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Epson Rebate Turns Into Opt-Out Debit Card

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Thu Jul 21, 2005 at 12:24:57 AM PDT

It's already next to impossible to figure out what the various strings attached to rebate deals and sales promotion offers will actually cost you, but it becomes even more complex when you factor in the privacy issue. That's what one reader felt about a situation in which Epson set up an account for him he didn't want and with a financial institution that was not of his choosing.


"We bought a new Epson Inkjet printer that sounded like a great deal with all the rebates, etc.," the reader wrote. "But one of the 'rebates' actually comes back in the form of an Epson debit card, complete with Visa logo. This card is for a new account that Epson has set up for you with MyEcount, which includes sending your information to some company called C/Base in Pennsylvania unless you send them an opt-out notification to keep them from sharing your personal information."

The Epson card looks like a standard Visa-issued credit card except that it's labeled a debit card, the reader said. "It comes complete with a 16-digit account number, an A-size page of fine-print legalese, and associated account fees including a $3 dormancy fee after 90 days of inactivity, a $15 overlimit charge, and a $25 stop payment," the reader wrote. "So basically, without realizing it, I've sold MyEcount or maybe C/Base the right to sell and market my personal information for a measly $20 rebate. And I now have a new Visa account number that can be used via the web to order from merchants, or just as likely be stolen and abused by hackers. If you dig deep enough into the fine print, you find out that just by not returning the card you by default become responsible for the $15 overlimt fee should the new 'debit' account be overdrawn. Oh, and they will send you a check for the 'account balance' if you send the card back to my MyEcount -- please add another eight weeks to your rebate wait."

Not only would the reader have preferred no rebate to the debit account being created in the first place, but he would have happily chosen another brand of printer instead. "What a bunch of hooey!" the reader wrote. "If I want to create a debit account with a company, I'll do so on my own. Epson should not be creating new accounts for customers applying for rebates. I know I will now think twice about any new Epson purchases because of this debacle ... although I suppose previous horror stories about ink cartridges should have been enough, eh?"

< Reader Voices: Security Violation Disclosures | Dumb DRM Gets Boost From Sony Music CDs >


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Epson Rebate Turns Into Opt-Out Debit Card | 123 comments (123 topical) | Post A Comment
wow[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Mason on Thu Jul 21, 2005 at 01:07:09 AM PDT

I'm just speechless.  That is just plain one of the dumbest moves from corporate America I've ever seen.

[ Reply to This ]


ns[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Sun Jul 24, 2005 at 06:15:57 PM PDT

"Brash"? "Arrogant"? Without a doubt. "Stupid"? That remains to be seen. The American public's has been giving its tacit approval of the rebate racket so far. Failing some card company getting too greedy, I don't see this going away.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Might bite 'em in the ass, too[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Reziac on Mon Jul 25, 2005 at 02:31:53 PM PDT

Obviously this is in fact a partnership with some credit card company -- but without any of the usual credit checks one goes through when applying for a credit card via normal channels. So they are going to get all kinds of people, including a significant number of deadbeats. I wonder, under the contract between Epson and the CC company, who gets tagged with the deadbeats??

The idea itself is clever, and could even be useful if it were handled in a less slimey way (good way for young people to establish a credit history from scratch). But the fact that it has all those "and if you don't do this, we charge you that" crap attached to it negates any potential value.
~REZ~
[ Parent | Reply to This ]



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by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 25, 2005 at 06:02:59 PM PDT

This is a debit card, so I doubt that people actually are getting any credit for it.

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    I can't believe this is legal[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
    by wantobe on Thu Jul 21, 2005 at 02:21:56 AM PDT

    How can any company (or person) open a financial account in someone else's name? The Epson rebate program probably had some microprint explaining what would happen, but even then I don't see how Epson can open an account in a clients name without express permission, and that person be responsible for any fees.

    Something is fishy here, and if it's not illegal it should be made so.

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    --
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    [ Reply to This ]



    To file a complaint ...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
    by cemkaner on Thu Jul 21, 2005 at 05:14:51 AM PDT

    I think it is highly inappropriate to open a financial account in your name, without your permission. It might also be illegal.

    Here's a link, http://www.fedbanklaw.com/banking_regulatory_agencies/regulatory_federal_agencies.asp, to a lawfirm that posts links to the several federal and state agencies that regulate banking institutions.

    You might want to write the Feds and the regulators in your state and in the state in which the debit card issuer exists.

    I would also complain to VISA.

    VISA

    PO Box 8999

    San Francisco, CA 94128-8999

    Toll free: 1-800-VISA-911

    Web site: www.visa.com

    I am not a banking law expert. (I am pretty ignorant of banking law.) So don't rely on these questions and guesses as if they were legal advice.

    Here are a few of the questions I would ask:

    (a) Can a third party (Epson) open an account in your name without your permission?

    (b) Can ANYONE hold you liable for ANY charges on this account if you do not affirmatively agree to its terms of service? (I think not.)

    (c) Is it lawful for an institution to CLAIM that they can hold you accountable for unauthorized use of a debit card when you have not agreed to its terms?

    -- Cem Kaner

    [ Reply to This ]



    Those devilish details...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimdoria on Thu Jul 21, 2005 at 08:33:39 AM PDT

    Actually, this doesn't sound like such a terrible idea on its face. The "fine print" does make it a bit nasty.

    I wouldn't neccesarily object to getting a rebate as a prepaid debit card that I can use anywhere I want. It is conveninent, and I think convenience is what Epson was going for here. But you always pay a price for conveninece.

    It's the fees that make this onerous. If it's a DEBIT card, how can I go over-limit and be charged a fee? Arent THEY supposed to keep track of how much is on the card, and not approve more than the prepaid value? None of the other prepaid cards I've used have had this problem. (The dormancy fee is not quite as bad - neglect to deposit a rebate check for 3 months and you could lose the entire value.)

    Also, I'd want to know what, if any, impact this kind of account has on my credit rating. Do the credit bureaus count this on my score? How much? Does this count as a $20 credit line, or a credit line of some unknown maximum that represents the most money that can be put on the card?

    The privacy issues don't concern me too much. (How much of my spending habits can anyone track with $20?) If I got one of these, I'd probably just buy a book or a CD, then call and close the account.

    [ Reply to This ]


    The point[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
    by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 21, 2005 at 09:56:50 AM PDT

    Is why should you have "an accouint" for a rebate? And why should you have to call and cancel it once you spend it? Are people THAT freaking blase' in this country?

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Over-limit fees...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
    by bytehead on Thu Jul 21, 2005 at 12:10:24 PM PDT

    It's the fees that make this onerous. If it's a DEBIT card, how can I go over-limit and be charged a fee?
    This:
    "It comes complete with a 16-digit account number, an A-size page of fine-print legalese, and associated account fees including a $3 dormancy fee after 90 days of inactivity..."
    is how you get to go over-limit, unless you remember to cancel it. And then, you get smacked with the $15 over-limit charge at the same time.

    This is a racket, pure and simple. I'd be complaining to VISA, the Comptroller of the Currency, the FTC, and my state Attorney General's office, and I would directly name Epson, myEcount and C/Base, with copies of everything that you have sent to everybody else sent to these three companies as well, to show your displeasure with them. I would be sure to state in your letter to Epson that you will never purchase another Epson product. I would let the other two companies (possibly Epson as well) know that your letter terminates all business dealings and relationships with them, and that any communication whatsoever will be handled at a cost to them of $100 (or more) per hour or any part thereof which is non-negotiable.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Other agencys to notify[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:42:38 PM PDT

    Write to the store where you bought the printer that they you hold them responsible for any liability you may incure because of this rebate. If this is truly a debit card and bank account, and not just a gift card, you should also notify Homeland Security - opening bank accounts without confirming idenity is a violation of the PATRIOT act.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Ooooh...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
    by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 25, 2005 at 11:45:55 AM PDT

    ....I LIKE this idea - a violation of the Patriot Act!

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Over the limit fee?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 02:02:33 PM PDT

    How could they expect to collect an over-the-limit fee? They don't have access to a real bank account. What are they going to do, send a bill? Who would pay it? There hasn't been any application for credit, so it couldn't end up on a credit report.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Careful there[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
    by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 25, 2005 at 05:55:39 PM PDT

    Since I don't have the "fine print" in front of me, I'm kind of flying in the dark here, but... There are cases where using something constitutes your agreement to the "fine print" (think software). Make sure that using a card such as this doesn't become an agreement to the new account and all its associated fees.

    What I would do in this situation is: Run the card through my paper shredder (which handles cards). I'd then write a nasty-gram and send it to the authorities, Visa, the retailer, Epson and to the card issuer. I'd include the shards in the envelope to the issuer. In the letter I would explain the situation and demand a check for the advertised rebate (not that they would actualy send one). I would also be sure to state that I did not intend to open an account, do not authorize anyone opening an account for me and will not ever use any account I do not authorize.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Yet another reason[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
    by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 21, 2005 at 09:55:42 AM PDT

    ...to NEVER turst or use a rebate...

    [ Reply to This ]


    Yet another reason[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
    by wantobe on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 02:16:01 AM PDT

    to NOT overreact. Many rebates work just fine, and as an above poster pointed out, even this "debit card" isn't a terrible idea in itself. It's similar to a gift card but one that you can use anywhere.

    Rob Miles
    --
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    What's the purpose of the card?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 05:23:42 AM PDT

    I can't see the purpose of the card to decrease costs for Epson or the rebate house they use. Somebody would have to work hard to convince me that creating a batch of accounts with MyEcount and C/Base and issuing debit cards is less expensive than issuing a batch of checks. To me, this looks like a marketing scheme by MyEcount and C/Base. I would also like to point out that, except for online purchases, cash can also be used anywhere and is much more convenient. In fact, I would bet that cash can be used in more places than that debit card and it would be much more reliable and secure. Bill Simot

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Marketing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
    by tscoff on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 03:25:51 PM PDT

    I wouldn't be surprised if the card costs Epson $0 and MyEcount and C/Base paid for the card and put the money in the account hoping to get people to stay with them after they use the card the initial time.

    If I'm right, it's a sneaky underhanded move.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Marketing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 06:41:38 PM PDT

    Exactly. Give me the cas and be done with it.

    Bill Simot

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Yet another reason[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
    by Anonymous User on Sun Jul 31, 2005 at 01:10:08 AM PDT

    Hope this comes out in the thread as a reply to the person who posted the first reply in this thread. If not, bear with me and work your way back if you don't mind.

    I'm with you. Rebates in and of themselves are not bad. In fact, finding myself with a bad processor AND motherboard recently, I elected to build a new system using parts for which there is a sum total of $190 in rebates. Having, with one sole exception (OfficeMax, previously mentioned in Gripe Line), NEVER failed to receive a rebate, I felt perfectly comfortable spending over $500, counting "instant savings," or in-store price reductions, on a new case, MB, processor, and memory, knowing I would be getting back 40% of it in rebates.

    Yes, undoubtedly it would be better if the price reductions were simply taken at the register, and yes, they do count on people not being willing to take the time to meet the requirements, or simply forgetting to do so in time. But, hey, it's a damned GAME folks, and if you play it right you can realize significant savings without really too much effort at all. If you're one of the ones they don't count on, and save your receipts, UPC codes, etc. and send them in on time, then YOU are the one who gets over. Dig?

    Last year I showed a friend my Rebates database (I wrote it in HanDBase for my Clie to track my rebates--when I submitted them, what for, phone number, when expected, etc.) and he was amazed to see that in two years I had collected $1115 in rebates. We can bitch all we want that the "savings" aren't real, but they bloody well are if we bother to take the time to avail ourselves of them. I have a suspicion that, if EVERYONE were to satisfy rebate requirements and be issued their checks, the manufacturers and retailers would be forced to come up with some other method of making their products competitive in the marketplace.

    As long as a satisfactorily large percentage of purchasers never bother, you can bet your ass they are going to continue to ride the gravy train. See, it's called "business" in some circles, and plain old reality in others, but the fact is, if you play the game by the rules you win. If you don't, they win. Period. The odds are better by far than when I take a couple hundred down to Belterra Casino in the hope of hitting on Caribbean Poker.

    That said, this scheme sucks. I ALWAYS read the terms of rebates before purchase, and I would have, and would, stay as far away from this particular "qualifying purchase" as possible.

    After all, that's part of the game. ;-)

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    fvbh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#89)
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