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Only Clairol Knows For Sure

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Fri May 19, 2006 at 12:12:15 AM PDT

I don't want to alarm you, but a reader just sent me evidence showing that a large and secretive organization is tracking some surprising information about us. No, not the National Security Agency. We're talking about a really secretive organization: Proctor & Gamble.


"I ran across this recently and wanted to share it with someone, but didn't know who to send it to, so you're getting it," the reader wrote. "I just received a bulk-mail flyer from Proctor & Gamble with a very interesting feature; namely, what appears to be unique tracking data embedded in the coupon's barcode which tie it to the recipient. There appears to be enough data to track individual coupons, not just geographic areas. Needless to say, there is absolutely nothing anywhere on the flyer to indicate that this 'paper spyware' is present."

The coupon was for $3 off on a purchase of Clairol Herbal Essence hair color. "I almost gave the coupon to a friend who sometimes uses the product until I noticed the barcode had wavy lines and different ink, indicating that it had been individually printed on," the reader wrote. "Once I spotted this, I checked the numbers against the address box and found that both sets of non-address-related numbers in the mailing label also appear on the coupon itself -- one barcoded, the other as plain text only but similar to the remaining part of the barcode."

Sure, it wouldn't be the biggest tragedy if Proctor & Gamble can trace a purchase back to him, but the reader is bothered by the sneakiness of the coupon. "My privacy is worth more than a $3 discount on hair color, but most people wouldn't even know they were selling themselves out if they just clipped the coupon with an uncritical eye," the reader wrote. "I wouldn't be so irritated by this if they came clean about what they were doing -- it's not that different than a supermarket club card, but I know those are being tracked and can choose not to use them. It's the stealth nature of this that leads me to gripe."

< Has HP Quality Become an Oxymoron? | Apple's Cold and Fuzzy Dead Pixel Policy >


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Only Clairol Knows For Sure | 98 comments (98 topical) | Post A Comment
trackability of coupons[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 20, 2006 at 03:08:40 PM PDT

even ordinary looking coupons have the possibility of being tracked at the user level.

for example, i saw a borders coupon with the barcode of "15901063000000000002" (im guessing on the zeroes, im way too lazy to count them).

this is a non-personalized coupon, but if those zeroes were filled in, this coupon could be tracked back to the person it was issued to, this usually raises the overhead of the company because they require a clearing house to report back the coupons that were redeemed.


[ Reply to This ]



ccc[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 07:39:55 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Who cares?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by cmcphate on Tue May 23, 2006 at 09:20:42 AM PDT

I get coupons like this in the mail from Bed, Bath & Beyond all the time. You know what? I use them. Five dollars off here, 20% off there. And the more I use them, the more they send me, and the more I save.

I do the same with my Borders Rewards card. I get 25% off coupons at least once a week, and I use every one of them.

Ditto on the grocery store cards.

These companies aren't enticing me to spend money on things I don't want or need. These are products I would have bought anyway, but now I get them at significant discounts.

Honestly, what do I care that they can track what I buy? I pay for everything with a credit card anyway, so my purchases have already been tracked for years.

Everyone wants something for nothing. I get significant discounts in exchange for my address and spending habits. That information is then used to send me more discounts. In the case of Borders, I get coupons for things that match my interests. If it helps vendors improve their products and services, they can have my information.

(I suspect the flames will begin soon...)

[ Reply to This ]



P&G Cares... [ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 23, 2006 at 11:21:07 AM PDT

Come on... This almost sounds like the old 'P&G is Evil' bandwagon people used to pile on. I'm sure P&G is just trying to see where the most effective places are to mass-mail the coupons to, and what demographics are likely to use them...

This also does not account for people who trade coupons (there are sites setup just for this purpose!), which causes all their tracking data to become moot as soon as someone uses a coupon who traded for it instead of getting it in the mail.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



I'm with you (original poster)[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by dmittleman on Tue May 23, 2006 at 11:26:10 AM PDT

If they track me buying a product I wanted anyway and from that figure out a little more about me or about their product, do you know what happens other than me saving some money right now? They make the product a little more in a way to fit my needs!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Curious[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by VonSkippy on Tue May 23, 2006 at 11:31:22 AM PDT

Does your tin foil hat interfere with the hair coloring?  There's plenty in the world to worry about - whether or not some marketing firm tracks your coupon use is definitely not one of them.

[ Reply to This ]


Only Clairol Knows For Sure[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 23, 2006 at 12:33:15 PM PDT

This is a problem that can be solved with a Sharpie. The next best thing would be to swap coupon sets.

[ Reply to This ]


Subvert the system--Trade away![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 23, 2006 at 02:01:39 PM PDT

Trading this coupon is a great way to invalidate the "tracking" features. I have advocated trading loyalty cards since their inception, too--imagine the confusion at Grocery Empire HQ if they ever look at their carefully collected data and learn that an 85-year-old grandmother buys little more than Captain Crunch, 20 packs of Bud Light and boxes of condoms every week :) Now I know the chances of that are slim but it makes me grin every time I use someone else's card (and wonder what they're tracking to me).

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


un-listed store cards[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by NorthFork on Fri May 26, 2006 at 12:28:15 AM PDT

I have on more than one occasion been able to get out the door with the store club card without filling out the form with my personal information. I just ask for the card when it's really busy in line, and then take my time reading the fine print. The clerk asks me if I'd like to fill it out at home and bring it back later. Sure! I walk out the door, peel off the personal info form and throw it away and put the card in my wallet. I guess they are still tracking the purchases made with that card, but it has no personal data attached to it, and I don't get junk mail.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Jack Bauer Gonna Get 'Cha[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 23, 2006 at 12:42:27 PM PDT

I am sure P&G runs a high tech clandestine CTU-esque operation. They will track you down using state of the art store coupon technology and send Jack Bauer to torture you into buying their products. What a great conspiracy story for another season of "24"

[ Reply to This ]


Other Questionable P&G Marketing[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 23, 2006 at 02:13:56 PM PDT

It has also recently been noted that Proctor & Gamble is now practicing "word of mouth" advertising by getting people to mention P&G products to their social network of friends. They pay them with free product, apparently. Article at http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_22/b3986060.htm

[ Reply to This ]


What's that green smell?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 24, 2006 at 06:11:54 AM PDT

Ah -- the sweet summer scent of ... astroturf?

Bah.

Of course, as filtering and blocking technology advances, the only types of ad that will remain viable will be classifieds and plugs, so product placement will become the mainstay of large companies' advertising strategies. Product placement is already not just for movies anymore; the jeweler Bulgari paid for product placement in a romance novel a while back, and now there's this P&G astroturf campaign...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



P&G Coupons[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 23, 2006 at 03:44:29 PM PDT

First it is Procter & Gamble not Proctor & Gamble. All P&G coupons are unique and the redemption is tracked. One reason is because of fraud. The other is to make the advertising more effective. A historical database is kept and based on the distribution you can tell how and when it will hit the market. I know back in the 80's I wrote the coupon forcasting system.

[ Reply to This ]


Define "fraud"[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 24, 2006 at 06:15:00 AM PDT

What fraud problems were they having, exactly? People redeeming the same coupon twice? Cashiers that receive a coupon a customer redeems then redeeming it themselves as customers later on? Outright counterfeiting? Or do they consider giving someone else, trading, etc. their coupons to be "fraud"?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Fraud[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 30, 2006 at 08:43:54 AM PDT

Think rather than complain! Who redeems the coupon from P&G? Not an individual but a store. There are lots of crooks who turn in coupons using a PO box and say they are a store.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fvbh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 04:45:38 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fgbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#48)
by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 23, 2008 at 06:53:13 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


gbvv[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 24, 2008 at 04:19:46 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


gfdd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#54)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fgkk[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#57)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fdmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#60)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fbvd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#63)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


gfmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#66)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fdgg[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#69)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 31, 2008 at 05:58:10 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


ffgb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#72)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fkoo[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#75)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


okmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#78)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 05:59:33 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


jdhh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#81)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


mkoo[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#84)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 10:51:25 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


fvbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#89)
by Anonymous User on Sat Nov 08, 2008 at 01:09:04 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


ggfd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#92)
by Anonymous User on Sun Nov 09, 2008 at 04:11:33 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


dfgg[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#96)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 14, 2008 at 09:10:02 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


P& G Coupons[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Tinman on Tue May 23, 2006 at 08:59:25 PM PDT

  There's more going on than what meets the eye.  If they can tack individuals through coupons, then they can create a portfolio on every person and target mailing ads (more junk mail), or even sell it to internet marketers to send out specific spams to specific people.  To think that they can't put an email address to a name is just lame.
  And if someone is buying a lot of certain products that point to a certain health conditions, this information can in turn be sold to insurance companies to "Weed Out" anything other than healthy people.  What a business, selling health insurance to only people that are most likely to live a long life, the profit margins are now through the roof, and the poor unhealthy that needs it most can't get any health insurance.

  I say, if they're going to make money off of my information, then I want my share of the money.  But I'd rather not be spied on in any case.
((((TINMAN))))
[ Reply to This ]



paranoia[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by VonSkippy on Tue May 23, 2006 at 09:47:19 PM PDT

With that type of fear, I hope you only use cash, aren't connected to the electric or gas or water or sewer grid, don't have cable or satellite tv, don't own a car or a gun or a dog, don't have kids, don't use a phone or a cell phone, don't use the Internet, don't have a SSN or pay taxes, don't have health/car/home insurance, don't have a job, shred then burn all your trash, always wear gloves, don't leave the house without a randomly applied disguise, etc. etc. etc.

Living "below the radar" is a myth in today's wired society.  Worrying about coupon tracking is the LEAST of your troubles.  

So take a Prozac, adjust your tin foil hat, and relax.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Demographic clusters and shopper surveys:[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 31, 2006 at 07:49:49 AM PDT

Demographic clusters are the results of data mining and aggrigation via shopping and publicly available census data. There is a book about this which identifies different demographic clusters and gives info about them valuable to marketers. And these do drill down to Zip+4 and block sized areas... Got some free time then check into "demographic clusters". Those "Shopper info" surveys people get and fill out to get valuable coupons? Those directly tie info to an address for data mining. Therefore I answer all questions affrimative and get all coupon offers. Yes 10 children and three adults with heart disease live at this location and make over $500k per year and one is over 21 who smokes! Somebody in my apartment complex gets valuable cigarette coupons as I leave them in the mail area. These surveys are far more insideous for data mining than a one off coupon.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Big (oh) Brother[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 24, 2006 at 05:34:19 AM PDT

And when the NSA actually figures out WHAT to do with the zillions of phone log entries... They can ask P&G to turn over their coupon logs. Gotta have an excuse for buying the next gen super computers. Har har har... all in the name of catching terrorist and meth cooks. To ramble on... WIRED magazine pointed out that sitting beside most federal agent is a device that had three potentially illegal devices... a Filter Funnel, A Beaker, and a Hot Plate (a Mr. Coffee)

[ Reply to This ]


Maybe it's about retailer coupon fraud?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 24, 2006 at 12:38:18 PM PDT

There have existed grocery stores where these coupons would be bought in bulk from local news vendors, clipped, then "redeemed" without a consumer seeing them. Coding would catch such fraud.

[ Reply to This ]


eff off[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 25, 2006 at 11:39:39 AM PDT

If the grocery store itself did something like that, they're only robbing themselves, so what's the point? Or is it one employee effectively embezzling from the company in this case?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


It was a good business....[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 25, 2006 at 06:11:35 PM PDT

Manufacturer would pay Store face value of the coupon, plus a handling fee. Store wouldn't actually sell anything, but turn in a whole bunch of coupons. Minus the cost of cutting, (which could be done 40 or 50 coupons at a time) and that's a lot of money! Now, if you read the coupons they tell the stores they must complie with the manufacturer's coupon policy which basically says the manufacture has the right to verfy that they actually SOLD the merchandise they are redeeming the coupons for.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Stores aren't owned by Procter & Gamble[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by foxyshadis1 on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 12:01:08 PM PDT

I think you're confusing store and manufacturer coupons.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


pasing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
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  • [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
    by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:57:53 PM PDT

    出会い出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニーエロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEアゲインで決まり

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    fvbh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
    by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 22, 2008 at 04:45:48 AM PDT

    SEXlink1

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    fgbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#49)
    by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 23, 2008 at 06:53:20 AM PDT

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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    gbvv[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#52)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 24, 2008 at 04:19:59 AM PDT

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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    gfdd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#55)
    by Anonymous User on Sat Oct 25, 2008 at 04:08:07 AM PDT

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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    fgkk[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#58)
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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    fdmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#61)
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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    fbvd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#64)
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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    gfmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#67)
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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    fdgg[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#70)
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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


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    fkoo[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#76)
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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    okmm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#79)
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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    jdhh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#82)
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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


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    fvbb[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#90)
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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    ggfd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#93)
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    [