Ed Foster's Gripelog || A MyFamily Tradition

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A MyFamily Tradition

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Fri May 06, 2005 at 12:42:15 AM PDT

What two things do Ancestry.com, Genealogy.com, Family Tree Maker software and a number of other genealogy-related websites and products have in common? One is that they are all happy members of the same corporate family under "parent" company MyFamily.com Inc. The other is that they share a family trait of generating gripes from customers about sneaky credit card charges.

Last year I wrote about complaints I was hearing primarily about Ancestry.com's turning monthly subscriptions into automatically-renewing annual subscriptions. While Ancestry.com did subsequently clarify some of the more misleading promotional pages on its website, its "evergreen" terms and conditions remain the same, as apparently do at least some of its practices.

"I have just received my credit card statement with a charge of $99 for a subscription that I didn't order," wrote a reader who last ordered a Genealogy.com subscription over three years before. "I found a phone number this morning and called them. They said all subscriptions are renewable unless the customer called and cancelled." After she complained she was told the money, including an earlier charge from the year, will be refunded. "The phone number I called is 1 (800) 548-1806. Maybe you can post this in your website and hopefully it will help others."

Many continue to complain that the fourteen-day "free trial" seems to actually last about fourteen minutes. "I wish I'd read your article before signing up for the free trial offer," wrote one Ancestry.com customer. "It took me just one session to discover that their database didn't have the records for the families they claimed ... I immediately called to tell them I wanted to cancel. So sorry, wrong number -- I should check my sales receipt for the proper number to call. What sales receipt? This is supposed to be a free trial. By the time I was finally referred to the 'cancellation hotline,' they said I was too late so I might as well use it for the year."

Perhaps he was lucky - some customers have found that canceling means they lose both the subscription and the money. "I subscribed to Genealogy.com for one year a little over a year ago," wrote a reader who mistakenly thought she could just let her subscription expire. "So I was surprised when the charge for another year showed up on my credit card statement. Today I called because my credit card had not been credited yet and was informed that since I cancelled outside of the 'seven-day window' there was no credit. What a scam. I didn't know they were going to automatically charge my credit card for another year, so how could I have cancelled within the seven days? Also, when I called to cancel they did not tell me I wouldn't get a refund. If they had I would have cancelled at the end of the new subscription. As it is I don't have site access and I don't have my money."

Given how easily they turn into evergreen credit card charges, it would be wise to look all gift horses from MyFamily.com in the mouth. "The Family Tree Maker 2005 Collector's Edition includes one-year subscriptions to the U.S. Records and One World Tree collections," another reader noted. "I tried to access same and was prompted to give a credit card number to view them. There is no mention of the requirement on the packaging at the point of sale. Isn't this bait-and-switch?"

Maybe so, and one reader discovered some of the bait is just so much manure. "Before paying for a subscription, I decided to check for data on Ancestry.com's newspaper articles site," she wrote. "Several items appeared each time I entered various uncommon given names in my family. Realizing this was not probable, I decided to try entering (a word meaning canine excrement) as the surname. Sure enough, it brought up half a dozen newspaper articles it said referenced people by that name. I exited out of the website at that point, but not before I had typed in my personal info, so I'm still getting spam from them. Kind of scary."

< Reader Voices: Privacy Pessimism | Terms of Deception >

A MyFamily Tradition | 62 comments (62 topical) | Post A Comment

Credit Card usage for sites like this...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 06, 2005 at 05:07:56 AM PDT

Something I've noticed in other discussions in getting your credit card company to issue a "single-use" CC # linked to you existing card, that you can use and then toss out, thereby preventing these sorts of automatic renewals. Sounds like this is going to become a necessity for internet commerce soon...

[ Reply to This ]

About those "single use" CC numbers[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 06, 2005 at 03:25:51 PM PDT

I've seen complaints from a number of people over time on the newsgroup misc.consumer about "one time" CC #'s being used more than once. It seems to happen with a single vendor using a one-time #, and then using it again. For some reason, it seems that (at least) some banks will allow a vendor to make multiple charges on that single-use #.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

ee[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#191)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 07:00:15 AM PDT

single use credit card number[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 09, 2005 at 10:08:04 PM PDT

Solution is Simple: CARD READER WITH PIN PAD ( SENSITIVE INFORMATION IS ENCRYPTED WITHIN THE SECURE DEVICE) which creates a Card Present Transaction (CPT), combined with SINGLE USE CREDIT CARD NUMBER technology. 1. Eliminate credit or debit card number transmitted over the Internet. 2. Eliminates Keylogging. 3. Eliminates third party storage of your information. 4. Eliminate need to educate. Your Information never leave your person... Simple not complex.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

One-time use CC[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by weebles on Tue May 10, 2005 at 08:57:52 AM PDT

I can just imagine that if one-time use CC numbers get popular, so will T&Cs that say if you use one to deny an evergreen renewal, the vendor will turn you over to a collections agency.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Poor Customer Service from Ancestry.com[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#181)
by RobynB1201 on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 05:18:51 PM PDT

More than two years ago, I did sign on to this website and (naively) purchased a membership. I was not at all impressed, and did not access this site more than two or three times back in 2005. HOWEVER, what was not disclosed was the fact that Ancestry.com could--and would--retain my credit card information, and automatically rebill it literally years later. They did not attempt to communicate with me beforehand via regular or email, so when, in January 2008, $99.00 was billed to my Visa, it was a real blindside. Naturally, I phoned Bank of America to dispute, and they removed the charge from my card. Ancestry.com apparently protested, so my account was rebilled. I called Ancestry.com, and their response was very rude. The rep said, "Well, if you had called us first instead of your credit card company, maybe we would have worked with you. Now we will not refund your money." There was absolutely no interest at all in customer service or in leaving any sort of a favorable impression. Yes, the account is canceled now--or so I was told--but I'm still out almost $100 for nothing. I would never recommend this site to anyone, ever. VERY DISAPPOINTED with the "so-what" attitudes of the reps.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Credit Cards[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 06, 2005 at 09:34:28 AM PDT

First, as the previous poster noted. You need to only use one time numbers. Second, for those that cancelled and no longer have site access, they are due a refund. If the company has withdrawn the product it is a clear indication that they accepted the cancellation. At best they could prorate the refund for the remaining portion of next year. People need to dispute these charges. Most will find that on a dispute such as this the company will roll over. If not, it is the companies responsibility to provide evidence that you agreed to this charge. This means that they need to produce evidence that you have agreed to a formal contract and this charge. They would have to show records that proved that you were shown and agreed to the terms of service. This will surely cost them more than your subscription.

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Terms and Conditions are Clear[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 06, 2005 at 02:29:19 PM PDT

I haven't worked at Ancestry.com for some time now, but I think some of this is either innaccurate or unfair. Here is my reasoning:

The terms and conditions on the site are clear and must be agreed to before creating any account on their sites (evergreen as they may be).
The terms and agreement specify that the subscriptions are automatically renewing (and always has been).
There is never any reason to provide a credit card to a company unless they plan to bill you and you are thus planning to get billed. If you don't expect to be billed for something, why would you ever willingly give someone a credit card number?
Many people actually view automatic renewal as a service analagous to automatic bill paying. When I worked at Ancestry.com, we used to get calls all the time from people thinking their subscription was about to renew and to make sure we had the right information.
It is the responsibility of the buyer to keep their contact information current, so companies can notify him/her when a billing is going to occur. Unless their policies have changed, Ancestry.com still notifies all annual subscribers as a courtesy before billing a renewal.
Lack of use is seldom a reason for a refund, even if you've forgotten you were subscribed to a service for the last three years. Notable exceptions would be death and illness. I'd love the cable company to only bill me for the two hours each week I watch TV, but it doesn't work that way. Magazine companies don't make you read the publications they send to your home either (although they at least try to ensure delivery of the service). In almost all cases, you are charged some amount to have access to the service itself regardless of the usage. Ancestry.com, the cable company, most ISPs, etc. are actually "unlimited" subscriptions, since you don't have to pay based on how much you use (as you do for your phone).
Requiring a credit card is actually a SMART business hurdle, since it means (or should mean) people who sign up and provide billing information are serious in their intent to subscribe and not just looking for a free lunch. Some cost is incurred in creating and providing a service, so it makes sense to protect those assets from people who have no interest in ever becoming a customer.
Customers are usually in control of business relationships. In this case, Ancestry.com has consolidated the market; however, competition is sure to emerge if Ancestry.com doesn't take care of its customers. It doesn't take much time for a market leader to become less important or marginalized . . . just ask employees of Genealogy.com prior to their acquisition by Ancestry.com.

All that being said, people shouldn't have to spend two weeks trying to figure out how to cancel a service they don't want or need. The purpose of a free trial is to provide people the opportunity to try something new with no obligation. That means it shouldn't be impossible to cancel.

Additionally, people should be concerned about companies who don't stand behind their product enough to provide refunds or hide behind rigid policies to preserve a fistfull of subscription dollars.

The best suggestion I think I can make is to not go into any transaction with your eyes closed and without researching the details. Regardless of the motivation (to be misleading, get money from careless customers, etc.), few are the companies that have enough confidence in their products and services to say, "if you don't like our service, you can get a refund at any time" or "click here to unsubscribe."

I actually know of a company that let customers give themselves refunds . . . until they noticed that they had a hard time making any money. To be sure, there is a balance to strike on issues like this.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

one reason[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 07, 2005 at 08:56:12 AM PDT

""There is never any reason to provide a credit card to a company unless they plan to bill you and you are thus planning to get billed. If you don't expect to be billed for something, why would you ever willingly give someone a credit card number? ""

credit cards are used for age verification on adult web sites.
I have also worked on a stock photo website, where we required a credit card as a means of identity verification (we didn't bill the card, and it cost us about 30 cents to do it).

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Yeah, right[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 07, 2005 at 10:26:13 AM PDT

"credit cards are used for age verification on adult web sites." And if you trust such sites to use the card number only for age verification, well ... I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you...It's in Manhattan, too...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Indeed[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 07, 2005 at 10:35:28 AM PDT

I too find it a mite suspicious that of all the things they might pick for "age verification" they choose something that happens to also give access to your money. Besides, it just plain doesn't work as age verification. Everyone knows how common it is for kids to borrow daddy's credit card, as well as how common it is for bona fide adults not to have one. As age verification, credit card access is pants -- way too many false positives and false negatives. MyFamily's requirement that you give them a CC# for a "free" trial is totally gratuitous -- they don't even have the flimsy excuse of age verificiation being needed. They just want your money. It's greed -- pute and simple.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Chargeback - a last ditch measure[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 09, 2005 at 02:50:24 PM PDT

Credit card users have an extra level of protection they sometimes overlook: the chargeback. If you're charged for something you didn't order or that is unsatisfactory, you have the right to dispute the charge when your bill arrives. First, make a good faith attempt to correct the matter, save the documentation (notes about your phone calls, e-mails, etc.), and follow the directions on the back of your statement to place the item in dispute, making sure you send a snail-mail letter if needed. Respond to the paper work from the credit card company. It's a hassle, but it beats paying $99 for something you didn't want.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Ancestry Billing Renewal Notices...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 17, 2005 at 03:24:50 PM PDT

"Unless their policies have changed, Ancestry.com still notifies all annual subscribers as a courtesy before billing a renewal." I've subscribed to Ancestry many time since its inception, annually, quarterly and monthly. Though the sales staff will *tell* you that you will receive notification, I have *never* received one from Ancestry, though the have no problem sending me "special offers" using the same account. On top of that, these days they are nearly impossible to get ahold of on the telephone to cancel your account, and *they won't let you cancel other than by telephone*. This last time I finally gave up in disgust and sent a rather scathing e-mail to tech support, with notification that ANY reply I received from them would be posted to the web, and their reply implied permission. They finally cancelled - via e-mail.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Evergreen endowments[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#171)
by Anonymous User on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 08:41:47 PM PDT

A perpetual subscription is one that renews itself without you needing to take any action. They were designed to endow institutions with periodicals or services but have been put to use by profiteers like ancestry.com. Monthly, yearly and bi-yearly, as a person chooses are traditional subscriptions. You cannot cancel an Ancestry subscription online or by e-mail they require that you call in and verify that you are the subscriber not an heir or conservator. No no they couldn't make money from deceased or infirm people if they allowed that! Often they have been known to collect for years after the service was unable to be used. They even have the nerve to call it an "evergreen" policy like a perpetually endowed cemetery which leaves no doubt they intend to collect frm the dead.

With this perpetual subscription Ancestry is collecting a great deal of money indeed from institutionalized and deceased people who have not called to cancel. While the persons estate is in probate or their credit card is still in good standing Ancestry.com keeps collecting money. They have been sued for this rip-off but the subscriber agreed, and their policy is NO REFUNDS.

Should we honor our ancestors or rip them off? (rhetorical) Ancestry offers nothing that is not already available free elsewhere. The databases were done by other people not Ancestry who has tricked others into sharing research so they can sell it to others.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Check the Facts[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 06, 2005 at 05:55:19 PM PDT

WOW... a lot of fluff in that article, but how many facts? So I went over to the Ancestry.com website and checked a few items out.

1) The 14 day free trial signup clearly says in the right column that you must CALL to cancel your account:

You may cancel your reserved subscription at any time during the trial period by calling 1-800-262-3787 (press prompt #4). Member service is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Phone number and all! Ok... but what if I rush through the signup and don't record the phone number (sounds like something I'd do?) Where do I go to get help on Ancestry??? Oh yeah... click on the link in the upper right hand corner that says "help?" !!! I type in my question under the "Ask Ancestry" tab... "Cancel Free Trial"

Yep... first answer is exactly what I'm looking for:

How do I cancel my free trial subscription?
To better ensure your credit card privacy, we ask that you call Ancestry.com toll free at 1-800-262-3787 to cancel your subscription. Simply select option #4 at the teleprompt to speak to an Account Services representative who can cancel your account and will give you a confirmation number verifying the cancellation. You will need to contact our office no later than the last day of your trial should you wish to cancel. Account Services is available 24 hours a day and 7 days a week.

That simple... so what is all the huff all about???

[ Reply to This ]

It's a scam ...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 06, 2005 at 06:30:28 PM PDT

All the huff is because there is a reason that a web-only service will let you do anything and everything via the web, except cancel. They make a lot of money by scamming your grandparents who don't catch on to the fine print that you've so perceptively noticed. The people at Ancestry are sharks. If you send an email asking them to cancel, in the amount of time that it would take them to cancel, they'll send you an email back saying you can't cancel by email. They're cheats. They do this to create delay and extend the window so you can no longer cancel. You chumps can continue to try to defend this despicable company, but some of us will assume you work for them and must be part and parcel of the whole scam.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Common Practice[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 07, 2005 at 06:39:40 AM PDT

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. Automatically renewing subscriptions are the common and accepted practice these days. My son subscribes to Disney's Toon Town service, and it automatically renews every month. Whenever I sign up for a free trial with any company, and I've done this a number of times, I always record the date of signup and put on my calendar when I need to make the decision to cancel or keep the service. I subscribed to AOL at one point, and that was even more difficult to cancel. Auto renewing subscriptions is a service, not a scam. I wouldn't want to have to go to the trouble to renew a subscription every time it expires. If a service is a useful service, and I believe that Ancestry.com *is* useful, then I like the convenience of having it automatically renew. People seem to expect that every thing on the Internet should be free. Well guess what? There aint no such thing as a free lunch. MyFamily puts a lot of time, effort, and expense into digitizing data to make it easier to research. Aren't they entitled to see some compensation for their investment? When I started in genealogy, the ony way to get records was to go down to the archives and pore over hard to read microfilm, and if you wanted something out of state you had to have enough information that you could write a letter and request the records. In the U.S., as well as in other places, our entire economy is based on the principle that people and companies are entitled to profit by their efforts. So why should the Internet be any different?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Commen Practice[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 07, 2005 at 09:38:04 AM PDT

"People expect everything on the internet to be free" Well we certainly expect a free trial to be free.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Free stuff on the Internet[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 07, 2005 at 10:30:31 AM PDT

Part of it is also that people expect that stuff that costs, incrementally, next to nil to provide will not have much of a price tag, if any.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Incremental Costs[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 07:11:10 AM PDT

Bad reasoning here. MyFamily has spent 100's of millions providing the information they do online. It's unreasonable to expect that they can do that using small incremental charges to customers. They utilize 100's of servers to keep their system online and fast for users, and then pay for the ever growing bandwidth, let alone the overhead for their multiple buildings and employee costs. I've always laughed at the "genealogy should be free" crowd... they just don't understand the costs involved to the providers of the services... there's a reason RootsWeb had to be bought out... free genealogy doesn't work unless you have a large benefactor to pay the ever growing bills.

The free genealogy online today is largely supported by MyFamily... so every subscription to them, enables them to keep sites like RootsWeb online and free.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Costs[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 10:32:19 PM PDT

The cost model you assume is massive centralization of research, servers, and so on, plus all the marketing and authentication stuff needed to ensure payment. How about this alternative model: genealogy is napsterized. Individuals research their own family histories and dig up tidbits. These go into a public clearinghouse of such information. This is online but in a distributed form, with enthusiasts maintaining nodes like some people do peer to peer software. The result is to distribute the necessary costs and work and eliminate the unnecessary ones as well as a bunch of greedy middlemen and the associated marketing and advertising parasites. The networked age makes it possible to do this. Why should some greedy company get rich using sleazy marketing tricks to sell a service that can be provided much more cheaply by a distributed community effort?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Back to reality, now.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by foxyshadis1 on Thu May 12, 2005 at 05:56:49 PM PDT

That's fine, but someone first has to do the not insignificant work to bring all those people together, to build the infrastructure to support them and their collaboration, to put a friendly and professional interface on top of it all. If you want to do this, go right ahead, no one's going to stop you, a fair number of people might help you, and all it'd cost you is a lot of time and energy. There's no law saying you can't (just as there's no law saying you can't charge for it), and no copyright on gen. info, so why are you even arguing?

But I suspect all you're saying is you want someone else to do it so you can get stuff for free. They are sleazy, but someone has to build a better mousetrap first, before anyone can use it.

I mean, sure, you can throw a wiki on a web host and call it collaborative geneaology, but the only ones you'd attract would be the die-hards and computer-lovers, not the 90% mainstream (of the small percentage of web-users who are interested in this at all) that would turn your service into a killer app.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Clarification[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by foxyshadis1 on Thu May 12, 2005 at 06:02:19 PM PDT

Before anyone takes my comment wrong, I meant no copyright on family trees, not no copyright on the writings and publications in the field.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Work?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 12, 2005 at 06:12:04 PM PDT

Bringing people together might require someone do not-insignificant work; fortunately, someone has already volunteered to do it for free. That someone is Google. Between that and other methods for people to network with one another using instant messengers and such, there is zero need for centralization whatsoever, and that means a "stone soup" approach is viable in which everyone brings their little bit to the table and benefits from the end result, all without a bunch of greedy middlemen getting rich off it.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Good then.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#42)
by foxyshadis1 on Thu May 12, 2005 at 07:05:08 PM PDT

Fine. Like I said, go do it, report back on your success. If you can bring everything together, I'll be happy, that would be awesome. I still think you're being naive, but some very successful products have come out of naive beginnings.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

The problems lie with the users, not the company[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Sun May 08, 2005 at 08:05:04 PM PDT

People who are complaining about difficulty cancelling ancestry.com subscriptions are only showing their ignorance. The free trials absolutely ARE FREE, when used as directed by the instructions that you are provided when you sign up, and which can be viewed on the website at any time. And no, I am not an employee of myfamily.com and never have been. I am just someone who does not want to see the reputation of a fine company (one that is making extremely valuable contributions to the genealogical knowledge-base) besmirched.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Common Practice[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 09, 2005 at 02:20:24 AM PDT

I don't know how common a practice it is, but the auto-renew has worked well for me. I have have tried a couple of the 14-day free trials, and cancelled them (on the phone) with no difficulties. The reason I started paying Ancestry for access to records is that they bought Rootsweb, and are committed to keeping it free for all visitors. If they ever mess with Rootsweb, I'll cancel. It would be hard to do without all that great data, available to me 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, though. Of course there is garbage data in with the good stuff. That is the nature of databases. Research involves sifting though all the information available, following up ever lead, and ignoring the garbage. Valorie Zimmerman http://valoriez.blogspot.com

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Why not an option on Renewing?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 06:39:22 AM PDT

I am very leery of anything auto-renewing. Why not add an option on the form that says auot-renewing? Then, the users have a very OBVIOUS choice - buy a term subscription or a perpetual subscription. A fair number of sites do. Also, if a company allows me to subscribe via the web, they should allow me to unsubscribe (or cancel) via the web.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Screw the big corporation[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
by Screwthebigcorporation on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 12:49:12 PM PDT

Stop listening to a corporate schill Canada: www.automatedgenealogy.com for the index http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/020122_e.html USA: www.hertagequest.com free access via your local library 1790-1930 US federal census Uk: http://www.freebmd.org.uk just do a google search for more free databases.
Live long and prosper with your loved ones.
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Billing the sick & dead[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#170)
by Anonymous User on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 08:04:56 PM PDT

With this perpetual subscription Ancestry is collecting a great deal of money indeed from institutionalized and deceased people who have not called to cancel. While the persons estate is in probate or credit card is in good standing Ancestry.com keeps collecting money. They have been sued for this rip-off but the subscriber agreed, and their policy is NO REFUNDS.

It's a Scam[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 10, 2005 at 10:13:47 AM PDT

I fell for their 14 day free trial about 3 years ago. After 12 days I called their number to cancel and they said that they had no record of my 14 day free trial and that there was nothing to cancel. I took it at that, but when my monthly bill arrived they had charged it anyway.
Two years ago I signed up for their service. Two months ago at the end of my subscription when they called to "remind" me that they were going to renew (it was actually no more than an attempt to sell me additional services) Itold them I wanted to cancel. They couldn't do that. I would have to call the cancelation number. I called the cancelation number and canceled. The next month I was billed for another years subscription. I called my credit card and had the charges reversed. End of problem I thought. The next months bill I found the charges back on my credit card. I called the credit card company and had the charges removed and ancestry. Ancestry tried to give me the song and dance about it being to late to cancel, but when I started to get nasty. They admitted that they had record of my cancelation before the end of the subscription period and would drop the subscription charges. (nice guys that they are).
They are not a company that I will ever do business with again willingly unless I hear that they have changed their ways. -Mike B

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Ancestry.com[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by erniej on Mon May 09, 2005 at 12:02:19 PM PDT

I have always found them to be accomodating to complaints and responsive to queries. If you don't read the damn agreements, what do you expect? Want them to call you each time you screw up? Hold your hand against the cruel world? Or, when you call or email, should they just mention how stupid you are?
NoFreeRides
[ Reply to This ]

So have I...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#44)
by cribbswh on Mon May 16, 2005 at 01:58:51 PM PDT

These people who gripe about the automatic renewals....I'd like to sell them a bridge... ALWAYS read the terms and conditions of any contract. The terms of the Ancestry.com subscription very clearly states that the account will be automatically renewed yearly. It's not their fault if you don't read the terms.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Sigh...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 18, 2005 at 01:17:01 PM PDT

...another big fan of caveat emptor.

Two rebuttals: one, if everyone read all the terms and conditions they were exposed to and supposedly agreed to (usually just by being exposed to them), nobody would spend any time doing anything else, and of course such documents tend to be made big, bloated, and difficult to read (window size, font size, and writing clarity or rather lack thereof) precisely to discourage anyone from reading the fine print. Why do you think the fine print is fine print? Such tactics are dishonest and shouldn't be rewarded. Of course, the more nasty terms they have to hide in these things, the more discouragement they include to your reading it.

Secondly, needing to read lots of T&C documents to do just about anything raises transaction costs. Either you spend extra time reading and comprehending a document deliberately crafter to be expensive in time to read and comprehend or you risk some nasty surprise down the road; the time expenditure or risk constitutes a cost. High transaction costs slow and cripple an economy, if widespread enough. Mass market transactions are supposed to have low transaction costs, in time and money, precisely to lubricate them. When they involve complicated documents, they don't. That's OK when buying a house or a car. It's not OK for every little thing you do.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

I read it...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#48)
by cribbswh on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 10:14:07 AM PDT

I read the terms and agreement before I subscribed and it took me every bit of 5 minutes. I only read the parts that concern my money.

CC
http://www.cripplecrab.com

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Credit card charges and myfamily.com[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Genef on Mon May 09, 2005 at 04:17:19 PM PDT

While I can understand the concern over automatic credit card charges being applied to genealogy related web pages, they tell you in the fine print about it when you sign up. I don't agree with this practice but I learned a long time ago to always read the fine print and realize it's up to us to protect ourselves from paying for something we don't want. Too many people I'm afraid are gullable and think business is out to look after them when in fact they are out to make a profit. Genealogy Internet sites use to be enjoyable to visit and do research on but lately it's only a business so I've learned to examine each one very carefully before I commit to it.

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Ancestry.com[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 09, 2005 at 04:55:08 PM PDT

As a retired lawyer, I can tell you that regardless of what the contract language says, any business that has as many complaints as Ancestry has, and has had for years, regarding their billing practices has a serious PR problem and is turning off potential customers (like me, who has NEVER signed up with them). In the past, I've read postings from people who have called them in a timely fashion to try to cancel and their wishes have been ignored. I chose long ago to use Ancestry.com's census data only through a public library. Since they want to renew every year, they can deal with any subscription hassles. If I did decide to subscribe, I would want to pay them by money order only (or cash if I were physically near them). And since many subscribers are elderly, I could see that there might be a basis for a lawsuit regarding deceptive advertising prices. I would like to know EXACTLY who owns Ancestry (not just the company name but the officers' names) and what connection they have with the Latter Day Saints Church. Many of us think their connection is very close, and Ancestry's nefarious business practices rub off on the public perception of the Church. I also am aware of many copyright violation issues regarding info people submitted voluntarily to Family Tree Maker. At some point, there might be some class action lawsuits-- There has also been recent discussion on the Association of Professional Genealogists' list regarding their deceptive advertising practices regarding giving the public the impression they can find out their entire family tree in five minutes of research. All of this tells me they are not a "fine company", but greedy businesspeople who do not really care about genealogy or the public.

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Relationship between LDS Church and Myfamily.com[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 10, 2005 at 09:25:59 AM PDT

Corporate information about the company can be found at http://www.myfamilyinc.com -- there is absolutely no financial relationship between Myfamily.com and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, other than that of vendor-client. In other words, the Church has arranged with the company for its products to be available on the computers at the Family History Library and its local Family History Centers. This is a strickly arms-length arrangement. Part of the consideration that went into this agreement was barter -- the Church allowed the company to use the Church's indexes to the 1880 US census and the 1881 British census (thus saving the company the cost of recreating it) and the Church has allowed the company to use a few other resources from its collection. In return, the company provided the Church's libraries and centers with subscriptions at less than the usual cost. The Church has its own genealogical database at www.familysearch.org.

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Greedy Gobblers[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#50)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 15, 2005 at 10:52:44 AM PDT

I am a member of both Ancestry and Myfamily right now out of necessity. I have two family site on Myfamily that I pay for and am a member of 4 others. I became a member back when you could get a free site. The costs has now gradually gone up to around $30 per site. I will probably begin to get all of the information I want from the sites and not renew them after this year. I have a subscription to Ancestry because they basically have ownership of almost everything and you can't do a google search and get results from most paid sites. Alot of the information they provide was freely provided by others and now Ancestry has taken ownership of it, which is wrong. Granted, it may not have been copyrighted material, but it certainly was not given with the intention of one company taking posession and getting rich from it. Gencircles is another site that stinks of greed. Maybe they are one and the same with Ancestry and Myfamily. It started off as a free site and a lot of people uploaded their family trees to that site in hopes of sharing and gaining info from others. Now Gencircles is a paid site. They did no research or work. The people who did the work are the same ones they want to charge now. I intend to take my information off of the site. I think I will do that right NOW!

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Bah[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:36:54 PM PDT

Every time something like this comes up, some people come out of the woodwork that actually think that caveat emptor is a justifiable way for business to be done. It isn't -- not even economically, because it has what is called a high "transaction cost" -- all the research you have to do to not get burned, or else the burning if you don't do the research, is an added cost to every transaction, borne of course by the consumer and not by the business despite the business being the one with the deeper pockets.

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I Agree; economy impacted[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 10, 2005 at 02:55:56 PM PDT

I wonder how much better the economy might be doing if deceptive business practices were not so common. I make about twice as much money as I spend, and I would love to spend some of that money on services and products. Unfortunatly I don't have the time to seperate the crap vendors and products from the good stuff.

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I smell astroturf[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by ekuns on Mon May 09, 2005 at 09:44:58 PM PDT

The posts here sure smell of astroturf. I can almost read the forms the turfers are typing from. Geez. "This fine company." Uh huh. "This fine company" sure has a whole lot of consumer complaints against it. There's not always fire where there's smoke, but given the number and character of complaints we've heard about this company, I find it more likely that their staff are astroturfing than that there are that many independent individuals who so strongly support MyFamily.

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Astroturfing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Jeff Foster on Tue May 10, 2005 at 05:27:07 AM PDT

Yeah it does seem odd doesn't it? Why would people rush to defend which, at the very least, is a needlessly convoluted business practice? And defend it with such zeal! Normally, the anwser would be fanboys, but genealogy software fanboys? I have a hard time imagining such a creature.

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It is a fine company[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 10, 2005 at 09:41:57 AM PDT

I believe that I was the one who made the "fine company" comment. I said that because I believe it. Is myfamily.com a perfect company? Of course not. But I believe that the glass is much more than half-full. And once again, I have never been employed by ancestry.com. But I am a professional genealogist, and thus use their product daily. Because of that, I believe that I see the flaws and imperfections in their databases better than most. And frankly, I wish that they did offer other ways to subscribe, such as pay-per-use. I think giving the service away for two weeks to new customers establishes in those customers' minds that the service is of little intrinsic value. While the cost of responding to one particular query may be very inexpsensive for the company to do, creating their databases, and keeping the servers running, takes a lot of money and employees. So it is understandable that the company would prefer to use an annual subscription model, since that probably provides a more steady revenue stream than other models would.

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Hand holding for everyone.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by erniej on Tue May 10, 2005 at 04:14:06 PM PDT

I also am a professional genealogist and have been using Ancestry.com for many years in one form or another, I currently subscribe to all of their services, I am not paid by them nor am I compensated in anyway for my comments. I am however tired of hearing all of the griping by people living in a mental utopia, where everything is simple and satisfactory and never raises anyones hackles. It's a business and delivers exactly what it promises. Its radio ads leave much to be desired in their "we can find anyones family" approach. Stop expecting everyone to take care of you. Only retired lawyers who probably only worked corporate mumbo-jumbo law would even mention their past law experience in taking up the defense of the elderly who are, in that lawyer's opinion I guess, unable to think or take care of themselves. I am one of the ancient (elderly) participants on Ancestry.com and don't need another lawyer grubbing up untold numbers of "dissatisfied users" to assist in lining his/her pockets through class action torts. Another of Grisham's finest I guess.
NoFreeRides
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Evergreen Accounts and Ancestry.com[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 10, 2005 at 05:00:55 PM PDT

Consider that most of the folks pursuing genealogy on the web are probably getting on in years. I wonder how many of Ancestry.com's customers have deceased and yet because the estate did not cancel the subscriber's credit card, annual subsbscription fees are still be charged and paid. The gift that keeps on giving.

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Try your local library[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 05:31:50 AM PDT

I wholly understand that some libraries will not offer Ancestry, but I would strongly urge anyone interested in genealogy to first check their local library. Even when Ancesty.com, Genealogy.com, et al is not offered, most libraries are offering Heritage Quest at the very least to view census records and PERSI, etc.
While I do live in a metropolitan area, my library offers access to Ancestry in the library and access to Heritage Quest via the internet ... for FREE.
I likewise have personally known people who have been duped by the 14-day cancellation period, but also those who have had no problem in signing up and cancelling before being charged. Caveat emptor!

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Professional Genologist?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 08:07:33 AM PDT

Isn't it kind of cheating to be called a pro that uses a web based genology service? Shouldn't you be opening big old dusty books in some basement to find this info out?. I mean anybody can go to these web sites. Do tell them it will take a few weeks to get the info and then smear some dirt on you when they show up to get their tree when the whole time you spent 5 minutes on the internet to get the info.

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Clients pay for expertise, not dirty elbows[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 11, 2005 at 12:56:18 PM PDT

I am more than willing to go into basements and open dusty books if that is where the information I need is contained, AND IF THAT IS THE ONLY PLACE I CAN GET IT. But why should I take an hour to do that (which I would need to bill to the client), if digital images of those dusty books are available online? I don't claim to my clients that I can look at records they can't. But I know places to look that clients may not know about, or know how to read and/or interpret if they do know about them. For example, one client sent me a copy of the complete probate file of their Irish immigrant ancestor. They had obtained that probate file because they hoped to find that the will referred to relatives still living in Ireland. No such luck. So the client sent me the probate file because I asked for copies of all documents in his possession, but he thought that there was nothing more to be found it in. What I noticed was that, in the inventory of the deceased's possessions, was money in a New York bank known as the Emigrant Savings Bank. This bank specialized in providing banking services to Irish immigrants. I knew something the client didn't -- that this bank required its customers, when they opened accounts, to provide genealogical information, so that when they came to the bank to withdraw money, the clerk could ask a genealogical question that only the real depositor would know, thus providing a means of proving the depositor's identity. At the time, the bank's depositor records had been microfilmed by the New York Public Library and I was able to (after a few hours of work) find the depositor information on the film. This record listed exactly where in Ireland he came from and the names of relatives still living there. This is what the client had been trying for months to find, and I found it in a few hours. So I think I earned my keep that day. But now, ancestry.com has imaged and indexed all of the extant depositor records of the Emigrant Savings Bank. To test the quality of the database when it went online, I recreated the research I had done with the microfilm a few years earlier. I determined that what had taken hours with the poorly indexed microfilm would have taken only about ten minutes if the ancestry.com database had existed back then. Now, I check this database for every Irish immigrant case I get, hoping to again be fortunate, since checking it takes so little time. If the ancestry.com Emigrant Savings Bank database did not exist, I would only be able to justify the time needed to check it (at least a couple of hours) only if I had some reason to think that the client's ancestor had an account there (such as the probate file's inventory provided in the case I described above.) It seems as if the earlier poster would not want me to use any Internet resources, and instead charge my clients for two hours of time (at $35 PER HOUR) instead of for ten minutes of my time. Of course, now that the database is available online, anyone can check it -- it no longer requires being at a repository with a copy of the microfilm of the bank records. But you still have to know about the database in order to be able to find your ancestor there. Sure, it might also come up if you do a metasearch of the whole ancestry.com database -- along with tens of thousands of hits for people who are not your ancestors. So unless I have a client with an ancestor with an EXTREMELY rare name, I never do a metasearch. Instead, I check only those databases on ancestry.com (and other company's databases) that I think might be relevant to the case at hand.

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Professionals and the Internet[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by partan on Wed May 11, 2005 at 01:50:22 PM PDT

It does seem that people believe the Internet is the "end all" for information. In my experience, searching on any website works better if you have some expertise. In other words, any professional person can find credible information in their field of expertise, faster and more efficiently then non-experts. That's the best reason to seek out an expert. Unfortunately, many people fall into the trap of using the Internet as their only source for information. Therefore, they run the risk of being mis-informed and/or spending hours of time only to find nothing important.

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Nuff said? Well said![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by erniej on Wed May 11, 2005 at 02:33:07 PM PDT

Excellent response and as another poster who is a genealogist, thanks. It's strange how if you use your expertise to find something others have been looking for for years, and use the net to assist in that application of expertise, it somehow is worth less in the minds of those on the paying side. At $35 per hour you are a deal.
NoFreeRides
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Automatic rebilling[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 14, 2005 at 09:58:03 AM PDT

No matter what others say Automatic rebilling is a scam in and of itself. for a second look at the Netflix commercial about no late charges...you can keep out a movie for 97 years with no late chages but with recuring fees you would pay $13956.36 - $20,940.36 for those 2 movies... depending on your plan.

Personally I think automatic rebilling should become more like a bill simular to cable...were you pay in advance. They could recharge you if you don't notify them otherwise but that have to send you a written bill before the recharge....

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Famliy Tree Maker software is terrible[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jun 04, 2005 at 08:40:23 AM PDT

this whole re-billing operation is shady. A better family tree software vendor is GenoPro - check it out.

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