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Oracle Security Patch Causes Insecurity

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 01:19:08 AM PDT

To patch or not to patch - that is the question for many software customers. And it's particularly tricky one to answer when the software company won't say what the patch is for, as one reader discovered with a recent Critical Patch Update released by Oracle for PeopleSoft.


"On October 18, I received an e-mail notification from Oracle/PeopleSoft that they released new path levels for their products that contain critical fixes, urging that we install them," the reader wrote. "For the company I work for, this meant upgrading our PeopleTools release from 8.46.10 to 8.46.16. Over the years we've been running PeopleSoft, we've learned that we can't just take them at their word because we have always experienced some transitional instability and performance hits in the past with PeopleTool upgrades, without exception. We simply do not update the software unless there is a pressing need that addresses known, specific issues that affect our implementations."

"I opened a support case to learn the details behind the critical issues Oracle was concerned about with the patch," the reader wrote. "Details were not -- and are not -- available on their website. I received an e-mail directing me to information on their website that gave no specific information about the nature of the critical fixes. I then called and wound up speaking with a support manager."

The Oracle support manager told the reader it was against Oracle policy to provide the information he needed for his risk assessment. "As a matter of policy, Oracle does not disclose detailed information about an exploit condition or results that can be used to conduct a successful exploit," the Oracle manager told him in one e-mail. "Oracle will not provide additional information about the specifics of vulnerabilities beyond what is provided in the CPU or Security Alert notification, the Patch Availability Matrix, the readme files, and FAQs."

The reader pleaded that without more information he could not possibly do the risk assessment his company naturally wanted to do before making its decision. As he wrote the Oracle support manager: "Please understand that some managers at some companies expect their IT people to provide justifications for why and when critical patches are or are not implemented. I work for just such a company and yes, I do have management seeking explanations in regards to this PeopleTools patch ... We cannot plan on diverting IT resources to implementing these patches without this information so that we can perform our own risk analysis. I hope that merely mentioning the name Microsoft conjures specters of failed patches and thousands of hours spent by thousands of IT professionals around the world futilely attempting to keep their systems properly patched."

When that yielded no useful details about the patch, the reader tried one more time to explain to Oracle why he needed to know more. "Oracle sends out this alert and expects us to jump with no information on which to base a business decision," he wrote Oracle. "Do we have the staff to do it? What other projects will suffer due to diverting resources to applying the update? That's just the beginning. You do not account for the time it takes to follow Oracle's own recommended procedures for applying patches: apply to demo environment, compare to test environment, apply to test environment, test, compare to production environment, apply to production environment, pray nothing breaks. That doesn't even take into account that all development on all PeopleSoft-related projects is halted or delayed because we can't develop at one patch level and apply it to an application running at a different patch level during the time it takes to evaluate a patch/update and apply it to a production environment. It can take up to three months to do this properly. The timeframe can be shortened, of course, but again, we have no information on which to base any decisions. ALL of these considerations are part of the decision making process, regardless of consideration to critical issues."

Ultimately, though, his requests fell on deaf ears. "The bottom line is simply that, despite the fact we're paying thousands of dollars per year for 'support' from them, Oracle will not disclose the information we require. I know from my phone conversations with the support manager that mine is not the only company pressing for specific information about the patch. I can only imagine the IT staff of those organizations are pulling their collective hair out. Our decision, given that we cannot justify the interruption to MIS activities and a certain amount of inevitable system downtime in the face of no information from which to base a decision, is to not install the latest patch. Risks be damned, Oracle be damned, but if no one will disclose the information we require, how can we justify any other decision?"

After all, there's no security in a security update that may cause a customer more problems than it fixes. What's your take on Oracle's patch policy? Call the Gripe Line at 1 888 875-7916 or write me at Foster@gripe2ed.com.

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Oracle Security Patch Causes Insecurity | 23 comments (23 topical) | Post A Comment
Welcome to the Oracle Security Crapshoot Club[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 11:50:10 AM PDT

These are precisely the same problems/discussions I had with Oracle (for Oracle Application Server) over a year ago when they first started up the quarterly CPU (Critical Patch Update - nice acronym, eh?) process. I got the same runaround and denials. I gave up, and just try to make sure we have fallback plans. If you search around the web for articles on this issue, you will find a lot of hits, along with the ones about how they can't seem to quite pin down the fixes (SQL injection seems to be a perennial one). M$ indeed! I did find an official blog run by Oracle: http://blogs.oracle.com/security/ and it even invites comments on all their self-congratulatory explanations. I did not know where to start, and probably would have to stay anonymous to protect my company (and job ;-). Now just imagine how this will play with their "support" for RedHat Server products... ROC

[ Reply to This ]


Oracle Support Is Excellent In My Experience[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 11:58:22 AM PDT

I hear what you are saying. It sounds pretty bad. But let me say this. Oracle Support has been very, very good to me, granted I never raised any issues discussed in the article. Oracle Support has very knowledgable people and they work efficiently to bring about rapid solutions. I am very, very happy with Oracle Support. I love how they can connect to your desktop and resolve issues remotely. Love it!

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Support is ok, but secretiveness is NOT[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 12:56:19 PM PDT

I am not quarreling with their support quality. I have had a few duds, and the language barrier with non-native English speakers can be considerable sometimes, but their people are sharp overall.

The issue is this nonsense about not wanting to divulge enough details to evaluate the applicability of fixes to a particular installation in the name of preventing exploits. Diligent searching on the net will unearth most of that, but we should not have do that to get on with fulfilling our responsibilities to validate proposed patches. I have found several over the last 1.5 years in the CPU's for Oracle Application Server (caused "recall" of the Windows version for about 2nd quarter last year as I recall - thank goodness I ran it on a test installation under VMware ;-).

ROC

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Correction...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 12:59:08 PM PDT

That is to say: I have found several buggy patches over the last 1.5 years in the CPU's for Oracle Application Server...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


I don't know about you...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 02:59:26 PM PDT

...but personally, those "remote piloting" help capabilities give me the willies. How do I know they won't misuse them and go poking their noses into confidential stuff, or worse?

To paraphrase Sony's Thomas Hesse: "Most people, I think, don't even know what a back door is, so why should they care?" :)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



It's worse[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 03:45:41 PM PDT

If you have remote "help" (i.e. remote administration) software running, it's a point of vulnerability to hackers. Besides the danger of authorized people misusing it, it might be susceptible to an exploit of some sort.

Of course, you may only run the software during a support incident (which limits the window of vulnerability and makes any misuse likely to be by the authorized user exceeding their mandate). Even then, if such software is widespread, it enables a hacker to spread a virus or Trojan that doesn't have the heavy baggage of a full remote admin server built in, but just sniffs for one or another preexisting one and turns it on, perhaps also configuring it with a port and password the hacker programmed into their virus.

The potential for this "botnet already made-to-order" disaster scenario is driven home by the realization that the virus can probably then fit into a single network packet, and therefore could spread as fast as the Slammer worm...now it's "instant botnet, just add water". Push the button and 0wn about 3 million PCs 10 minutes later!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Great Article, i agreee with you[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 10:16:07 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


222[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
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22[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
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Oracle OR Peoplesoft[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 12:21:22 PM PDT

While I don't work with Peoplesoft, I do visit Oracle's support site regularly, and, I do not see much Peoplesoft material there. Indeed, it appears that Oracle's support site treats Peoplesoft the same as any Oracle-Using-Application. That being the case, I wonder if the poster was really calling the original Peoplesoft company, and getting the official Peoplesoft line. In which case, blaiming "Oracle" for the problem makes as much sense as blaiming "Ford" for problems with your Volvo, or "Time" for problems with your AOL connection, or "Disney" when you don't like your ESPN Game of the Week.

[ Reply to This ]


This is the STANDARD Oracle Policy stance![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 12:49:10 PM PDT

See my comment (#1, Welcome to Oracle...). This across the board policy for ALL of their products' CPU's. ROC

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Oracle IS PeopleSoft[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 01:28:27 PM PDT

PSFT has been completely absorbed by Oracle. The writer could have simply said 'Oracle' instead of PSFT and nothing would be different.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Kissing to be clever, newspeak to avoid candor[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by DavidBSpalding on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 02:13:50 PM PDT

My BS filter gagged, clogged and shutdown on this one:

"As a matter of policy, Oracle does not disclose detailed information about an exploit condition or results that can be used to conduct a successful exploit," the Oracle manager told him in one e-mail.

Sorry, Oracle, but saying "we have uncovered a plasma conduit overflow problem with teh Heisenberg compensators, resulting in holodeck presentation instability" is NOT the same as providing sufficient information to exploit. The only way that a business summary explanation of an exploit WOULD provide enough to duplicate it is if the software is of such insecure standards that just mentioning "quatro-triticale" blows the barn doors wide open. Oracle's security support personnel are using too much "spin control wax" on their surfboards. Does anyone remember the Sony exec, Thomas Hesse, and his infamous, "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"

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Self-Serving[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 02:34:51 PM PDT

Does anyone else smell an Oracle conflict of interest here?

Oracle says that they don't want to disclose enough information to harmfully use the exploit. OK, there's a point to be made there.

On the other hand, they are refusing to disclose information about products they made and/or acquired. So they are responsible, ultimately, for the existence of those exploits. (Sorry, but the It's PeopleSoft Code, Not Oracle excuse won't wash).

Is Oracle really protecting unpatched customers against hostile code/people/organizations? Or are they obscuring the number, severity, and general exploitability of their own security exposures?

This issue boils down to trust. Oracle doesn't trust you, but they want you to trust them. Don't they have any basic authentication mechanisms? It shouldn't be very difficult to distinguish legitimate customers from www.hackers.from.upper.voltova.bug!

Other companies do this all the time.

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be thankful[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by JimB on Mon Dec 04, 2006 at 10:03:49 PM PDT

At least this is a patch that the peoplesoft team will support. At one time I was told by peoplesoft (before the acquisition) that they would not support critical OS security patches (that had already been out 6 months) and that there was no timeframe to get them supported. We dropped Psoft quicker than you can say microsoft.

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lingering[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
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wslaat[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
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m[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
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