy he could be in violation of CONTRACT BREACH, NOT COPYRIGHT infringement. Read before you post!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
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vvv[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 07:04:42 AM PDT

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Errata[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 01:06:29 PM PDT

Ed, This is the type of article that you do best. You have two minor typo's in this story that you may want to correct. 1) "Wall Data vs. the LA County Sheriff went to jury in 2003 and Wall Data, " You are missing "won" after the second Wall Data 2) "...access to the mainframe quarantined that none of the ghost copies of Rumba were used." quarantined should perhaps be guaranteed? Analogy - Buy the right to print 100 copies of something, then print 1000 instead. Copyright infringement? Yes, even if only 100 copies were being read at a time. That said, actions like this just emphasize the benefits of open source. Who in their right mind wants to expose their business to these types of tactics, particularly given that (a) keeping track of licenses is difficult (at best), (b) even trying to comply, you fail, and (c) even if you comply, the vendor apparently believes they can change the terms of the deal, unilaterally after the fact with no consideration for you other than continued use of the product (witness M$ tactics). Thanks Ed.

[ Reply to This ]


Re: Errata[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Ed Foster on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 05:20:04 PM PDT

Thanks for spotting those typos -- I've corrected them now. -- Ed

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Nice Marketing Startegy[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 04:18:01 AM PDT

I think this arguement can go on for ever but what i find interesting is that this company is sueing a customer! What does this say to all other potential customers out there. It says "Please use our products but if you make a genuine mistake we will sue the pants off you" not a very clever marketing strategy.....

[ Reply to This ]


Greed[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 04:58:55 AM PDT

Thank you, I was going to say that myself! I sure would not consider doing business with Wall or Netmanage. This is a prime example of what happens when greed trumps common sense. I can almost guarantee you that with limited budgets as they are, other municipalities will think twice before doing business with Wall/Netmanage.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Great Article, i agreee with you[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#42)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 12:38:22 AM PDT

dis j'ai jamais vu de poisson sans ouies........et avec une forme pareille.......Internet Marketing 迷你倉 護膚 .

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Time to test the LASD[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 09:48:18 AM PDT

Whatever happens, I'm just glad that if I pay for one candy bar at a gas station in Los Angeles and walk out with two, that the LASD will not agree to process shoplifting charges against me as long as I return one of them uneaten.

[ Reply to This ]


correction[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 09:51:01 AM PDT

I should have said "Whatever happens, I'm just glad that if I pay for one candy bar at a gas station in Los Angeles and walk out with two, that the LASD will not agree to host me in their prisons following a conviction on shoplifting charges as long as I had returned one of them uneaten."

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Software Sales Tax[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by dbrown3611 on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 11:33:51 AM PDT

Here in the fair state of Nebraska I am required to pay a sales tax on software purchases. This is not the case for a product that is leased (or licensed). This implies that I do actually own the software and am entitled to fair use provisions under copyright law. A ruling to the contrary should require a sales tax refund to my business.

[ Reply to This ]


That wont hold water unfortunately[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 06:09:40 PM PDT

What they will tell you is that you have purchased a license, which because its a purchase, it is taxable. You own the license to use the software but not the software itself. That it sucks doesn't enter into it. Like some of the others have said. Use an open-source replacement. The only power we have is with our wallets. If enough people stopped purchasing or leasing this ridiculously over-encumbered software the companies would either get the message or tank! And good riddance!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Find a more agreeable vendor[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 11:51:03 AM PDT

There are other products available that do what Wall Data's product does. I'm certain that the LAPD can get more agreeable terms from one of the vendors in writing. If it were my shop we would never use a Netmanage product again.

[ Reply to This ]


erhg[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
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Nokia[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
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[ Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


kral[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
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HRZbq[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by hrzBQ on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 06:46:08 PM PDT

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