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Plays For Sure, Unless It Doesn't

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 08:38:52 AM PDT

A big headache for customers in the era of convergence is that it's very hard to know for sure what media will play on what device. One reader recently discovered that's the case even when you buy a player that has the Microsoft "PlaysForSure" logo.

"My IRiver T30 MP3 player has Microsoft's 'PlaysForSure' logo," the reader wrote. "Unfortunately, this logo appears to be nothing more than idle boasting. I downloaded an audio recording of Moby Dick from Maryland's Digital eLibrary Consortium. I am able to listen to the files I downloaded on my PC by playing them on Windows Media Player. As per instructions, I used Windows Media Player's Sync feature to transfer the files to my T30 player. However, when I attempt to play the files, it starts to read each section but then blanks out. Bits of sound blast out, but that's it."

The reader called IRiver about the problem. "The first thing they told me to do was to reformat the firmware," the reader wrote. "I did that, but it didn't help, so I called again. I was told that it was a 'known problem.' They wouldn't give me any timeframe in which the problem would be fixed. I asked the person to keep the ticket open and document that it was a known problem, and to let me know when the problem would be solved. When I hung up, I went to their customer support site, and saw that he had closed my ticket. So I created a new ticket from their web site and explained the problem. They have yet to respond."

The reader also contacted the Maryland eLibrary consortium, whose FAQ contained the link that had originally sent him to the PlaysForSure site to find a compatible portable device. They referred him on to Overdrive.com, their media console provider which itself sports a "Plays Windows Media" logo on its site. "They tried to help me with the problem, but Overdrive confirmed there is a known problem with IRiver's T10 and T30 not being able to play protected WMA files."

So if playing Windows Media files is a known problem for the IRiver device, why does it still get the "PlaysForSure" logo? "I bought the T30 player because it had Microsoft's 'playsforsure' logo, but, unfortunately, it doesn't play files that play on the Microsoft Windows Media Player," the reader wrote. "Just what does 'plays for sure' mean, and what happens if it doesn't play for sure? Will Microsoft insist that IRiver drop its logo? I have since now my returned IRiver player and bought a Creative Zen Nano Plus. Thankfully, it really does play for sure."

< Licenses, Families, and Apple | Debit Card Breach Clouds Privacy Law Prospects >

Plays For Sure, Unless It Doesn't | 47 comments (47 topical) | Post A Comment

It should be PlaysFor Sure?????[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 12:30:18 PM PDT

With Microsoft the only thing for sure is Bill Gates will continue to be among the richest people on earth.

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Only one thing "Plays For Sure"[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by talmy on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 12:36:58 PM PDT

I've had 100% success with MP3. It always plays, and plays anywhere. Any file that has DRM, well, forget it.

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ipod, mac, linux users out of luck too[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by SamAbuelsamid on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 12:49:53 PM PDT

My local public libary in Ypsilanti, MI also recently started offering the same service from netlibrary.com. When they announced this I complained quite vigourously both on my blog and directly to the staff person at the library, who was responsible for this program. Doc Searls has also written about this on his blog because his local library also offers this "service". I was quite upset because the library was spending our tax dollars on a service that use MS drm. This makes it unusable by people patrons who use macs, linux or other non-windows os. It is also useless to the overwhelming majority of digital audio player users who have ipods. And thanks to the DMCA I can't tell people about the really easy way to convert the files to unprotected mp3 files that will play on anything by just using one open-source program.

[ Reply to This ]

unprotecting DRM[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 11:56:55 AM PDT

My iRiver mp3 player(not DRM compatible) encodes to mp3 on the fly so I just plugged in an audio cable and transferred some DRM songs that way. Its not convenient, mind you.

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by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:33:11 PM PDT

Netlibrary and Ipods[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 12:20:02 PM PDT

OCLC in Dublin, Ohio, is the company behind NetLibrary, and other library databases and tools. It was their decision to not support Ipods. The reason given is the DRM problem, and that you are only 'borrowing' an audio book, not owning it. My local public library also has NetLibrary, and I don't know what kind of complaints they are getting about it. I've drooled over the Ipods, but if I'm going to sink my money into a player, it's going to be one that I can get ebooks on. BTW, I'm a librarian.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

NetLibrary[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 12:01:52 PM PDT

The previous poster implied that OCLC started NetLibrary - this is wrong. As stated in this newspaper story http://www.thedailycamera.com/business/tech/12bnetl.html NetLibrary was in bankruptcy and was aquired by OCLC in January 2002. I have not yet researched the DRM implications of NetLibrary - they charge too much money for my poor library.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:35:52 PM PDT

WMA on iPods[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 01:11:43 PM PDT

It is not NetLibrary's fault that their product does not work on iPods, nor is it Microsoft's. Microsoft provides their DRM to anyone who asks, they do not withhold it from apple. Apple, having the market share, has decided to NOT incorporate DRM protected WMA support for the same reasons that they choose to be proprietary back in their hay-day.
By the same line of thinking, they will not allow other players access to their DRM technology. Thus causing a rift. If a user wishes to purchase a DRM protected WMA they must have a non-apple device, and if they wish to purchase a Apple DRM protected file they must have an iPod.
Please, don't hate Microsoft for something they didn't do.... there are plenty of real reasons. Take a good look at Apple for this debacle.

(This is of course a sidebar to the PlaysForSure discussion that MS might be to blame if you look at it as a police-your-partners issue.)

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:33:19 PM PDT

Tip of the Iceberg[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by srynas on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 03:33:20 PM PDT

The reader's complaint is a precursor to the tidal wave of Gripelog complaints to come when DRM technologies are involved. The "era of convergence" died with the passage of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

The Personal Computer created an "era of convergence" because of standardization. Now, The media industry, to "protect" its so called content are distributing proprietary(DRM)products that use stealth technology to modify(zombie)your computer in such a manner that you can not manage it and to deliver only the content that they want you to have. The Sony rootkit debacle is an example of what is to come. We have resurrected the "Tower of Babel"

Unfortunately, one of the side effects of these proprietary stealth installations, as the reader may have found out, is that the DRM technology may disable eixisting hardware either intentialy or by accident.

[ Reply to This ]

Oh? Is this a surprise?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 06:07:06 PM PDT

This problem has been happening more or less in a continuous manner since Microsoft released "PlayForSure". To me it is just "PrayForSure". I used iPods (4 in fact) and I enjoy every one of them. The iPods also do not use this Microsoft code, which I do not feel comfortable with. If Microsoft, together with its hardware partners that make MP3 players, can't get this right for such a long time, is it any surprising that they have all failed miserably in trying to compete with the iPod? I will never buy any MP3 player now, or in future, if it uses Microsoft code.

[ Reply to This ]

No, it's not... It's a typo![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 06:31:28 AM PDT

It should read: "PayForSure" ;-)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Re: No, it's not... It's a typo![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 10:26:42 PM PDT

Oh yeah, of course you are right, ha.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:00:44 PM PDT

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:33:14 PM PDT

Plays for sure -- not![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 06:48:10 PM PDT

I had almost exactly the same problem with the Boston Public Library, which also uses Overdrive. After my first T30 failed, I took it back to Best Buy and they exchanged it for another. I took that one home and downloaded a book before upgrading the Firmware. It played fine -- until I stopped it and tried to start it again. Then nothing but b-b-b-b-b-b until I turned if off. Ha, I thought, now I'll upgrade the firmware. Except that made it worse -- back to the constant rebooting of the player. So I, too, called iRiver customer support, who said, "There are so many WMA formats we can't support them all." Well, I said, what if I find out what format this is? Repeat: "There are so many WMA formats we can't support them all." That was it for me -- I went back to Best Buy, returned it and told the manager they needed to let their salespeople know that iRiver was simply lying about their product. I bought a Creative Zen Nano and have been happy since.

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by maderikapapa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:03:00 AM PDT

need a recommendation (zen Nano?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 09:58:34 AM PDT

I have had the same problems using overdrive and library book.s I have tried 3+ "playforsure" mp3 players...all had problems of one sort or another. I would love a recommendation of a MP3 Player that CAN successfully tranfsger an overdrive file (via wmp) IN correct chapter order, that features a hold , button and can skip back or forwards a few seconds at a time.

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:35:35 PM PDT

Please...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 11:33:51 AM PDT

As long as there is a speck of individuality and creativity left in the world, there will be differences. That means that there will be competition. That means yes, heaven forbid, there will be different computers and OSs. I love the way people talk about a "rift" or "non-compatibility" with Microsoft "standards". They sound so much like old Soviet commisars. "Sure, comrade, you have many ways to do things exactly our way." Right. Maybe the concept of renting an audiobook is just dumb to begin with? Apple and Emusic acknowledge this fact about music -- people won't rent it. The choice is between piracy or buying. Rent models don't work for music and they don't for digital audio content provided by libraries either. Librarians who think that they can pull off what Napster and Real can't are idiots.

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Same provblem[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
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