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Alienated Over Onsite Support

By Ed Foster, Section Columns
Posted on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 01:26:48 AM PDT

Almost all onsite support contracts from system manufacturers contain some weasel words to the effect that the decision to actually send a tech to your site is at the manufacturer's discretion. But how extreme do your circumstances have to be before they agree to actually provide the onsite support you paid for? To judge by one reader's recent experience with Alienware at least, it would seem that the more you need onsite support, the less likely you are to receive it.


While support horror stories are regular fare here on the GripeLog, this one is somewhat atypical in that the victim is not an anonymous voice crying in the wilderness. Cem Kaner is a professor of software engineering at the Florida Institute of Technology, director of its Center for Software Testing Education & Research, and a software industry veteran. My longtime readers know that he's also an attorney, a leading voice in the fight against UCITA, and the author of a book -- Bad Software -- that explains how to deal with recalcitrant technology vendors. So he's rather uniquely qualified for the battle he's found himself engaged in with Alienware in recent months.

On his Bad Software website, Kaner is in the process of documenting the entire painful saga in great detail. In August last year he bought an Alienware Roswell 3150 system that was preconfigured with the Matrox RTX100 Extreme Pro video card for an on-line video courseware project he was working on. The price of the system, including $299 for a "3-Year AlienCare Toll-Free 24/7 Phone Support with Onsite Service" service contract, was substantially higher than he might have paid for a similar system from another vendor, but product reviews he read convinced him Alienware had the product quality and support he required. "I appreciate good quality," wrote Kaner. "I cherish good quality. I understand that quality costs money, and so I accept the fact that if I want something really good, I'll have to pay for it."

After months of shipping difficulties and performance problems that he wrestled with using Alienware's online resources, Kaner was far from happy with his system. He was pleased, however, when in April Alienware took the initiative to contact him to inform him of a conflict between the Matrox card and his RAID controller. "I was in fact so pleased that in a purchasing decision we were just making at Florida Tech, I chose to get an Alienware system for the school rather a different company's machine," he wrote. "In retrospect, that was a silly mistake."

At first, Kaner thought it would be a matter of simply swapping out the controller for a new one, so he agreed to do it himself. But he soon discovered that he was actually having to rebuild the computer piece by piece, moving the Matrox card and re-wiring cables in ways that were severely taxing his time and his manual dexterity. As the hours he was spending working on his non-operational computer turned into days and then weeks, he repeatedly demanded that Alienware honor his onsite service contract and send someone to do the work that was beyond him.

"In the course of attempting to repair this computer, I spent hours on the phone with Alienware's tech, swapping the locations of boards, replacing a board, reformatting the hard disk, reloading all of the software on the disk and so on," Kaner wrote. "I protested repeatedly during my calls with him that this was inappropriate, that I was not skilled at this work, and that I thought such things as board replacement and rebuilding the system would normally be handled by Alienware's technicians. He insisted that I act as, in effect, the onsite technician."

The only alternative Alienware would offer him to serving as his own technician was to ship the computer off to their repair depot. "I needed this computer for work that had to be done in late April and early May -- shipping it away was just out of the question," Kaner wrote. "That's the problem with mail-away support and why people buy expensive service contracts. The response to my statements that I expected onsite support were that the service contract makes it a matter of their determination whether I am entitled to onsite support, phone support or depot support, and they determined that onsite support was unnecessary."

But if you're not entitled to onsite support to fix hardware that's known to be defective, when would you ever get it? I contacted Alienware a few weeks ago to ask if they could explain their support policies in this regard, and their spokesperson said they would get back to me. They haven't, and my subsequent calls have gone unreturned.

In the meantime, Kaner has escalated his battle with Alienware far past the demand for onsite support. I recommend that you keep an eye on his chronicle, because when finished I believe it will serve as a very valuable resource on how to deal with ugly warranty support situations. In fact, I'm going to offer him a title for it: Bad Hardware Encounters of the Alienating Kind.

< A Defining Moment for Spyware EULAs | Reader Voices: Security Violation Disclosures >


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Alienated Over Onsite Support | 73 comments (73 topical) | Post A Comment
On Site Warranty Repair[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by tscoff on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 02:16:46 AM PDT

I'm getting quotes right now for 128 computers for the school district where I work.  I put in the specifications that we need on site warranty repair and I defined on site warranty repair as follows:

The customer will restore the computer to the configuration it had when it left the factory.  If that does not fix the problem the vendor will come out on site to troubleshoot and fix the problem.  The customer's troubleshooting will be limited to restoring the computer to it's factory default configuration.

So far one vendor has told me that they won't quote because they can't offer that type of service, and I'm only accepting quotes from the big, nationwide vendors.  Your experience with the Alienware computer is the norm, not the exception.

[ Reply to This ]



On Site Warranty Repair[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by cemkaner on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 08:32:40 AM PDT

In your case, you are asking vendors to agree to a service contract, and they are refusing.

In my case, I shopped for a company that offered great service, found one, paid for it, but they won't live up to their promises.

That's a big difference.

Here are some of the things Alienware says (go to the Warranty Bundle section and click on the "Click here to learn more!" link):

"Demand no less than the ultimate in protection. With this plan, not only will you receive a specially discounted price, but you'll also enjoy ...
  • Peace of mind, knowing that you have an entire company at your disposal, equipped and ready to ensure that your computer is performing at the superior level you deserve.
  • No fees for parts, labor or shipping for any warranty repair, no matter what the cost.
  • Onsite Service. If at all possible, you won't have to come to us for your service needs - we'll come to you."
I bought the computer in reliance on that promise. I've been requiring (and taking the benefits of) onsite service contracts (as an individual and as a corporate buyer) on every computer I buy for many years. If a company makes promises about its products or services that it has no intention of keeping, that is fraud.

In your case, the vendors have declined your proposal. They are not accepting a deal and then failing to do their part. What they're doing is honest business.

By the way, my wife Becky was a school tech for several years before recently going back to university for her Ph.D. She managed a network of 300 computers--the District had many more. They got onsite support contracts and their (several) vendors honored them. Similarly, our vendors at Florida Tech provide and honor onsite service contracts. The problem might be in the specific wording of your proposal.

-- Cem Kaner

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Extened support?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 10:49:43 AM PDT

Just curious, since you are having all these problems with the computer and the fact it hasn't worked for many months, have you asked [or they offered] to extend your warrenty any?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Extended Support?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by cemkaner on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 04:54:57 PM PDT

Alienware did not offer to extend my warranty.

Because they were refusing to honor their onsite service promises, I didn't see any point in asking them to extend it.

Instead, after months of down time and arguing with their tech support folks, I finally gave up on Alienware, bought a Dell XPS Gen5 (I've had a few problems with Dell, but Dell, Toshiba, and Fujitsu are 3 examples of companies who really do provide onsite support if you pay for an onsite support contract, at least in my experience) and demanded a full refund from Alienware.

When I ordered a $5400 computer from Alienware, the goal was a high quality, fast system that I could count on for reliable video production.

You can see the video work that I'm doing at http://www.testingeducation.org/BBST.

Alienware wasn't willing or able to get the system working in a reasonable time. I gave them more time and more time and more time. Eventually, giving them even more time was just not on the list. -- cem kaner

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



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  • [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Weasel words[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
    by tcsbiz on Sat Jul 16, 2005 at 01:07:33 PM PDT

    I notice Alienware is using a phrase with weasel words that may get them out of onsite service. I point this out somewhat in jest, but, you never know!

    The sentence the phrase is in is:

    "Onsite Service. If at all possible, you won't have to come to us for your service needs - we'll come to you."

    The weasel words are "If at all possible". Imagine these excuses:

     * "A tech was not available within xxxx miles, so onsite support was not possible".
     * "Our revenue was down last quarter making onsite support not possible".
     * "We don't care, so onsite support is not possible".
     * "we are not obligated to provide onsite support because our promise includes the words 'If at all possible' and it is never possible, at all".

    Alienware just wants this to mean "Not at all possible".

    Tom.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Alienware site not accessible[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 02:08:18 PM PDT

    Alienware's site must be getting hammered by Ed's faithful followers. I keep getting a server too busy error message when following the link you posted, Cem. :)

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#337)
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    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    On Site Warranty Repair[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
    by techy on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 02:29:37 PM PDT

    I agree that onsite should be sent when someone is incapable of installing parts for a computer only after they have tried to do it. I also think if you can't install parts into a computer you need to hang up your pocket protector.
    computer tech
    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Do the PC vendors *ever* come onsite?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 06:53:40 AM PDT

    A medium to large sized organization would be likely to have their own people on staff so they wouldn't really need the on-site service. A small organization may not have that but the contracts from the vendors always (the ones that I have seen anyway) have language that allows them to determine the necessity of on-site vs. ship-it-back. It has to be cheaper for them to have it shipped - so do they ever come onsite?

    [ Reply to This ]


    Well...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 07:47:55 AM PDT

    I used to work for a small VAR that worked with a local school district on purchasing and configuring and installing several thousand Gateway computers. We were contracted through Gateway to handle on-site support. Maybe you need that kind of support. Purchase through an authorized center that can do the local support. We always would go on site to fix problems unless it was obvious something big was needed, but the district did have a competent computer staff that fixed most things themselves...

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Some PC Vendors Do[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
    by tscoff on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 03:58:14 PM PDT

    Some PC vendors do come on site.  They can't compete with Dell and Gateway on price because they have to earn enough money to pay for the on site technicians.

    You get what you pay for.  Buy a more expensive computer with a good warranty and you'll get better service.  Buy a couple of hundred of those computers and you'll get great service.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Not the point[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
    by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:40:21 AM PDT

    The point is not that you get what you pay for.  The point is that sometimes you pay and still don't get what you paid for.  That's when it's time to start making trouble for the company that defrauded you.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    On-Site service[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
    by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 16, 2005 at 01:38:35 AM PDT

    I purchased a Dell 8300 18 months ago for personal use via a corporate partner program (my employer is Fortune 100 and a large Dell customer). The CPU failed twice within the first 8 months. Dell sent a tech to my home within 3 days of both occurences and replaced all the parts needed (and some I didn't think were needed) at no cost to me. I was HIGHLY impressed as I have never received such service in the past from ANY vendor. While I purchased the pc for personal use, I am personally convinced the service level is at least partially explained by my method of acquisition. I'm sure Dell wouldn't want a major customer's employees complaining about service. It might color their buying decisions.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Design flaw[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
    by Reziac on Mon Jul 25, 2005 at 02:22:54 PM PDT

    In my experience, CPUs very rarely fail even under conditions of extreme abuse. When they do, it's because of either bad power (many shocks to the system, and even then memory and the mainboard will probably fail first) -- or chronic, massive overheating.

    Almost every name-brand system I've had my hands inside has had inadequate CPU cooling. In OEM machines the CPU typically does not have its own fan, but has to rely on a hood leading to the power supply fan (an obstructed airway at best). Naturally, the CPU runs hot (MUCH hotter than with a dedicated CPU fan) and that shortens its working lifespan.

    Theoretically these OEM cases are designed for best airflow for cooling, but in my observation this just isn't true. In fact, the two components most adversely affected by heat, the CPU and the hard disk, are typically the most poorly ventilated components.

    Having seen such setups even in top-of-the-line OEM systems, I have come to believe the poor airflow is by design, as a sort of planned failure date -- keep 'em just cool enough that they don't fail until after the warranty is up.

    The fact that you had two CPUs fail in such a short period leads me to believe that yours were suffering from overheating, likely due to poor ventilation -- by design. Except this time they miscalculated and overdid it.

    And you are absolutely correct -- purchasing through a corporate program changes their attitude toward warranty service. After all, you might be a CEO!
    ~REZ~
    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    On Site Support[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 07:21:11 AM PDT

    Yes, they do! While I am capable of swapping out parts if need be, I don't have the time for it. I've had both IBM and Compaq come out to replace parts - Compaq once even came out when they were clearly not required to by the contract, although that was rather unusual, and I would no expect those circumstances to be repeated. Even on the Presarios - where tech support left LOTS to be desired, I've had techs come out - too often, but that's a different story, and a major reason that I don't by the low end / "consumer" products any more. (I should NOT have needed several visits from the tech to deal with one problem on one machine, and I should not have had 3 problems that required a tech to come out on another machine.)

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Experience with Dell[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
    by jam on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 09:04:53 AM PDT

    I thought I'd share the experience I had with Dell.  Of course, this is just one experience out of millions, I'm sure, and may not be what others have experienced.

    I bought a Dell a few years ago, and a few months after I bought it, the CPU fan went out.  I noticed because the CPU was heating up, and slowed itself down, as well as getting messages from the BIOS on boot.  Luckily, I had a Pentium 4 which limits the CPU speed when overheating to avoid damage to the chip. So, I called Dell, and went through all the trouble of talking to someone who was clearly in India.  I don't have any problem with Indians, but the person I spoke with could hardly speak English.  

    Anyway, after going through the script they had, the agreed that it was the CPU fan, and that they'd send a replacement.  Within a day or two, as I don't remember exactly how soon it was, but it was fairly quick, a technition arrived at my home and installed the new CPU fan.  I didn't have to insist that they come out to fix it--they offered, even though I would have personally been comfortable with replacing the part myself, as long as I had instructions.

    The other thing that amused me about this was a few months later, I got a call from Dell saying they had been having problems with the CPU fans on my model, and offered to mail me a spare in case mine ever went out.  The caller didn't know if the new one that they had replaced was one of the defective ones or not, so they just sent me a spare.  Luckily, I haven't had to use it in the last year and a half.

    [ Reply to This ]



    Bill them[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 09:24:45 AM PDT

    "He insisted that I act as, in effect, the onsite technician." If they are claiming that you are their technician then bill them. I have found that my local Consumers Protection Board is actually usefull. Try them.

    [ Reply to This ]


    Dell onsite support[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 10:08:31 AM PDT

    I have had Dell onsite dozens of times, both for PCs bought through corporate purchasing, and onesy-twosy customers who were financially insignificant to them. Although they (rightly) generally required me to run their diags, they have never declined to come onsite for a problem that required it. They have consistently lived up to my expectations of "Next Bus. Day Onsite Support."

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    on-site "support"[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
    by genuinegenius on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 11:18:52 AM PDT

    My most popular service call is for Dells that are not fixed by the on-site "support" technician.

    I'm tempted to advertise that "we fix your Dell when Dell doesn't."

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Recent Gateway Experience[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
    by auctionhugh on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 10:16:25 AM PDT

    At my day job, I am a systems analyst supporting about 75 PCs and Laptops in addition to office systems.

    We have a VP with a more expensive gateway laptop and two docking stations, one at home and one at work.

    Recently the network port in the docking station stopped working, and with a jeweler's loope it became clear some pins were bent on the docking station port on the bottom of the laptop.

    My coworker called in to Gateway and was told that this was not a warranty covered item.

    I called back for a second try, described the situation, and they said it was a warranty item and offered to send a tech out with a new motherboard.

    Two days later all is well.

    I would not generalize this experience to all Gateway support, but my latest experience and those in the past as well have been pretty good.


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    [ Reply to This ]


    ComputerRepair.com[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 04:46:56 PM PDT

    Forget those contracts most OEMs use ComputerRepair.com anyway - just go to their site and get on-site service when you want it......

    [ Reply to This ]


    It's Time for a Hardware Lemon Law[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
    by cemkaner on Fri Jul 15, 2005 at 05:58:00 PM PDT

    Lemon laws give rights to customers who buy defective cars. The lemon laws were enacted because too many car dealers and manufacturers gave the runaround to too many lemon owners.

    When an industry refuses to deal responsibly with its customers--as used to be true with the auto industry and is too often true with computer and software companies today--the government steps in.

    It takes a long time for the government to step in, and it should take a long time. This is a drastic step. But once an abusive pattern becomes clear enough and well enough established, government intervention is inevitable.

    Over the last few years, I've reviewed computer lemon law drafts for several legislative aides and a few staff from different states' Attorney General offices. In each case, I recommended against the computer lemon laws because they imposed impossible requirements.

    For example, they often said that if you buy a defective computer program, the vendor or manufacturer must fix and replace it within three days (or thirty) (or sixty). This is reasonable for manufacturing defects--just swap in a replacement part. But it's often impossible for design defects--defects that show up in every product of this kind. Rushing a software fix can create many more problems than it solves.

    The experiences that I document with Alienware at my AlienwareSucks blog, and so many other customer complaints about Alienware and about so many other computer vendors illustrate the need for a lemon law for computers.

    The challenge will be to draft a law for computers that doesn't unfairly penalize computer makers for defects in third party components or software that the computer maker has no control over.

    In my Alienware case, several of the problems appeared to involve a Matrox video coprocessor card and a motherboard that probably hadn't been manufactured by Alienware. But Alienware had selected these components and advertised a system built around them. It advertised capabilities of a multimedia production computer that were rooted in these components. In this case, just as we hold a car company accountable for defective cars even when the defects are in components made by subcontractors, I think it would be fair to hold Alienware accountable for defects or too-long-unresolved incompatibilities in its system components.

    In contrast, I think it's obvious that it would be unfair to hold a computer vendor liable for a defect in Windows, because vendors are pretty much stuck with Windows. And I think it would be unfair to hold a computer maker liable for problems a component the customer buys in a separate purchase from the computer.

    I'll probably spend a few months thinking about this before making a concrete proposal. If you can offer some guidance, please do. -- cem

    [ Reply to This ]



    Lemon laws[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
    by tcsbiz on Sat Jul 16, 2005 at 01:19:43 PM PDT

    Lemon laws for computers may work providing the hardware company is held liable only for their original configuration. I think a company such as Dell should be held accountable for using Windows if it knows it's a defective product. This could "help" MS fix problems with its software. But Dell would be held accountable for using Windows in the original configuration.

    The moment someone installs software or hardware on their Dell without Dell's o.k., the computer would no longer be under the lemon law. It is impossible to test systems under all possible hardware and software configurations. You can't expect hardware companies to be reposnsible for changes made to the systems at someone's home or business.

    Tom.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Lemon[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
    by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 16, 2005 at 09:32:00 PM PDT

    It may not be possible to test every hardware/software configuration, but excluding a system from Lemon Law coverage just because a user installed software or hardware not purchased from the computer vendor will make the Lemon Law useless. How many users buy a system and don't install any other software or uninstall a bunch of useless "trial version" software pre-installed by the vendor?

    It would be sort of like being unable to use the automotive lemon law unless you used fuel/oil/tires only available at the dealer.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Lemon Laws/Dell is horrible[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
    by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 09:38:08 PM PDT

    Lemon laws should apply to all computers even if you have installed software not approved by the vendor. What in the world would be the purpose of purchasing a computer if you cant even install your printer on there! the truth is big corporations like DELL are screwing people over big time. If you have heard my story, you would completely agree with me. Just keep all this in mind when it comes time to purchase ur new computer; make sure to steere away from dells new products, especially the dimension 5100.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Windows Defect[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
    by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 16, 2005 at 09:44:55 PM PDT

    "In contrast, I think it's obvious that it would be unfair to hold a computer vendor liable for a defect in Windows, because vendors are pretty much stuck with Windows. And I think it would be unfair to hold a computer maker liable for problems a component the customer buys in a separate purchase from the computer."

    I don't agree. When you buy a computer with Windows pre-installed (and have you noticed how difficult it is to buy a PC WITHOUT Windows? MS is a "convicted" monopolist, yet it's still nearly impossible to buy a PC without the MS tax.) you are informed that support for the system is to be provided by the system's vendor, not MS. The vendor made the choice to sell the system with Windows installed; they should be held responsible if the system doesn't perform as advertised, no matter what component is defective. By excluding the OS from the Lemon Law proposal, you remove a powerful incentive on the part of vendors to insist MS fix the problems in its OS in a timely manner. As they are MS's largest customers, MS is more likely to be responsive to them than they are to the end-users.

    As to installing other components not purchased from the vendor, that's kind of a gray area. If it's a common component that is used in many other systems without problems, then yes, the PC vendor should be held responsible if it doesn't work in their system, unless they warn the purchaser in advance that it is not compatible for some reason.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    They can sell windows, with caveats[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
    by foxyshadis1 on Sun Jul 17, 2005 at 06:29:09 PM PDT

    Maybe vendors should be required to send out quarterly mini-CDs for x years containing a rollup package of all the MS updates and driver updates to come out in that time. Vendors can't foresee all MS problems, and it may be that the catastrophes of 2k and XP won't be repeated with Longhorn. (Maybe.) Quarterly updates and a CD with a reinstall+all drivers would probably be due diligence.

    I'd love to hold Compaq accountable for pre-installing a Norton that destroys Windows when you uninstall it. It's norton's fault for having a screwed up uninstaller, but it's Compaq's fault for locking us into a known buggy program.

    Or they could sell barebones and have no liability other than hardware. Drivers don't work, software doesn't work, tough.

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    Beware of new HP's with Win XP MEDIA ED[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#53)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 08:17:48 PM PDT

    The fact is ... my new HP Pavilion A1319H (P4 2.93GHZ) says it comes with Microsoft Windows XP Media Edition for the OS. Truth is ... this is not a Microsoft supported product, it's an OEM (HP) product. HP has mucked it up with all kinds of proprietary "features" that can only be supported by HP ... more than 11GB of extra stuff! If that isn't false advertising, What Is? The above statement stems from the unfortunate install failure of a main-line big-name video editing package. The nightmare began between HP support and the ap's Mfgr support people. HP can only restore from a backup partition that supposedly contains the files the system shipped with, so we did a couple of complete reinstalls. The Manufacturer of the video ap had me perform there uninstall/install several times. Still does not work and I've lost 1/2 week. I think I'll have to go out and buy MS Windows XP Home Edition and wipe out everything on the HP and install XP Home Edition (Home Ed is proven simple and functional), then the Video Application software. So, what I thought was going to be a media (video/audio/photo) friendly machine turns out to be a machine targeted by HP to deliver all kinds of UNWANTED media and support services (even MS Windows Updates would come throught HP) and another level of unwanted/merited complexity. This clearly interferes with my productivity with a computer. Background internet operations bother me too ... I don't know what they are doing (i.e., taking inventories of what's on my machine and spying for marketing $$$). And any machine that has to be in the shop all the time is a LEMON! I remember when HP sold a superb product ... not NOW!

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    Behind the scenes at Alienware[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
    by tjn006 on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 07:59:38 AM PDT

    My guess at the explanation of this behavior is financial.  I think Alienware intended to honor their high levels of commitment to their customers but they greatly underestimated the cost of a poorly designed PC.  There are probably a lot of frustrated customers out there who are in the same boat and the sheer volume is making the whole warranty program a big money pit.

    So what do they do?  Tick off some existing customers who may buy in the future or sell PCs to new customers and try to stay profitable?  With the PC market's profit margins being so thin, there is no room for error.

    I remember different auto warranty programs for preventing rust.  A lot of companies died because they underestimated the cost of handling all the requests for rust compensation.

    Tom Nesler


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    The costs of warranties[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
    by cemkaner on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 03:24:21 PM PDT

    Tom Nesler suggested that Alienware's problem might be that their warranty costs are higher than they anticipated, and so they find themselves in an uncomfortable financial situation.

    I've seen companies in tight situations, trying to deal with unhappy customers when the best solution isn't financially possible. Acting as ethically as possible in these circumstances can be very difficult.

    I'm not convinced this is Alienware's situation. There are complaints on the web not so different from mine dating back several years.

    The other puzzle has to do with the time Alienware was willing to spend with me on the phone (hours and hours) compared to their complete unwillingness to provide onsite support. I wonder whether their approach, in my case, wasn't more costly for them than an onsite visit.

    I could be mistaken, but I feel as though I'm dealing with a nonresponsive policy and an irresponsible attitude, rather than with an immediate-term crisis.

    I've never created a consumer-protest website before. I've pushed back on companies before, but not very often on my own behalf. I usually have better things to do with my time. It took a lot to make me decide to push back on Alienware and, at several points, Alienware could have defused this.

    Recently, Alienware gave me a full refund. And the Alienware-focused extensions to my consumer protection site, http://www.badsoftware.com/alienwaresucks may help many more of their customers negotiate with them or organize a class action lawsuit against them. These might become much more expensive than any level of warranty savings they could achieve.

    -- Cem Kaner

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    Valuable insights on Alienware[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
    by tjn006 on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 01:40:46 PM PDT

    Thanks Cem for replying to my hypothesis that Alienware overestimated on the cost of support.  Your evidence that this is not a new problem would indicate that Alienware is not serious about warranty issues and uses their warranties as a marketing tactic they hope no one will ever try to use rather than a realistic program that genuinely supports the customer.

    The sad situation is that without a site like yours, many other consumers will be duped into thinking that the money they spend on warranties are buying them peace of mind rather than a fig leaf.

    It would make more sense to outsource warranty work to a third party who's reputation for quality is more directly tied to how well it does the warranty repairs.  Unfortunately, the vendor still holds the upper hand because the third party that does the work would still have to rely on them for bug fixes and parts, etc.

    Tom Nesler


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    Once Burned. . .[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
    by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 08:22:15 AM PDT

    I bought my most recent PC from Alienware, due mostly to their reputation. When the machine arrived, the bezel around the floppy drive was faulty. The tabs that should hold it in place were both broken off, so the bezel falls out frequently. I called, thinking they would ship me a replacement. Nope. They flat-out refused to honor the warranty. The tech suggested I visit a local PC shop and buy one. The funny part is that a short while later, I got a marketing email offering me the chance to extend my warranty. I replied that as they refused to honor the warranty anyway, I saw no reason to pay to extend it. No more Alienware for me. RA in Houston

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    On-Site Support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
    by glenn354 on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 01:20:19 PM PDT

    I read Kaner's entire post on his site. Alienware suggested that since they did not know exactly what was failing, their on-site technician wasn't skilled enough to repair on-site. However, they were happy to ship Kaner hardware and have him and his wife install it over the phone. In other words, they assumed Kaner was smarter and more capable than their on-site technician.

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    They were almost certainly right[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 03:08:43 PM PDT

    I read Kaner's entire post on his site. Alienware suggested that since they did not know exactly what was failing, their on-site technician wasn't skilled enough to repair on-site. However, they were happy to ship Kaner hardware and have him and his wife install it over the phone. In other words, they assumed Kaner was smarter and more capable than their on-site technician.
    Let's face it: Alienware, and Dell, and Gateway, and everyone else with so-called On Site Support contracts simply contracts with one of the national companies that in turn contracts with anyone they can find in each metropolitan area, to send some warm body out to work on the customer's system. That is why the procedure is ALWAYS to wade through a (often useless) script to decide WHICH PART TO REPLACE, then they just ship the part out to some guy who is supposed to know enough about a PC to be able to open the case, unscrew a few screws, maybe unplug a couple of cables, swap a part, and stuff it all back together. "On-Site Support" NEVER gets you on-site troubleshooting (which is what most of us really would need it for). Alienware CORRECTLY realized that they did not have anyone on contract capable of fixing the machine. The ethical (and possibly legal) questions are related to how they decided to handle that problem. The ethical response would have been to ship out a replacement computer and have him ship the defective one back. Given Alienware's profit margin that would not have been any real loss for them.

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    They were almost certainly right[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
    by cemkaner on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 10:42:35 PM PDT

    If the only time that they refused onsite service was the last one, I would have sent back the computer for troubleshooting without complaint.

    But that's not how it happened.

    They called me to install a board. They believed they had correctly diagnosed a problem and wanted me to install the hardware and reinstall the software. THIS is a classic onsite support call, but they were unwilling to provide the onsite support.

    The next time we opened the case (I haven't gotten there in the blog) was to pull the defective controller card, pull the Matrox card, and reinstall the operating system. This is another simple onsite support visit. They refused so to get the computer working again, I had to contract with an independent technician.

    In both of these cases, Alienware could have used GE service (or whoever they use) without any special problems.

    But that assumes something that is not correct. It is true that the normal way that companies provide support is to send a third-party technician. But this isn't the only way. When I worked in product develpment in Sili Valley, sometimes I got sent on tough service calls. Sometimes 2nd-level techs came to us, with extra diagnostic hardware and software in tow. Unlike the times I had to fly from Santa Clara to Boston, this would have been a short drive (Miami to Melbourne, Florida) so they wouldn't even have had to pack carefully for the plane.

    I'm not saying that this personal service call is what Alienware SHOULD have done. I'm saying that Alienware COULD have done it, other companies HAVE done it, and so it doesn't pay to assume that the company CANNOT do it, especially a company that charges top dollar and promises onsite support "if at all possible".

    My experience with Dell and Fujitsu (and others) is that they would have probably swapped out the computer. Other companies would have tried several onsite support visits. Alienware didn't even try it once, refused it every time, even when it looked straightforward.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    Ha Ha[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 03:05:51 PM PDT

    As Nelson on the Simpson's would say "Ha Ha".

    How many local computer shops and neighborhood VAR's did you walk by to purchase your big shiny "name brand" computer.

    Any (ANY) local computer shop worth their salt can build a computer as good (if not better) for a fraction of the cost of the name brand systems and since they're local, you can bet you will get better service (and if you don't - just like the bad tire tv commercial - you chuck the whole damn thing thru their front window).

    In the biz, we have a name for customers like you (i.e. the ones that shop via computer magazine reviews), we call them "suckers".

    [ Reply to This ]



    Buying locally[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
    by cemkaner on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 10:54:06 PM PDT

    I prefer buying locally. Over the past 3 years, I've bought 3 Apples and 2 Toshibas from local stores, with local service. I checked with several local stores before ordering from Alienware. The challenge was finding someone who knew a lot about video production.

    The Matrox video coprocessor cards add a lot of performance -- when they're installed and configured correctly. My video production jobs were taking 10 hours of computer time -- performance improvements are a big deal with jobs this intense.

    But even though there are many very satisfied Matrox customers, there are also people having a lot of trouble. It seemed very important to deal with someone who had a lot of experience setting up and supporting systems with this hardware.

    I didn't find that locally (Melbourne is not a large city) and Alienware had both a reputation for experience in the field and heavily-featured systems that were configured with Matrox cards as standard equipment.

    As it turned out, many of the problems I had look a lot like this-is-a-bad-configuration-for-Matrox problems -- exactly what I thought I was avoiding by buying from Alienware INSTEAD of buying locally.

    Buying from Alienware was a mistake in this case, but I didn't see a good local alternative. -- cem kaner

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    Buying locally[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
    by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 07:03:31 AM PDT

    That is funny. Depending where you live, you may not have that option. I much prefer to buy locally but the only "local" stores that sell computers are Walmart, Best Buy, etc. The local repair store used to sell custom computers but they quit the computer biz 2 years ago. Now there is one place about 5 miles from me that sells computers but only through Internet. As I recall, they do not do service. As I remember, they "shipped" the computer to me. (So, I am not sure if that really counts as local or not.)

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    White box stores[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:52:22 AM PDT

    About six years ago, I bought a computer from a local white box store. Several friends had purchased from them in the proceeding six months and were highly enthused about the results.

    Well, not only did they screw up the computer, but it took about five times of going through wipe/reinstall routines to for me to realize that they were installing Zip disk drivers on a Win98SE box - which did not need the drivers. Once I saw this and convinced them to stop installing the drivers, the computer purred.

    After that, I started building my own computers. I realize this is not an option for everyone, but at least if it is totally screwed up, I know who to blame and who will fix it. ;-)

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Why I don't do local now.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
    by foxyshadis1 on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:06:48 PM PDT

    Almost all of our local white box stores are gone. (Misnomer, too - most of them built great looking machines.) That's why I would hesitate even if I would get one from them; if they fold in 6 or 12 months because they couldn't take the heat from best buy, who's going to pick up the service?

    Fortunately the best one here contracted with a company out of town to provide some service to machines, although it wasn't nearly up to the level of before. Others just disappeared, one with a lot of clients' money, hardware, and data. But I heard the owner of that place was cooking the books for a long time.

    Making them from scratch is a frustrating endeavor sometimes, and not worth the money savings with the time it takes. I guess it's just not a winning situation right now.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]



    llllll[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#197)
    by Anonymous User on Sat Nov 18, 2006 at 05:56:20 AM PDT

    lllllll

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    Building your own[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
    by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:25:16 PM PDT

    I agree with you on this issue. I haven't purchased a desktop since my very first IBM-compat, a screamin' (for back then) 12 MHz AT 286 from Zeos, with an amber monochrome screen, 512k of RAM and a h-u-g-e 32 MB HD (which, of course, was actually an RLLed 20 MB). Back then, there was no built-in MS tax; you had to pay extra to get DOS 3.3 shipped with it. As time went on, I upgraded and upgraded that machine (Zeos built 'em like tanks, fine machines) with motherboards, memory, drives, etc., in the process learning a hell of a lot about the internals of a PC and what to do when the feces hits the ventilator.

    Two weeks ago BadBoy, the machine I built almost four years ago, bit the dust. Given that the technology was dated by now I decided after a bit of unsuccessful troubleshooting that it was time to write the old boy off. The drives were still good, having been themselves upgraded within the last year, so I shopped around, went to Microcenter and bought the parts, and put myself together a new screamer, BadBoy II. (Hey, ya gotta give 'em a name so they show up on the network, eh.) Now I've got a hot machine, with current SOTA technology, and with ALL the documentation for every critical component in my hands. She's humming quietly along right now (the Antec case I bought has a super quiet 120 mm main chassis fan with two 80 mm auxiliaries), more than twice as fast as BadBoy, and like you said, if something goes awry, I know where my tech support is going to come from, and that it's capable of handling the job.

    Although I do empathize with Cem for all the hassle he's been through, I also must note that it does seem that he has had no problem since his troubles in finding information about Alienware's pisspoor service. Perhaps a little extra pre-purchase time spent looking for that kind of information might have saved him that hassle. The time he might have spent researching MBs, processors, drives, etc. and then building his own (or maybe even paying some hotshot student to do so) would have probably been significantly less than the dozens of hours and emotional crapshoot he's been through dealing with this "reputable" manufacturer.

    [ Parent | Reply to This ]


    On-Site Service w/IBM[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
    by Anonymous User on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 03:58:34 PM PDT

    A few years ago I purchased the sweetest looking PC on the market: An IBM Netvista X40. It had a flat screen with the motherboard tight behind the monitor. Local tv stations still use a photo of this pc when talking about technical issues. It arrived DOA. IBM knew what the problem was and offered me the choice of having it repaired or returning it. The model was hard to come by so I opted for on-site repair. The technician came out the next day with parts in hand but didn't know how to open the case. If I'd been onsite I would have opened the book and pointed to the instructions. As it was, IBM had to send someone else several da