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Terms of Deception

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon May 09, 2005 at 12:30:24 AM PDT

As we know all too well, nasty sneakwrap terms can lurk in the most unexpected of places. But when the vendor has already demonstrated an inclination to deceive, it's best to expect the worst.


Several of my readers are big fans of Small Business Server consultant Susan Bradley's weblog on SBS and related issues. "She has really produced one of the most timely and informative blogs on the subject, and her prolific work has been a huge benefit for the SBS community," wrote one Bradley fan. "So I was exceedingly offended by the fact that someone was using a rather sleazy method of drawing business to his site based on her hard work and stellar reputation."

The reader was referring to a recent Bradley story in which she related her surprise at the results of a Google search on her own name. At the time, the search displayed a Google sponsored-link ad for "Hey Susan Bradley SBS Fan." The link in turn led to a "Small Business Computer Consulting" webpage with a picture of a smiling woman some might assume to be Bradley. But it wasn't, and in fact she had nothing to do with the site the Google ad linked to. While the Small Business consulting page did not make it clear, it was actually part of a computer consulting site run by a Joshua Feinberg.

Being a GripeLog devotee as well as a Susan Bradley fan, the reader decided to look for clues as to just what kind of operation Feinberg was running. "I mused that someone who would stoop to such unethical behavior might just have a few choice items posted on his website," the reader wrote. "Sure enough, Mr. Feinberg, the proprietor of ComputerConsulting101.com, did not disappoint me. Check out the link to his Terms of Service at the bottom of the page."

Feinberg's terms had many of the standard sneakwrap atrocities, such as his right to change the terms of the agreement at any time just by changing them on his website and overreaching claims that all submitted information becomes his property. Such stuff seems all the more sinister when you consider that some visitors could have filled out the web form with their name, e-mail address, etc. in the mistaken belief that they were dealing with Susan Bradley. But the terms that really caught the reader's eye and mine were these:

Payments and Fees
Credit cards that are declined for any reason are subject to a $1.00 declination fee. Accounts not paid by the due date are subject to a $7.95 late fee. Accounts that are not collectable by Computer Consulting 101 may be turned over to an outside collection agency for collection. If your account is turned over for collection, you agree to pay the company a "Processing and Collection" Fee of not less than $50 nor more than $150. If you desire to cancel your account, please follow the proper procedure as outlined on the product or service's main Web page.
Refund and Disputes.
If you dispute a charge to your credit card issuer that, in Computer Consulting 101's sole discretion is a valid charge under the provisions of the product guarantee, you agree to pay Computer Consulting 101 an "Administrative Fee" of not less than $50 and not more than $150. If you desire to return your product, you agree to follow the proper procedures described on the product's main Web page.

Even as outrageous sneakwrap terms go, that's pretty much over the top. "Just when you think it can't get any better, it does," wrote the reader. "You are deemed to agree to pay a disputed charge even if Feinberg alone determines that it is a valid charge? Forget about your determination or that of the credit card issuer. They don't mean a thing at this company. Talk about chutzpah!"

Of course, what makes these terms particularly bad is the possibility that the customer might have been deceived as to what they were buying and from whom they were buying it. It's bad enough when vendors use hidden "agreements" they know you won't read to try to impose one-sided and unfair terms on a deal. If you have to check the sneakwrap just to see who you're actually dealing with, even those deserving of your trust will be at constant risk of losing it.

< A MyFamily Tradition | Activation as a Business Decision >


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Terms of Deception | 22 comments (22 topical) | Post A Comment
Credit card processor[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by mhkohne on Mon May 09, 2005 at 11:05:38 AM PDT

Someone should probably have a word with this guy's credit card processor. No matter how many companies stand between this guy and Visa, I suspect that Visa (and Amex and Discover...) would not take kindly to a merchant who disputed their authority (which this fellow appears to be doing).

In fact, I suspect that if they knew about this, they might well cut him off - Visa is fairly controlling of merchant behaviour related to credit card transactions, and I can't imagine they'd be in favor of things like this - it sort of undercuts part of the reason people use credit cards in the first place! I don't know what the merchant agreement looks like, but I'd even go so far as to guess that this is already disallowed by his merchant agreement.

Anyone have time on their hands to help this fellow be more virtuous by discussing the matter with his processor?

Michael Kohne
[ Reply to This ]



Also check out the privacy policy[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by ekuns on Mon May 09, 2005 at 09:29:17 PM PDT

Also notice the following choice quote from this web site's privacy policy:

In addition, from time to time as we continue to develop our business, we may sell, buy, merge or partner with other companies or businesses. In such transactions, user information may be among the transferred assets.

Do you notice the hole in the privacy policy large enough to drive your privacy through? If this company partners with another company, they can transfer user information. Hmm. Also, what is the legal meaning of "sell, buy, merge, or partner with"? Does this mean that any company they sell with or buy with also has access to "user information"? I can imagine a sleazy company pushing that interpretation in court.



[ Reply to This ]


the beauty of this[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 10, 2005 at 09:34:13 AM PDT

is that search engines will pick it up and people will get to see what an ass this guy is.  Nothing like the power of Google.  Here's more for the search engine rankings:

Joshua Feinberg
http://www.smallbusinesscomputerconsulting.com/


[ Reply to This ]



Honest title[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 06:44:29 AM PDT

I clicked on that link, and the title on the Netscape tab said "Free Tips on Small Business Computer Cons..." LOL!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Federal Law[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 10, 2005 at 09:51:36 AM PDT

It's not just Amex, Visa, etc. that allow charges to be disputed--it's federal law. I doubt any provision on this site can override the feds or the merchant agreement, and anyone that complains to their card issuer should previal. As always, use Amex because of their pro-consumer policies (most online Amex merchants have to agree that any disputed charge is reversed). By the way, the best argument with dishonest sites is to say you never made the online charge.

[ Reply to This ]


more shenanigans[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 10, 2005 at 03:45:09 PM PDT

At the bottom of the first page, that web site states "We respect your e-mail privacy and promise to never share or rent your e-mail address to any unauthorized third party." So presumably they feel free to share and/or rent to ANY third party they decide to "authorize"! What a robust, bullet-proof privacy policy!

[ Reply to This ]


whinning[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by shamous on Tue May 10, 2005 at 04:28:51 PM PDT

While I can understand the "gripe" with the unethical ID theft of Susan Bradley's name, but I can't for any apparent reason understand the insessant whinning about aggreements or contracts. If you have the aggreement BEFORE you buy or sign up and failed to read the whole thing, or you are too lazy to find on the site or you just push "I agree" then I have little sympathy for you. I am a business person. I have written and signed many agreements. On each one I knew what I was signing and that was my responsiblity. Whether I liked the terms or not, if I wanted the product or service, TOO BAD. I had a choice, buy or not buy, obligate myself or don't. This is a no brainer. Personal responsibilty has been thrown out the @#$@#$ window. Grow up people. Consumers want a good deal, to beat the system, to have the upper hand just as much or more than the "big" corps. Consumers will cheat, lie, steal just like anyother entity. READ THE AGREEMENTS. BASED ON THAT, BUY OR DON'T BUY. SIMPLE.

[ Reply to This ]


misleading T&Cs[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by In my humble opinion on Tue May 10, 2005 at 05:13:45 PM PDT

I respectfully disagree. Terms and conditions that are contrary to Federal or State laws are misleading and deceptive. What is the intent of such terms and conditions? I can only assume that the person/company has intent to deceive their customers in order to profit from their actions.

Taken to the extreme, how would you like consumer products to have shrink-wrap agreements which overrule basic consumer protection legislation? I don't want to have to read the fine print of a toilet paper package, do you ?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



yep, that's whining.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 06:37:24 AM PDT

"I don't want to have to read the fine print of a toilet paper package, do you ?" - of course you don't, because that would require you to use your brain. If a company sold toilet paper that came with fine print, another company would come along and sell paper without fine print. That's the beauty of capitalism. If a smart consumer were required to read the fine print on a toilet paper package, he or she would opt to buy the paper that comes with no such requirement. It's pretty simple. Shamous is right - quit you're whining.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Ahh...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Jarulf on Wed May 11, 2005 at 12:00:04 PM PDT

That is why there are all those computer software out there WITHOUT Eulas!!!! The main point was though that many of those terms are in direct violation of the law.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


That's the beauty of capitalism?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by ekuns on Wed May 11, 2005 at 03:22:29 PM PDT

I'll skip over the "quit you're whining" typo, funny though it is (and as close to my pet peeve of "its" vs "it's" that so many people get wrong) to get to the meat of your arguement as I hear it. Your argument as I hear it is that as long as the terms are presented before the sale that it is pure "buyer beware" and the buyer is to be blamed for agreeing to bad terms if that happens.

I understand such logic, but I disagree with it when we are talking about the consumer market, the mass market. Free enterprise is a great thing, but if every possible purchase came with a EULA, one alternative is that commerce would grind to a halt while everyone took the time to read every agreement for every item they purchased -- and companies certainly change licenses periodically so you would have to read it at every purchase to make sure it had not changed. The other alternative is that consumers would widely disregard the licenses and get trapped by what terms were found to be legally enforcable.

I am the sort who reads the full text of just about every form I ever have to sign and any license I ever have to agree to. I will admit that I am doing this less often in the software world because there are simply so many licenses to read, and we're talking 5 to 30 minutes of reading per software install nowadays. I don't have that kind of time. The problem with software EULAs ... sorry, one problem with software EULAs, is this time factor. Each EULA for each release of each distinct software product is different. That means you have to read them all, or simply choose to not purchase software. We'll pretend for the sake of argument that you can always find the full EULAs before purchase or at least are presented with the full EULA at the time of install.

Remember that we are talking about the mass market here. There is no EULA to purchase a CD or a DVD. Not to purchase a toaster. Not to purchase a computer hardware component. Not to purchase a wide screen TV. Not to purchase clothing. Not to purchase a movie ticket or buy a book or borrow a book from a library. Not to purchase dinner at a restaurant or attend a concert or other performance. I could go on endlessly, so I won't.

Note that software EULAs are usually longer than the documents I had to read and sign to purchase my house and my car! (And in both of those circumstances, I was able to negotiate up front, I knew all of the terms before it came time to sign any papers, and so on.) Software EULAs are substantially longer than everything I had to sign to get any job I have ever had. They are longer than any lease I have ever signed. Oh, and again, for leases and jobs, there is at least some ability to see everything up front and to negotiate.

The thing about the mass market, you see, is that there is no negotiation. That fact is part of what makes EULAs so onerous. If the rest of mass commerce followed the example of computer software, we would spend all day reading license agreements and no time spending money. That is what you seem to not see. Imagine if for every transaction, you had to sign a license agreement. Say you buy a donut and the moment you first bite into the donut (and cannot return it) you are presented with a license agreement you are presumed to have agreed to by biting into it. (This is the case for the EULAs on any web site.)

Finally, you talk about how wonderful free enterprise is, that if people object to something, the market will replace it. Yes, that always happens, but not quickly. People have to object a lot and be inconvenienced a LOT before this will happen. It will always happen, in time. But your argument is made rather moot by the large amount -- wait, I mean nil amount -- of software available without a EULA. Free enterprise is not perfectly efficient. There is a delay time built in to consumer response. Information is not perfectly available (especially when the terms in a EULA prevent free speech).



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


There is a difference[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by ekuns on Tue May 10, 2005 at 06:24:29 PM PDT

The difference here is that as a business person, you have signed contracts where there was a "meeting of the minds" and you were able to negotiate. We are not talking about that market, here. We are talking about the consumer market where no such negotiation is possible. It is "take it or leave it" and that is your only choice. There is no meeting of the minds. There is no negotiation. Also, you do not always have the EULA beforehand, and you do not always even have the full EULA after the fact.

In addition, some companies try to bind you to terms where you have to agree to the terms to read the terms! (Such as companies that try to have a EULA for any use of their web site ... well, you have to use the web site to view their EULA, and that's if you are even made aware that it exists.)



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


another whiner[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 06:43:06 AM PDT

Let me get this straight: we're talking about the deceptive practices of some lowlife on the Internet. His tactics are indeed smarmy. But you're whining about not being able to negotiate any of the terms of his service??? THEN DON'T BUY IT!!! Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems to me that this guy isn't exactly offering the cure for cancer. There are a hundred providers of like services out there with acceptable terms. It's a free market society, buy somewhere else. What's the problem here?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


TERMS[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 06:34:48 AM PDT

Ridiculous - it should be apparent to readers by now that companies are using excessively long and, in some cases, illegal "agreements" to increase profits. Most of these practices are illegal in any other business. These are purposely deceptive and even illegal practices that average the average user should expect to be protected from. They are scams - "a rose by any other name". You wonder why piracy is an issue - look at corporate behavior, a great example

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


whinning[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 09:08:02 AM PDT

So you read the entire agreement. You have to make a yes/no decision because you cannot negotiate as with a "real" contract. You decide that the terms are not quite bad enough to say no. The next day after you agree, they change the terms online (which you are not aware of) to the effect that you owe them $1000 per day (or hour). That is fine with you because you agreed to the "contract".

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


come again?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 09:51:22 AM PDT

so, you agree to the term "we can change the terms at any time on our web site". The next day they change the terms on their web site, and you don't like that??? How dumb are you?

Whining, which is what you are doing, is spelled with one "n". Take some personal responsibility for your decisions, particularly those made based on terms you read in advance.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



How dumb are you????[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 10:58:34 AM PDT

I'm confused? You say we're whining? I thought this was "The GRIPE Log"?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


surely you'll grasp the difference[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 11:44:53 AM PDT

To gripe is to complain or object. To whine is to object or complain in a childish fashion.

As this is the GripeLog, we ask that you head over to the WhineLog to post your thoughts.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Thanks[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 12:00:52 PM PDT

Thanks. But no thanks. Think I'll stay here and whine just to heat up the subjects!

whine
verb whined, whining
intr
1. To whimper.
Thesaurus: sob, whimper, cry.
intr
2. To cry fretfully.
intr
3. To complain peevishly or querulously.
Thesaurus: complain, gripe, carp, grouse, grumble, moan, whimper, beef (slang), bellyache (slang), kvetch (US slang).
4. To speak in a thin, ingratiating or servile voice.
5. To say something peevishly.


[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Plagiarism[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 12:31:59 PM PDT

So where did this come from? Some credit, please.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Feinberg's 101 course is "doody"[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 10:34:08 AM PDT

I purchased his course a while back. He purports to enable any techie to establish themselves in small business computer consulting. The reality is that the market (at least my local market) is glutted with a ton of people trying to do exactly the same thing with the "we are your virtual IT department" schtick, and his "marketing advice" is extremely rudimentary baby steps in that direction. He hardly stratches the surface with respect to marketing, positioning your service, and practice management. It's a bunch of surface level generalities.

I think he and others like him pander to desperation. His course sounds too good to be true. IT IS. It is certainly not worth $397. The real consulting writers like Bob Bly, Ford Harding, Jerry Weinberg, and Herman Holtz provide much greater value for the cost of a few paperback books; and with some self-discipline one will learn FAR more than by listening to JF's poorly produced teleconferences.

I have absolutely no clue how he gets so many people to shill for him on his web site.

Pure hype. The usurious terms are typical.

[ Reply to This ]



More SPAM than a scam[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 13, 2005 at 04:56:56 AM PDT

I am delighted Grip Line highlighted Joshua Feinberg's ethics. I would call his actions SPAM more than a SCAM. He has registered dozens of domain names to point to his "Kit", purporting to bestow his immense wisdom upon aspiring consultants. As an independent consultant, I frequently ran across his spam, and had no trouble seeing it for what it was. Never for a moment did I consider buying a product from Feinberg. However, snake oil salesmen are everywhere, and some people are easily fooled. This is essentially another "get-rich quick" scheme, where the vehicle is computer consulting. I read somewhere that Feinberg was a former (maybe still practicing) Small Business Server consultant, so I am not surprised he hijacked a Google AdWords link for someone interested in her work. I bet a link "Hey Joshua Feinberg fan" would not get a single click. This guy can't rely on his own reputation so he tries to siphon someone else's. He's obviously not very busy as a consultant, since he has the time to set up this spam. I agree with other posters who say "outing" this guy on the web will help. Anyone doing the least bit of due diligance in a simple Google search will find more negative stuff on him than he can possibly counter with spam.

[ Reply to This ]


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