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Reader Voices: Security Violation Disclosures

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 12:03:55 AM PDT

Readers had a plethora of responses to the question in my recent story about whether banks should disclose which accounts were exposed in the CardSystems' debacle. And while they offered a number of interesting answers, I think some of the additional questions that were raised are even more intriguing.


Several readers with knowledge of the financial industry said the calls for full disclosure were overblown. "You publish your credit card number every time you use it," said one reader. "Do you really trust the guy at Starbucks with his pants hanging to his knees? Think that pimply 17-year-old kid working at McDonalds won't copy your number when you're gone so he can call a 1-900 line because he can't get a date? Every single time you use your credit card number, you are giving it to someone new ... Do you really think that just by knowing the status of your card number, you'll be able to prevent fraud? No. If you didn't get the notice, will you be as diligent with your statements as you should? It's unlikely. While the issuers appreciate your diligence, you're going overboard. Yes, be careful with your number, but don't be afraid. The decision to notify should rest with the issuers. They need to evaluate the costs associated with issuing new plastics versus uploading the list of compromised cards from the Associations and marking them as high-risk for mail order/telephone order fraud."

Even those who agreed the banks shouldn't be required to notify all customers, however, thought there were still unanswered questions. "I actually agree with the banks on the notification issue," another reader wrote me. "It would cost these banks anywhere from $40 to $80 million to send the notices to customers, most of which would simply round-file it. The fact that banks are using outside processing companies should come as no surprise to anyone familiar with current business practices. Banks are in the business of extending credit, not processing transactions. So we all actually benefit by the outsourcing of this function to specialist firms. Where the banks have severely fallen down is not performing proper due diligence on their suppliers of critical services. CardSystems stated it normally purges this information upon processing completion. So what happened this time? Was it dumb chance? A disgruntled employee? An inside job? These and many other questions will have to be answered."

While the big banks mostly feel that disclosure is too expensive a proposition, quite a few readers told me that credit unions seem to have a different attitude. "I'm IS Director at a midsized credit union -- 50,000 members -- and we had 4000 cards compromised," wrote one reader. "We ordered replacements for all of them immediately and sent letters to the affected members. Our primary focus is always on the member's situation. All of us employees are members too and we know how we would like to be treated were we on the other side of the counter."

Banks have little incentive to reform the system as long as merchants are the ones who really foot the bill for credit card fraud. "One thing you don't mention and the public is not aware of is that the reason the card companies aren't notifying consumers -- unless fraud occurs -- is that as long as those cards are in circulation the card companies are making a fortune," an online merchant wrote me. "If the card is used fraudulently the one that pays for it is the merchant who accepts the card. He has the money yanked out of his bank account along with a chargeback fee of anywhere between $25 to $40. Plus he has lost his merchandise, shipping fees and the percentage he pays to the card company for the sale. So they do not have any incentive to do anything about it. If the card companies had to eat these costs themselves, they would move pretty quickly to rectify the situation. Remember, when the merchant accepts the card he has been informed that the card and the sale are good. We need for the government to step in and get some kind of control over them. The merchant should not be penalized when he has been told that the card is good when all the time the card company already knows the information has been stolen."

With it still not exactly clear what CardSystems was doing with the data they had retained for "research" purposes, readers weren't so sure they can believe the assurances that the security breach won't lead to many kinds of identity theft. "Isn't there other info like the merchant's name, address, transaction amount, etc.?" wrote one reader. "These could be used to build a profile against the card number. Combine that data with another database that lets you look up a person, like a phone book database or the one behind Googling your name, and you can get a pretty high certainty of who the card user is and where they live. You've got to consider what can be done to extend and merge the data with other databases that can be bought/stolen/used free. The value of any bit of data may not be much, but the aggregate that can achieved by merging with other databases can be quite powerful."

And several readers who had recently found bogus charges on their credit cards also wondered if they had been exposed by CardSystems. "My bank did not hold me responsible for the charges and they've issued me a new card number, but they were quite stern in suggesting it was all my fault that bad guys had acquired my information," wrote one card fraud victim. "Now I'm trying to find out if my card number was involved (in the CardSystems breach), but my bank won't tell me. They say they can't reveal anything about their fraud investigations, not even to those who have been victimized. A likely story ... they are just afraid I'll sue them along with CardSystems if I find out who was actually responsible."

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Reader Voices: Security Violation Disclosures | 148 comments (148 topical) | Post A Comment
Over Looked Solutions[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by srynas on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 12:28:45 PM PDT

Though fraud $$$$ losses are big, obviously they are not big enough to trigger reforming the system.

One easy solution, PIN numbers for credit cards.  PIN numbers on credit cards would reduce the potential for a "casual" crook utilizing the card. Such a "casual" crook ran up a $300 in charges at gas pumps and grocery stores when we lost our card. (We didn't have to pay. I am also still curious as to how they accomplished going to so many gas stations, since we reported the card lost very quickly.)

Another solution would be changing the account number every year. These solutions would appear to be low cost and would significantly deter casual fraud. The fact that they have not been implemented implies that the banks are not really concerned about these lossess.

[ Reply to This ]



Merchant pays???? I don't think so.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by schwit on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 02:30:29 PM PDT

All fraud or shrinkage costs will get passed onto consumers. Businesses are not charities.

Implementing PINs, changing CC numbers and checking IDs can help. But companies will continue to raise only a token finger until it becomes a criminal offense(CEO going to jail) not to safeguard user information. Financially endangering consumers should be a criminal offense.

[ Reply to This ]



yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#58)
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Banks like to play it both ways[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 06:30:04 PM PDT

In March, my credit card information was stolen from a merchant in a nationally publicized case. The bank was informed by the merchant and this probably occurred quickly. I was informed 3 months later and contacted the bank. They immediately closed the account and issued new cards upon my contact. They had the information earlier but choose not to act until I contacted them. This is in my opinion an instance of a major bank paying lip service to security and privacy.

[ Reply to This ]


Security Violation Disclosures[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 05:28:50 AM PDT

Your readers who defend the banks refusal to disclose miss a key point. In stealing the information, one crime has already been committed, and the further misuse of stolen personal data would constitute additional crimes. By refusing to inform the victims of the first crime that their information has been stolen, the banks are denying them any chance of seeking remedy independent of the banks. Failure to report a crime and notify those hurt by it is at best immoral and may be criminal, depending on motive. As to remedies, one may ask what remedy could be sought if the perpetrator is unknown. The answer is that there could be a groundswell of action demanding tighter controls of such databases, and better traceability of such things as credit card purchases, as well as raising penalties. If your pocket has been picked but you don't know how, it is hard to take action. But if your credit card info is stolen while in the care of the bank or its sub-contractors, you have a right to know and to take appropriate action. This is a clear case of the banks being in denial about their screw-up.

[ Reply to This ]


credit card databases[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by CCTruth on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 06:42:28 AM PDT

I work in IT at a company like Cardsystems, only much much larger. Earlier in the week VISA and American Express said that Cardsystems would no longer be their processor as of 10/31 because of the security violations associated with the breach. What a joke. Cardsystems just had the bad luck to get caught. Security is just as bad if not worse at my company. Wednesday at our office a companywide communication went out gloating over the fact that Cardsystems was being shut down and my company would be getting some or all of their accounts. VISA blames Cardsystems for not giving full disclosure to the VISA Compliance auditors last year. These auditors only make a cursory investigation into data security - they simply rely on what they are told. If the company hides something - the auditors never know. The company I work for holds that same "forbidden information" that Cardsystems did except by the billions instead of millions - the auditors have never said a word about it. And that's only a small part of the problem. Audits are done, remediation plans are made but never completed. VISA just looks the other way. Yesterday the credit card executives couldn't even tell Congress what criteria they had for audits, or what criteria they had for the companies doing the audits (Financial Services Subcommittee had hearing yesterday on this issue). It did not go over well with the committee members. VISA and the other card associations should make these companies have internal auditors that work FOR VISA come around periodically to spot check, or make them have IT auditors on site to maintain compliance. For my company - the audit is just a big joke - they just say "Oh, we'll just have to pay the fines..." and then they laugh. They are kind of missing the BIGGER PICTURE i.e. why you need security in the first place. It is absolutely vile.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Replacing of Cards?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 07:10:06 AM PDT

I wonder how many people got new Mastercards from MBNA? Their letter says that I requested a new number (which I didn't since I had not been notified I was in the CardSystems set). When I called to ask what was going on, I was told "typo" - my bank had actually requested that a card with a new number be issued. I am still waiting to see if my mother gets a new card or not. Seems like something fishy is going on - why the claim that I wanted the new number???? a four page typo?

[ Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#59)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:16:28 PM PDT

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So what's the deal with cnhuzhu?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by rodak on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 08:01:56 AM PDT



[ Reply to This ]


Re: So what's the deal with cnhuzhu?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Ed Foster on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 05:26:18 PM PDT

I'm not sure if he's just a persistent link spammer or if he's trying to destroy the site. I've knocked him off and he keeps coming back. -- Ed

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#55)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:15:33 PM PDT

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