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Straining Earthlings' Terrestrial Intelligence

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 04:17:36 PM PDT

If you'd like to participate in the great quest for extraterrestrial life, you just have to have some spare capacity on your computer. Well, and maybe the smarts to deal with some software that doesn't work very well and the patience to tolerate some flaming from those you ask for help. That is what one long-time supporter of SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) says she has discovered in recent months.


"I recently received an e-mail from the SETI@home people at UC Berkeley asking me to re-up in lending my computer resources to their search for extraterrestrial intelligence," the reader wrote. "In the past this involved installing a little screensaver replacement application that crunched numbers instead of just showing a pretty picture when it was screensaving. Then a year or so ago SETI switched to some new and incompletely engineered software called BOINC. I dumped the program, as did many others at the time."

But as an IT professional for almost 30 years, the reader has seen a few applications that got rolled out too soon but were ultimately made workable. "When I was solicited to return to the program, I figured they must have solved the many problems expected of a pre-beta bit of software, since that is what BOINC certainly seemed to be when I tried to it the first time. Unfortunately, I see no meaningful difference in the current version of the software. I've now had some problems with the software using massive bandwidth even when I had totally disabled it. Apparently you have to check and/or change a number of settings to prevent this behavior."

When the reader visited the SETI project's tech help message board, she was discouraged to see her problems were minor compared to those other would-be BOINC users were suffering. "There are so many problems with the software that the board has literally thousands of requests for help on the most trivial installation issues imaginable. You cannot even change local preference like the screensaver mode without logging onto the server and forcing an update routine. These are things that ought to have gone totally smoothly -- after all, BOINC is just a vastly glorified screensaver. And it often appeared that anyone with problems with the software would be flamed by the tech support volunteers as an incompetent moron for not fishing through the software to find its many switches and checkboxes."

But what really convinced the reader that the BOINC software is really not ready for public consumption were the many message board posts related to overheating problems that the software can cause, particularly with some laptops. "If you read through their rules and policies, you see they do warn that the 'applications run by SETI@home may cause some computers to overheat,' and that you are responsible for monitoring your CPU with a separate utility program," the reader wrote. "You're supposed to be able to control CPU usage with BOINC, but that's just another one of the things they've promised -- along with all the new and improved and wonderful interfaces -- that never seem to arrive."

Why, the reader had to wonder, did SETI summon back its old users before it had fixed the problems with BOINC that had driven them away? Even more disturbing to her was the way complaints from users of the old screensaver were being handled on the tech support message board. "Within the boards you regularly see the tech support people telling users there are no overheating problems and to go ahead and use it. And not only do they flame any professionals who point out their errors, they will go back later and 'moderate' the conversation to make themselves sound better and to make everyone who complains seem to be just some cretinous child pointlessly flaming them. To see that kind of treatment is aggravating because I proselytized heavily with my colleagues on behalf of this program. It is the overall lack of professionalism and willingness to give out bogus advice at the official site that gets to me."

And what will the ultimate BOINC effect be on the science that SETI and other projects are trying to accomplish? "I just can't understand why they couldn't have been a little more patient and waited until the software was actually ready to be put in the hands of average users," the reader writes. "They have managed to lose a huge numbers of users because of this software, and how many will be willing to try it yet again the next time they tell us it's ready for primetime? It just seems like a gigantic boondoggle in that one can have little faith in the science being performed invisibly by this software when the obvious parts of it work so poorly. I have to doubt that much of the research being done by BOINC will fly in peer-reviewed journals since there is no comparable network of distributed computing to test BOINC results against."

Got a story of your own to tell about software that doesn't work or support that doesn't help? Call the Gripe Line at 1 888 875-7916 or write me at Foster@gripe2ed.com.

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Straining Earthlings' Terrestrial Intelligence | 19 comments (19 topical) | Post A Comment
Sadly Common[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by foxyshadis1 on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 08:43:25 PM PDT

Hmm, is excessive forum drama surrounding crappy, dead free software really a front-page worthy gripe? It's happened to numerous projects, off the top of my head there's ePSXe. It's sad, but the best thing to do would be to switch to folding@home or one of the other non-BOINC projects out there.

There is, however, a development version of BOINC available - probably buggy itself, but at least potentially more useful, and offering projects the capability of doing CPU throttling right from the client-side gui.

I'm actually somewhat shocked if the common answer on the forum isn't "try the development version first", because most projects will usually ask that before you file any bug reports, feature requests, and sometimes esoteric support requests. Then again, if idiots are running the show, it's no big surprise, but not having visited myself I can't say.

[ Reply to This ]



But it's not free to the end user[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by swaim on Mon Nov 27, 2006 at 03:03:50 PM PDT

The whole point of seti@home and folding@home is that the end user is donating spare cycles. So it's excessove forum drama directed at people making donations. That strikes me as shooting yourself in the foot more than a little bit.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


folding@home - no problems[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 10:01:23 AM PDT

I've been running folding@home for several years, and even through an upgrade or two, with nary a problem. The application's been solid and pleasantly well-behaved.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Today's students are tomorrow's employees[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by kellyl1 on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 10:12:58 AM PDT

I've tried using BOINC and seti@home. The new version is buggy at best. It is poorly implemented, documented and tested. The people coding this are potentially the next generation of people coding the applications and operating systems we use. Bad habits are hard to unlearn. I say hold them to a high standard at school, before they can escape into the workplace.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Lousy Programmers[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by kimo on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 01:19:52 PM PDT

Somebody should have trained Bill Gates and his Cronies at M$ before they even started the company. Think of all the headaches that would have removed!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Great Article, i agreee with you[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 10:19:04 PM PDT

dis j'ai jamais vu de poisson sans ouies........et avec une forme pareille.......Internet Marketing 迷你倉 護膚 .

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


BOINC[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 02:55:12 PM PDT

I have been running BOINC for over a year, through two machines and operating systems without problems. I don't lend it to the looking for ET programs, but for cancer research and the like. The screen saver is kind of nifty to watch occasionally, but I use others. BOINC uses my machine approximately 12-16 hours a day. I develop software and have numerous applications and occassionally "Server Programs" running on my machine as well with no conflicts or loss of performance. I do have 4 gigs of RAM however, and that might have a bit to do with it.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


I'm glad BOINC works for some ...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 05:22:26 PM PDT

I find the idea of donating my unused cycles appealing. However, BOINC isn't for everyone. I am a very experienced computer user and delved deeply into the BOINC controls. It is clear that the controls don't necessarily pull back on the reins when that is intended. I too have 4 gigs of RAM and usually had little if any performance degradation. But when there was a problem it was a large one. BOINC and several secure websites (such as my bank's and some online stores) cause both Firefox and IE to lock-up. From the time to keying ctl-alt-del to task manager opening was almost 10 seconds. BOINC and Reference Manager caused Windows XP to slow to a crawl. My real problem was with STATA and BOINC. If I worked with a dataset that was "too large" Windows just stopped. Nothing other than a forced power-down and restart would work. Without BOINC, the same dataset processed quickly. BOINC is off of my machine and everything works well.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Extra-Reality Expectations[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 12:20:37 PM PDT

That gripe reads very much like dashed expectations and a miss-match of preconceptions.

The real "buggyness" revealed if anything is that Boinc is greatly more ambitious than the Classic seti@home 'screensaver' ever was. Boinc is not even a screensaver! (Boinc manages other project applications and those applications can then display pretty graphics as output or as a 'screensaver display'.)

A second piece to the "buggyness" is the difficulty in communicating clearly what it is all about, and how, and in terms that can be clearly understood by everyone. Also, how to fully automate everything such that it is all just a "one-click" operation for a participant.

What is there NOW and what is working NOW, all works well. However, that "NOW" is very much not just a simple single click "screensaver".

If you are looking for just a 'screensaver' with zero commitment, then sorry but you are going to be very disappointed. Meanwhile, a lot of real work and real science are getting done by many people.

The Boinc + projects (+ screensaver) effort is very worthwhile and worth trying out. The "simple one-click" GUI is being worked on and gets released later.

But then again, the present setup is as simple as it gets for installing software and then "attaching" that to a web-forum-like account!

Good luck!

(PS: Sorting out the html here for formatting this answer is far more difficult than the Boinc 'user experience'!!!)



[ Reply to This ]


No problems with BOINC[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 12:32:52 PM PDT

I have been using BOINC since the old SETI@home program shut down. I use it on a half-dozen various desktops and servers, Linux, Win2K, and WinXP. I have not had a problem with BOINC at all.

I have never tried using it on a laptop, though, but I don't have any laptops that I leave up and running overnight when I'm not using it.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Another Satisfied User[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by steigdg1 on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 01:09:18 PM PDT

I have been using SETI for years, and had no problem with BOINC since they switched. Well, actually I am having problems with the Climate Change Experiment crashing every couple of weeks, but no problems with SETI, Einstein, or the protein folding application that I have been running. Yes there are problems discussed in the forums, that is what they are for. Of course, I haven't visited the SETI forums because I haven't had any problems there... Sounds like a more of a support problem than a software problem to me.
David Steigerwald
[ Parent | Reply to This ]


This says it all[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 05:52:18 PM PDT

Mr. "That gripe reads very much like dashed expectations and a miss-match of preconceptions" sounds like one of the snide moderators on the forum you would not want to have to deal with.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Too quick to judge[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by OzzFan on Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 08:14:21 PM PDT

Why automatically assume that the person you replied to is snide? Because they used good logic and had a valid point? Last time I checked, that isn't "snide", but giving one's opinion.
Why automatically assume the person you replied to is just like one of the moderators? Unless you are the person from the GripeLine trying to discredit this person's opinion, which happens to be the same M.O. of Caroline (the person who complained to the GripeLine).
Personally, I think the person you replied to made a valid point. If you want to discredit it, show your logic instead of pointing fingers.
Or is it that anyone who disagrees with you (or Caroline) must be rude or snide?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


SETI[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 28, 2006 at 02:35:29 PM PDT

OK people, let's keep in mind this is a project to search for signs of alien, intelligent life in the universe. What level of professionalism did you expect it to maintain? Granted, it is taking a very scientific, mudane approach, but we are still talking Little Green Men. Exhaustively studying the length of the blades of grass in my lawn would not make it any more worthwhile. And, if you signed up for my distributed client to crunch numbers about my lawn, you get the support you deserve.

[ Reply to This ]


Bionic not to blaim for overheating[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 01:58:12 AM PDT

How is software responsible for a CPU overheating? The software just tries to make the best of the CPU, if that overheats the CPU, is that not the fault of the computer manufacture? Were you not ripped off? I mean that if you have a 3 ghz CPU that over heats if it executes more than 2 g/sec, why didn't the manufacture sell you a 2ghz at a lower price? Are you not getting a 2ghz CPU at a 3ghz price? If someone sold me a computer and said, by the way, make sure any software you run takes a lot of breaks, otherwise this puppy will overheat, I would not blame the software. Dennis

[ Reply to This ]


seti and boinc[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 11:33:01 AM PDT

Been running seti and boinc from the beginning on multiple computers and OS's. Problems have been minor to non-existant. Perhaps its only the author's intelligence that has been strained.

[ Reply to This ]


Software Reliability[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by foxyshadis1 on Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 02:30:53 AM PDT

Almost all moderately complex software has problems affecting some percentage of its userbase that don't come up for others. Depending on the bugginess it can be something like .5% who has one specific PCMCIA driver card to 30% for all manner of reasons. It's just the nature of software interaction.

And I checked the forums, BOINC is definitely not bugfree, with a long litany of minor problems (and a couple major), as you'd figure from anything that's gone through so many iterations. For the most part it works pretty well, some people just believe it should have focused on things like cpu throttling earlier.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Typical techie response[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by cmcphate on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 07:43:46 PM PDT

This is just the type of reaction the user is talking about on the forums. Instead of accepting that this user may have legitimate problems with the software, you insult their intelligence.

As a member of the tech community, I find this kind of reaction disgusting. Sadly, it's also all too prevalent. This may be a free program, but we are donating our CPU cycles, which means we're donating a lot of electricity and by extension, money, to this project. And it's not a trivial amount, either, considering electricity rates these days. It'd be far cheaper to just let the computer go to sleep when we're not using it.

Many of the geeks among us really need an attitude adjustment. I've read posts where it took longer for the person to flame the user than it would have taken to post the solution. So what if the user could have figured it out on their own after reading the manual? It's not a matter of laziness on the user's part; not everyone has time to spend hours reading documentation or message boards to find a poorly documented solution to an obscure bug.

Posting the solution to the problem rather than complaining about the question will make it easier for other users to find the solution later, reducing the number of times the question gets asked.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Defend a user without knowing what they were like[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by OzzFan on Sun Mar 18, 2007 at 08:09:20 PM PDT

I'm all for being nice to people, even if they don't understand something I do. I cannot stand such arrogance that would make one feel or believe themselves to be superior to another simply because they don't know something I do. My own philosophies in life won't allow me to be rude. That being said, there's a couple points to be made. No one ever said she didn't have a legit problem. It's when she was helped that she argued with everyone and told everyone there they didn't know what they're talking about - or insisted that *she* was a "30 year professional", in other words, only look to complain and not really willing to learn or listen. Further, she would constantly flame all over the help boards every single volunteer helper, which is unprofessional and unhelpful any which way you slice it, customer or not. For being a "30 year pofessional", she sure didn't have too much of a problem belittling everyone else and insulting their intelligence (sure, some might have deserved it, but she didn't have to take it out on everyone there). I really wish you could have experienced her first hand to know what she was like. It's quite unfair to absolve her of all responsibility just because she was the one asking for help. Help is always a two way street. All too often you hear of these "horror" stories, and sometimes the person has a legitimate case or complaint, but people need to stop and ask themselves how patient, how willing the customer was. You can't help someone that's already convinced themselves you don't know what you're talking about when you can prove, and have proven that you do. In this one case, it was not an issue of arrogant geeks not willing to help or quick to insult her, rather it was quite the opposite I assure you.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


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