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What Do the Feds Really Want From Google?

By Ed Foster, Section Columns
Posted on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 12:34:53 AM PDT

I can't help but wonder what the government is really after in its attempt to force Google to turn over user search information from its databases -- somehow I suspect it has very little to do with pornography and a whole lot to do with control of the Internet. So while it certainly raises grave privacy concerns, it might pose an even bigger threat to free speech and other First Amendment rights.


A San Jose Mercury News report Wednesday revealed that for months Google has been battling a Justice Department subpoena for massive amounts of material that the government hopes will help it defend COPA, the Child Online Protection Act. Privacy advocates have rightfully been horrified by the "idea these massive databases are being thrown open to anyone with a court document." And many more are disquieted after learning that at least to some degree Yahoo, Microsoft, and AOL rolled over and complied with similar government requests for information from their search engines.

The Justice Department points out that its demands (which initially asked for all queries for a two-month period and a complete list of URLs that could be located via Google) do not include any personal information about the user. It only wishes to protect children from obscene websites, and it believes Google's data will help it show that software filters are not enough to protect the kids from porn. Who could argue with that?

Well, the U.S. Supreme Court for one, which in 2004 barred enforcement of COPA because, while the law was having no noticeable impact on child pornography, it was clearly demonstrating "potential for extraordinary harm and a serious chill upon protected speech." It sent the case back to the lower court in Philadelphia, and it's there that the Justice Department hopes to use the information from Google and other search engines to argue against the ACLU for COPA's reinstatement.

Now, let's think about this a minute. When COPA was enacted, it was widely predicted that it, like most legal attempts to define what is and is not pornographic, would inevitably be overturned on First Amendment grounds. And it was. Even if Google had cooperated as the other search engines did, in the end the courts would still recognize that COPA is blatantly unconstitutional. So why did the administration decide not only to pursue a case it's not going to win, but demand more information (two months of Google searches) than it could possibly digest?

Well, we each might have our own theories about that, but I believe that protecting children from pornography is just the stalking horse here. Any government that wants to exercise some control over what its citizens can read on the Internet has got to start by exercising some control over Google. If Google had acceded to the Justice Department's original demands, imagine what additional requests for information might have resulted once the government got to look over the data. "Oh, yes, it's true we were primarily interested in pornography, but we've noticed patterns that suggest possible terrorist communications ..."

What we can all understand, though, is that there is much at stake in this case. In fighting over the constitutionality of COPA, the feds shouldn't have any more rights to demand information from a non-involved third party like Google than the ACLU does. And when it demanded that information, Google shouldn't have been the only search engine that told them no and stuck by it. If the government can get any information it wants any time for any ill-defined purpose, far more than the privacy of our search engine queries will be lost.

--------------------

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Display: Sort:
What Do the Feds Really Want From Google? | 43 comments (43 topical) | Post A Comment
America was...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 05:50:42 AM PDT

... a good experiment in freedom and human rights for a while, but the power-hungry have once again taken something good and are trying to destroy it, hiding behind "it's for the children" and the "war on terror" as excuses to force itself on everyone. Nice try America, but we're losing you fast, and Washington is set up that outsiders can't get in and fix the damage....

[ Reply to This ]


Protecting Children[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 09:15:22 AM PDT

The whole protecting children from pornography angle seems like a very obvious lie to me because even if 50% of the searches are searches for porn - how can they possibly know who is actually doing the searching. Sure it might be a 13-year-old, but it might be an 83-year-old, too. How would they ascertain whether anti-porn filters work by looking at Google records. Wouldn't they need to be on the other end, looking at what got through the filters to the user? How would they even know if the user has a filter from looking at Google records?

[ Reply to This ]


Too Bad![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 09:42:20 AM PDT

Wouldn't it be just "terrible" if some of the perverts were actually found and prosecuted. Who knows, we might even find a few of the missing children. OH MY God!! What a concept!

[ Reply to This ]


did you read the article?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 10:05:24 AM PDT

How can they "find a few perverts" if they don't even request the searcher info? All they asked for was URL's of requested search hits. And how on earth does the guvmint think they can go through two months of Google searches? What would this be, something like 100 gazillion lines of data? This is a power grab, not a legit request for info. I am dismayed Yahoo would acquiesce (sp?) without at least informing its public users what it had done. And good for Google!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


pattern matching possible[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by dmittleman on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 10:43:26 AM PDT

Gvt most likely has some pretty powerful pattern matching software, so they could get through the gazillion lines and organize the data.  But it is not at all clear to me that that would tell them.

So they would find that there are lots of searches done for porn or pseudo porn (Pamala Anderson searches et al.).  They won't know who did them, so they won't know whether the searchers are adult or child.  They will conclude:
1. There are lots of search for porn;
2. We don't know who does them; some are plausibly done by kids.

Duh.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Hi[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#53)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 05:08:51 AM PDT



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


You're way off target here[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by LasVegan on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 09:57:17 AM PDT

1) People searching for porn aren't perverts. The word more appropriately applies to those who oppose porn. 2) The data they are requesting is anonymous--it can't be used to locate anybody. The only thing it could possibly be used for is the war on porn. In other words, to *INCREASE* sex crimes. It's not going to find missing children, it's going to cause them.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


ACLU[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 09:45:58 AM PDT

I don't know enough about this case to comment on it. However, I will say that if the ACLU is on one side of the argument, there is a pretty good chance that the other side is where I want to be. The ACLU has championed so many dubious causes and taken so many outrageous positions that I trust them even less than I do the Justice Department.

[ Reply to This ]


ACLU[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by bc9424 on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 10:02:57 AM PDT

Nice to know. Why not just let this Administration finish shredding the Constitution and the Bill of Rights??? Ed, thanks for the post. I'm glad at least Google had the spine to stand up--I hope they keep it up.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Re: ACLU[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 10:12:16 AM PDT

Obviously, you don't know anything about the case either.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Distrusting the ACLU[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 10:42:04 AM PDT

It is difficult to fathom that so many people fail to grasp the fundamental idea of protecting our Constitutional rights when those rights are exercised by those with whom we disagree. "The ACLU has championed so many dubious causes and taken so many outrageous positions..." "Dubious" and "outrageous" apparently translate to "I disagree." "...that I trust them even less than I do the Justice Department." I trust them to try to protect my free speech rights. I even trust them to defend your free speech rights, even though I disagree with you. That's what they do. That's all they do. Why is that so hard to grasp?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Re: Distrusting the ACLU[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 10:45:59 AM PDT

In my naive youth, I was a supporter of the ACLU because I believed they were the watchdog of the Bill of Rights. I joined the organization, went to local chapter meetings, served on committees, eventually became a board member and finally an officer. Over time, I saw their true colors. At one annual fundraising banquet, the director of the state chapter was the scheduled guest speaker. A conservative co-worker challenged me to ask the director his opinion of the 2nd Amendment. So I did, and to my astonishment he told me THAT amendment had been useful during pioneer times, but was no longer relevant or needed. I realized the ACLU does NOT defend the Constitution; it picks and chooses the Amendments it likes and disdains the ones it doesn't. That was 30 years ago. Their more recent rush to defend terrorists and pedophiles only confirm that they have moved even more to the left than I thought possible.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Who are you?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by dmittleman on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 10:45:52 AM PDT

The ACLU would work pretty hard to protect your right to maintain anonymity for the comment you just made.

Nice to see you chose anonymity, but you will side with the people who will work to identify you.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



You give them too much credit.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by foxyshadis1 on Mon Jan 23, 2006 at 08:06:35 PM PDT

Actually, the biggest defenders of the internet culture in courts have always been ISPs, with EFF, ACLU, and universities occasionally giving support and occasionally snubbing them. ISPs and/or websites themselves tend to bear many of the costs of defence of free, anonymous speech online.

They also rarely champion rights they aren't interested in, such as the consumer protection issues this blog focuses on. If the ACLU actually cared as much about defending against big business as big brother, we might not have so many anti-consumer laws bought and flagrant violations of others.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Why is the Dept. of Justice still fighting?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 10:51:07 AM PDT

DoJ is buying time by continuing the fight. They are under instruction from the regime to carry on, knowing that the U.S. Supreme Court will soon be stacked with ultra-conservative justices, and the odds of the regime winning will be vastly improved. There is almost no chance that Samuel Alito won't be confirmed by the Senate, and once he is, DoJ expects to win. It may even win back in the lower courts, since the justices there will surely see what's likely to happen in the Supreme Court.

[ Reply to This ]


I'm More Worried about Google[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 11:06:02 AM PDT

I'm more worried about just why Google would be keeping this information on me in the first place. Isn't anyone concerned as to why one of the largest corporations in the USA is storing this type of data? And if they can't get it from Google, they can always get it from Cydoor (sp?) or one of the other Adware trackers. The very idea that they can maintain this data, without my authorization, in petabyte sized databases worries me far more that the government wanting to have a look at it.

[ Reply to This ]


It makes sense to me[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Matthew Cervi on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 11:11:38 AM PDT

Seems like maintaining a history of searches and what was selected would provide better answers to queries. Now if they're maintaining a history of where queries came from, that is another issue...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Hmmmmm[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 11:29:06 AM PDT

Based on the abuses of the Patriot Act by the govmnt to look into everything from abortion records to photographers pictures of Cheney, I really wonder WHAT the purpose of the request is.

[ Reply to This ]


why wait for a court order?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 11:42:49 AM PDT

What am I missing here? If they're just looking for the sites and not the viewers, why don't they just google for the sites themselves? Why bother with court granted access to a list everyone has access to?

[ Reply to This ]


How can one show support?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 12:13:56 PM PDT

How can someone make a concrete show of support for Google in this matter?

[ Reply to This ]


Relax guys...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 02:01:24 PM PDT

Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. Napoleon Bonaparte Corollary to above: Never ascribe to conspiracy that which is adequately explained by random acts of stupidity.

[ Reply to This ]


The request is pointless, really[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 05:42:07 PM PDT

It's clear that the purpose of this request is to gather some esoteric non-information, but more importantly to eat away at the right to free speech - and it's a foot in the door. Since using search engine data about urls without source IP's is pretty pointless. The real point is to gain a foothold on the data that search engines necessarily need to connect a searcher to their results. The government can't ask for that straight away. But if they get the first part, there's a good chance they can get the other end - the requesting IP's. Frankly, that's really frightening. But where there's government interference, there will rise new products to anonymize browsing. A new market! The Bush government has steadily eroded our rights, has started a stupid and really pointless war (which, by the way we can't walk away from - but guess what? That's exactly he's now proposing), approved warrantless phone taps when a court specifically for granting said warrants exists, and more. I am all behind Google!

[ Reply to This ]


book burners[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by wawadave on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 10:53:35 PM PDT

first came the brown shirts. than came the book burning.....
than the goose stepping.....
than the zig hiels......

this is the route your on how long till it completes full circal with an american twist!!!!

first came draconian laws....
than came losses of privcy...
loss of freedom of speach....
than came computer smashing(visions of orin hatch..)
than the slaves were forced to ...........

RFID Tags Spyware!
[ Reply to This ]


Google[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by tcsbiz on Sat Jan 21, 2006 at 09:36:21 AM PDT

My first reactions, Ed.

1. The government can ask for anything they want to. The reason is immaterial. This will get decided in the courts as it should be.

2. I'm glad Google is fighting it. I'm dismayed that Yahoo and AOL have decided to not fight it.

3. For those who equate Bush with brown-shirted Nazi's: He's out of office in a couple years. WWII had to be fought to get rid of Hitler.

4. A lot of freedoms have been lost to "protect the children."  Local smokers recently lost the freedom to smoke in bars and restaurants to protect children. Government should not protect children, parents should.

Tom.

[ Reply to This ]



Smoking ban[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Fushigi on Mon Jan 23, 2006 at 05:09:15 AM PDT

Smoking in bars, restaraunts, and other publib/semi-public areas is being banned because of the health effects of smoking and the associated costs to society (higher health care costs, lost worker productivity, shorter lifespans, etc.), not to protect children. I'm curious, which bars are freely admitting children?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Kids and bars[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by tcsbiz on Mon Jan 23, 2006 at 06:29:27 AM PDT

I'm in WI. The law allows kids in bars providing they're with adults. This happens frequently, especially in sports bars like Buffalo Wild Wings. Locally, one of the main issues the ban proponents used was to "protect the children". Freedoms are being lost at the local level. Tom.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Smoking and rights[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 23, 2006 at 12:38:23 PM PDT

This has little to do with the topic at hand, but in this instance, I think Indiana has got it figured out.  Smoking is perfectly allowable in bars and resturants, but under most circumstances, only in the designated smoking sections, which are required to be sealed off from the rest of the establishment.  As a result, most resturants up here have a general seating section, and a glassed-in bar.  Everybody knows that the bar is for smoking, so if you don't want to come into contact with smoke, you eat in the other half.  Simple, effective, brilliant.

Smokers have their rights to do whatever they want to their own lungs, but when it starts to effect mine, something needs to be changed.
As the saying goes, "your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins".

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Smoke[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by tcsbiz on Mon Jan 23, 2006 at 06:05:25 PM PDT

Then stay away from the smoke and fists.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


That's a good way towards handling it[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by LasVegan on Mon Jan 23, 2006 at 08:28:32 PM PDT

The problem is still that the waitresses have to go into the smoke area to deal with the customers.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


That's a good way towards handling it[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by Matthew Cervi on Tue Jan 24, 2006 at 03:58:47 AM PDT

...and the "sealed" rooms are never sealed. Just putting glass around a smoking section doesn't keep the stench out of the rest of the restaurant.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Yes they are[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 24, 2006 at 11:12:31 AM PDT

They are sealed here.  I live in northern Indiana, and I can attest that most of the smoking sections are definitely sealed off from the rest of the dining area- floor-to-ceiling walls (usually with large windows), and exterior-grade doors.  Of course, there is always a slight leakage when the doors are open, but it's trivial by comparison to not having anything.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Question everything... (I've learned!)[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 04:02:47 PM PDT

My first time post - long time reader. Everyone here has an incredible understanding and great comments. I especially like "Tom's". Living near D.C. I have several friends in many governmental organizations. For instance I know that Virginia's Loudoun County police force has at least one full time officer that does virtually nothing but serve subpoenas on AOL for user information. In general, it seems monies are just not getting to the folk who can really make a difference in this and other many issues - typical politics. A request for such VAST information, that would strain just about any agency, would only point to an ulterior motive. What every American must consider is the honesty of our government (and its agencies) to protect what we have come to believe is our inalienable rights. While I was very young during Jimmy Carter era, I was lucky enough to comprehend a modest slip in our rights albeit bad nor good. When the Iranian Embassy was taken, Jimbo came on TV and told America the news, related information on the failed rescue attempt, and discussed his plans to resolve the issue. At the time, one of his comments caught my attention as he said that he `requested a news blackout on from the media and they cooperated.' The insinuation of the broadcast seemed very pointed that this all just happened. [like, the past 12 hours] However, my Peace Corps employed sister, way out in the middle of no where of Cameroon, Africa called us early (2 a.m.) that next morning and we discussed the crisis. Turns out, best we could tell, she was told about it more than 2 days before Jimbo showed up on TV. Thinking about a time line of the actual event, determining what was going on, mounting a rescue mission, executing it, having it fail, and already having the results of the failure; well, you realize the news blackout was at least 48 hours. No real reason ever materialized for this restraint and this being in a time WELL BEFORE our current security issues, terrorist problems and other reservations; including freedom(s) of speech... Even at 14 years old, I was overwhelmed by this incredible power the nicey-nice Jimbo Government could exercise over the American public, not to mention the press. Now in today's world, you just have to wonder what controls are currently being exercised. What do we NOT know? What does it do to American's rights? And even if they got it, what the heck would they do with all that Google information?!

[ Reply to This ]


Do you really think the media would cooperate?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 23, 2006 at 06:51:53 AM PDT

One doesn't have to spend much time observing current media reports/opinion pieces to realize that they harbor no love nor respect for the current administration. Their visceral hatred of the current administration drives their opinions and actions so far to the other side that one could put them on the same side as the terrorists and insurgents. Given their current bent, do you actually believe that they would withhold any story at administration request, even (or especially) if service members' lives could potentially be lost? The wiretap case does not qualify as an example, -- NYT held that story for their own reasons (pending release of the author's book).

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Poor example[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by Garminski on Tue Jan 24, 2006 at 11:18:43 AM PDT

I disagree with this example. Trying to equate a request to the media during a military operation is not subjegating free speach. At the time it was a reasonable request to try and give the military the advantage of surprise which is very important in warefare. Now asking for a voluntary media blackout and then coming clean is very different from the current administration where they have apparently broken the law for years even though they had a leagal "out" with their secret court.

The only reason the government has to ask for this information from Google and others is it is on a fishing expedition and hopes to find something or support some theroy someone has in order to restrict the internet.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


There is a much better method available[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by dickcaro on Mon Jan 23, 2006 at 04:14:54 PM PDT

...to keep PORN out of the hands of children as they surf the Internet. It is called PICS (Platform for Internet Content Selection,) defined by W3C and well documented on this website: http://www.w3.org/PICS/ The purpose of PICS is to allow every website designer to classify the type of content provided using a short keywork HTML header. Porn websites would then be identified as PORN, and be easier to find for those looking for it. At the same time, it would be easy to filter out for any web monitor enabled for children. Any website without a PICS header would be classified as "unviewable" by the child protection filter such as NetNanny. Governments can then choose to procecute any website with a missleading PICS header leading to making it viewable to a child AND containing PORN content. I tried to make a PICS filter part of the DOCSIS cable modem specification MIB so that it could not be disabled by a resident script kiddy, but Cable Labs thought it was out of scope. This is the right way, has been known for years, and is a real web standard. So where is it?

[ Reply to This ]


Not as clear-cut as you think[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by LasVegan on Mon Jan 23, 2006 at 08:36:47 PM PDT

The problem is it comes down to definitions. If we are going to label stuff porn then you need to be able to define porn. Where exactly do you draw the line? And what do you do about the stuff that straddles the line? Where do you put the sex-ed site? Whichever way you go there's someone that's going to feel you went the wrong way. And what if you go even farther--how about a site talking about sex and disabilities--I can imagine such a site showing animated clips showing how to work around various physical limits. (Yes, sometimes animated stuff is the best way to communicate. A paper jam in my new laser printer drove me up the wall trying to follow the pictures on the back telling how to open the fuser. I only got in when I found the animated clip in the help that it had installed when I installed the driver. I'm no technological ignoramus, either--I've been programming for 25 years and I haven't run anything but a home-built computer since the 486 came out.)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


To be fair...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 24, 2006 at 03:30:52 PM PDT

When the government tried convincing the Supreme Court that filters don't work, the Supreme Court chose to ignore the government's presumably "expert" witnesses. Instead, they ruled that expert testimony wasn't enough to validate their argument. The Supreme Court said that solid "evidentiary" testimony - meaning testimony created from hard evidence - was necessary to prove filters don't work. THAT is the reason why the Supreme Court sent it back to the lower court. And THAT is what led to the government's decision to ask for the list of searches from search engines.

They made the request only after the high court told them it was the only way to prove their point. And, their request was very specific - carefully formulated to not reveal ANY identifying information about anybody. As far as privacy goes, the request is totally benign. The only true argument that Google can stand on is the worry of releasing trade secrets based on their collection of URLs.

However, please do continue with the conspiracy theories of how your soul (and privacy) is being sucked under the omnipresent microscope. With the compounding hysteria, the theories keep getting better.

[ Reply to This ]


How does that prove that filters don't work?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 25, 2006 at 08:44:11 AM PDT

How do the Google (or Yahoo, Microsoft, etc.) records possibly show that filters don't work. How can they know that the PC's in question even had filters installed?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


This is the same Google...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 25, 2006 at 08:58:18 AM PDT

that is censoring it's own results in China, to gain a better market share. I REALLY don't need to hear any preaching from them.

[ Reply to This ]


Businesses need to follow the law ...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#42)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 05:57:12 AM PDT

... in whatever country they do business in. If the Chinese people are being oppressed it is up to them to have a revolution. Google would be failing in it's duty to shareholders (maximize profit) if it didn't operate in China.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Backdoor or Not?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 30, 2006 at 10:06:56 AM PDT

Could the WMF vunerability been used as a 'backdoor'? - YES. Was it a backdoor? - UNKNOWN. Was it deliberate? - YES, the Windows code did what it was supposed to do. Did Microsoft intend for it to be used this way? UNKNOWN, but probably not. The vunerability itself was not a virus, trogan, or other bad program, it was a hole so that a web site could execute *anything* on the user's computer. What part of *Anything* don't you understand?

[ Reply to This ]


Oh, I understand.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#44)
by foxyshadis1 on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 02:22:27 AM PDT

Dude, any "Remote Execution" vulnerability means "Anything" can be executed. All vulnerabilities are just holes for other things to exploit, whether it's web sites or worms. There has been an IE-level localsystem vulnerability in the past, and a lot of user exploits. Plus, everything I mentioned before was a localsystem exploit, that propogated by worms and infected a much larger percentage of windows machines than the WMF flaw.

See, that's the thing about microsoft flaws, if you paid attention you'd notice that most of them are "Remote Execution". Whether it's user or system context, the results are usually just as devestating with so many running as root, and there are enough tricks to get system-level access even if they aren't.

By your logic, all of the hundreds of RX flaws in windows the last 8 years would have been backdoors. The flaw wasn't "deliberate" any more than the others have been; some are design mistakes, but this was just yet another of the many coding mistakes, forgetting a small safety step in old, neglected code.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



old news[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
by RickJamez on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 08:30:28 PM PDT

But by now, the news is, Google actually handed over very LITTLE information to the government, which dosen't really help the government with anything, maybe it was to make a point to the 'terrorists??' who knows.
cell phone wallpapers free
[ Reply to This ]


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