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EBay Makes Sellers Pay for Using PayPal

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Mar 06, 2006 at 08:32:06 AM PDT

EBay has implemented a policy that seems aimed at eliminating the use of personal PayPal accounts for collecting funds on EBay transactions. As a result, EBay sellers must pay the standard PayPal credit card fee even when buyers pay with funds from their own PayPal account.


"For a long time, I found EBay a valuable service," a reader recently wrote. "I don't have a huge history, but I've done over a hundred transactions since 1998, buying more than selling. And I've been happy to use what became EBay's PayPal service in helping process my transactions. This is about to change for me. I posted four auctions recently, and within less than 24 hours, all had been removed. I was clueless as to why, until I received an e-mail from EBay."

The e-mail informed him that his auctions had been taken down because he stated in them that he accepted PayPal only for non-credit card payments. "Sellers who offer PayPal as a payment option in the listing process must accept all forms of PayPal payment, without restriction," the EBay e-mail told him. "Sellers must have a Premier or Business PayPal Account or be willing to upgrade from a Personal PayPal Account to a Premier or Business Account if sellers receive a credit card payment. Sellers may not communicate to buyers that they accept, or will not accept, specific forms of PayPal payment. Please be aware that you are not required to use PayPal as an accepted form of payment for your listings. However, we hope that you will realize the protection and convenience that PayPal offers."

The reader did not want to upgrade to a PayPal business account because he was aware that would mean he'd then have to pay PayPal's credit card transaction fee on every payment. "If I have to upgrade my PayPal account from a Personal one to a Premier account -- which I'd be forced to do by EBay if I took PayPal and someone paid me with a credit card -- PayPal will charge me transaction fees for accepting funds, regardless of whether they are paid with a credit card or not. And regardless of whether the payment is from an EBay auction or not."

The reader acknowledges the PayPal fee of 2.9 percent plus 30 cents is reasonable for a credit card transaction, but he sees no reason he should pay that cut on money paid directly from a seller's PayPal account balance. "My not accepting credit cards means that PayPal is charged no credit card transaction fees because of me," the reader wrote. "Why then, must EBay see fit to charge me more? In essence, they are forcing all EBay sellers who wish to use PayPal to become Premier members, even if they only sell half a dozen items each year. I am not a business, I can't make it up on volume, I'm just trying to sell a few spare computer parts here and there. Apparently it is no longer enough for Ebay to collect twice from my auction -- listing fees, plus a percentage of the final auction value -- they must now attempt to force me into being triple-dipped into paying more fees."

A spokesperson for EBay and PayPal told me that EBay first implemented this policy in August of last year. "The reason for the change is that EBay was getting a lot of complaints from buyers who would try paying with a credit card through PayPal only to have their payment rejected by the seller," the EBay spokesperson said. "Having their credit card payments blocked was creating a bad buyer experience. I understand the frustration your reader feels in this instance, but EBay has to look at how to offer the best experience for buyers."

The EBay spokesman says that the policy applies only on Ebay, so PayPal personal account users are free on other sites to state that they will not accept credit cards. The policy of charging business accounts the same rate for PayPal account payments as credit card payments - a policy I frequently hear gripes about from old PayPal customers -- dates to 2000, before PayPal was acquired by EBay.

For his part, the reader assumes the real reason for the policy is that EBay and PayPal lack serious competition. "It all kind of reminds me of what happened around where I live when banks started getting big," the reader wrote. "They stopped caring about smaller customers, and started charging nuisance fees on all sorts of transactions, instituted higher minimum balances, and at the same time lowered interest rates on basic accounts. I switched twice to smaller bank chains that got bought out by the big ones, starting the whole thing over again, until I finally found a bank customer well meant you had a customer for life. I really hope someone comes out with an alternative to PayPal - the market could certainly stand for it."

< A EULA Edited to Help the Customer | Dead Pixels Tell No Tales >


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EBay Makes Sellers Pay for Using PayPal | 122 comments (122 topical) | Post A Comment
Two ways around this problem[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 06, 2006 at 09:25:01 AM PDT

  1. The seller can open up a 2nd PayPal account that's Premiere or Business, and use that for credit card payments only. He would have to communicate to the buyer privately that if they're not paying with a credit card, they should use his personal PayPal account.

  2. Just don't list PayPal as a payment option in your listings, and that you do list "Other" as a payment option. Make sure you mention in the Payment Options section that you don't accept PayPal credit card payments.

After the auction is completed, most buyers will ask you if you accept PayPal before mailing out a check or money order, and you can then communicate to them privately that you accept non-credit card payments. However, you can't insist that they use PayPal; this would be in violation of eBay rules.

Please note that personal PayPal accounts have a $500 monthly receiving limit.

Bob

[ Reply to This ]



All of those are violations.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by foxyshadis1 on Mon Mar 06, 2006 at 01:03:49 PM PDT

Ebay will still remove the auction and/or impose fines if they find out you do either of those. In the worst case, they'll look over all of your old auctions and hit your paypal or ebay account for back fees on every violation. Their forums are full of stories and gripes. I'm pretty sure it's stated that you cannot attempt to circumvent fees in this way in a policy document.

Personal accounts have another limit: $2000 total in+out before you have to tie it to a bank account, after which they have more control over you financially. (If you go over the limit they'll freeze your account until you get a verified bank account on file.)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Incorrect[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
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Correct, these are violations[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 07, 2006 at 03:51:14 PM PDT

Poster is correct. As per the very restrictive PayPal policy, these are violations as per https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help&ui_mode=answer&prior_transaction_id=0& ;action_code=4&answer_id=11062883&leafid=1089945&_PPP=511&_PPC=34&_FI=Auctions_& amp;_Logos which states in part: Additionally, sellers can not communicate to eBay buyers (for example, in an item description) that they only accept, or will not accept, certain forms of PayPal payments. and: Violations of this policy include language such as: * "I do not accept credit card payments." * "I only accept PayPal payments made with account balances or bank account transfers." * "I only accept PayPal if the bid amount is greater than $15.00 USD." * "I only have a Personal PayPal account and only accept those kinds of payments."

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


It depends on how you word it[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 08:40:01 AM PDT

If you do not check the box on the listing that says you accept PayPal payments, then it's perfectly acceptible for you to say that you cannot accept PayPal credit card payments elsewhere in the listing, as fair warning to potential buyers who may think otherwise. Equivalent to saying that you can't accept personal checks.

It would be a problem if you indicate that you accept PayPal payments and then try to impose limitations elsewhere in your listing.

It would be a problem if you don't check the PayPal payment method box and then state elsewhere in your listing that you do accept only certain kinds of PayPal payments.

It's all a matter of semantics and careful wording.

If your buyer decides on his or her own to try to pay you with PayPal, after you've not listed it as a payment method, then that's his or her own business, not eBay's. And unless eBay has a way to monitor private communications between buyer and seller, there's no way for eBay to discover this collusion. PayPal does not prohibit you from paying for an eBay auction that doesn't list PayPal as a payment option (yet).

Bob

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Workaround[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 12:35:22 PM PDT

Here's an idea. First, set your start price so that it will include PayPal fees. Get both a Personal and a Premium PayPal account, and use the Premium account for your eBay sales. When someone buys your item, also mention your Private account in your invoice, let your customer choose to which PayPal account he wants to send his payment, and offer him a discount if he makes a non-creditcard payment to your Personal account. There's a lot you're not allowed to do on eBay, but they don't have rules against sellers offering discounts to their customers!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


y[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#98)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Checking the box[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 06, 2006 at 10:07:36 AM PDT

Does this policy apply if you select "Other" for forms of payment accepted and don't check the "I accept paypal" box when creating the listing?

If you do this, the listing doesn't show up as "accepts paypal" in a search or have the Paypal and credit card logos attached to it, but I have had no problem with Ebay cancelling listings - and I've listed things that way for years.  Like the poster, I don't use Paypal to accept money on Ebay often enough to suck up their fees for all non-ebay transactions.

Buyers seem to understand that if there are no credit card logos displayed anywhere in the listing, "I do not accept credit card payments through Paypal" means no credir cards.


[ Reply to This ]



Re: Checking the box[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 06, 2006 at 01:24:06 PM PDT

Buyers seem to understand that if there are no credit card logos displayed anywhere in the listing, "I do not accept credit card payments through Paypal" means no credir cards.

Because of Ebay's methods of operation, they often rely on buyers to report fraudulent auctions. Not only is the above still in violation of Ebay's ToS, but a number of people have become "Ebay vigilantes" who have nothing better than to search out auctions all day, and report those they find in violation.

I am the original submitter of this story. In my case, I was told that my auctions were reported. What I believe happened is that someone found one of my auctions, found the "I accept non-credit card PayPal only" in the listings, and then searched all my auctions (four at the time). Finding that all said that, they reported all four and had them yanked.

There are many stories in Ebay's forums where this type of reporting by Ebay users has been misused. More importantly though, if you violate the above terms-of-service in the manner you have mentioned, and are reported, Ebay can suspend your account temporarily, or indefinitely, removing years of hard-earned feedback.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Sellers try and make their own rules[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 07, 2006 at 01:25:39 PM PDT

My wife recently ran into a problem with using a credit card to purchase an item. She only bids on items that accept paypal because, as a buyer, using a credit card offers protection. Though the seller listed paypal (with credit cards) as the pay option, he twice declined payment by credit card. In answer to her query, he stated, he didn't care what Ebays rules were, these were his rules. After she forwarded a link to him concerning the TOS, he quickly upgraded his account and her transaction went through. Being geeky though, I know he isn't in Pennsylvania as his data reflects but is in Texas, where I tracked him down and have a valid home address and phone number. Just in case there is any problem. I have to be leery when I can track a person to an ISP that is nowhere near where he claims to be.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


tracking on the web[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 07, 2006 at 04:06:38 PM PDT

If you did this to me and I found out about it you would have federal marshalls knocking on your door w/ an arrest warrant for cyberstalking. Not nice to say you suspect others of breaking the law when they are only trying to protect their personal information and you are, in fact, breaking federal laws yourself.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Give me a break[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 04:59:57 AM PDT

That guy did nothing at all illegal. It is as simple as going to somewhere like samspade and doing a geographical lookup. Are you saying he doesn't have the right to make sure the seller is not presenting fraudulent information? There is a big difference between stalking and verifying information.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Tracking a personal address is not illegal[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by ekuns on Sun Mar 12, 2006 at 07:56:45 PM PDT

Nor is using "whois" to find out where someone's ISP is. You used the word "cyberstalking," but this example is missing the "stalking" element. Can you name any federal laws this person broke? Can you name even one? You seem to be overreacting here.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


The choice: big fees or go home?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by EdGriebel on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 12:37:29 PM PDT

...Ebay can suspend your account temporarily, or indefinitely, removing years of hard-earned feedback.
So, seems to me that accepting a 2% fee on transactions may be acceptable compared with that alternative? The bottom line is that it might not be fair, but it's their ball and their rules, and I'd much rather sell stuff on ebay than any of their competitors despite these limitations.

-ed (who has had a "premier" account for years because of this rule.)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Re: The choice: big fees or go home?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 01:33:52 PM PDT

So, seems to me that accepting a 2% fee on transactions may be acceptable compared with that alternative? The bottom line is that it might not be fair, but it's their ball and their rules, and I'd much rather sell stuff on ebay than any of their competitors despite these limitations.

My result was to no longer accept PayPal at all. While it may lead to slightly lower maximum bids, I have a 100% feedback rating with enough feedback that people have confidence in me, and when I state "Due to Ebay's new policies regarding PayPal, I no longer accept PayPal payments" (I now accept certified check/money order only) it gives others a chance to message me and ask why. I've always had a polite answer to their question, and most people have chosen to bid despite me not accepting PayPal.

It may be Ebay's ball and their rules, but what's to stop us from to encouraging a change of rules, through a change of public opinion?. You admitted it may not be fair; if so, why not challenge unfairness where we find it? If enough people felt this was unfair to drop PayPal, Ebay might think twice about this change in service.

Will this happen? Probably not. But it doesn't mean that the awareness of it shouldn't be raised.

P.S. It isn't 2%, it's 2.9% + 30 cents on every transaction. So far, it appears that that charge doubles the cost of many Ebay auctions. I don't call that miniscule.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Another View of Big Fees[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 25, 2006 at 08:21:28 AM PDT

First, do I like paypal? Not really. But, at this point we really have no choice if you are an ebay seller. However, here's how I look at it. If people pay via paypal, I can ship it using paypal. This saves me the time of having to go to the post office, and the expense of delivery confirmation. This, to me, is well worth the 2.9% and $.30 per transaction fees. The free delivery confirmation compensates for the thiry cents, and I'm okay with the 2.9% fee to not have to take a trip to the post office dragging mu kids along....standing in line....etc. I was much more in favor of paypal once they added the postage options.

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RE: Another View of Big Fees[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 09:18:28 AM PDT

If people pay via paypal, I can ship it using paypal. This saves me the time of having to go to the post office, and the expense of delivery confirmation.

Even if someone doesn't pay via PayPal, you can still do this if you have a Personal PayPal account. PayPal is very much tied to Ebay, and this can be done through your "My Ebay" page, no matter how the buyer pays.

You can also just go to USPS.com and set up an account to print shipping labels from home without PayPal at all, billed to a credit or debit card. If you have no PayPal account, it's still no biggie.

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#83)
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EXILE[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#93)
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