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Sage Has a Tough ACT to Follow

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 12:33:15 AM PDT

Perhaps changing its name to Sage will help, but under any name the software conglomerate that used to call itself Best Software in the U.S. is going to find it hard to clean up its Act. That's because readers, including some who know the company quite well, say the problems with the ACT! contact management program go deeper than the upgrade bugs we discussed a few months ago.


"I too have been an Act user for over ten years," wrote one reader in response to the story of a longtime Act user who upgraded one time too many. "I always upgraded to keep up on the latest features. This year I upgraded to Act 7.0 (also called Act 2005), and it has practically put me out of business. I use Act to keep in touch with client groups through postcards. Act 7.0 cannot print labels in landscape. It does not print addresses on envelopes on the correct side of the printer, it does not merge correctly with MS Word, and it cannot add sub-groups without crashing out of the contact. I could go on -- it is a mess. I had a good Best Software contact, but once the problems with Act became very apparent he quit communicating."

To be fair, some readers pointed out that Best -- while it was still calling itself that -- had made it clear it might break some eggs in its complete rewrite of Act last year. "I watched the Best website for information on Act 2005 before I bought it - I am just now beginning to use it - however, I had no illusions about what I was getting into," wrote a reader who had not used Act previously. The reader said that, starting last September, Best has prominently posted a number of updates on its website with expected timelines for the delivery of missing features and fixes. "It seems that Best Software has made an effort to communicate with current and prospective customers. Perhaps they could have done more, but in hindsight, this is better than some situations that I have seen."

Several readers from the Act add-on community told of their dismay over the problems besetting the latest version of Act. "I can't tell you how many horror stories I've heard about (Act) 2005," wrote one reader. "The two-way synching is almost comical because they hired an outside company to do it, but put so many restrictions on them that the link is deadly slow and one-way. Their own link -- CompanionLink -- is many times faster and syncs both ways. They don't mind; they get paid when you buy the program and paid when you have to buy CompanionLink to get the functionality you should have gotten. Best announced their ship date a year in advance and, come hell or high water, 7.0 was shipping August 24th. Don't look now, but they've announced 8.0 too -- before 7.0 is even fixed. The consultants and I, and many others, are praying for someone to wake up and pay attention to their customer base. We don't want to be the PackRat of the 21st century."

While some of the bugs in the new version have now been fixed, some readers are having problems getting help even with older versions of the software. "Our office uses Act 6.0, and we seem to be losing appointments after they are scheduled," a reader wrote recently. "We are synching via e-mail to other computers and are getting discrepancies in contact numbers and appointments. Several times a day we are getting fatal errors and having to shutdown Act. Where can we go for help?"

And another reader reports that the name change doesn't seem to keep Sage from thinking that it knows best, so to speak. "Act 2005 Premium for Workgroups server includes a network service that allows remote databases to sync with the master database," the reader wrote a few weeks ago. "The only problem is that if a user logs into the master server and then logs out, the service warns it will shut down on logout with no option for the user to leave the service running. Act offers no secure way around this. Worse yet, Best/Sage Software thinks this is the way it should be! The solution on the Sage website: 'Act 2005 is working as designed.' They think the administrator should just violate all security and stay logged in. The scary thing is they charge server per-seat based prices for the Premium Workgroup, but they're using single-user desktop quality attitudes."

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Sage Has a Tough ACT to Follow | 31 comments (31 topical) | Post A Comment
What a joke (and a bad one at that...)[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 12:30:11 PM PDT

I'm still getting upgrade notices for ACT!, and I'm still throwing them in the trash. From the sounds of things, it is a good idea that my company didn't upgrade our software.

[ Reply to This ]


What else can we do??[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 12:50:17 PM PDT

What options do we have for ACT! alernatives?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


ACT! alernatives[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by norami on Tue Oct 11, 2005 at 04:47:30 PM PDT

www.sugarcrm.com has an open-source product. I have asked them about importing ACT! databases, they say that it is doable. Maybe if a few more folks ask them it could get move up to a higher priority.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


pasing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#77)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#88)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 10:49:26 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#81)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:47:33 PM PDT

出会い出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニーエロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEアゲインで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


shearing machine[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#75)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#87)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 10:45:44 PM PDT

出会い出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニーエロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEアゲインで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#86)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 10:25:48 PM PDT

出会い出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニーエロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEアゲインで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


SAGE IS TOO BIG[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 06:21:22 PM PDT

The real problem is that Sage/Best company business philosophy is size. They have been on a buying spree for some time now. They had a CRM product called Saleslogix that hasn't brought in the expected revenue. So they bought Act to feed the animal. That didn't work so they bought ACCPAC and are now promoting ACCPAC's CRM as the CRM du jour. Where does that leave Act and Saleslogix? Their recent announcement is that they are going into the payroll processing business in direct competition with their own dealers. Why would they use valuable talent and resources to do that? Are they trying to be another Quickbooks? They are spread so thin that they are not doing a very good job in any of their product lines, especially Act.

[ Reply to This ]


Sage/Best/Interact/etc.etc.etc[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Kuda on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 01:59:53 PM PDT

Just a clarification...

SalesLogix (SLX) and ACT! were both created by a group of ex-GoldMine developers who broke off and formed their own company.  I can't remember off the top of my head what that company was called, but it eventually wound up being named Interact Commerce Corporation.  ICC was then purchased by the Sage Group, and for a short while SLX and ACT flew under the Sage banner.  Sage then was either bought by or changed its name to (not sure which) Best Software.  Best has now changed its name (back?) to Sage.  Lovely isn't it?
Essentially though, ACT is and always has been SalesLogix's little brother.  Both SLX and ACT were intended as replacements for GoldMine.
-- Any EULA sufficiently shrinkwrapped is indistinguishable from crap. -Me (with apologies to Arthur C. Clarke :)
[ Parent | Reply to This ]



History of ACT[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by DZRhino on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 04:58:36 PM PDT

History of ACT: ACT was created before GoldMine. The ACT company was founded by a salesguy that was a closet techie and he designed the original ACT to work in DOS. This is before Windows. I know, as I was one of the beta testers. Some years later after the last great release (ACT 2.0) Samantec bought the company. Then they proceeded to screw it up. First they had the next release done completely offshore based on inputs from marketing people at Samantec. Bugs, bugs, incompatibilities, more bugs. Release after release. Samantec became very distraught and did things like try to close down the ACT forum because there were too many flames. In the meantime, the original founders of ACT had taken their money and founded SalesLogix, which was to be a "multi-user ACT-alike for small to medimum companies". Then they bought ACT back from Samantec at fire sale prices. They really tried to get it back on track, but were focused more on SaleLogix. I tried to use SalesLogix in two companies, and it's installation and learning curve were really tough to handle. It looked like ACT, smelt like ACT, but underneath it was an enterprise database application and needed lots of care and feeding. They changed the name of the company to Interact Commerce Corp, but the problems continued. Then came Sage which bought ICC and then became Best in a merger. So the bright boys there decided to rewrite ACT as a Microsoft SQL application. First there was version 6.0 that was at least compatible with the prior ACT. Then they released 7.0. Guess what! History repeated itself:Bugs, bugs, incompatibilities, more bugs and realllllllly slooooowwwwwww. Minutes to do something that took seconds in ACT 5. What a piece of crap!! And the bad news is that many applications that did work with ACT 6.0 no longer worked at all. After decades of being a user of ACT, I have finally had it. I am not buying the next release. I am in the middle of converting all the data in my current ACT databases to export files and am going to re-install my copy of ACT 5 and use it until I can find a replacement. Several people are writing CRMs for individuals centered on Outlook and I am testing those. Goodby ACT, hello stranger.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Re: History of ACT![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Kuda on Mon Aug 08, 2005 at 09:30:31 PM PDT

Dang I knew I missed one in there somewhere... guess I also had my facts kinda jumbled :) Thanks for the proper clarification!
-- Any EULA sufficiently shrinkwrapped is indistinguishable from crap. -Me (with apologies to Arthur C. Clarke :)
[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Not exactly the chronological order.....[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 11, 2006 at 09:55:36 AM PDT

SalesLogix, which was the companies name when the first version of the SalesLogix product was shipped (v2.0) was founded by Pat Sullivan. Sullivan was a co-founder of Contact Software, the original creators af ACT!. The original product that would eventually become SalesLogix was called Propector. SalesLogix aquired the rights to ACT! from Symantec in late 1999. At that time, the company started development on it's own SaleForce.com like portal, Interact.com and asked share holders to approve a name change in April of 2000 to Interact Commerce Corporation. Unfortunately, that was the time the bubble burst, and the public company now trading on NASDAQ as ICC had just reinvented itself as an Internet company. After struggling for several months, the board approved the sale of the company to the Sage Group from the UK and was completed in May of 2001. Sage's American businesses operated under the name Best Software until 2005 when all Sage companies were renamed after the parent company as Sage Software. ACT! 2005 was a complete re-write of the application in a new programing language, and yeah.... there have been a few issues.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#82)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:48:15 PM PDT

出会い出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニーエロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEアゲインで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Act 2005 and the GateCrasher Trojan Horse issue[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by olivier ezfindfrance on Thu Sep 29, 2005 at 09:10:30 AM PDT

In addition to all problems that Act2005 introduces while trying to use it, I am concerned by the Trojan Horse named Gatecrasher that Norton detects;The reasons are the following : *Using a free download version of Act, Norton does not detect a Trojan horse, *Using a fully-licenced version of Act and the Example database when loading Act2005, Norton does not detect anything, *Using my own prospects databases, Norton raises an alarm " ... GateCrasher..." Best/Sage supports recommends to de-activate Norton ( kill the messenger, the message is no good). Why not, a piece of code could lure Norton, but why in the last case( alert on trojan horse), the port 6969 is wide open, as Gate crasher usually does, and not in the 2 previous cases. In addition why sql server opens wide the 1040 or 1048 ports (depends) ? In addition, why ACT2005 is dramatically slow when my computer is connected to the lan, and runs 25% faster when physically disconnected ? To check if the ports are open(use a dos window or command window)and type : netstat -nab this is what I get : TCP 0.0.0.0:445 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING [Système] TCP 0.0.0.0:1048 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING [sqlservr.exe] TCP 0.0.0.0:2804 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING [anbmServ.exe] TCP 0.0.0.0:6969 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING [Act7.exe] TCP 0.0.0.0:8082 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING [Act7.exe] TCP 0.0.0.0:9000 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING [Act7.exe] TCP 127.0.0.1:1027 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING [alg.exe] TCP 127.0.0.1:1036 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING [ccApp.exe] TCP 127.0.0.1:1196 127.0.0.1:8082 ESTABLISHED [ActEmail.exe] TCP 127.0.0.1:8082 127.0.0.1:1196 ESTABLISHED [Act7.exe] TCP 192.168.xxx.xxx:1075 12.129.78.233:80 ESTABLISHED [Act7.exe] UDP 0.0.0.0:1434 *:* [sqlservr.exe] You can note that : TCP 0.0.0.0:1048 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING [sqlservr.exe] is open to the entire world as well as TCP 0.0.0.0:6969 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING [Act7.exe] which is what triggers Norton. .... And you can note that my Act environment is permanently connected to act.support ( 12.129.78.233) but I did not authorize it, and it uses the port 80 (the www port) which cannot be filtered by my firewall unless having no www connection.... Has anyone encountered such problems ? By the way,I am using a single user licence !!! Thank's for your comments and sorry if my english is not perfect. Olivier

[ Reply to This ]


ACT! looses its way...doesn't anyone care?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by duanemsmith on Wed Mar 01, 2006 at 02:57:53 AM PDT

I too have been an ACT! user for over 10 years and a former ACT! Certified Consultant. I am not surprised at the state of the nation. ACT! was the flagship product of what today is called CRM software. Before there was CRM software, there was a category of software called contact management that was basically invented by the founders of ACT! who ran rings around the old Card File on Windows 3.1.1. The original founders Pat Sullivan & Mike Muhney had a great idea and back in those days one product was enough to build a company around. These days of corporate globalisation have left the poor software user all at see. Having brands and market dominance are more important to companies like Interact, Best & Sage then satisfying the needs of the small business owner who depends on ACT! to run his business. I have used and distributed many software programs in my time, but I think the early versions of ACT! were the most exciting. However, the purchase by Symantec of the ACT! software turned the product into a commodity and I questioned the value of being and ACT! consultant when you could simply by the software at your local department store. Also the support provided by Symantec was less than satisfactory. I then was invited to consider ACT! Certification again which I chose to do when ACT! was moved away from Symantec and back to they original developers. I was even encouraged by a emotive speech made by Mike Muhney where he was critical of Symantec and accused them of "milking the cow" by not investing in development and merely focussing on sales & marketing of the product. He promised that never again would we return to the days when product sales & marketing take priority over customer focus or user functionality. At this time there were promises made about ensuring that the backlog of issues and user requests for the ACT! 2000 (V5.0) product would be dealt with within 12 months. What actually happened was the product was given a face-lift in ACT! 6.0 and not really much was added in terms features (HTML Email) and existing problems with major features still outstanding (ACT! Synchronisation). I would suggest that if anything kills ACT! in the market it will be continued problems with synchronisation as any remote user or handheld user will testify to, however there was the pending release of ACT! 7, which would remedy all of this. In attending the pre-launch conference for the latest generation of ACT!, I was beginning to have concerns with the involvement of another software company (Microsoft). I did not see this as adding value to the ACT! product, but creating a liability in depending on an outside source for the core development environment and database engine. However, these issues seem minor by comparison to the issues of dealing with an organisation the size of Microsoft as well as the fact that the company had just launched it's own CRM solution. I like many ACT! consultants had reservations about this, however as the deals had already been done there was nothing really to do other then wait or "hope" that someday ACT! may support other database engines such as MySQL or others. As an ACT! Consultant your business is somewhat dependant on the ACT! software so you would like to have some influence on the direction of the product, however as the horror stories testify most of what happens with the ACT! product in terms of development is inflicted on us. It was mentioned earlier in the blog that August 2003 was the official release date of ACT! 7, however this was scheduled to take place in April 2003, but was delayed. This delay was very costly to my business as I am sure it was to many ACT! Certified Consultants. Therefore, we would require an exciting and very innovative product to overcome the cost of these delays. The product would need to be one that every user would want to upgrade to without hesitation. Well even I have been hesitant to use ACT! 7 and I still run ACT! 6.0 today (1st of March 2006) as my business could not afford to run on anything else. Needless to say I have moved out of the firing line as an ACT! Consultant as I believe the policies of the powers that be insist on upgrading customers even if it is to the determent of their business. I see this as grossly irresponsible and akin to inflicting commercial damage on small business with blatant disregard. I would not be surprised to see class actions brought against software companies in the future for this type of activity. What I have seen occur since ACT!2000, is a cancer that has slowly eroded the good name of the ACT! product. It started by bringing the ACT! & Saleslogix products together which was never going to be in the best interest of ACT!. Saleslogix would always get more funding and more attention from management because of where the product was positioned as a medium-enterprise solution as opposed to a small business solution. This has now been compounded with the acquisition by Sage, where ACT! sits amongst a suite of CRM solutions as the poorer cousin. The acquistion of ACT! by Interact, then by Best and now by Sage is all about the customer lists and not really about the product. The move to SQL for ACT! was not a wise choice as Saleslogix was already covering the ground of larger organisations that require a more powerful database mainly due to the scale of records and transactions. ACT! is ideally a top-end Personal Information Manager and should have a database that is very efficient in running databases under 100,000 records. However, the average ACT! user has between 500 and 10,000 contacts and SQL or MSDE is overkill. This fact is being born out by the fact that many ACT! Consultants who could not quality to sell Saleslogix are now selling ACCPAC or SageCRM in favour of ACT!. There is not the financial incentive for them to sell ACT! and also who wants to deal with the current grief. There are of course the larger ACT! Consultants that would not speak in any negative way or reveal the truth about what is going on as they would risk too much, however they know that even if ACT! was gone tomorrow they have already been gearing up to ACCPAC & SageCRM. This is no consolation for the poor soul trying to get support for their earlier versions of ACT! or trying to get a straight answer from anyone associated with Interact, Best or Sage. For the ACT! Fanatics and lovers of the dream I hope that one day soon there may be a solution to these woes that delight the Goldmines & Maximisers of today. Maybe there is some eccentric Billionaire out there that remembers when he first used ACT! and would like to save it from the hands of the stockholders of the Multinational CRM conglomerates.

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#90)
by maderikapapa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:47:24 AM PDT

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Sage isn't a new name[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 21, 2006 at 10:13:44 AM PDT

Sage was actually Sage before they were Best. They changed the name from Sage to Best around 2002 after losing a name infringement lawsuit. Sage in the US is owned by Sage, PLC in the UK. Sage grows by acquisition. Their have bought their market share. They own the top accounting product(s) in several countries. That is their core market. They often purchase multiple products in the same marketspace. They'd be much better off if they spent tens of millions on improving customer support rather than rebranding the Sage name to Best and then back to Sage again.

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#80)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:38:53 PM PDT

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231[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#84)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:55:27 PM PDT

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Yager Mainer[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#48)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:32:28 PM PDT

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#89)
by maderikapapa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:03:19 AM PDT

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123[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#49)
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