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The eBay Gulag

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 09:14:34 AM PDT

It's a vast, murky prison system of which the outside world knows practically nothing. Inmates can find themselves exiled to its depths without warning or trial, without clear charges or the right to defend themselves, and without knowing if and when they - and perhaps their families and associates as well - will ever be released. Guantanamo? Secret CIA jails? No, we're talking about eBay's account suspension procedures.


A reader who has just encountered it provides a small window into this dark world. "I've been selling things on eBay for a bunch of years," the reader wrote. "One of my accounts was created in 2000. I've helped a bunch of friends, family and neighbors sell and buy on eBay. There's three accounts that we've been using for over five years now, all with 99 percent or better ratings and no negative ratings in more than a year. So I was very surprised to get an e-mail saying all three accounts were suspended last week because of a supposed link to another account (created in 2004) that appears to be someone else's."

The original notice from eBay told the reader only that the action had been taken for unspecified violations of eBay's User Agreement and that he was indefinitely suspended from using the accounts or registering any new ones. At first he wondered if the notice might just be a spammer spoof, but his accounts really were frozen and his appeals to eBay customer service yielded form responses only reiterating he was suspended because of his alleged association with the 2004 account.

Since the reader has helped a number of his family and neighbors get started on eBay, many of them on the same broadband network as he, the reader isn't sure what evidence eBay may have seen that linked him to the suspect account. But what really bewildered him was that, while his three accounts were suspended, the 2004 account still seemed to be up and running. "The account eBay says we are linked to is for a currently active seller with a name that clearly isn't me. I don't know why they linked my accounts to that one, but why isn't that one suspended also?"

In frustration over his inability to get anyone to listen to his pleas, the reader finally called the office of the eBay division president. This resulted in an e-mail from that office stating that the matter had been reviewed and he had been judged guilty:

"At this time the matter has been fully reviewed, your account will remain suspended. While your account is suspended, you are prohibited from registering under a new account name or using eBay in any way. Please also keep in mind, eBay reserves the right to suspend accounts opened by anyone in the same household of a suspended member, or by any other associates of a suspended member. Although any future emails from you will be read, unless they contain additional information regarding this account suspension, we will be unable to respond."

This struck the reader as being awfully heavy-handed on eBay's part. "So I and my family and 'associates' are barred from eBay for life? My life, or even my family members lives, since, even after I die, they are still my family? The scarlet 'A' hangs over even them for how long? It seems ludicrous -- even murderers and other felons know how long their sentences will be for. If I knew why I was suspended or given a chance to defend myself, it might be different. Keeping the online world safe is a noble cause, but it seems that eBay is going too far."

And since he doesn't know why eBay considers him an associate of the 2004 account, who else could be banned under this imperial rescript? "What constitutes an associate?" the reader wondered. " We have DHCP cable service in this area. So if anyone in my neighborhood gets assigned an IP address eBay associates with me, will eBay close their accounts too? I am not going to be very popular in town. Can I bring things to a friend to sell for me? What about the storefronts -- are they associates? I feel like Kevin Mitnick, like I'm not allowed to touch a computer. But at least he knew when his sentence would be over, and why he was arrested. I haven't been arrested, but the eBay police have me locked up pretty effectively anyway."

Of course, eBay is a private company and has the right to not do business with anyone it decides is a bad guy. If a company treats its customers unfairly, we are told, the marketplace will correct it. But what about when the company is the marketplace, as eBay is for so many online buyers and sellers. Is it fair they can be put in e-commerce jail by association and without any appeal except to their jailers? It would seem to me that to do its job, the open marketplace eBay aspires to be has to be a lot more open than it is.

--------------------

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The eBay Gulag | 11 comments (11 topical) | Post A Comment
Ebay's heavy handed policies[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by auctionhugh on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 06:33:51 PM PDT

As someone who associates with several ebay sellers, it is not at all unusual to have your auctions yanked for having "copyright or trademark infringing photos or text" and not be able to figure out what the problem was.

I realize this is a tangental comment, but the issue is communicating. I am allowed to sell a used dell monitor, but if I copy and paste the specs on the monitor from the Dell website, I am infringing on the dell copyright somehow.

It is all very confusing, and not open to any real appeal process.

It is not like ebay has any real competition in the marketplace so to say market forces will keep them doing the right thing is kind of a stretch.

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[ Reply to This ]


Ebay: the judge, the jury and the executioner[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anton7849 on Tue Dec 12, 2006 at 03:33:21 AM PDT

I have a better story to tell you. I have been suspended and reinstated on eBay several times. As a matter of fact, after four years with no issues/problems of any kind I just had my 3rd year anniversary of the 1st time I was suspended by them for some weird cause.

The beef that I have now with this monopoly is that they do not follow their own rules/policy. I am talking specifically about their "fair shipping" policy. You see, they shut down auctions right now if they "feel" that you charge too much for S/H fees. I have been suspended and reinstated and talked to 10 reps, (yes, literally ten eBay CS reps), and every single one of them gave me a different answer. Since some of them were talking to me from the position of power, they can do this when they are holding all the cards and have this type of leverage over you. They are the judge, the jury and the executioner of your sentence.
If you do not see the irony in that, and that there are no checks and balances in that system, it gets worse. I am talking about their "fair shipping policy".

Guess what?
1. They cannot give you a clear answer as to what "fair shipping fees" are. They say that it is written down and that it is "confidential information." And therefore cannot send me a copy of their policy! So it seems they would prefer me to violate their policy rather than educate me; they would rather suspend me, than make it crystal clear as to what the policy actually is.

2. The FAIR shipping fees that they have in their own eBay Shop are HIGHER than what they want their sellers to charge.

How does that work? Why do they want me to charge less than they charge for the same value item? They are a big company and charge more than what I charge, or what they want me to charge, for the same shipping service. Why the double standard? Maybe, because they cannot make money, or maybe the shipping charges are actually more than they want us sellers to charge, which forces us to lose money!

And guess what they sell in their store ~ You've guessed it, eBay promotional stuff. Why are they selling all this promo stuff anyway, they should be paying us to wear it and advertise for them, and then definitely ship it for FREE, or for less than I do.

3. Ebay policy requires any seller to have a phone number, but guess what? Their shop doesn't have one.

4. Ebay policy states that you cannot have your s/h charges as a percentage of your sale price. And yes, you guessed it again. They have that included in their sales prices as well.

I am not just complaining. No. I proposed many solutions to this issue and others as well (you didn't think there was only one?), they all fell on deaf ear. Do they not see that they are killing their own sellers. Or are they just scared that this won't last, so they are trying to get paid now. I thought they were supposed to facilitate win-win transactions between buyers and sellers and charge a fee for that. Instead they are trying to influence our behavior to maximize their profit. And doing it at all costs.

So, how can I listen to a company that violates its own policy and is trying to kill its base? I would guess that for 5 billion/year NET profit, they can hire someone to at least check on that part of their business, to have a discussion on how to improve it for all parties involved.

Oh, but I forgot, they are the judge, the jury and the executioner....

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


"Confidential Rules"[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by BigManTate on Tue Dec 19, 2006 at 01:51:44 PM PDT

1. They cannot give you a clear answer as to what "fair shipping fees" are. They say that it is written down and that it is "confidential information." And therefore cannot send me a copy of their policy! So it seems they would prefer me to violate their policy rather than educate me; they would rather suspend me, than make it crystal clear as to what the policy actually is.

That sounds as bad as Comcast suspending users for using too much "UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH" and telling the users that they can't divulge the supposed unlimited limit. Sounds like monopolistic bully tactics to me. :)

Allen Tate
www.AllenTateComputing.com
[ Parent | Reply to This ]



mac video soft[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Not a Copyright Violation[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by srynas on Tue Dec 12, 2006 at 02:29:40 PM PDT

I do not believe this statement is a correct interpretation of copyright: "if I copy and paste the specs on the monitor from the Dell website, I am infringing on the dell copyright somehow." This is information that Dell is making publicly available to describe its product.

As consumers, we need to be more assertive about protecting our right to use information and NOT let the vendors define what our copryright rights are.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



eBay Gulag - punishing the wrong people[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by wmbennett on Tue Dec 12, 2006 at 03:36:05 PM PDT

My daughter dropped her older-model digital camera and broke it. Since she had an expensive underwater case for that particular model, she went to eBay to buy an exact replacement. The camera she purchased arrived in a non-operative state -- completely dead. She even took it to an authorized camera repair center, but was told it was unrepairable. After a long hassle from the seller, she went through eBay's appeal process and her claim was denied on the basis that the seller's listing didn't specifically say the camera was in operating condition! That seller, to my knowledge, is still doing business on eBay. Seems like they're issuing parking tickets while the real crooks go on ripping off buyers.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


The eBay Gulag continued....[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Misty on Tue Dec 12, 2006 at 03:35:21 PM PDT

I am a single mother attending my local community college to become a computer specialist.

I share the school's computer lab with my fellow students. Since the school disallows private Internet access due to file sharing issues, those of us in the computer lab petitioned the school to use the school's computers for our eBaying. The school granted us permission and even several of the teachers were given permission to establish eBay accounts and sell off old school property to make money for new supplies.

Everything was going smoothly. Then, 2 months ago my 2 year old daughter got sick and I had to take her to the emergency room. I don't have insurance and am already having a tough time making enough money for next semester's tuition. I reluctantly decided to sell off some of my audio CDs on eBay to help cover the cost. One of them was a limited edition radio station issued CD sampler containing old Christmas songs. 2 hours into the auction eBay cancelled it and suspended my account for 7 days saying I was a risk to the eBay community. After the 7 days were up I contacted them because my account was not made active as the email had indicated it would be. I still hadn't made enough money for my tuition and was anxious to proceed. Within 20 minutes an eBay representative informed me that eBay had decided to suspend my account indefinitely. The real reason for the decision was not disclosed to me, just that I am apparently "a risk to the eBay community".

Over the next few days every other person who accessed their eBay account from the school computers (137 accounts total) received emails from eBay stating their accounts had been suspended. No real explanations were given, just that we were all "a risk to the eBay community".

No doubt all of the accounts were linked together because they all use the same Internet connection; it's the only one the school has.

I have since found an eBay Suspension website that sheds some light on how eBay tracks each user's account and what can be done to ensure it doesn't happen in the future. Thanks to that site, I was able to successfully get back on eBay and make enough money to not only pay off my daughter's hospital bill, but also for next semester's tuition.

I am still curious why eBay would terminate all accounts used by the lab computers based solely on the assumption that they are all coming from the same Internet connection. Many of the teachers also had their accounts terminated. The school librarian even had her account terminated and all she sold were old books donated by the community. Since when is sharing an Internet connection a crime?

If eBay would investigate the matter, they would clearly see that an entire school shares a single dedicated Internet connection. It's easy to see if they would do a simple lookup on the IP. If I, a single mom taking a computer course at a small-town USA community college can do a reverse lookup on the IP and see that it is a university, surely eBay can do the same. Either they won't or they just don't care. Either way, it's a very unfair course of action on their part that has negatively impacted not only the lives of 137 account holders, but also the community as a whole. All eBay had to do was address the issue with my account, not the whole school's! Thankfully I was able to make it through the obstacle course, and I hope others reading this can benefit from my experience.

-Misty



[ Reply to This ]


Not defending, but explaining[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by nitpickin on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 09:01:20 AM PDT

Having come into contact with some frauds on ebay, they have a valid reason for suspecting accounts sharing an IP address, and being a university would not put you above suspicion. Often times, frauds will setup several accounts, and use those accounts to "sell" items between them, and, of course, post good ratings. Do this for a few months, or years, even, to appear to be a good seller, then, put up your fraudulent items, and wait for the checks to roll in. Much easier than trying to hack into an existing account. It may be the link to the 2004 account in the original story simply bought something from him, or one of his friends, at sometime. That said, ebay should have software monitoring behavior to catch this. From the complaints, I suspect they do not. It might be a good idea when sharing an IP address range to prohibit selling between accounts in that range, if at all possible. Should be easy enough for everyone sharing to conduct business with a phone call instead.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Do it with the phone instead??[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by LasVegan on Sat Dec 16, 2006 at 02:11:12 PM PDT

There's a big problem with that: You don't necessarily know that the person you are dealing with is sharing your IP until you get the shipping address. Furthermore, DHCP could cause someone with the same internet provider to have a matching IP.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Great Article, i agreee with you[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 09:49:37 PM PDT

dis j'ai jamais vu de poisson sans ouies........et avec une forme pareille.......Internet Marketing 迷你倉 護膚 .

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


dsafd[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
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