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Needing Support for Oracle Support

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Sep 19, 2005 at 10:32:12 AM PDT

It can be hard enough just getting the support you need from a vendor. One reader recently found himself needing help from Oracle support to help him deal with Oracle support.


"I have been working on what should be a very simple Oracle 10g problem now for two months," a reader wrote recently. "In the past, Oracle simply allowed you to turn on archiving or keep it off by default. That's still true with 10g, but once you turn it on, watch out. Oracle now includes statistical gathering and includes this data in their archiving. So if you simply install Oracle 10g and turn on archiving and walk away, with no users are using the database, every two or so hours you will generate a ten MB archive log with statistical information. With Oracle's help, I was able to turn off all scheduled jobs off that come as default with 10g. But I still get 10 MB statistical archives being generated, and Oracle has no idea what's going on."

After he was several weeks into trying to solve the problem, he found himself having to use Oracle support tools that were themselves hard to master. "Oracle wanted me to dump out the data from these archive logs, so they had me use their 'Logminer' function to do so," the reader wrote. "After reading up on Logminer, I spent hours trying to get it to work. I failed. So I had to get help from Oracle to show me how to set up the archive dumps. They were kind enough to walk me through the process. So now each time one support rep asks me for an archive log dump, I have another support rep assisting me in developing the scripts to dump the archives out."

The reader's travails weren't made easier by some of the other support tools that were supposed to help him. "Oracle's Metalink has also not been as useful as I would have hoped," he wrote. "When first asked to use Logminer, I was given a 'note number' to read for directions. It was very difficult just to find the note in Metalink, and the instructions were not at all clear. At the same time, I will say that when they were assisting me, I did find their 'Collaborative Support' very helpful."

At last report, the reader said that Oracle was still analyzing the problem. "I have been on this issue to how to turn off statistical gathering in the archives now for over two months, with some short breaks for them and me," the reader wrote. "I find it hard to believe that Oracle would include statistical gathering information in an archive. They should have separated this function into another file/area and keep archiving for backup purposes only."

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Needing Support for Oracle Support | 38 comments (38 topical) | Post A Comment
How to Make OSS Successful[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 01:55:29 PM PDT

I have attempted to use Open Office. It is a nice system of programs but does not have the richness required to do much more than simple letter writing, primitive tables, and simple spreadsheets. Open Office is so deficient for serious power users that one might easily conclude that the file structure associated with it is not capable of expanding into a full-featured office suite without major redefinition. What is really needed to kick off Linux into major use is for a few major application developers to port their stuff to Linux. There is absolutely no way for these major developers to consider their applications to be considered "open source" but without them, Linux will always be relegated to "hobby" status. Linux itself is deserving of wide acceptance as a serious OS but the currently available applications are not. I know for a fact that some developers have years ago ported "proof of concept" versions to Linux but they have not been forthcoming with commercial product announcements nor have they been willing to make any sort of comment on whether or not they ever will. IBM has dedicated about $100 million into the Linux effort but the exact thrust of that expenditure may not be well understood outside of IBM.

I have been involved in major custom software projects since 1984 wherein significant industrial applications were developed on platforms using various versions of UNIX running on PC class machines and installed in many high-tech facilities around the world. In one project 14 years ago, a single Intel 386 running Unix ran 11 real-time manufacturing devices requiring about 1,500 initiating transactions per hour, supported 18 touch screen intelligent terminals, supported 6 dumb terminals, internationally connected dial-up telephone support, printers, and connected to a major manufacturing control system; such has always been the power of UNIX or Linux. Most of the software from those projects is easily ported to Linux. UNIX and its variants were chosen because Linux was not professionally supportable in all parts of the world. It would not have required much push into Linux if professional grade application software were available.

In addition to IBM's commitment, I know of one other group that is considering partnering with the major application developers in an effort to avoid the vulnerabilities associated with MS products and especially their OSs.

In the industrial systems I mentioned above that used UNIX, the PC class computers (everything from Intel 286 on up) ran for months without re-booting. In those same facilities, some test and process equipment software ran in MS Windows environments and it was a basic practice in those 24/7 environments to re-boot those compters at least once a week as a requirement of preventative maintenance, regardless of the current state of the computer; it was an assurance that sooner or later, the computer would be guaranteed to fail at the most vulnerable time if the scheduled re-boot was not done.

The reality is that we all want to Linux to succeed but there is no way to achieve success without the major developers getting on board.

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astroturf me harder, dude[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:46:44 PM PDT

Astroturf me harder, dude.

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Neither is germane to this article.

Either name yourself with an email address we can check out (hey, you should have usenet postings back in 1984, right?) or post actual arguments instead of unsupported statements.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



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fvbh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
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Parent | Reply to This ]


cc[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 07:43:40 AM PDT

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More Oracle gripes[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 21, 2005 at 12:14:56 AM PDT

As long as we are griping about the way Oracle configures their product, how about looking at Oracle Enterprise Manager? The first time you log in to OEM you are presented with a license page that summarizes what features you may not use without an extra license. But after you click Accept all features, licensed and unlicensed, are fully available in the interface. To avoid unlicensed use of the software you need a cheat-sheet to tell you which links are clickable on which pages.

This is really a pretty small gripe since Oracle gives you access to what you paid for and even more, but if someone is trying to use only licensed software Oracle makes it more difficult than it needs to be.

anon



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Oracle's lack of support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 06:57:28 AM PDT

I've been an Oracle user since 1990.  Oracle's biggest drop in support was when they went offshore and outsourced many of the support functions.  Prior to that when you needed support you talked to someone who actually knew the product and stayed with you to resolve the issue.  Now the "support analyst" is reading from a script, doesn't understand what you are saying because of the language barrier, and is only interested in closing the TAR in order to get a check mark. Sometimes it seems that they get paid by the TAR closures.  For the amount of money we pay for support we don't get much from Oracle.  If we could just figure out how to tell Larry Ellison that he's acting just like Bill Gates it might change, but he's off in his own fantasy world and unreachable.


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Poor support from Oracle[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 02:31:12 PM PDT

I've had similar experiences, and concluded that Oracle's support groups have incentives to close TARs as quickly as possible.

There have been situations where I've created a TAR with very clear information about what I have and have not tried. It isn't unusual for the analyst to paste a "boilerplate" response and close the TAR, without recognizing that the solution provided has already been attempted and wasn't successful.

I've also seen cases where a lingering TAR was closed and opened under a different number in order to make it appear that the original case was closed, and didn't take as long to resolve as it really did.

Like other posters here, I've also been referred to articles that either didn't exist or that are internal and cannot be accessed by those outside of Oracle. And it isn't uncommon to find gross discrepancies and inaccuracies in some of the articles as well.

I've been working with Oracle for about 14 years and seen the quality of their support take a nose dive. If I have to call in, I'm careful to only log TARs at specific times in order to maximize the chances that I'll be routed to the traditionally better call centers. I avoid calling overnight unless absolutely critical.

The language barrier is only part of the problem. There is an attitude from the offshore centers, too. Not only is it obvious that most of the analysts (or should I say operators) lack the skill set, they lack the customer service ability as well. Nobody's support has ever frustrated me as deeply as Oracle's offshore workers consistently achieve. It seems that decisions for handling a TAR is based on the subject line, as I can't begin to count the number of times that I've been asked to provide information I've already provided, or told that I need to perform some configuration that is contrary to what I'm trying to accomplish. I'll repeatedly refer the analyst to the information already provided, or provide it again, only to have it ignored and another useless request from support made.

The most hilarious part of all of this (if you can find humor in the situation) is filling out the "quality survey" that often follows a TAR closure. If I rate the service poorly, I'll get an email or phone call from a manager asking if I might have rated inaccurately (misunderstanding a 1 is best for 5 is best, for example) or not rated the correct TAR. After providing details, I have yet to have received a follow-up in the form of an apology or promise to try harder. It leaves me feeling that the "bad" evaluations get tossed. That would make sense, considering the state of support. It certainly isn't getting better.

My final gripe is the "Collaborative Support" which is available for Microsoft Internet Explorer on Windows only. Ever since it came out (how many years ago I forget) I've been told that it'll support other browsers and OSs, but those of us running outside the Microsoft domain are still left without anything. I've actually had TARs where the analyst told me that without getting Collaborative Support to run he couldn't solve my problem.

Oracle does a good job of supporting a variety of platforms with its software, why not its support tools as well? Maybe we'll never know.

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zhuti[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 06:21:00 PM PDT

displayed

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Oracle Support?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 15, 2006 at 05:15:13 PM PDT

I have been an Oracle DBA for the past 12 years. Recently, I had the misfortune of needing support from Oracle. I had a production database that crashed in the middle of the night and I was trying to recover it. It was not going well, so I decided to contact Oracle. I have used Oracle's support in the past (not recent past) and was always very happy with the support. This time, it was an entirely different experience. The instructions from the analyst were so unclear that I had to update the TAR (Service Request as it is called now) with my understanding of what the analyst wanted me to do. Then the analyst would repeat more or less what I had written. It seemed to me that the analyst not only lacked the communication skills but also the necessary technical skills. He kept on wanting to use Collaborative Support even though I kept telling him that it does not work becuase of firewall issues at our installation. He wasted two hours trying to get me to use it. He seemed to be just spending time so he can pass the issue to someone else. He did succeed. It was early morning in U.S. and one of the local support centers picked up the call and suddenly we were getting the support we were used to getting. The communications were clear and we were able to come to an acceptable solution within a few hours. I have had to use the support once again since that last awful experience. The same story repeated. The support did not help much, and kept asking for the same information that I had already provided. Fortunately, it was not a very urgent issue. Finally, I was able to figure out what I needed to do on my own. I mentioned that in my SR and asked them to close the TAR. To my surprise, the analyst repeated what I had done as his instructions for me to follow. I don't even know if there is any monitoring of the support folks. All I can say that the support has gone from one of the best to possibly the worst I have ever encountered.

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bunsiness[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:54:45 AM PDT

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antimaulnetizm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#42)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 03:39:58 PM PDT



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eve[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#44)
by samezhen on Wed Jul 23, 2008 at 01:44:25 AM PDT

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