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Gateway Won't Honor Its Published Specs

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 12:41:26 AM PDT

Many things have changed for Gateway -- most of it for the worse -- since its mega-growth days that led to the much lamented Hill v. Gateway case. One thing apparently remains the same, though. The company still feels it has the right to shortchange customers on its published specs just by throwing a few weasel words into a document interested buyers are unlikely to see.


A few months after purchasing a Gateway 7215GX laptop through BestBuy.com, a reader decided to add memory to the system up to the 1,256 MB maximum the specs said it could take. "After the first 1-GB stick I bought only maxed out to 768 MB, I called Gateway's technical support who during the call told me my machine actually had a lower capacity," the reader wrote. "I, shocked, directed her to the page for my laptop on Gateway's own site and showed her the listed specification. After putting me on hold for thirty minutes, she came back and retracted her statement. I was slightly suspicious but still hopeful, so I sold the first stick at a loss and bought another brand's stick which, lo and behold, also maxed out to only 768 MB."

The reader searched far and wide for information about the problem he was having with his laptop, but what he discovered was not good news. "I informally found out on a forum from a person who claimed to work for Gateway that my 7215GX actually only had a capacity of 768 MB and that Gateway's site cannot be trusted," he wrote. "Not a completely reliable source, but I definitely became apprehensive. I decided to give it one more go and bought a stick identical to one Gateway sold on their own site. No longer shockingly, this stick also only maxed out to 768 MB. I called tech support a fourth time and finally got confirmation of the undeniable truth: my 7215GX only has the max RAM capacity of 768 MB, not the 1256MB listed on their site and the figure I was under the impression of when I purchased the laptop."

While the difference between a maximum capacity of 768 and 1,256 megs might not be a big deal to some, it was one of the factors the reader had considered in purchasing the system. "Now to a layman this difference might not seem much, but to a person who is at least moderately interested in computers, total RAM capacity is just as important as the total RAM included or any other spec, if not more," the reader wrote. "Besides that point, I was deceived and lied to about my product and there was no way I could have gotten the truth until after I bought the thing and went through the obstacle course of tech support. Basically, anywhere you search for the 7215GX on Google or Yahoo, you will find it listed to have a capacity of at least 1.2GB. There does not seem to be any site, at least that a consumer has access to, that says otherwise. It's also what they said on BestBuy.com when I bought it, although they have stopped carrying the product so, unfortunately, they have taken that page down."

After a number of futile attempts to deal with Gateway and Best Buy, the reader was finally directed to Gateway's corporate offices. "After speaking to various people there over the course of two weeks, they established that they were not going to take any action whatsoever," the reader wrote. "They would not even change the wrong specification on their site. They are going to continue deceiving customers about this product and who knows what else! All they would do is cite some fine print on their website that they say 'protects' them, like a duped customer is some sort of evil burglar trying to take their gold."

The fine print that Gateway officials claimed protected them was a footnote on the Gateway support page, text that a prospective customer was very unlikely to see. It reads:

This table provides minimum specifications. Actual specifications may vary according to the component options you selected. Specifications are subject to change regularly without notice or obligation. Components in the computer may have more than one supplier and may be custom engineered to Gateway specifications, which can vary from retail.

When the reader filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, Gateway responded by citing the same footnote. Since the reader had bought a retail unit, Gateway said that it can "per the disclaimer" vary the specifications as it chooses. When the reader retorted that this means Gateway could substitute cheaper components at will -- put a 1.5 GHz processor in a system that's advertised as being 2.2 GHz, for example -- Gateway didn't argue with him. That's their position, they said, and they're sticking to it.

Which I suppose should not be a surprise, given that was the Gateway philosophy a decade ago that led to the Hill case. With all the changes and problems it's suffered since, you'd think that's an attitude the company might have lost along the way, but apparently not. And I'd suggest it perhaps reflects a way of thinking about customers that is part of the reason for the diminished position Gateway now finds itself in.

< NewEgg Rebate is Not All It's Cracked Up To Be | A Very Fishy License Agreement >


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Gateway Won't Honor Its Published Specs | 114 comments (114 topical) | Post A Comment
Dispute[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 01:50:08 AM PDT

If the original purchaser who bought the unit from bestbuy.com used a credit card, file a dispute against bestbuy ASAP. It should be pretty easy to win that, since you have some evidence the product does not meet its published specification.

[ Reply to This ]


Question[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Jarulf on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 03:34:54 AM PDT

>It should be pretty easy to win that, since you
>have some evidence the product does not meet its
>published specification.

Excuse me for asking as a non american but is that all a consumer can do? Is there really no or so bad consumer sales laws that it is allowed to seel consumers products that does not fulfill criterias specified prior or during the sale? Can any such information simply be overruled by in addition just saying "what I told might not be true, what we sell might be something completely different, you have no idea"??

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



correction[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Jarulf on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 03:36:07 AM PDT

Bah, seel = sell. Sorry about that.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Not really[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 05:01:42 AM PDT

... the Corporate States of America is no longer by, of, and for the people, it hasn't been for years. Corporate greed is the only Master congress and the president bow to...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Depends....[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by MorrisNTex on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 02:14:30 PM PDT

Depends on how good a lawyer you can afford.
And how much time you have to spare. Something this small would probably go to "small claims court" and you wouldn't most likely need a lawyer there. And... unless you could find a lawyer that would care to take it on as a civil suite or enough disgruntled customers with similar problems to escalate it up to a class actions lawsuite.
Generally though the odds are stacked so bad against you it is not worth the effort.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Don't give up so easily[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 02:26:36 PM PDT

Actually, small claims court is a great way to go...You wouldn't need a lawyer, and it would probably be too small an amount of $ for Gateway to contest it. Another option would be to get a lwayer interested in a class action suit.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


corporation,s[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#60)
by wawadave on Fri Jun 17, 2005 at 12:49:53 PM PDT

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unfair trade - where to file your complaint[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 08:20:29 PM PDT

Yes, there is something else people can do. In fact, it applies not just to this problem, but also to the rebate issue which has become so prevalent. You see, there is an agency of the Federal government whose specific mission is to seek out and enforce existing misrepresentation laws. They just seem to have become very lax in recent (aheam) history. Anyhow, that organization is the Federal Trade Commision. http://www.ftc.gov/ftc/consumer.htm http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/rebatealrt.htm I think maybe the 'powers that be' would like to phase out this department as unnecessary tax spending. But they still have a web site and on-line forms where you post complaints about matters just like this one. This is false advertising plain and simple. The little tiny disclaimers that you (latter) found do not matter. You cannot print in large font one specification and disclaim that spec in hidden, unreadable, legaleese elsewhere. It is illegal and has been ruled on before. DOCUMENT IT BEFORE THEY CHANGE THE WEB SITE. I do not believe that you can file a small claims court case again a external company (is Gateway even be US incorporated?). But you could go after the retailer, if they refused to accept the return during the term period. Lastly, if you can't get any help or involvement from the FTC, many states do have active enforcement on these matters. So you can always contact your AG's office and ask them if they have a advertising or trade enforcement division. Could be even a weights and measure state issue, perhaps?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


unfair trade - other sources of help[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#55)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 17, 2005 at 09:39:30 AM PDT

I filed a complaint with the FTC recently, and not only exchanged emails with a Real Live Agent, but he called me at his expense when the issue was resolved. Friendly, knowledable guy, excellent service, problem resolved.

Don't be limited to the FTC, though. I've had excellent results talking to my congressman (Joe Barton in my case) on two occasions, and to my state representative for one state matter. They are highly motivated to Keep the Voters Happy, and their aides seem to get results very quickly.

At least in Texas. :-)



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Small Claims Court[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#71)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 05:01:20 PM PDT

This a GREAT way to go, and here's why: First of all, your local SCC does indeed have jurisdiction. You bought the computer there, they have sufficient contacts with your state to expect to be subject to that stat'e jurisdiction, and you can indeed sue them in SCC. Just be sure to name both the local retailer and Gateway as jointly and severally liable. If they fail to answer your suit, they default regardless of whether Best Buy responds. Best Buy cannot represent them in court because that would be acting as their attorney, and we all know attorneys are not allowed in SCC. Joint and several liability means also that Best Buy would be liable for the full amount if you can't collect from Gateway. Second, they will certainly respond, because if they didn't, word would get around and every person in every state that had any problem with their products would sue them in SCC and get a default. The US Constitution's Full Faith & Credit Clause requires that a judgment you obtain in one state must be honored in whatever state Gateway's resources are located in. If a lot of these started racking up, some smart lawyer/collection agency would buy them up and take them en masse to Gateway's bank to collect. Upshot: you want to get their attention, go to SCC.

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But it doesn't meet the "minimum"[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 07:19:46 AM PDT

"This table provides minimum specifications. Actual specifications may vary according to the component options you selected. Specifications are subject to change regularly without notice or obligation. Components in the computer may have more than one supplier and may be custom engineered to Gateway specifications, which can vary from retail."

Seems to me that the computer fails to meet the "minumum specifications" in Gateway's fineprint. I think this is actually evidence that works *against* Gateway - not in their favor. I don't have a problem with them substituting components as long as the new components are equal or better than what they promised. This is clearly not the case and I don't see how the BBB can view it any other way.

BTW I have bought several computers from Gateway over the years and thought that their support was very good. 1 machine from the mid 90's had a flaky CD-ROM drive that they replaced free, with better a better drive (I think they replaced a Wernes 6X with a Toshiba 12X - those were the days ;>), even after the warranty had expired.

I've since switched to white boxes because it takes me a lot less time to install an OS from scratch than it does to remove all the junk that comes bundled from the Dells and Gateways of the world.



[ Reply to This ]


BBB is not a consumer protection organization[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 05:31:02 PM PDT

... Although it used to ostensibly exist to help weed out the bad actors in the business world, the BBB is more of a protection racket for businesses than anything else. A business has to be really awful to get a bad rating from that organization, and even then if they are a member, they will just dismiss complaints as "unimportant" or "resolved". Check out gateway's record.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


This is the heart of the small print[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 15, 2005 at 01:50:16 PM PDT

When they state that these are the MINIMUM specs, they cannot in the next sentences negate that and say that they can replace the specs with any lesser thing they want.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Gateway[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 08:35:49 AM PDT

Has been a second tier player as long as they have been around. They sold computers using hype that often wasn't met when the item was actually delivered. It is NO suprise that they take the attitude customer be damned.. they've been damning us since the company was started.

[ Reply to This ]


Gateway[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 11:01:34 AM PDT

At the very least file a complaint with your states attorney general against both Best Buy if they will not take the computer back and Gateway.

[ Reply to This ]


Gateway's Bad Behavior Punished[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 12:38:55 PM PDT

Gateway sells crap and treats its customers like crap. They have done so for years. Gateway deserves to die as a company.

[ Reply to This ]


"Roll Your Own"...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by ergo on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 12:46:26 PM PDT

... the song goes. Find a local clone builder or buy a barebones system and do-it-yourself. (It's no longer rocket science.) And be sure to take advantage of the open-source operating systems available.

[ Reply to This ]


This was a laptop[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 15, 2005 at 09:24:46 AM PDT

How do you build a clone laptop?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


This is a laptop[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 15, 2005 at 01:15:14 PM PDT

There are a number of so-called "white box" laptops on the market. The system builder just provides the CPU, memory and hard disk.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Vote with Your Bucks, I Sure Will[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 01:00:02 PM PDT

I'm glad you posted this info. I've had three Gateway laptops, and we're looking to buy two more. Looks like we're going to have to look a bit closer somewhere else. __Birmbear

[ Reply to This ]


be sure to look at earlier article[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by MorrisNTex on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 02:20:12 PM PDT

Go back to an article from about the first of the year about HP's attitude. They are also having problems.
No manufacturer is perfect of course, but there are several that do treat the customer with respect and care about the quality of their product.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


File in small claims court[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by sandygettings on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 01:04:36 PM PDT

The idea to file a dispute with your credit card company was very good - try it and see if that works. If not, the BBB and other consumer organizations are toothless and, IMHO, useless.

Call your local county courthouse (or visit their web site) and try filing in small claims. Gateway will have to hire a local lawyer (expensive) to defend their side. The lawyer will know that if you stick to your guns you have a fair chance of winning. They will probably offer you a compromise. They know that the cost of their local attorney will quickly exceed the cost of your suit and they will make a settlement for purely practical reasons, regardless of who they feel is right or wrong.

Small claims is a great resource for underdogs who have been stepped on by a corporation. I've had to resort to small claims several times and I've always thought the result was fair.

[ Reply to This ]



Had A Similar Problem[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by BobS on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 01:09:03 PM PDT

I guess that disclaimer would apply to me also since I bought my system from Office Depot and not direct from Gateway. Fortunately Office Depot gave me exceptional customer service by taking the system back without any hassle whatsoever.

The gruesome details:

I bought a Gateway computer at Office Depot. It came with XP Home edition so I also bought an XP Pro upgrade (I did check with the Office Depot techie to make sure there was nothing about the system that would preclude the upgrade and was assured that there was not).

Got the system back to my office set it up and did the XP Pro upgrade. Half way through the system went into an infinite loop of re-boots.

Called Gateway tech support.

First question was: what is the serial number.

I gave him the serial number.

He responded that it was not a valid serial number and asked where I found it.

I told him it was printed on the front of the computer.

He asked me to read the serial number from the back of the computer.

I did.

He told me, that that was the same serial number that I gave him before (what can I say -- the serial number on the front of the computer matched the serial number on the back!)

He then asked me for my customer number.

I asked him where do I find my customer number.

He replied that every Gateway computer sold by Office Depot should assign a Gateway customer number on the sales receipt.

I read him every number on the sales receipt and he informed me that none of the numbers was a valid customer number.

He then informed me that since I didn't have a valid serial number or a valid customer number he couldn't talk to me.

I asked what to do about the warranty on a Gateway system that was just purchased less than an hour ago and was right out of the box.

He suggested I return it to Office Depot.

I did (and bought a Dell instead -- which is working fine by the way).

[ Reply to This ]



Office Depot selling illegal Gateways?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 15, 2005 at 11:39:36 AM PDT

So is Office Depot selling illegal Gateway computers? Or is it the case that all Gateway computers are illegal? If they can't even get their serial numbers right, then warranty is definitely going to be an issue.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Looked Legal To Me[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
by BobS on Wed Jun 15, 2005 at 04:02:43 PM PDT

It sure looked like a legal Gateway computer to me. The serial number seemed like it was embossed on both the cover and the rear panel.

I suspect Gateway assigns special serial numbers to their large distributors, but didn't tell their tech support people about it?

By the way, Office Depot said they have no idea what Gateway was talking about when they told me I should have been assigned a Gateway customer number on the sales receipt.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



My Guess[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#50)
by sconeu on Thu Jun 16, 2005 at 07:52:27 AM PDT

The so-called "customer service" guy just wanted to blow you off and drink his coffee, and handing you a line about no-such-number was BS.

You should have asked for his supervisor.

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States of America.
[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Took It As An Omen of Future Support[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#52)
by BobS on Thu Jun 16, 2005 at 01:41:43 PM PDT

Actually I thought of that while the conversation was going on, but I took this whole incident as an indication of what dealing with Gateway support would be like in the future and decided the support guy's advise to return the computer was probably the best advise I could have received.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


There are two different types of systems[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#69)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:38:04 PM PDT

Gateway has two types of systems: 1) Direct Market - purchased directly from Gateway 2) Retail Market - purchased outside of Gateway Direct market systems have a numeric serial number. Retail market systems have an alpha-numeric serial number. The Direct and Retail market support numbers are not the same. As such, the rep may have been new and was not aware of this matter. Direct -- 1.408.273.0800 Retail -- 1.408.273.0808 This applies for systems sold _AFTER_ 01/01/2005 There is the GPA Warranty upgrade -- gives you a 1.888# to call, NBD on replacement parts and <30s hold times before you talk to a rep.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Futility[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Deej on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 01:15:33 PM PDT

There is only one sure recourse (not for this "customer" but for future ones) - pass this story around. Word-of-mouth is almost always a factor in choosing technology solutions. If every "geek" says no to Gateway (and how many times are we asked what PC to buy by both corporate and private types?) we can all sit back and watch Gateway die a well-deserved death.

[ Reply to This ]


Contest the charge![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by LasVegan on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 01:41:09 PM PDT

The provided item doesn't meet the specs. It seems to me (I am *NOT* a lawyer) that that disclaimer means they can provide something superior to the specs, not that they can provide something inferior to them.

[ Reply to This ]


Gateway[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 01:52:16 PM PDT

Thanks for publishing this. I'm in the market for a new laptop, because my ancient Presario developed modem problems after a lightning strike; but the replacement won't be a Gateway.

[ Reply to This ]


Gateway non-support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 02:24:47 PM PDT

No surprises here. I struck Gateway from our list of "authorized suppliers" after similar problems nearly a decade ago. It seems that's the common experience of many of G'way's customers and goes a long way towards explaining the company's race to the bottom.

[ Reply to This ]


Great weasel words![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 02:32:16 PM PDT

"Actual specifications may vary according to the component options you selected. Specifications are subject to change regularly without notice or obligation." You couldn't build yourself a bigger loophole than that! What it really says is: "what you bought is all you're getting, regardless of what we told you the box contained, and no, you can't open the box and look at it before you buy it." I quit dealing years ago with Gateway because NONE of their components can be replaced off the shelf, and they just discontinue making replacement parts when they decide it's time for you to quit trying to upgrade and replace the whole machine!

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Re: MY DAUGHTERS DRESS[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#286)
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