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The Gripe Line, the GripeLog, InfoWorld, and Me

By Ed Foster, Section Columns
Posted on Mon May 08, 2006 at 01:26:50 AM PDT

As today marks the third anniversary of my first GripeLog column, it seems like a good time to let my weblog readers know that they're going to be seeing a few changes soon. The GripeLog and the InfoWorld Gripe Line, which have been appearing under two separate banners even though they are largely the same content, are going to be merged. Together again, as it were, but I think you'll find that -- whichever site you have been using -- it will soon be easier to use, more interesting, and even more effective in dealing with the vendors that bug you.


On May 8, 2003, I thought I was cutting all ties with InfoWorld, and it was most certainly cutting all ties with me. Not for the first time, either, because in the 13-plus years I've been writing the Gripe Line and the 20-plus years I've been associated with InfoWorld, there have definitely been some ups and downs in our relationship. Fortunately, three years ago cooler heads prevailed, and InfoWorld and I eventually worked out a deal whereby I continued to provide InfoWorld a feed of my GripeLog content for the Gripe Line. It's occasionally been a bit confusing -- for me, for InfoWorld, and sometimes, unfortunately, even for my readers -- but we've managed to keep it going.

We mean to put an end to that confusion in the next few weeks when we roll out the new InfoWorld Gripe Line by Ed Foster. And I am thrilled to be able to tell you that nothing my readers like about the Gripe Line or the GripeLog is going to be lost in the process. OK, inevitably there will be some bugs and glitches, but we'll work those out. If it looks to you like something's missing, let me know and we'll fix it.

One very big reason for putting these two weblogs together again is to make it possible for readers to post their comments about my stories in one place. The smartest decision I made three years ago was to go with webmaster Jeff Foster's recommendation that we implement a blogging system that would allow readers to have real-time threaded discussions, because those comments invariably add a great deal of value to what I write. So we will be implementing the same system for reader posts in the new blog, and those of you who have log-ins on the GripeLog will find they still work the same way. And Gripe Line readers will no longer have to click on a "Read and post comments ..." link at the end of the story, because the comments will be right there.

More importantly, though, combining the Gripe Line and the GripeLog will make for a voice that's even harder for vendors to ignore. As I'll discuss in more detail tomorrow, we've had a good string of successes in that regard in recent months, but we can always use more. And the more you voice your concerns over vendor practices that you find unacceptable, the more success we will have at calling them to account.

One thing you can be sure won't change is that it will still be the reader's voice that counts. I said earlier that cooler heads kept me and InfoWorld keep from going our separate ways three years ago. Who did those cooler heads belong to, do you suppose? That's right -- InfoWorld and Gripe Line readers. InfoWorld and I both thank you for steering us right then, and we both hope you will continue to do so.

--------------------

Post your comments about this column below or write me directly at Foster@gripe2ed.com. To receive this column every week in my free e-mail newsletter, please go to my subscription page and follow the instructions to opt-in for the EdFoster mailing list.

< Serious Reservations About Online Bargains | Following Up on Follow-up Promises >


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The Gripe Line, the GripeLog, InfoWorld, and Me | 97 comments (97 topical) | Post A Comment
Hmm....[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 08, 2006 at 09:16:20 AM PDT

Well, I hope this is a positive step for you both, but that shakeup back in 2003 led me to cancel my subscription and I still don't plan on trying to restart it. Best of Luck, David

[ Reply to This ]


Likewise[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 08, 2006 at 11:18:34 AM PDT

Likewise here. In 2003 IW dropped nearly everything I found useful, so I dropped them. And yet, years later, after cancelling, refusing to renew, etc., they *still* send me the darn magazine. Since it's their dime, I don't worry too much about it. I hope this works out well for you, Ed. Dealing with IW and their websites has left a sour taste in my mouth, and I don't want to see that relationship bring down the quality of what you have going here.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


InfoWorld Shake-Up[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 09, 2006 at 11:12:14 AM PDT

Ha! I wondered if there were others like me. I always enjoyed your Gripe Line articles, but was so upset with the InfoWorld shake-up a couple of years ago, that I kept calling to insist they stop sending me the regular mailing. Most of the features I liked about IW were removed - so I cancelled - but kept my subscription to your Gripe Line. Thanks for the great work, Ed!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Me Too[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by NorthFork on Fri May 12, 2006 at 09:32:44 AM PDT

Ha! I also dropped infoworld when they dropped you.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


InfoWorld[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 16, 2006 at 11:25:57 AM PDT

When Infoworld dropped all their better (in my opinion) writers, including Ed, I let my subscription lapse.  What I did was sign up for the email versions that many of those writers put out.

Then InfoWorld started crimping down on what each writer emailed out, with links to finish the story on their website.  There, not only do I rack up "internet time" at work, I get bombarded with advertising from InfoWorld.

Personally, I'm about to drop all of the emails I get from InfoWorld because of this.  If the cancellation process let me tell them exactly why their mis-management of their writers led me to cancel, I would have already.

Maybe a InfoWorld Gripe entry would help.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Keep the gripe2ed format[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 08, 2006 at 10:48:31 AM PDT

I hope the surviving email looks like yours and not Infoworld's, with its irritating teaser and embedded ads.

[ Reply to This ]


Email format[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 08, 2006 at 11:54:57 AM PDT

I second this. I still subscribe to the InfoWorld magazine but have stopped subscribing to any of their email newsletters. Forcing you to go to InfoWorld's web site and the ads made it just not worth it. Please don't change to their email newsletter format.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Both Newsletters Will Continue[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Ed Foster on Mon May 08, 2006 at 12:39:18 PM PDT

There are no plans to discontinue either of the two email newsletters. They provide two different windows on my content and you can subscribe to whichever one you like, or both. -- Ed

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Infoworld[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Enoemos on Mon May 08, 2006 at 01:14:16 PM PDT

I'm glad the original format will stay, because the InfoWorld one is a nuisance. It only shows a couple of paragraphs, and you have to click a link to get the rest of the article. At which time you're bombarded with blinking ads and it takes a few seconds to click the "printer friendly" link (at least that still exists) to get rid of them.

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Blinking ads[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by rodak on Mon May 08, 2006 at 01:57:13 PM PDT

Firefox + Adblock = ad-free web browsing. (Don't worry, Ed, I only block the annoying ads, and I'd never buy anything from a company that put up annoying ads anyway)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Re: Blinking Ads[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Ed Foster on Mon May 08, 2006 at 10:50:23 PM PDT

Well, I use Firefox to block annoying ads, too. But I should point out, not just for me and InfoWorld but for all sites that provide free content, that if everybody blocks all the ads all the time, all that free content is going to dry up eventually. -- Ed

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Not entierly true[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Jarulf on Tue May 09, 2006 at 12:49:46 AM PDT

If true, that would mean there should be no site out there that is free and have no adds. Since such sites exists, it is not a completely true statement. In addition, I would say most such sites would actually emerge if sites with adds got less common.

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Re: Not entirely true[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Ed Foster on Tue May 09, 2006 at 11:06:22 AM PDT

There are millions of ad-free sites already -- they're called blogs. But you'll see that the more popular blogs almost always at least have Google ads or something. Even if the content producers aren't trying to make a living off the site, the hosting costs go up as you need more bandwidth for that traffic. It's very hard to make it on subscriptions or donations alone.

Long before the Internet took off, ad revenue was responsible for funding most of the content you would read. Hey, at least 90 percent of the income I've made in my career has come from ads. Before the Internet, people didn't get upset about the ads in newspapers and magazines, except for the occasional obnoxious one, because they could ignore them or not as they chose. So why do people get so upset about ads on the Internet which, except for the occasional obnoxious one, they are still perfectly free to ignore? It really does puzzle me, so I'd love to hear folks thoughts on this.

Ed



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Why I hate Ads[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 09, 2006 at 11:21:41 AM PDT

I was moved to block ads (I do it the old fashioned way by modifying my hosts file to redirect ad servers to local) because I was annoyed by the slow servers. It's bad enough they want to use my bandwidth to shove X10 pop-ups at me, but when the darned servers are so overloaded that I'm stuck waiting for them to respond before the page will display the content I want to read, I have to do something.
So, now whenever a page won't display and I see it's some ad server that has me stuck... I hit my shortcut to edit my hosts file and redirect them 127.0.0.1 and hit reload... and boom... up comes the page.
-- David Lari

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Slow ad loading[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 09, 2006 at 04:06:37 PM PDT

There's two problems here.

One is Web sites that gratuitously make ad banners load synchronously rather than asynchronously; otherwise you could just scroll down and read the content. Then the ad servers have an incentive to not be slow -- if they are, the ad is scrolled out of view before it's more than a blank rectangle on the screen, and never gets viewed! Instead, they presumably strong-arm site operators to use evil Javashit to make the page load pause until the banner is done loading or has aborted, and they then have no incentive to make their servers fast.

A bunch of related evil tactics, all using Javashit:
* Disguising link destinations (Firefox has a
  setting to stop this)
* Messing with the right click menu functionality
  (ditto)
* Making shift-click selection not work (Firefox
  doesn't help here)
* Popups (Firefox is a partial help; popups
  triggered by something other than page load
  aren't stopped, and neither are those fake
  popups that use flash or JS to draw directly to
  the framebuffer, and which have a nasty habit of
  making a page unreadable and unusable.
  Photobucket provides an example: get an account
  and upload an image. When you double click an
  item in the file chooser, there's a roughly 33%
  chance a new browser window opens and
  immediately goes to some full-screen ad page.
  Unfortunately I don't see how to avoid layer
  based popups and popups triggered by form
  filling/other user action without blocking
  desirable events, such as web forum links that
  open the link in a new window so you don't lose
  your place in the forum.)
Of course, sites that abuse Javashit also tend to replace ordinary "a href=foo.html" links with "a href=# onClick=blahblah" gratuitously to punish people who disable Javashit; the site becomes unnavigable, even though there's nothing about the site that means it couldn't be made navigable with JS disabled. Even worse, some refuse to render any content at all if you turn off JS, just giving some bullshit about how JS is required. I know enough about computers and the Web to know that to display some text, some inline images (including ad banners), and some functioning links does not require JS in any way shape or form; they want to make you use it so they can spam you, pop up at you, slip you some spyware, try to extract your email address to spam, and so on. Firefox will protect you from most of these abuses, but it doesn't stop layer-based popups, popups triggered by filling in a form field (e.g. Photobucket's image upload form), or scripts that interfere with selecting and copying text off a page (have these arseholes not heard of "fair use", not to mention "resistance is futile, retard" and "It's my web browser and it's my computer!"? I will have my excerpt if I want it, over your javashit's dead body if necessary, also known as the stuff displayed by "View ... Page Source", so there's really NO FRIGGING POINT, it just ANNOYS ME!!! GRR!!!)

On the other hand, my experience blocking ads via hosts file is less than stellar. There are two problems:
* When page loading is deliberately and
  gratuitously modified to pause until an ad
  finishes loading, the result is invariably very
  slow page loads, because it waits ages for the
  loopback connection to timeout on my stealth
  firewall.
* When page loading is yadda yadda and an ad fails
  to load entirely, in some broken Web browsers
  (*cough*IE*cough*) the whole page load aborts.
  (This is fixed by using Firefox.)
* The proliferation of zillions of redundant
  ad5838584654.357832486584.six-zillion-and-three.spammer.com
  ad servers means that to put a dent in it you'd
  need six zillion entries in your hosts file. And
  when you have six zillion entries in your hosts
  file, every name lookup takes six zillion hours,
  because Winblows is too stupid and brain-damaged
  to actually cache the fricking results of name
  lookups and uses bogo-sort somewhere in the code
  that reads the host file; meanwhile host file
  parsing and name lookup code are being
  overhauled with even more "necessary security
  checks" in Windows Vista betas while Madison
  Ave. execs pass more thick wads of C-notes to
  Bill G. under the table at the local pub after
  their weekly chummy 18 holes at Pebble Beach.

Ad blocking that stops the browser requesting the stupid crap in the first place is, IMO, the only solution; that and staying the hell away from the pre-lubed^H^H^H^H^Hinstalled MS rectum^H^H^H^H^H^Hbrowser, that is. (And their other orifices^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hnetwork tools too, particularly Outlook, the feature set of which Spamford and his ilk and companies like 180 solutions no doubt paid a pretty penny for...)

More generally, it's time to collectively wean ourselves off MS and all other corporate crap when it comes to software. Corporations that make software have split incentives these days and can't be trusted. More and more, the feature set of software and even of entertainment hardware (game consoles, video players, widescreen TVs) is being decided not by the wishes of customers but by big businesses with consumer-hostile agendas, from the RIAA and MPAA to advertisers and spyware vendors and the government and their cronies.

The decision we will face in the next decade is nothing less than whether the ultimate result of technological advance will be individual empowerment or the realization of Orwell's worst fears. Accelerating change and the disturbing trends in everything from DRM to MS Vista make it plain that we have at most 10 years to take back our computers, if that. At the end of that time, individuals will be empowered again in participatory democracy and economics ... or we will be permanent residents of the Matrix, existing only to serve a vast government-industrial machine that demands to be fed with ever more docile consumers whose only choice will be to buy from the "company store" and work for the company (there will, for all intents and purposes, be only the one) or to starve (or be labeled a "terrorist" and shot on sight by the FBI, the metro police, or some other law enforcement agency the corporation has purchased). Our current ability to walk out in the woods without being metered by the footstep, read books without paying by the page, pirate music without too much risk of a lawsuit, speak our minds and be heard, tape shows and fast-forward the commercials, block internet ads, uninstall things on our own computers, and so on will all disappear. If we make the wrong choice in the next ten years, then by 2040 there won't be an unowned place or person on the planet. A romance novel will cost you a dollar a page, and you'll have to pay every time you reread it. You won't be able to visit Yosemite Park; you will be able to pay an arm and a leg a day to look around a cheerily-redecorated, rubber-surfaced subset of something that vaguely resembles it but is named Disneywood Park West instead. Trying to borrow someone else's CD will get you ten to fifteen; actually burning a mix will get you the chair, on trumped-up terrorism charges as a grave threat to national security who tried to undermine the economy. Question official doctrine on 9/11 and your question mysteriously disappears; anywhere copies of it got, something deletes it, and everyone denies ever having read it. To do otherwise risks imprisonment, or at least being muted -- all your speech, writings, etc. made to disappear, past and future, thanks to Fritz chips mandated in all technology.

I don't want to see this happen. If it does, I'll wander off into the woods and say to hell with so-called civilization. When they sell the last bit of wilderness and show up demanding I pay back rent and have a Fritz chip implanted in my cerebrum so they can retroactively erase anything they don't want me remembering, such as that we were free once, I'll kill myself. I will not become an inmate of City 17.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Use NoScript[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 11, 2006 at 11:18:43 AM PDT

Use the NoScript plugin to Firefox to eliminate Javajunk problems with websites for good. The majority of informational websites work just fine without it, and you can turn scripting on for the current website with just one click. (It, in fact was what finally switched me to Firefox from IE.) This also cuts down on the most common place for Firefox vunrabilities, making it a lot less likely to get spyware.

Flash is a virus; it's only purpose is to create annoying valueless animations. I've never loaded it onto my systems and I never will. (I understand that it is going to come preloaded on Windows in the future - another good reason to stick with Windows 2000.) Any site that requires it is a site not worth visiting. Don't even *think* of having it in Firefox (leave it in IE if you have to use it occassionally; you'll remember you're going to the dark side).

To answer Ed's original question, the problem for me is slowness. CNN had some ad mechanism that made their pages take 20-40 seconds to load; that was interfering with reading the news. After I installed NoScript, that dropped to 5-10 seconds. There are still ads, but the obnoxious and slow ones are gone.

Google ads are just fine; even graphic ads are fine if they keep to a reasonable loading time. I'm used to ignoring that. But blasting popup pages in front of everything (like the Dilbert site did until I installed NoScript) is way beyond the pale. Randy.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Amen to everything here.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#61)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 13, 2006 at 10:36:58 AM PDT

I couldn't agree more with your take on the present and future. I hate Java, blinking ads, and Macromedia Shockwave crap. So unnecessary for consumer, so exploited by commercial concerns. One day I might just turn off my computer for good. The freedom of that is becoming clarified daily. Well put. B.Watson

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#66)
by maderikapapa on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:35:46 PM PDT

SEXエロセックスセックスセフレセックスセックスセフレ逆援不倫熟女風俗アダルト人妻エッチ素人エロ人妻不倫童貞童貞童貞エロおまんこ童貞童貞おっぱいセフレ出会い人妻エッチアダルトSEX出会いナンパアダルトエロ風俗オナニー熟女出会い不倫巨乳スワッピングセックス

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#69)
by maderikapapa on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 05:00:18 AM PDT

風俗不倫出会いエッチ出会い熟女風俗出会いセックス熟女童貞セフレ人妻素人アダルト巨乳アダルトエロおっぱいエッチハメ撮りセックスエロセックス人妻エッチ不倫エッチエロセックスセフレ出会い逆援不倫童貞熟女人妻

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#72)
by maderikapapa on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 09:48:53 PM PDT

アダルトエロ人妻エロSEXセフレセックスアダルトおっぱい不倫熟女風俗セックスアダルト童貞人妻おっぱいセフレ熟女セックス出会い人妻セフレ熟女オナニーおまんこセフレおっぱい人妻熟女エロセックスエロエッチ人妻セックスアダルト巨乳出会いおっぱいおまんこ熟女アダルトエッチエロアダルト人妻セックスエッチアダルトセックスアダルト

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#76)
by maderikapapa on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:41:42 AM PDT

出会いを全国で楽しめる!出会い 北海道では寒い季節を二人っきり 391;温めて出会い 関東で都会でしか味わえない素 973;な愛を出会い 甲信越では気軽なセフレ関係を出会い 北陸では真面目な出会いを出会い 東海では恋探しを出会い出会い 関西では笑いありの大好きな彼 663;を出会い 四国では思いでに残るような恋 859;を出会い 九州では熱い出逢いをどうぞ全 269;での出会いはココで求めよ うエロ画像やエロサイトを無料で 372;紹介!エッチな恋人探しも提供しており人妻との夢のセックスライフが実現アダルトな思いを満たすなら当アダ 523;トサイトで決定!巨乳な女達が男性を弄ぶ出会いなども紹介しておりご近所 908;索機能付きの出会いサイト で柔らかいおっぱいおまんこを思う存分触ってください熟女とのアダルトな一夜などエッチ願望を満たせるエロサイトはココしかないアダルトを無料で楽しみ人妻との不倫セックスなど出会いある毎日をお過ごしくださ 356;

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#82)
by maderikapapa on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:34:59 AM PDT

セックス好きな大人達のセックス募集サイトセックスフレンドと遊べるセックスの仕方ノウハウをココでゲ 483;トオナニー好きな女の子達のオナニー写メを無料でゲットオナニー動画やオナニー掲示板でオナニーするオナニー画像を無料DL出会いセレブ女性と遊べる出会い系サイトはココで間違いなしA 281;愛人を求めるセレブ達の愛人募集サイトをご紹介!出張ホストサービスなどもセレブ女性 395;は人気で、男性との時間を 凄く求めております。メル友探しをご近所でやれるセフレ募集サイトなどもあり恋愛気分でエッチを楽しめるセフレ募集掲示板で今すぐエロ写メや新着女 615;を探そう

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#85)
by maderikapapa on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 08:27:45 PM PDT

無料エッチ動画エッチアダルトDVDエロ動画エロ動画熟女動画熟女無修正画像中出し動画中出し動画盗撮動画盗撮エロ無料アダルト動画無料アダルトエッチ無修正動画無料動画熟女無料動画アダルトビデオ無料動画中出しアダルト無料アダルト無修正動画無料アダルト動画アダルト無料アダルト動画セックスアダルト動画無料アダルト動画盗撮エロい画像で抜ける極上人妻エ 525;サイトをご紹介!人妻のおっぱいやおまんこ画像 418;無料で見れる!おっぱいおまんこの感触をリアル出会い系サイトで体験!逆援で儲かる出会い系人妻熟女達が童貞男性を刈るエロサイトなど 434;ご紹介

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#88)
by maderikapapa on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 07:52:11 AM PDT

童貞好きなエロい女性達のエロ画像をご紹介セックスしたいご近所でセックスフレンドと過ごせるセフレ系出会いサイトはココで間$ 949;いなしセックス画像なども満載セックスフレンドと逢えるならセフレ交際所で逆援助好きなエッチな奥さん逆援助でSEX体験ができる副業もココ& #12363;らスタート熟女のおまんこは人妻以上風俗でセフレを探すより出会い 995;で決まりアダルトな夜を探して人妻達が出会いを求めておりま 377;エッチな掲示板で素人ホストなども募集中エロい思いを満たせる人妻出会いサイト童貞の初心なしぐさ童貞の真面目さ童貞のエッチは激しいエロいおっぱいやおまんこ童貞さんと童貞を買ってあげる童貞のえっち体験告白や逆援助白書童貞童貞のためのおっぱいサイトセフレ希望の女子高生が出会いを求めて恋愛探し人妻セックス体験談はエッチBBSで書き込んでくださいアダルトSNSではSEX好きな友達や彼女を出会い感覚で楽しめるナンパテクニックなども公開中アダルトサイトで無料動画をゲット童貞には刺激の強いオナニー娘との出会いや熟女との濃厚な愛撫出会い探してみませんか不倫願望の強い巨乳マダム達とセックス講座スワッピングを楽しめる出会いSMマニア的な出会いをお届

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#91)
by maderikapapa on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:36:31 AM PDT

逆援北海道 不倫青森 不倫岩手 不倫宮城 不倫秋田 不倫山形 不倫福島 不倫東京 不倫群馬 不倫埼玉 不倫千葉 不倫茨木 不倫神奈川 不倫栃木 不倫山梨 不倫長野 不倫新潟 不倫岐阜 不倫静岡 不倫愛知 不倫三重 不倫富山 不倫石川 不倫福井 不倫滋賀 不倫京都 不倫大阪 不倫兵庫 不倫奈良 不倫和歌山 不倫鳥取 不倫島根 不倫岡山 不倫広島 不倫山口 不倫徳島 不倫香川 不倫愛媛 不倫高知 不倫福岡 不倫佐賀 不倫長崎 不倫熊本 不倫大分 不倫鹿児島 不倫宮崎 不倫沖縄 不倫

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#94)
by Anonymous User on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:28:40 PM PDT

セレブ 北海道セレブ 青森セレブ 岩手セレブ 宮城セレブ 秋田セレブ 山形セレブ 福島セレブ 東京セレブ 群馬セレブ 埼玉セレブ 千葉セレブ 茨木セレブ 神奈川セレブ 栃木セレブ 山梨セレブ 長野セレブ 新潟セレブ 岐阜セレブ 静岡セレブ 愛知セレブ 三重セレブ 富山セレブ 石川セレブ 福井セレブ 滋賀セレブ 京都セレブ 大阪セレブ 兵庫セレブ 奈良セレブ 和歌山セレブ 鳥取セレブ 島根セレブ 岡山セレブ 広島セレブ 山口セレブ 徳島セレブ 香川セレブ 愛媛セレブ 高知セレブ 福岡セレブ 佐賀セレブ 長崎セレブ 熊本セレブ 大分セレブ 鹿児島セレブ 宮崎セレブ 沖縄アダルト出会い

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#97)
by Anonymous User on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:13:05 AM PDT

北海道 セフレ青森 セフレ岩手 セフレ宮城 セフレ秋田 セフレ山形 セフレ福島 セフレ東京 セフレ群馬 セフレ埼玉 セフレ千葉 セフレ茨木 セフレ神奈川 セフレ栃木 セフレ山梨 セフレ長野 セフレ新潟 セフレ岐阜 セフレ静岡 セフレ愛知 セフレ三重 セフレ富山 セフレ石川 セフレ福井 セフレ滋賀 セフレ京都 セフレ大阪 セフレ兵庫 セフレ奈良 セフレ和歌山 セフレ鳥取 セフレ島根 セフレ岡山 セフレ広島 セフレ山口 セフレ徳島 セフレ香川 セフレ愛媛 セフレ高知 セフレ福岡 セフレ佐賀 セフレ長崎 セフレ熊本 セフレ大分 セフレ鹿児島 セフレ宮崎 セフレ沖縄 セフレ

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Why do people get upset about Internet ads?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Matthew Cervi on Tue May 09, 2006 at 11:41:00 AM PDT

Because more often than not the ads are obnoxious.  Seems to me a pretty high percentage of the ads are animated or require some action to get rid of and on to what you were trying to do.

Also, the resolution of a monitor is pretty limited compared to a magazine or newspaper.  Since you can fit a lot less information on a screen, anything that takes up space is automatically irritating.

Relating to the InfoWorld emails with the ads taking more prominence than the story:  would you read a newspaper if every article was interrupted every couple sentances by an ad?

Finally, I don't know if the Google ads produce much revenue, but those don't bother me in the least.  Very unobtrusive.

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Ads[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 09, 2006 at 11:43:33 AM PDT

Partly, I agree with the previous reply.  Ads that slow down the content I want to see are extremely annoying.  Then there are the Flash-based ads, which slow my entire Mac browsing - and everything else on the machine - to a crawl.  Flash does not seem to work well on Macs.

As far as just ignoring the ads, much of the trouble is that many ad delivery channels (not necessarily the advertisers themselves) go out of their way to force the ads to the center of your attention.  I don't think I have to remind anyone about the ongoing struggles we have with popups, pop-unders, pop-overs, you name it.  Some of the comics I read online even come up with full-page ads when I try to navigate between days.

I don't mind Google ads at all.  Not one bit.  They're unobtrusive and harmless.  They're like print ads - they don't obscure the content you're trying to view, but they're quietly there if you want to view them too.  Print ads don't move.  This is not at all the state of most internet ads, which flash, beep, vibrate and even outright hide the content you're trying to get to.  Neither do print ads take over your mailbox so that you get more and more of them every day, without leaving room for your real mail.  (Recognizing of course that adware carries only a fraction of the advertising that goes on.)

Advertising does pay for much of our media content on and off the net, but advertisers need to realize their place and stop trying to constantly force their products into our immediate attention.  They need to inform our buying decisions, not coerce us.

I don't mind responsible advertising, but nothing turns me off of a vendor faster than an ad that screams for my attention.


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Internet Adds Force Interaction[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by srynas on Tue May 09, 2006 at 12:05:05 PM PDT

Adds in Newspapers, Billboards, Flyers, and TV can be "tuned-out".  The problem with internet adds is that they "force" you to take some action to get rid of them. Addtionally, some marketing companies go beyond reason and actually hijack your computer so that it becomes unusable.

1. Least annoying. Adds on the Gripelog are similar to the newspaper and can be easily ignored (sorry about that).

2. More annoying, some websites put pop-ups that obstruct what you are trying to read. On one add, when I pressed the "close" button, instead of closing it went into its song and dance.

3. Most annoying. Two years ago my daughters computer became totally unusable due to pop-up after pop-up ... Clearly they were hijacked; but by what website, I do not recall. I had to reload the operating system and all the application software to correct the problem (a wasted day of work).

Points 2&3 clearly demonstrate offensive marketing behavior. Companies have a right to advertise but there comes a point where it becomes aggravating. If "actions speak louder than words", companies that use offensive marketing practices clearly do not care about their customers and therefor do not deserve our business.

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Ads...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 09, 2006 at 03:29:55 PM PDT

Ads in newspapers and magazines don't:
* Blink,
* Animate,
* Make noises,
* Blink,
* Surreptitously install shit on your computer,
* Blink,
* Bleep,
* Use Flash,
* Blink,
* Nefariously disguise themselves as error
  messages or other stuff (a few do disguise
  themselves as legit articles though),
* Blink,
* Blink,
* Overprint the actual articles, making them
  illegible,
* Appear as inserts that keep somehow jumping in
  front of the page you are reading, or
* Blink.

TV ads are starting to get as bad as internet ads. Loud and flashy, etc. Worse, since most internet ads still don't have sound, thank God. They are sometimes 3 or 4 times as loud as the goddam show -- sometimes I have to turn my TV up to max volume to hear the dialogue, usually because it mysteriously gets real quiet just before the next ad break, and then KABLAM! It sounds like a jet is taking off in my living room, a jet whose engines mysteriously have the power of intelligible speech and want to sell me deodorant?

And the TV ads are getting deceptive. The practise currently galling me the most is when a TV ad intentionally begins with a sound cue a lot of people have come to associate with "the show is coming back on!". We have these gems as examples so far:
* A cleaning-solution ad that begins with the
  first five or so notes of the James Bond theme.
  You think the movie's back on, or something cool
  is on, go to the TV, and it's a dumbass ad that
  isn't even targeted at the right demographic.
  The tune attracts people with Y chromosomes. No
  self-respecting such person buys the product
  they then try to peddle. What genius decides
  which appropriated tune to associate with which
  advertised product category? Not the
  somewhat-smart ones who decide which shows to
  interrupt with what product category, it seems.
  They don't interrupt actual Bond film airings
  with this shit -- it's always beer, fast cars,
  and girls during action flicks. Someone has
  their shit together at least.
* A broom ad that begins with the same fanfare
  used by CTV News. Amazingly, rather than sue for
  trademark infringement, CTV itself actually airs
  this ad. I heard the fanfare from the ad and
  then from the start of the news half an hour
  later one time, without changing channel. They
  were identical. Doesn't trademark law cover this
  kind of misuse of characteristic sounds? Don't
  the legitimate owners of said trademarks care
  about dilution?
* An ad for I don't remember what -- insurance? --
  begins with one of those little guitar riffs
  that nominally indicate that Seinfeld has come
  back from ads or one scene's ended and another's
  begun.
* Other examples I can't explicitly remember. The
  misused sounds are usually quite characteristic
  of some show, generally used when the show
  returns from a break, and generally therefore
  have a high salience to an audience that begins
  ignoring the TV for 3 minutes when ads begin and
  waits for such a cue to stop ignoring it.
  News fanfares are especially common.
* A while back, when the movie The Day after
  Tomorrow was first showing up on TV, an ad aired
  frequently for a while that used a voice
  strongly resembling Quaid's and sound and visual
  effects to grab attention by resembling scenes
  from the latter half of the movie. This made it
  a deceptive attention-getter.

I only wish I knew what marketing geniuses think that pissing off potential customers is the best way to get good sales leads? Nobody likes being deceived; and the most likely reaction to "Argh, I've been had by the ad with the fake CTV News fanfare AGAIN!" is "I redouble my renewed resolve never to ever buy anything from these pricks"...The news fanfare misuse is especially irritating, because brief news updates are shown on CTV channels during show breaks and begin with the same fanfare, and the ad is shown on CTV channels too. You can no longer trust that it means you're going to hear a blurb about the latest weapon of mass destruction they didn't find in Iraq; more at 11. The others mostly only work during the same show they stole sound effects from, since if you're watching Star Trek and hear a Seinfeld noise you ignore it even if it tricks you into thinking it's something about the Seinfeld episode that's on later that evening.

The marketeers that generate spam and obnoxious Web ads are being similarly stupid; the more annoying and/or deceptive an ad is, the less likely I am to implicitly endorse it by going to the company's Web site, and the even less likely I am ever to actually *subsidize* their annoying ads by purchasing anything from them, knowing that for every dime I pay beyond the product's cost, they have another nickel to spend on spamming people online.

Not that I buy much anyway. Not at typical prices these days. Especially from the software or entertainment industries. As a member of a low income bracket I resent every penny above cost that I'm charged for anything, and when something is marked up 300% or even 10,000% above the marginal cost of reproduction, that's a lot of pennies. (The former applies to a lot of consumer products once the middlemen have added their bits to the price tag, and the provincial government its sales tax, and the federal government it's GST ... the latter applies to anything that comes on any kind of disc and carries a price tag of $10 or more.)


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Re: Not entirely true[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 10, 2006 at 10:04:15 AM PDT

Ed: Obviously, you don't get it. Internet ads SUCK, to be blunt. They are purposely designed to be ANNOYING, rather than INFORMATIVE. They splatter themselves over THE CONTENT which is what makes them so darn annoying. How about a GripeLine article on "Ads that work" vs. what most of the gunk is?

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No extraneous motion please[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by NorthFork on Fri May 12, 2006 at 09:56:17 AM PDT

I only hate the ones that move and flash. And I hate those with a vengeance. Also, I have noticed that some Flash ads can take up extraordinary amounts of resources...one time I clocked one using 27% of my CPU! Most advertisers still don't "get" the internet and advertise like they do on TV or in magazines. One ad for all, brand building, nothing specific. The ads get such low click through rates because they are not what anyone is looking for. I think the reason google ads work, is that they are more specific.

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Re: Blinking Ads[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by tscoff on Tue May 09, 2006 at 04:10:50 AM PDT

Worse than the blinking ads are the ones which are full motion streaming video with audio from one of my local newspapers.  I've blocked that newspapers ad server because the noise intrudes on my peaceful morning.

I'd like to comment on the free content.  Television is no longer free for 95% of us because of cable TV, and yet the television broadcasters are complaining when we use Tivo to bypass the advertising which they include with content (shows) that we are paying for!  The advertising industry is becoming more and more intrusive into our daily lives and as a result many of us, including me, are making it a point to ignore that advertising when we make purchasing decisions.

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Ads[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (