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Lenovo Downgrades Return Policy

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Nov 13, 2006 at 10:24:12 AM PDT

Manufacturers can usually make the terms in their fine print harsher without anybody noticing. That's not the case for Lenovo this time, though, because a sharp-eyed reader just spotted the fact that the company's policy on product returns has gone from being one of the best in the laptop business to one of the worst.


"This fall I have been keeping an eye on IBM ThinkPads in anticipation of a purchase in early December," the reader wrote. "Around the end of October, I confirmed that Lenovo still offered their 30-day, no-questions-asked, no restocking fee, return option. A few days ago I checked the well-hidden policy again, out of curiosity. Now the policy is a 21 day return period, there 'may' be a 15% restocking fee, and the package has to be UNOPENED!"

The Lenovo returns policy page reads in part:

"For a new Product that is unopened and still in it's sealed package, you may return it to Lenovo for any reason within 21 days of the date of invoice and obtain a refund or credit ... Products returned may be subject to a restocking fee equal to 15% of the price paid. You agree to pay the restocking fee as Lenovo specifies."

Of course, return policies differ from warranties in that they allow you to return the product if it turns out you don't like it, rather than just if it's broken. Charging a restocking fee is not unusual, although Lenovo's claim that they specify whatever fee they want is a bit unsettling. But the thing that really bothered the reader is the idea that the package can't even be opened. After all, it's hard to decide you don't like something without actually opening the box and getting a look at it.

One doesn't generally buy a product for its return policy, though, so the reader suspects he'll still wind up buying a ThinkPad because of the features he likes. "I hate how every other laptop PC has the critical navigation keys scattered all over the right-hand side of the keyboard, instead of putting them in relatively the same place as on a full size keyboard, as IBM still does. I also love the track-point mouse control, unavailable elsewhere. So I guess I will still be forced to buy from Lenovo, although I won't be happy about it. I understand that companies need to prevent people from abusing return policies, but going from one of the best to one of the worst in the mail order PC industry in one fell-swoop is crazy. Maybe some publicity will make them change back to a more reasonable policy?"

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Lenovo Downgrades Return Policy | 44 comments (44 topical) | Post A Comment
Lenovo[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 13, 2006 at 12:07:06 PM PDT

I'd suggest buying the Lenovo ThinkPad from Costco.com. They carry a few models, and nobody has a better return policy than costco.

[ Reply to This ]


What about the credit card company?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 12:01:54 PM PDT

I've heart that many credit card companies have policies to return products that would not otherwise qualify. Amex sent me a letter describing benefits of using the card that included a line to the effect that they would refund the charge if the vendor would not.

I don't know what the particulars are (I would imagine it would have to be returned within the first year, etc.) but it might be worth checking into, if your credit card company offers a similar program.

I've never tried to return anything using this program, has anyone else had experience doing this? I'm naturally distrustful, so I would imagine that it might apply only in warranty situations, or have other limitations that make the program sound better than it really is.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



AMEX[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 02:30:18 AM PDT

Yeah, AMEX has a feature on many of their cards called return protection. I've used it several times. There are limitations like max refund of $300 per item, and $1000 per year. (Per account) You also have to initiate the claim within 90 days of purchase date. You fax in the receipt, and wait for them to mail you a shipping label. Then you send the item to them, and they credit your CC account a week or 2 later. Handy for getting around re-stock fees, and stores with poor return policies. (Though I avoid those stores whenever possible)

I think they recently added re-stock fee protection, so you still return the item to the store, then send them the return receipt showing the re-stock fee, and they refund that.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



111[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 04:15:30 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Dell laptops have trackpoint mouse controls[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 13, 2006 at 01:41:01 PM PDT

I personally hate trackpoints, but most Dell models have them as well as a touchpad. IBM puts the left function key where the control key belongs, which takes more getting used to than a Dell laptop keyboard.

[ Reply to This ]


Lenovo Return Policy[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Joe Seale on Mon Nov 13, 2006 at 03:09:17 PM PDT

Lenovo is one of the few companies that actually has a pulse on the consumer conversation, I'm sure this complaint hasn't gone unnoticed.

Now that we all have a blog and can easily make our voices heard world-wide, it seems a step in the customer (dis)satisfaction process has been eliminated: contacting the company directly.

Now, more than ever, is the time to be engaged with what the customer is saying... even if they aren't talking directly to you.

[ Reply to This ]



Eh what?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 08:09:36 AM PDT

"Lenovo is one of the few companies that actually has a pulse on the consumer conversation, I'm sure this complaint hasn't gone unnoticed."

"One of the few"? Every other gripe seems to draw in at least one business shill of some stripe or another.

I guess what you meant is that not only do they pay attention, but their response isn't to send an apologist to do spin control or astroturf for them or whatever but to actually try to address the complaint.

Unless, of course, they're changing to be just like the others now.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Lenovo Return Policy[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 13, 2006 at 07:26:47 PM PDT

Apple has a similar return policy in that they allow 14 days no charge return, unless the box is open, and then it's 10% restocking. What they said was that they had to charge that because once the box is open, they are not allowed to resell that computer as new. Neal Watzman

[ Reply to This ]


That is right, it no longer is new if it has been [ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by TonyK on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 09:31:27 AM PDT

opened. They can sell it as refirbushed (or reconditioned) but not new

There is value lost on their part because of that. Taking that in to consideration, why not lengthen the return time to 30 days.

14 or 21 days is not always enough time to get a system configured and to use it, especially when life happens to jump on the way.

Then again, a lot has changed over the last 10 to 15 years in regards to buy computers and being able to return things. A lot of that has to do with people buying equipment with NO intention of keeping it. Retailers/Resellers had to do something so we only have ourselves, and our fellow computer users, to blame.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



returning laptops[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 12:03:34 PM PDT

This is why I buy laptops and similar complex items at a retail outlet, rather than mail order.

For example, a few months ago we purchased a Toshiba laptop from Office Depot. We got it home, opened and assembled everything, got online and registered all the services which came with it - and a day or two later discovered a more affordable alternative (a relative's laptop available for the cost of repairs).

Office Depot took the laptop back and gave us a full refund without giving us the third degree.

I'm sure Circuit City would have given us the same deal, which is why they are also on my "buy at retail" list (they once accepted a digital camera which was returned without the receipt over a month after the purchase).

[ Reply to This ]



Man, I hate that attitude...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 12:18:13 PM PDT

The vendor (Office Depot) sold you a perfectly functioning laptop at an agreed-upon price. You opened it and used it, then decided you could get a better deal elsewhere. You took the no-longer-new laptop to Office Depot, who refunded your money. In effect, they took a major loss on that laptop. It can't be resold as new; it probably lost at least 10% of it's value thanks to you. Not to mention the paper-work involved, shipping it back to the vendor to be refurbed, etc. People who buy things with the attitude of "if I don't like it, or maybe find a better deal, I can take it back and make the store eat the cost of my laziness" are the reasons stores are having to clamp down on their return policies. Would you buy clothes, wear them a few times, and return them to the store, expecting a full refund? ? Oh wait ... *you* probably would. Dave

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


What's wrong with legitimately taking advantage...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 07:17:09 AM PDT

...of the retailer's return policy? Office Depot's business model surely takes into account circumstances like this and sets it's profit margins accordingly. It could change its policy if it found this had a deleterious effect on its profit goals and the lost business as a result would not have a similarly significant impact.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Office Depot Loses Nothing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:02:22 AM PDT

What the poster doesn't understand is that retail companies like Office Depot, Costco, Wal-Mart have return agreements with the manufacturer. Office Depot will get the full wholesale price and will only lose its potential retail profit--but gain buying loyalty for smart customers.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Bad faith[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 01:12:23 AM PDT

No matter how you slice it, rationalize it, or justify it with gymnastics over who bears the cost and how much and how business models work. And building customer support? I bet this buyer would dump the good guy retailer if he found a price $10 cheaper somewhere else.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Why should they change their policy?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 12:40:25 PM PDT

So I guess I will still be forced to buy from Lenovo, although I won't be happy about it. ... Maybe some publicity will make them change back to a more reasonable policy?"

Why should Lenovo even think about changing their policy [for the better] if people still will buy under the more restrictive terms? If bad publicity has does not affect the bottom line, then it's only bad publicity and not a business issue. If the cost of liberalizing the policy hase the effect of costing the company more in returns, then that is a business issue. From a business standpoint, that's not a hard decision to make.

[ Reply to This ]



Reputation[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 01:08:44 PM PDT

Well, there WAS a time when some businesses would take the high road.

The business justfication was that their reputation was golden, and not to be sacrificed for a short-term transactional gain. Which is all we are talking about here :)

We need to encourage good behaviour on the part of businesses. I for one am not ready to just throw up my hands and say "it's all gone to h*ll, every man, woman, or business for themselves!"

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Get a MacBook[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 01:51:12 PM PDT

Dude, toss the crap out. By a MacBook. You will NEVER regret it. Run, don't walk, to an Apple store and see for yourself. So many things are so much better in Apple's new MacBooks that Windows PCs are now only for nostalgic purposes by tech support people.

[ Reply to This ]


Careful now...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by MontyPalmer on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 03:54:13 PM PDT

You are going to be accused of being a shill!
Monty Palmer
[ Parent | Reply to This ]


MacBook[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 04:09:40 PM PDT

Bwahahahahaha! Stop drinking the koolaid.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Great Article, i agreee with you[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 10:15:16 PM PDT

dis j'ai jamais vu de poisson sans ouies........et avec une forme pareille.......Internet Marketing 迷你倉 護膚 .

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Have they fixed the power cord?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 14, 2006 at 11:55:07 PM PDT

Hopefully the MacBook doesn't use the same AC adapter as the PowerBook.  That POS is so badly designed that the slightest tug on the laptop plug end renders it useless.  Apple calls it a safety feature; I call it expensive: my wife has had her PB for two years now, and we're already on the 5th AC adapter, at >$60 apiece!

Sorry for the off-topic rant, but not everything that comes out of Cupertino is sweetness and light.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Hate to tell you this but...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 06:56:36 AM PDT

Not all PC's run only Windows.. I for one still exclusivly run OS/2. Why? All my business/personal apps not only run fine but W/O all the OS baggage Win has they FLY. And back OT, I've had 5 laptops since `94, of them my ThinkPad T23 is by far the best I've ever had - and yes it's old - why? No need to get a new one as often when the OS doesn't make it crawl and laptop itself is near bulletproof. It's been dropped and banged more times than I care to count and has never once complained about it unlike other brands that developed floppy blinking screens, cracked cases, dim backlights, etc. Cheers!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


You're my hero...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 03:10:52 PM PDT

Dude, I LOVE Windows for Workgroups 3.11. It lets me run all the apps I've ever needed, in crisp & beautiful 640x480 16-color VGA mode. I can surf the 'net (AOL 4.0-16 bit forever!), run Word, Excel, etc. and I never have to worry about those pesky new viruses & worms. Best of all, it's fast!

Granted, I can't run any apps made in the past decade, but why would I want to??? Cheers!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Why?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 03:09:36 PM PDT

Two words: "quake", "four".

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Apple's Return Policy[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by talmy on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:55:44 AM PDT

And how does switching from Lenovo to Apple solve the OP's complaint? Apple's return policy is just as bad, if not worse. 20% restocking fee if you open the box, and customized systems (such as if you have them add extra RAM, apparently) cannot be returned. Ironically, Apple doesn't charge a restocking fee for opened non-Apple products they sell!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


I wonder...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 11:38:01 AM PDT

...why there are so many Apple astroturfers crawling this forum. And it used to be Microsoft that was bad for that!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Apple's success[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by foxyshadis1 on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 11:43:44 PM PDT

Most who has a great experience with a company think everyone else will too. Lots of new converts to Macs this year means a lot of new folks entering Jobs' well-known RD field, as well as quite a few former Mac-heads returning to the fold now that Macs are competitive with high-end PCs again and the marketing is in full-swing. Last few years, they were just "The iPod company" with a few side-jobs. =p

Wait until the Vista activation gripes start rolling in, then the "Shoulda got a Mac!" crowd will really heat up. :P

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



I noticed the change in policy...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 02:02:18 PM PDT

I am the person that wrote to Ed about this issue.

I would like to clarify a few things related to some of the comments people made.

1. To me, there is an ETHICAL consideration when returning a product. I research the products I buy very thoroughly. I will not return them unless they have something wrong with them, or they don't function as advertised. The reason I wanted the return privilege is in case of bright/dead pixels, and no other reason! I am VERY particular about the display on my PC. If I get some bright/dead pixels on the screen I'll be very disappointed; and most company's policies on bright/dead pixels are horrendous for those of us who are VERY detail oriented and constantly see the pixels.

2. I will never buy another Apple product after a return fiasco with an iPod which wouldn't work with my $300 high-end headphones. The only option was to return it and and eat the restocking fee, even though the iPod produced horribly distorted sound: It was clearly not working as advertised. I should not have had to pay the restocking fee. Apple's arrogance has caused me to warn several friends about them; and at least 2 people have subsequently bought PCs instead of Macs. I told Apple they would lose more money in the long run by alienating an influential IT professional. They didn't believe me, so they lost several PC purchases. :-)

3. As I stated in my note to Ed: The position of keys on a keyboard is very important to me. I purchased the ThinkPad because of the keyboard layout. And my PERSONAL PREFERENCE is for the track-point: I don't have to pick up my finger to move the cursor a large distance. (Although Dell laptops may have the track-point, I will not purchase from them because of my past experience with their quality.)

4. Another reason I will continue to purchase ThinkPad PCs: IBM's online support resources are unrivaled in my experience. They still update drivers and the BIOS for my current 3.5 year old ThinkPad R40. How many other companies do that? In my experience helping friends with other hardware vendors, getting updated drivers is an exercise in futility, and exceedingly frustrating.

5. As for not buying from Lenovo in order to "protest their policy:" Realistically, large companies don't notice such protests, even from many people. It has to be a very large number of people that protest before they take notice. Should I live with a PC I don't like for 3+ years in order to make a point to a large company that couldn't care less? (In a perfect world, yes, but, in reality, no.)

Thank you to the people that pointed out the possibility of some sort of protection from my credit card company. I will check with them!

[ Reply to This ]



Dell Trackpoints[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 05:52:08 PM PDT

Anyone who likes trackpoints should beware of Dell and at least do some research on the model they are considering. I have owned 2 different models that over time developed "mouse drift" where the mouse pointer would intermittently move about on the screen on it's own. It was actually funny the 1st time for about 10 seconds. After that it was infuriating because the thing would move straight to a corner and refuse to move. After some research it turned out that that the trackpoints were the problem and disabling them solved it. I've read theories that it has to do with long term heat dissipating through the keyboard and damaging the foil (or whatever it is) that the trackpoint sits on. It wasn't from overuse because I never use them (maybe it's from underuse). If I depended on the trackpoint I would have been out of luck. Both Dells were Dimensions and a couple of years old, I haven't seen the problem on a newer latitude, but it is worth looking into before buying.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Toshiba, too[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by tcsbiz on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 07:29:25 PM PDT

I have an old Toshiba laptop that has the drift problem. It's intermittent and doesn't cause too many problems. I have noticed it starts after it's been on for more than three hours. Maybe it is the heat affecting it.

Tom.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



TrackPoint Drift[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Fushigi on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 07:31:14 AM PDT

IIRC a long time ago Dell/Alps (the trackpoint manufacturer) released a driver update that compensated for the drift. Dunno if it applies to current machines. I've not cared much for both trackpoints and glidepads so I use a Logitech VX Revolution (fantastic mouse).

As to buying a Dell, I would avoid the Inspiron lineup and only get a Latitude. Inspirons don't seem to get the same degree of engineering that Latitudes do. Latitudes cost more and frequently don't have the highest-end CPUs and whatnot, but they've proven more reliable to my company. We buy thousands of laptops every year and Dell is our global preferred supplier.

BTW, I found that this laptop cooler is cheap, silent, USB-powered, and works well. I run the Folding @ Home distributed computing client on the laptop sometimes and the PC is noticeably cooler since I bought the above.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Aye, that's the rub.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by foxyshadis1 on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 11:48:00 PM PDT

Since we can't spin up something tailor made to our specs (awesome price, rugged parts, lightweight, 6 hours battery, great style, dream layout, return forever for anything, lots of flashing LEDs if you're into that), the best we can do is research, choose the best of the many options, and gripe about the rest hoping that someone will hear and institute change. ;)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


ThinkPads - Warranties and Keyboard Mouse Sticks[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 06:03:37 AM PDT

I have been a long-time ThinkPad user, but no longer. Their warranty has turned into a scam on several levels. They have lost this high-end software developer as a customer. Need a keyboard stick for mouse control?, then look at upper-end Dell units. I am not in love with Dell as they too have issues that irritate me, but I simply had to punish IBM for their warranty scam on my old A21. I currently use a Dell Inspiron 9100 with the stick for mouse control. I think Toshiba may also still offer sticks for mouse control. Typically you only find that feature on higher-end machines as time has shown that high-end very-productive users are the only ones that "get" the mouse stick concept. You can debate the stick-vs-mouse issue all day long, but it simply comes back to productivity and cursor control, there is no real objective debate about what to use. :)

[ Reply to This ]


Lenovo Customer Service[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 22, 2007 at 10:57:31 AM PDT

I recently ordered a brand new T60P from Lenovo which was my dream computer I had waited for for years. I initially ordered and patiently waited, and waited, and waited. So I called to find out my shipment had been seized by customs. I ordered on May the 11 only to get it on the 28. Well I was happy and finally got it only to discover my sound card had issues. After several calls and driver reinstalls (with IBM) they sent me recovery discs to reinstall, they were the wrong discs and they ruined the image of the hard drive preventing a factory reformat. So I called back and they want me to send my brand new computer in to reinstall a refurbished mother board. I said Im not sending in my brand new computer to get tore apart. IBM told me I have to call Lenovo for an approval for an exchange so I did. Lenovo informed me I am past my 21 days(I was on my 23 when I called) for a return so they would request it but it probably wasnt going to happen. I informed them that customer service had pushed back my return time and caused all the issues but they said all they could do was document it. Any way the moral is stick with the companies you trust. Lenovo has lost a new customer.

[ Reply to This ]


Lenovo Returns[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 02:25:40 PM PDT

It gets worse. Now, ALL notebooks, opened or unopened, are subject to the 15% restocking fee.

[ Reply to This ]


lingering[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
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kimo[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:14:06 AM PDT

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