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Selling Auction Takedown Services

By Ed Foster, Section Columns
Posted on Thu May 19, 2005 at 08:56:50 AM PDT

Can you be kept from selling a used book on eBay? Apparently so, if the copyright holder's "enforcer" decides it doesn't like the looks of your auction. And eBay doesn't seem to mind.


A reader has a small sideline business on eBay auctioning used scuba gear, books, and manuals that he buys from dive shops in his area. A few months ago he received one of the dreaded VeRO (Verified Rights Owner) notices from eBay informing him that a number of his auctions were being taken down for reported infringement. The auctions were for seven service manuals for different Aqua Lung scuba equipment, but the claim of infringement was coming not from Aqua Lung itself but a company called NetEnforcers.

The reader's first question was whether NetEnforcers was actually representing Aqua Lung. "I studied NetEnforcer's VeRO page, and none of the reasons they give for objecting to an auction pertain to what I'm selling," the reader said. The scuba equipment manuals he sells -- for four or five bucks tops -- are usually unbound three-hole-punched loose-leaf sheets used by the scuba shops for training classes. "They are clearly originals - not photocopies or print-outs. They are printed on high quality paper on both sides, often in color. They are identical to the manuals that dive shops and many online sources sell all the time. I have every right to sell them."

To dispute the takedown of his auctions, though, the reader had no choice but to contact NetEnforcers. After weeks of e-mail exchanges, NetEnforcers finally said that Aqua Lung had agreed to let him re-instate three of his auctions. The other four, although basically identical in type to the one Aqua Lung were OK to sell, were deemed infringing. NetEnforcers explanation for why was not clear, although they suggested that perhaps Aqua Lung thought the four manuals might be printouts from a CD.

"It took almost three months to go through this process, even though eBay states you should have a resolution in a matter of hours," the reader says. "And they still refused to let me re-list four books that I have a perfect right to sell." And his problems with NetEnforcers were not over, as he soon received another VeRO notice from eBay. This time the auction being removed was for a service manual for scuba equipment from Oceanic Worldwide, but that company too was apparently using NetEnforcers as its eBay watchdog. "My complaint to the second cancellation received a terse 'you cannot copy manuals and sell them' from the same people at NetEnforcers, who already know that's not what I'm doing," says the reader. "They said they would check with Oceanic, but it's been weeks and they are no longer even responding to my e-mails. The only hope I had was to file a counter notice with eBay for each item cancelled. I did this, but so far eBay has totally ignored this as well."

There's more at stake here for the reader than just the few dollars those cancelled auctions might have brought him. "The bottom line is that I now have two serious copyright violation complaints on file with eBay," he says. "One more and it's possible I could be banned. I'm not a huge seller on eBay -- perhaps $1,500 in a good month. Now I'm working under a constant threat. Each time I list a manual will it be cancelled without warning? Will I be banned from eBay because some third party complained? I can understand eBay needing a policy to deal with this, but they need a working system that also takes the innocent seller into account!"

You'd think eBay would also have see itself as having a little stake here, but an eBay spokesman had few answers to my questions about NetEnforcers. "EBay's VeRO program allows a rights owner or its agent to report infringements to eBay," the spokesman wrote. "A number of companies have appointed NetEnforcers or similar companies as their agent and thus we accept their reports, provided we first receive confirmation from the company that the agent is authorized."

And there may be a little bit at stake here for you and me, as well. It's pretty easy to see how a company selling auction-takedown services like NetEnforcers describes on its website would be motivated to see infringement where none exists. If such an organization gets to act as policeman, judge, jury, prosecutor, appeals court, and jailor in cases where it is in fact a very biased party, there will be no limit to what bogus claims can be made in the name of intellectual property rights.

It's bad enough that rights holders themselves stretch the bounds of DMCA-inspired takedowns; but we're going to lose a lot if self-appointed copyright or trademark police are given free rein to harass whomever they please. Things like fair use, first sale, and a competitive marketplace are just a few of them. Selling a used book on eBay is becoming a more imposing task than any of us, including eBay, should want to see happen.

--------------------

Post your comments about this column below or write me directly at Foster@gripe2ed.com. To receive this column every week in my free e-mail newsletter, please go to my subscription page and follow the instructions to opt-in for the EdFoster mailing list.

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Selling Auction Takedown Services | 28 comments (28 topical) | Post A Comment
Not motivated to resolve either.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 19, 2005 at 09:20:38 AM PDT

It seems to me that agents would be motivated to shutdown sales without resolving. This would add to their numbers and make them look artificialy good in the eyes of their customers.

I think I would be contacting Aqua Lung and Oceanic Worldwide, and lodging complaints with NetEnforcers. Let the customers of NetEnforcers know that they may not be stopping the number of illegal sales that they claim.

I would also make sure that all of the auction descriptions would clearly state that the product being sold are origionals not copies, in BOLD, multipule times.

mikebmw

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Where is eBay?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by dmittleman on Thu May 19, 2005 at 09:26:36 AM PDT

Seems to me that eBay is on the wrong side of this fight. While they surely want to limit their exposure if found auctioning copyright violation materials, if THEY don't work to create a strong resolution mechanism they will be cutting significantly into their own revenue stream over time.

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Criminal Act[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 19, 2005 at 09:26:44 AM PDT

He has been accused of multiple crimes and is being punished for them. Would the state District Attorney be able to do anything? I have found the District Attorneys for New York and Illinois to be be responsive and act on complaints.

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Restraint of trade[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 19, 2005 at 09:40:54 AM PDT

I'm not a lawyer, but since the reader is in business on eBay, it sounds like we may have a valid "Restraint of Trade" case here. Basically eBay, NetEnforces, et al are stopping him conducting a legal business.

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re: Restraint of trade[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Tue Dec 13, 2005 at 09:50:24 PM PDT

Just found this thread. As for the restraint of trade as practiced by "netenforcers", whoever these jokers are:

Netenforcers actions constitute conspiracy to interfere with or restrain trade, and each incident is illegal under 15 USC 1, and has penalties of up to $10,000,000 and/or three years of imprisonment.

Might attract a lawsuit or 2, dontcha think? Maybe qualify for a class-action...

Without even checking, ebay's tos probably lets EBAY do anything for any reason at any time, their asses seem have been completely covered throughout their existence. We should hire ebay to administer Iraq, IMHO. Casualties (for ebay, inc.) would probably drop to 0.

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eBay Shakedown[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 19, 2005 at 09:44:06 AM PDT

Actually, eBay probably has the right to do whatever they want on their sight. If they want to lose business, that is their option. The problem is with Netenforcers. Personally, I would sue Netenforcers and the scuba shops(take them all in...maybe they will learn it Netenforcers isn't worth their trouble) in small claims court...$5k limit in California. First, you would prove Netenforcers/shops had no right to stop your auction. Second, your damages would be the amount of money you potentially lost on the auctions. Third, you want Netenforcers/shops to remove the 2 strikes against you on eBay so you don't suffer the loss of your eBay business. Have the judge give them 14 days, or you need the balance of the $5k to compensate you for future business losses. That is what small claims court is for.

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eBay[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 19, 2005 at 10:04:08 AM PDT

In my experience, eBay's policies amount to a "guilty until proven innocent" culture in more ways than one.  They simply have too much activity on the site to give the proper amount of attention to most complaints or problems -- but, of course, that's their fault, because it's their site, and they've set it up that way.  I've had personal experience of being referred to the Safe Harbor arbitration service after having a dispute with another eBay member.  The Safe Harbor service was pretty much worthless and required you to pay a fee to fully negotiate a problem.  They claim to have no "pull" at eBay, no power to really change any decision there; all they can do is try to get the parties to come to some sort of a compromise, but without any teeth to make that happen.  So, in my view, they're simply a business affiliate of eBay -- a company who's arranged to accept the stream of disgruntled eBay customers with the promise of helping them resolve their issue, and making a nice profit whether the issue gets resolved or not.  And, when you complain to eBay about this, they refer you back to Safe Harbor.  I think, at this point, that eBay is a good advertisement for the necessity of anti-trust law, and I hope that they'll soon loose their obvious monopoly on online auctions.  Maybe then we'll get some honest-to-God customer service out of them.

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What rights infringement?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 19, 2005 at 12:22:32 PM PDT

Reselling an original manual is not a violation of copyright law. In this case, NetEnforcers is making a report of a rights violation to eBay, absent any actual violation having taken place. So, they are at a minumum in violation of eBay's terms of service. However, it's worse for NetEnforcers than that. It appears they have a pattern of making such fraudulent reports. These reports would seem to fall under wire fraud (18 U.S.C. § 1961(1)) and the RICO act. While I suspect that the primary enforcer for this would be the Department of Justice, the first place to start would be the FTC (www.ftc.gov), filing a complaint both against eBay and NetEnforcers. If you wish to take the civil route, you could file a complaint in US District court. The basis fo the complaint would probably be copyright misuse, and the equitable relief would include the court refusing to enforce the opposing party's copyright -- which effectively nullifies their copyright. This is not something that the opposing party would want, and the mere threat of it should be sufficient to wake them up. And, if you really want to have fun with this, you might contact the EFF, and see if they'd like to take up the case.

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More than just rights infringement?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Colin on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:29:17 PM PDT

It seems that if the eBay seller is being threatened by eBay to be banned as a result of fradulent claims, he may have a good csse for a charge of libel against both NetEnforcers and eBay. It may be time for EFF to get involved!

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Two thoughts[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 19, 2005 at 01:25:12 PM PDT

1) E-bay has absolutely no motivation to deal with such complaints or problems. The number of these incorrect actions relative to the number of auctions they host is so small that if there are a few innocent people accused of wrong-doing, it matters not a bit to e-bay, there are plenty more people to take the place of those they shut down or incorrectly ban. Right now, they are in a position where they have enough willing customers both buying and selling that they really don't have to worry about a few percent of unhappy campers.

2) While the argument is made that e-bay can do what it wants on its site (and while this has appeal to me as a free-market advocate), the fact is that in the rest of the business world this right has already been trampled. Try being a restaurant owner who may own the restaurant, but still cannot keep out people he may or may not want to serve, or run his private establishment allowing certain behaviors (such as smoking) -- the state has already shown that private ownership is meaningless in terms of regulating behavior, why should e-bay get a pass?

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Leverage[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by welkerdp on Thu May 19, 2005 at 02:33:48 PM PDT

By engaging in commercial practices the victim is burdened with the responsibilities of a retail business. If he were running a dive shop, he would be able to leverage his business relationship with Aqua Lung and Oceanic, but because he's selling "salvaged" manuals he doesn't have such a relationship. Methinks his best option is to use forums like this one to get in touch with enough other NetEnforcer victims in enough states to file a lawsuit with considerable mass against NetEnforcer and as many of their clients as possible. That might actually get results.

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Ebay needs to work smarter on fraud first[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by foxyshadis1 on Thu May 19, 2005 at 02:49:25 PM PDT

Ebay and Paypal make a great deal of money off of fraudulent transactions, so they don't have many incentives for clenaing it up. Their service and trust rep hit is easily outweighed by their advertising powerhouse. Fraud and counterfeiting are still far more pervasive than bad anti-fraud - though I can see where some companies might think it'd be awesome to prevent resales, so it could get worse - I wish they'd clean up the most fundamental problems by hiring more experienced, well-trained folks for the job, instead of nickel phone drones. Right now ebay's little more than a lawless flea market with thugs for security.

That's not to say I haven't had a lot of good experiences, but cost of everyone's time goes up weeding through all the fraudulent offers in some areas (Software and Anime especially), especially those who get bitten.

If they'd invest in some better anti-fraud tech, and most importantly the humans who can spot it (all dot-coms think tech can solve everything), and have fairer terms like returning fees when items are canceled for suspected fraud until it's proven, they'd probably win a lot more happy customers. I can't say whether it'd be good or bad for the bottom line, though, which is all public tech companies seem to really care about. Meh. Sorry for ranting.

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Drug dealers like Paypal...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 19, 2005 at 09:13:21 PM PDT

"Ebay and Paypal make a great deal of money off of fraudulent transactions"

Drug dealers have already found Paypal to be an invaluable source for moving cash across the country and offshore. eBay/Paypal don't have the anti-money-laundering resources banks are required to have...

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same problem[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 12:56:33 PM PDT

I have a Yahoo store, and Netenforcers does the same thing to us. They will send us letters telling us to take particular products off of our site or they will take action. We have no choice but to delete these products from our site no matter what. These are legit products that we are purchasing from major distribution outlets. It makes no sense and is completely unfair. In addition, these pictures and descriptions can be seen on almost every other shopping site out there. These major manufacturers should know better than to let a third party company harass their resellers.

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Writing a follow-up[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by shoutingloudly on Fri May 20, 2005 at 04:56:41 PM PDT

I'm trying to give this story additional coverage and follow-up. I've written to eBay and NetEnforcers seeking comments, and I'll post them there and post notice of updates here. In the meantime, the best I've been able to provide is a bit of historical context.

If anybody has had similar experiences, or if the original commenter would like to contact me, I invite you all to write me privately or to post comments.


ShoutingLoudly, helping to build a healthy information ecosystem.


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Missing the "big picture"[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by srynas on Sat May 21, 2005 at 02:22:09 PM PDT

In focusing on the "pain" that that NetEnforcer is inflicting on us, we are missing that they are a symptom of a greater problem. It has long been my thesis that we have evolved into an economic system where the customer is simply a revenue unit. Bottom feeders, such as NetEnforces are simply trolling for revenue. A quick tour of their website left me with the impression of a hollow company. I wonder if they have any undisclosed relationship with the Business Software Alliance (BSA) or even E-bay????? Forbes magazine wrote "... spends all his time making money from patents rather than selling an actual product or service." (Setting Patent Traps 05/24/02) This is accomplished through the use of "submarine" patents. The patent "owner" waits until a company markets a product and then sues asserting that the the company marketing the product owes them money. http://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/065_print.html NetEnforcers appears to be applying this concept to "intelectual property." and is soliciting people who believe they own certain intellectual property to get an "unapproved" user to pay. Forbes in another article states "The patent as stimulant to invention has long since given way to the patent as blunt instrument for establishing an inovation stranglehold." (Patently Abusrd 6/24/02 http://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html) Even Ebay lost a patent case http://www.forbes.com/2003/05/29/cz_pb_0529ebay.htm So they are not exactly "clean". Unfortunately I do not know if the verdict stuck or not. Our society is in trouble if we spend our energy and knowledge to sue each other rather than actually inventing new products.

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Need a NetDefender company[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 24, 2005 at 11:17:33 AM PDT

Maybe an advocate for people who are wrongly accused of copyright infringment could benefit from an opposite company of netenforcer such as NetDefender with resources to shine a light on the offending situation and provide a mechanism for filing court claims in proper jurisdiction.

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Selling Auction Takedown Services[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by AndrewStevko on Tue May 24, 2005 at 11:50:47 AM PDT

What is needed here is a good, tough lawyer. It sounds to me like this person is being slandered. NetEnforcer is accusing him of stealing, apparently without any proof. And eBay is an accomplice by punishing him, again without proof. I would think there are plenty of grounds to sock it to them. That should temper this type of behavior.

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VeRO Affidavits[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by jabba17 on Tue May 24, 2005 at 07:08:12 PM PDT

In order for an intellectual property owner to make a VeRO claim on eBay, they must submit the claim in the form of an affidavit sworn under the pains and penalties of perjury. What this means is that if someone makes a false VeRO claim, they have committed perjury. If this is the case, go ahead and swear out a warrant for the arrest of the CEO and whoever else at NetEnforcers you could deem responsible. Now THAT ought to get someone's attention! The only question is one of jurisdiction--in what jurisdiction do you swear out the warrant? If you need evidence, simply have the prosecutor subpoena the affidavit from eBay. A paper/email trail of your own would also help. On a different subject, how many of these kinds of situations could be resolved by simple communication? I used to work for a company that made flotation swimsuits, which we sold on eBay. Many times people would list their differently-branded swimsuits using our registered trademark as a generic term. A simple, polite email ("our brand is a registered trademark, please don't misuse it, etc.", 9 times out of 10, usually resolved the problem and didn't cost us goodwill out the wazoo.

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VERIO authentication. Not.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by ScubaRick on Fri May 27, 2005 at 02:20:21 PM PDT

Abyone can file a VERIO complaint. For example, Seller A is being undercut by seller B. So seller A created a throw-away e-mail address. He sends a VERIO complaint to eBay. Ebay's ONLY verification is to send an e-mail to seller A. That's it. Seller A replies. He then files a complaint against seller B. Seller B gets his auctions pulled. He's DOA. No way he can ever relist those items. No way eBay will ever help him.

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WRONG[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Sun May 29, 2005 at 07:17:23 PM PDT

Absolutely wrong.
I had some VERO numpty pull one of my auctions for an old LP album of all things.
I IMMEDIATELY relisted the album, with a warning "Any interference in this auction by VERO members or anyone else will result in swift legal action"
I got a nasty email from the VERO, but the auction was NOT pulled.

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Ebay & LPs[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by foxyshadis1 on Mon May 30, 2005 at 04:27:53 PM PDT

This reminds me, my uncle had a lot of problems with "promo" LPs being taken down on ebay, because apparently even 30 years and band dissolution isn't long enough for a "do not resell" tag to expire. I think this was prior to VERO, but it's exactly the kind of thing the were created to do. He ended up hiding them in collections of albums, covering up and tags with other records in photos. I wonder if any of it was cranky rightsholders, I'd have to ask him.

This was a while ago, I don't know if he even still sells there. Ebay was a lot smaller, when it was easier to police this stuff.

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Followup to Ed's article on my auctions[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by ScubaRick on Fri May 27, 2005 at 02:30:15 PM PDT

Let's see - I finally heard back from eBay. It took them three months to reply to my last e-mail. It stated that I was in violation of trademark. Netenforcers stated that I'm in violation of copyright. They can't get their stories straight. I e-mailed Bill Cobb, pres of eBay. I detailed the problems and total lack of customer support. I informed him that the folks in his VERIO program are NOT answering my e-mails or faxes.

I explained that I sell used books. The e-mail follows. Basically it verifies two facts: 1) Nobody at eBay reads e-mail. 2) Nobody at eBay knows what's going on. 3) They don't care about customer satisfaction.

----------------------------------

Hello Rick, Thank you for your email to Bill. This is Nathania, Bill has requested that I reply to you on his behalf.

Rick, I am sorry if the recent delays in our response times made the impression that your emails were being ignored. As we have been personally addressing the concerns of our members, it might have taken us longer than usual before we were able to write back to you. Nonetheless, I see that you are currently corresponding with our VeRO department. Our VeRO department is best equipped to assist you with your current situation.

When reviewing your account I also noticed that Net Enforcers has contacted us on April 13 requesting that the following auctions are reinstated:

7140675437 Aqua Lung Service Manual Micra ADJ second stage

7140675443 Aqua Lung Service Manual Titan 1st stage
7140675457 Aqua Lung Service Manual XLC second stage

These listings were reinstated and moved to the "Not Sold" section of your My eBay. You should have also received an email advising you of this. Rick, please continue corresponding with our VeRO team so that we are able to assist you with your concerns.

Thank you for your understanding regarding this matter.

Regards,

Nathania Staley on behalf of Bill Cobb
President
eBay North America
______________________________
eBay Inc.
The World's Online Marketplace.


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Comment[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by ScubaRick on Fri May 27, 2005 at 02:33:15 PM PDT

I guess the above also indicates that I can't count. :) I finally heard back from Netenforecrs today. They have no record of my takedowns. I have to e-mail them all the details again. IMO, another stalling tactic.

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It's not just eBay...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Sat May 28, 2005 at 11:57:56 PM PDT

"1) Nobody at eBay reads e-mail. 2) Nobody at eBay knows what's going on. 3) They don't care about customer satisfaction."

That's 3 facts. And they aren't about eBay. They are about IT. Throughout the IT industry (and telecom, and it's probably spreading to others), it is true that 1) nobody reads customer e-mail; 2) nobody knows what's going on, or at least they pretend not to when it benefits them to plead ignorance; and 3) they don't care about customer satisfaction.

Their interest in your satisfaction ends when the money changes hands. Once they have it, they have what they want and proceed to ignore you -- unless of course they think they can entice you into buying something else and giving them even more money.

And in most businesses, at the point the money changes hands and they stop caring what happens to a) your new whosit or b) you, your customer satisfaction thus far is based only on the packaging and on advertising claims. Which can and sometimes do mislead. By the time you know how satisfied you are/will be with the product itself, they have your money, the status quo is on their side, and you have an uphill battle ahead of you.

The system is corrupt.

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re: just the tip of the ice berg[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by tabberone on Sun May 29, 2005 at 01:06:32 PM PDT

You only touched the surface. While eBay had good intentions in setting up the VeRO program it has become a tar baby to them. While aware of many abuses that go on, eBay prefers ignore them hoping they will either go away or eBay won't be sued. While the take down notice says "under penalty of perjury" the standard is actually "good faith belief". The standard for good faith belief is about as low as most corporate lawyers ethics. It's just not books that are being shut down but a wide variety of items that rights owners "don't want sold" on eBay in some cases they openly admit this. In other cases they hide behind complicated trademark/copyright law while intimidating the seller using jargon. I have a Hall of Shame on my website which is only the tip of the iceberg. I have been into federal court 14 times to protect my seller account. In all but one case filed the lawsuit first. It's amazing how many people back down quickly when sued. http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/trademarks.html

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ok[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by netenforcers on Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 11:53:55 AM PDT

NetEnforcers is a poorly run establishment that invests almost zero resources into technology and commonly indulges in shady business practices such as payoffs and questionable intellectual property enforcement and harassment. NetEnforcers employs zero automated systems, but does utilize college students from the Gainesville, FL area to scour Google for infringing domains and monitor eBay. Many clients of NetEnforcers are always on the verge of terminating their contract due to poor service, but are commonly deferred by falsified reports citing examples of improved intellectual property compliance over their already elapsed contracted period.

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wslaat[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by hjhjh220 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:19:25 AM PDT

منتديات منتديات وصلات هي منتديات تهتم بالمتصفح العربي وتوفر له جميع ما يحتاجه من مواد مجانية افلام وكليبات منتديات الافلام و الكليبات المثيرة و الحصرية اي فلم او مقطع او كليب يوتيوب افلام و كليبات مضحكة منتدي الافلام و المقاطع و الكليبات المضحكة و الكوميدية funny videos movies افلام وكليبات رياضية منتدي الافلام و الكليبات و المقاطع الرياضية اهداف و لقائات و استعراضات رياضيه مرئية منتدي البرامج منتدي البرامج الهامة جديد البرامج شروحات البرامج برامج المواقع العالمية منتدي الالعاب منتدي جديد الالعاب العاب فلاش العاب كمبيوتر مواضيع متعلقه بالالعاب منتدي تطوير المواقع منتدي برامج لتطوير المواقع سكربتات تطوير اهم البرامج العالمية هاكات منتدي وصلات العام منتديات عامة نقاشات و حوارات جادة لقائات حصرية مشاكل وقضايا عربية مواضيع مميزة منتدي المواضيع المميزة مواضيع حصرية مواضيع و مشاركات هادفة منتدي التصميم منتدي التصميم و المصممين دروس جرافيكس فوتوشوب فلاش تصميم مواقع منتدي المرح منتدي التسلية و المرح مشاهد مضحكة صور مضحكة نكت و مقالات مضحكة منتدي القصص منتدي القصص و الحكايات روايات قصص مسموعة قصص طويلة قصص قصيرة جوالات منتدي جوالات موبايل برامج جوال ثيمات جوال العاب جوال كل ما يتعلق بالجوال ثيمات منتدي ثيمات جوال ثيمات موبايل ثيمات نوكيا ثيمز للجوال ثيمات سوني اريكسون برامج نوكيا منتدي برامج الجوال برامج موبايل برامج نوكيا برامج جوال سوني اريسكون نغمات موبايل نغمات صوتية نغمات جديدة منتدي النغمات نغمات جوال wav و mp3 و amr مسجات مسجات و رسائل جوال رسايل موبايل احدث المسجات مسجات حب مسجات الجوال منتديات رئيسية افلام كليبات رياضة صور العاب تحميل برامج كبيوتر انترنت فيديوهات منتديات عامة منتديات عامة دردشة مضحكة نكت مقالات صور تسلية مرح نقاش منتديات الجوالات برامج نوكيا سوني اريكسون جوال موبايل نغمات ثيمات جوالات موبايلات

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