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IBM's Brand Takes on a Different Nuance

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 12:09:50 AM PDT

When you buy a product because you trust the brand, it can be a shock to discover a completely different company is actually doing technical support. For example, many IBM ThinkPad customers were unhappy when IBM sold that brand to Lenovo. And now a reader finds that support for another product with Big Blue's name on it -- the IBM ViaVoice speech recognition software -- is actually done by ScanSoft. Or, as ScanSoft now calls itself, Nuance Communications.


"I recently bought IBM ViaVoice for a doctor I know who wants to speed up writing a book," the reader wrote. "You've seen various doctors' penmanship so I think you can see that part of the problem, and he doesn't do technology nor keyboarding very much better. I've used ViaVoice for several years, so he asked for my help setting it up. So I buy the software and start to install it. Arg. The install hangs. Reboot, restart, hang ... reboot, restart, hang."

It was only when the reader went to get support from IBM that he discovered that IBM ViaVoice is now sold and supported by ScanSoft, which was renamed Nuance last year. "That's not good news," the reader wrote. "I didn't like ScanSoft's non-support of Paperport, so already I know I'm in trouble. I look around their support website, and there's nothing in the knowledge base to shed any light on my problems. What I do find is that there's a $10 charge just to send them an e-mail with a support question."

I should mention that I've heard about this $10 pay-per-incident email support fee from a few other readers using Nuance/ScanSoft products such as PDF Converter. Along with the ten bucks, one is also required to fill out a long online form demanding name, address, phone number and other personal information. Not a very friendly way to begin a support relationship.

Not surprisingly, the reader decided he would just have to make ViaVoice work himself. "There was a restocking fee of 20 percent and a doctor depending upon my skill, so I was committed," the reader wrote. "I spent four hours tinkering with it. Just clear, install, fail, and reboot. After countless times, some error messages, and much hanging unresponsively, one install worked! Now I am not sure that it will work for him or what he can do if he runs into more trouble, but at least it's installed."

Of course, what the reader really wonders is how supposed to know that IBM ViaVoice is not actually supported by IBM. "It's in a box with an IBM logo," the reader wrote. "The web site that I bought it from had a big picture showing it. 'IBM' is screamed from every listing you can find on it. So, I would label this as a gigantic fraud on the marketplace. It shouldn't be advertised as IBM."

A spokesperson for Nuance whom I contacted says that the product does actually still belong to IBM. "We have had distribution rights for IBM ViaVoice since 2003," the Nuance spokesperson said. "It is still an IBM product in that they develop it and they own the technology. Nuance markets it and supports it." While she confirmed that e-mail support for the product does cost $9.95 per incident, the spokesperson also pointed out that the first incident is free for toll phone support and $19.95 thereafter.

Be that as it may, the reader still feels hoodwinked. "I think we have arrived at a time where brand doesn't matter, the vendor doesn't matter, and promises implied or explicit cannot be relied upon," the reader wrote. "If IBM ViaVoice only comes with poor support, or pay-to-send-us-an-email support, from somebody other than IBM, then it should be labeled abandonware or crudware."

I think we can all agree that the reader's brand confusion over ScanSoft IBM ViaVoice from Nuance Communications is understandable. What I find perplexing, though, is IBM's willingness to let its name to be used this way. After all, it's a name that has long fetched a premium in different markets in great part because customers felt they could rely on Big Blue support. If products with those three letters on it can wind up being supported by just anyone, how much brand value does IBM risk losing? Write me at Foster@gripe2ed.com or post your comments below and let us know what you think.

< Reader Voices: Contract or Coercion? | How the Copyright Office Protected Sony's Rootkit >


Display: Sort:
IBM's Brand Takes on a Different Nuance | 43 comments (43 topical) | Post A Comment
Paying for support?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by chrisss on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 02:47:12 AM PDT

Someone, somewhere has to pay for product support - let's face it, 9 times out of 10 it's not a problem with the product but some user setup issue. The fact that your reader eventually got it going by himself indicates to me this is one of those times - surely it's reasonable to charge for handholding? Arguably a better policy from Nuance would be to refund the support cost where it is their problem, but that's another argument. As for trust in brand's which banana boat did you get off? IBM's near withdrawal from retail should have given your reader a clue just how much it cares about it's image in this space - he'd have been better off buying the Dragon product.

[ Reply to This ]


User error[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 08:57:18 AM PDT

>> 9 times out of 10 it's not a problem with the product but some user setup issue. The fact that your reader eventually got it going by himself indicates to me this is one of those times

Without more information, you're making quite a leap here. For example, there could be some undocumented incompatibility when a particular program is running in the background (anti-virus programs and firewalls are often problems). Through his numerous re-installs, he may have tried an install without the conflicting program running (either by accident or intent). If it's not documented, it's not a user setup issue.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Big Leap You're Making, Indeed - The Company Sucks[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by alexg on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 12:21:14 PM PDT

I, too, have no problem paying extra for extra support, but my experiences with Nuance have been horrible. Their survey was much, much longer than anything I had ever had to fill in for any other company in the 20 plus years I have in PC software support. I *had* been a big fan of ScanSoft software, but in the last few years, it has been big, buggy, and slow. How's this for a comment from Amazon on their OTHER software: "I purchased, activated and registered this software and now it FREEZES MY SYSTEM every time I try to use it ..." "This product crashed my PC on install " "Don't even think about buying this software. It's a waste of money and time. "

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Ah...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Wed Apr 12, 2006 at 08:10:34 AM PDT

That's called the "software lifecycle". You get an unusable version 1.0, crummy version 2.0, a marginally usable version 3.0, and a fully functional but fairly buggy 4.0, and then a decent 4.1 or 4.2. Then you get a bloated 5.0, a slow and crufty 6.0, a broken 7.0, an unusable 8.0, and if the gods have mercy that's where it stops. Eventually someone else makes version 1.0 of new software with the same sort of functionality (e.g. word processing) and the cycle starts again. :)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


That's it.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:26:44 AM PDT

I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


objection[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:13:04 AM PDT

My objection is to the lack of an available knowledgebase. The companies that make you register to look at the knowledgebase or worse - download patches/upadates are just as bad. order viagra , cheap viagra I don't want to spend 10 minutes providing the marketing department with information before I can troubleshoot a product I paid for. Whoever the current owner of EZ-CD Creator lost a customer on that one.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Continuing saga[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by reinkefj on Wed Apr 12, 2006 at 07:13:25 AM PDT

Well in this case it was not handholding that was needed but a solution. The product did install after a slew of retries, I lost count after 10, I was not eligible for a free first support because I was already a customer. I bought a copy a few years ago and it works for me. I foolishly showed my doc friend how neat it was and he had me buy a copy for him, install it, and help him get running. Even after getting it running, it stopped working (i.e., just will not execute the code). It works flawlessly on my notebook but not his. Oh and By The Way, Dragon is Nuanced also. Which is why I aimed him at ViaVoice as opposed to Dragon. Bottom line: Buyer beware. reinkefj http://public.2idi.com/=reinkefj

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


User setup issue??[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by LasVegan on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 10:30:27 AM PDT

Such issues are very often the fault of the company for not documenting something or documenting it very poorly.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Inital tech support[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 06:27:02 AM PDT

I used to be at an outsource company for Dell in Texas. We were paid around $8 an hour, and were expected to have a call time under 15 minutes. So when a customer called in with a problem, it was no big deal to help them out and explain how to fix it him/herself in the future. It's a customer relations issue - "I was able to get free help, so I'll buy another Dell." And they'll tell their friends, etc. But now that they don't do ANY support here in the States, there's now the language and cultural barriers, and that's the beginning of Dell's demise - seen their profit numbers lately?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Response[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:12:00 AM PDT

The product did install after a slew of retries, I lost count after 10, I was not eligible for a free first support because I was already a customer. I bought a copy a few years ago and it works for me. xenical , levitra , clomid , buy viagra online I foolishly showed my doc friend how neat it was and he had me buy a copy for him, install it, and help him get running. Even after getting it running, it stopped working (i.e., just will not execute the code). It works flawlessly on my notebook but not his.

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    антимаулнетизм antimaulnetizm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 03:52:47 PM PDT

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    yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#49)
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    Pay for Support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 06:27:53 AM PDT

    I agree that paid support makes sense. Someone has to pay for it and 90% of the time it's the user's configuration or setup causing the problem.

    My objection is to the lack of an available knowledgebase. The companies that make you register to look at the knowledgebase or worse - download patches/upadates are just as bad. I don't want to spend 10 minutes providing the marketing department with information before I can troubleshoot a product I paid for. Whoever the current owner of EZ-CD Creator lost a customer on that one.

    So my solution (if anyone is still reading) is to make the knowledgebase publically available and easily accesible. Give us access to the same scripts you have your level 1 support monkeys reading (yes - the mouse is plugged in). If I still need your help to troubleshoot my computer, I will pay for it or return the product.

    [ Reply to This ]


    But then...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
    by Garminski on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 07:53:47 AM PDT

    But then manufaturers won't be able to mark up their products for their "world class support". :-)

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Truth in advertising...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 09:36:54 AM PDT

    Due to the Truth In Advertising laws in the USA, the phrase "World Class Support" is being played by the phrase "Third World Class Support" in tonight's performance...

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    ViaVoice[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
    by crowncox on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 11:49:18 AM PDT

    IBM ViaVoice is still supported by several VARs here in the United States. My company, Crown International is one of these. Your reader could look at my website www.crown1.com for more information. I should be able to help him with the problems he experienced and I have personally written several books by dictation using ViaVoice. Sincerely, James P. Cox, President Dictated to IBM ViaVoice for Windows release 10, Pro USB Edition

    [ Reply to This ]


    Big Deal[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 12:04:13 PM PDT

    Have the prissy ass doctor learn to type like EVERY OTHER writer in the world.  Geesh, is the guy like 7 years old or what?

    [ Reply to This ]


    Prissy Doctor[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 12:17:57 PM PDT

    No, I am knot sevvin yeers old. I gust kant spel rele good.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Oops..[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 03:42:50 PM PDT

    Hope that wasn't ViaVoice you entered that with!

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Learn to type or know enough to write a book?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
    by MrsPost on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 07:43:24 AM PDT

    I think I would prefer the doctor know enough about his area to write a book than learn to type.

    That may just be me but I realize that not everyone can type or wants to type. If there's a tool to help them out then by all means use it!

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Learning to type[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
    by Brian N Littleton on Sun Apr 16, 2006 at 03:36:26 AM PDT

    When one has limited use of hand/fingers, one is not going to waste time 'learning' how to keyboard with those limitations. If there is a tool like IBM ViaVoice available use it. Also, after the program learns your speech mannerisms, one can dictate faster than a keyboarder.

    After reading all of the other comments, I think I'll stick with my IBM ViaVoice OEM Version 9.1 Pro Edition copywrited 1993, 2001, 2003.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Ouch![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
    by Anonymous User on Sun Apr 16, 2006 at 11:21:03 AM PDT

    When one has limited use of hands/fingers, nobody wants to be operated on by one. :)

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Operated on one.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
    by alexg on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 03:07:29 PM PDT

    There are thousands of doctors who save lives and never perform operations. And, how about any *former* surgeons due to health problems who couldn't type, but would have experience to pass on.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Fooey[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 08:07:07 PM PDT

    I don't care if he's planning major surgery or just sticking his hand up my arse -- I don't want the doctor to have anything less than perfect manual dexterity either way. Their pokings and proddings hurt quite enough when they are done competently.

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    yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
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    yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#48)
    by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:51:21 PM PDT

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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Paid Support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 05:44:37 PM PDT

    I have no problem with paying support fees for free software -- someone has to pay somehow, as other people have pointed out.

    I object to paying support fees for software I have purchased, however. If I purchase a program, I expect it to work properly. If it doesn't work properly, then it is the fault of the program, not of myself (even if it is an incompatibility with something else). [Note that I'm referring here to "real" problems -- I have no problem with asking for money for "helpdesk/tutorial" style assistance, where the user just needs help using something in the program. Although even there I would object if it wasn't covered sufficiently in the manual.]

    I'm absolutely livid about those companies that charge for bug reports, especially in the cases where the user isn't even expecting a response (perhaps because they've discovered a workaround themselves). That's just rampant stupidity and money-grubbing.



    [ Reply to This ]


    Whatever happened to...?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 09:19:04 PM PDT

    ...any of the following: thirty (or more) days of complimentary support some number of free support incidents (even one) free installation assistance And then, by the time most of us even resort to contacting tech support, we've done most of what the monkeys have in the script in front of them. The most frustrating is when they don't even bother to listen to a problem description and the steps already taken, and ask the same old redundant questions! "I'm trying to get YourFlukeySoftware installed on my WinXP SP2 system..." "What operating system are you using?"

    [ Reply to This ]


    Sorry about the lack of format of the above...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
    by bulova on Tue Apr 11, 2006 at 09:23:43 PM PDT

    The list should have looked like:

    ...any of the following:

    thirty (or more) days of complimentary support

    some number of free support incidents (even one)

    free installation assistance

    Beginning with "And..." the rest was just a text paragraph.

    --

    Bartlet: Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, concerned citizens can change the world. Do you know why?

    Will: That's the only thing that ever has
    [ Reply to This ]



    So did you ask?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
    by Anonymous User on Wed Apr 12, 2006 at 09:24:19 AM PDT

    Your closing question seems to be directed at IBM. So, did you ask them? Personally, I would love to have their take of the whole situation.

    [ Reply to This ]


    This is why...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
    by Anonymous User on Wed Apr 12, 2006 at 10:24:56 AM PDT

    Out of a duty to customers, all software for individual use (enterprise use software generally offers a support contract and should have a separate set of rules) should have at least a minimum limited-free tech support period. 30 days would probably be enough in most cases, but 90 days ought to cover everything. After that, I don't have an issue with charging for support.

    In addition, having a free knowledgebase online and a set of online discussion forums can really make a difference. They can answer 90% of an end-users questions or better, and also allows your customers to serve as support for each other. It's amazing how many times I've posted on one of these forums, and found someone who had the same problem as I did, but found a fix, or a workaround, or already had their problem solved by support, and this greatly eases the burden on a company's tech support, while still providing quality service.

    [ Reply to This ]



    Is all Voice Recognition software problematic?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
    by Anonymous User on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 09:01:57 AM PDT

    We have a situation of an OEM'ed version of DragonDictate used in a medical environment. The company incorporating Dragon was on site to personally install the thing.

    The weird part was that they had trouble installing on certain machines but not others. It was clear that they didn't really know what the problem was. I pushed the tech to call Dragon, but he said they couldn't do that (he didn't elaborate, but I took it to mean that the OEM arrangement didn't allow for that).

    I thought that the apparently similar circumstances to the ViaVoice install problem was interesting.

    [ Reply to This ]



    Terrible Experience[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
    by James on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 04:19:29 PM PDT

    This is totally unacceptable according to me. I would be furious if something like that happened to me, to discover that a total different company was responsible, not to mention the bad customer service! Seems like fraud to me.
    James, webdesigner currently working on How To Get Full Erection project.
    [ Reply to This ]


    No wonder[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
    by Felicia on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:19:56 PM PDT

    I can completely understand that the customer was confused over this. I would have been as well. Strange thing that it can be like this, but I guess it gets more and more common.
    Felicia, IT Professional currently working on the Antidepressant Search project.
    [ Reply to This ]


    Well[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
    by Gordon on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 10:13:00 AM PDT

    I understand that it was a bad experience for the customer but in one way I can understand that there is a charge for the support since it would be extremely expensive for the company otherwise.
    Gordon, Web Developer currently working on the herbal hair loss remedy project.
    [ Reply to This ]


    well[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 12:05:55 AM PDT

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    yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#50)
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    lingering[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
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    wslaat[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#44)
    by hjhjh220 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 03:40:06 AM PDT

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    kral[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
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