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Going Into Orbitz Over Privacy

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon May 16, 2005 at 12:24:45 AM PDT

The more you study the privacy policies of companies that have your personal information on file, the more concerned you're likely to become. That was certainly one reader's conclusion after he took a closer look at a revised privacy policy sent to him by the Orbitz.com travel site.


"The identity theft stories have finally convinced me I have to pay closer attention to privacy issues," the reader wrote. "So when I noticed an e-mail from Orbitz the other day announcing they had a new and improved privacy policy, I figured I should read the thing. I've booked a few business trips with Orbitz, so they know enough about me to be dangerous."

Right off the bat, the reader ran into something he didn't like. "In big red letters they've got this 'Your California Privacy Rights' statement," the reader noted. "California residents can write them to find out what information Orbitz has given out to third parties for direct marketing purposes. Terrific, but what about the rest of us? Just because I don't happen to live in California doesn't mean I shouldn't have the same rights."

Such "California Disclosure" notices are actually now fairly common in privacy policies because of California's stricter privacy laws (without which, remember, we would probably never have heard about ChoicePoint or the other security breaches). But the prominence Orbitz gave it made the reader suspicious, so he studied the rest of the privacy policy with increased scrutiny. At first he thought the policies it described seemed relatively benign, but then he came across this in the "To Whom We Disclose Personal Information" section:

We may also disclose your information to our affiliates and non-affiliated business partners for their use both on our behalf and for their own business purposes. For example, our affiliates and business partners may use such information to send you information about their products, services, other information, and materials that may be of interest to you.

A non-affiliated business partner could be just about anybody, the reader pointed out. "Here's a company that knows my name, address, e-mail address, phone number, and credit card, not to mention where I've been traveling lately," the reader wrote. "And their privacy policy lets them share that information with any telemarketer, or spammer, they choose to 'partner" with? That's just great ... Also, if I go to the trouble of opting out, it sounds like they can still keep the information on file as long as they think they might have a use for it."

All in all, the reader finds it hard to believe the revised Orbitz privacy policy is much of an improvement over the old one. "I don't know what the previous policy said -- perhaps this version is at least clearer," the reader wrote. "But what it makes clear to me is that Orbitz can do whatever it wants with the information that I entrusted them with. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised."

< It's Hard to Say Goodbye to AOL | Product Choices and IT >


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Going Into Orbitz Over Privacy | 26 comments (26 topical) | Post A Comment
Scramble Then Terminate?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 16, 2005 at 05:15:37 AM PDT

What kind of history do these outfits maintain on personal data? I mean, if you change your phone number or address, do they keep a record of the the old info for any reason? It seems to me one way that you can protect yourself from this kind of privacy scam is, once you have determined that you will no longer do business with a company, "update" your account information with outright garbage, replacing your email address with one from a disposable email service like SpamGourmet.com in case they do an email verify on the changes. Then let it sit for a month or six weeks before actually closing the account. If they don't go through the expense of maintaining all your old data, then you don't need to care if they hold onto it.

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Perhaps but[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 16, 2005 at 12:22:21 PM PDT

It's rather ridiculous that we should have to do that. Our information should be gaurenteed BY LAW to be our property and the companies should be FORCED to keep it private without Written, Notarized permission of the our permission to give it to anyone...

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Think of it as the Wild West[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 17, 2005 at 05:14:57 AM PDT

Until the law firmly establishes itself, you have an obligation and a need to protect yourself. And one beneficial side effect of this method is that you start "polluting" spam and direct mail maling lists, reducing their worth and the return on investment buyers get. If enough people did this, you might be able to "punish" an unethical company by making their sellable lists untrustworthy and thus unsellable.

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I like that...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:14:30 AM PDT

do you have Bill Gates', The MPAA, the RIAA, and the BSA's leaders E-Mail addresses?

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Re: I like that...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 17, 2005 at 03:58:06 PM PDT

Have you heard of Google? :-) Bill Gates gets 4 million emails a day (http://www.techweb.com/wire/security/53700591). He won't notice one more.

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Yeah, but 3.75 million of those are SPAM![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by ekuns on Tue May 17, 2005 at 09:50:49 PM PDT

Maybe the one non-SPAM message is the one he would read. Or perhaps pay for like those Emails he tracks for charity.

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333[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 06:34:19 AM PDT

Free YouTube Downloader | YouTube to iPod | YouTube on PSP | YouTube to MP3 | YouTube to MP4 | YouTube to 3GP | YouTube to AVI | YouTube to MPEG | YouTube to WMV | YouTube to DivX | YouTube to XviD | YouTube to MOV | YouTube to WMA | YouTube Ripper YouTube to iPod | YouTube to iPhone | YouTube to PSP | YouTube to Zune | YouTube to MP4 | YouTube to Apple TV | YouTube to H.264 | YouTube to 3GP

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Can't cancel[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 18, 2005 at 07:37:31 AM PDT

I, myself, have had some rather bad experiences with Orbitz. I called them last year and told them to cancel my account. When that had not been done, I wrote them (via e-mail) and asked them to cancel my account. After checking, I just found that my account was still active. So I called customer service. Much like the article on AOL,I was told I could not cancel my account with Orbitz. It will remain active, period. The best that I could do was to remove my billing information and notification information. Since my e-mail is my login, I could not even delete that. This seems patently wrong to me. If they need to retain information of past trips for legal reasons, there is no reason they could not archive that information elsewhere and remove all my history from their active database and their web site.

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re:can't cancel...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Fri Apr 21, 2006 at 09:38:09 PM PDT

Put in a fake email...you can go into the acct and chg the email...easy....

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Reality sets in[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 18, 2005 at 08:25:26 AM PDT

My top 10 of things that I don't like about the US' approach to privacy:

01. We do not have a fundamental or constitutional right to privacy in the US today (as codified in law).

02. We do not have the right to demand deletion of personal information that is no longer in use or needed.

03. Virtually no private or government agencies ever delete personal information. At best, personal information is "de-activated" (which also means it can be "re-activated".

04. Privacy notices are not required to be posted by law, except in limited cases (e.g. COPPA, HIPAA, websites targeting Californians). The only saving grace is that if a company DOES post a privacy notice, the promises contained within that notice are legally binding.

05. Third party privacy seals only require disclosure of practices, but they don't require "good privacy practices" (e.g. opt-in for secondary use, sharing, etc.).

06. Most laws strip me of the right of private action, so I must rely on the FTC, my State AG, or (in some instances) my ISP to go after bad actors.

07. Privacy notices can be changed and the site/company/operator is not obligated to get my consent for new or different uses of my data. Simply posting the change notice on a website is usally all that is requried.

08. Privacy is seen as an online exercise. I am no more comfortable having my information sold/traded/bartered/misused/abused when it is collected over the phone, via postal mail, or in person on paper forms! Privacy notices should be requried any time personal information is collected!!!

09. Courts and regulators are unwilling to punish bad actors, unless they can show harm. This is akin to only punishing someone who poisons our enviroment if we can prove that it made someone sick... Oh, wait, that is our approach to environmental law. Pollute and then just take a slap on the wrist fine. By the time it comes out that there is a cancer cell, either the statute of limitations has run out, or the company is long gone... That's pretty much how we are treating all of the cases of data loss, etc. Unless the victim can show they were harmed, too bad.

10. No controls over what happens to my personal information from a secondary use perspective. E.g. What stops OnStar from selling my driving habits, where I go and the hours I keep to the insurance companies? What stops Visa from telling my insurance company that I buy alcohol or fatty food?

Want to see where we are going if we don't implement a legal right to privacy in the US? Check out http://www.aclu.org/pizza.

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US Privacy laws[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 19, 2005 at 09:31:57 AM PDT

If I were an american citizen, I would push as hard as possible to get my politicians to create national laws to protect privacy like they have in Europe (EU) and Canada. If you all start now, it might come to fruition in the next 5 years - hopefully the GOP won't be around to make the laws. Otherwise, you're probably better off with none, or state by state patchwork laws.

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The other side of privacy[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 19, 2005 at 10:07:12 AM PDT

I think someone needs to be a contrarian here. An obsession with privacy can go too far and prevent legitimate interaction. One example: a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist is not allowed to tell anyone who is a patient of his. Sounds reasonable, doesn't it? But what is the psychologist supposed to do when he calls someone and the patient's wife, or secretary, answers? "May I tell him who's calling?" The psychologist can't say; he can't even leave a phone number, because that would trace back to his office. If the patient is in an environment where all calls have to be announced, there is literally no way for his care provider to make an unplanned call to him. Similarly, our obsession with privacy about HIV/AIDS has limited the ability to prevent retransmission of the virus through public health tracking measures that have been used to powerful effect to corral other diseases; in this case, privacy obsession is literally killing people.

Looking at a business situation, just because a customer doesn't want information saved doesn't mean that it's wrong for the busienss to do that. The most obvious example is a deadbeat customer; I've blacklisted some customers, and there's no way I'm going to allow my company to forget it. And if I choose to forward such information to a credit agency, that's legitimate, too.

That, of course, is very different from reselling the names of customers, and I agree that customers should have the right to pfevent that (whether that should be opt-in or opt-out is an open question; the dislocation involved in moving from the current opt-out system to a legally mandated opt-in would be pretty traumatic). But the point is that not every action to "protect privacy" is necessarily desirable. Life is a balancing act, which zealots tend to ignore.

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Yeah, the rules go a bit far[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by LasVegan on Thu May 19, 2005 at 10:31:40 AM PDT

I've had that happen more than once over what I'm sure are just financial companies trying to sell my wife something. No name, no phone, no idea of what it's about. They've always sounded like a telemarketer, though.

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RE: Dr Calling and someone else answers[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 23, 2005 at 06:17:48 AM PDT

RE: "But what is the psychologist supposed to do when he calls someone and the patient's wife, or secretary, answers? 'May I tell him who's calling?'" The doctor can just give his first name and that it is important to talk to the person.

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Leaving a partial name[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Fri May 27, 2005 at 09:51:20 AM PDT

Just giving a first name is not necessarily acceptable/sufficiently vague. I don't know what the official rules are, but in my case, I have a very distinctive first name, and it wouldn't be hard for someone who heard it to figure out my last name; if I were a psychologist, I would then have revealed my identity, and that would probably be seen as being illegal.

The point remains that privacy rules are sometimes hamstringing legitimate business activities that both sides of the transaction want. I think that's a sign that in some respects, the privacy police have gone too far.

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Authenticated-access voicemail[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Sun May 29, 2005 at 12:12:16 AM PDT

Voicemail that authenticates access, rather than a human being taking messages, is what's needed. Preferably with a way to flag a message as urgent, but which enables the recipient to make the sender of the "urgent" message eat their phone bill for that day or something if they choose, so as to discourage its abuse by, say, telemarketers.

Speaking of privacy issues with phoning people and confidentiality clauses, a friend I know in Canada has been getting these really weird phone calls. If he answers, a robot says "You have an important message. Please call <name> at <number>. You have an important message..." -- starting in the middle and repeating several times. If he doesn't answer it it leaves a voice mail, with the same content. The name isn't anyone he says he's ever heard of before; the number isn't familiar either; and whoever or whatever it is will not state their business or even who they are, organization-wise. Apparently the message is sent every few weeks, and changed a while back; previously only having the phone number and not even anyone's name!

As his policy is not to return calls when he has no preexisting relationship with the caller, the caller won't state their business in their initial call, and the voice isn't anyone he knows, he hasn't called the number given in these messages, but it is damned strange; strange enough for him to tell me (with some details withheld) and strange enough for me to tell you (with more details withheld, such as the callee's name and number, which I doubt he'd care to find had been blabbed all over the Internet :)) ... I was wondering if it is a sales pitch as he suspects, getting around telemarketing laws and the like by not making a sales pitch in the initial call but leaving an "important message" to call back at some number. Then there's a sales pitch, but it's not unsolicited, because he dialled them, and the rules are more lax. Well, after reading this, I got to wondering about that. There could be a more innocuous explanation, if he has ever retained the services of a lawyer, doctor, psychiatrist, therapist, or whatever and they didn't feel it safe to state their business leaving a voice mail. But since he says he got merely the same robotic drone when he was present and answered the call in person once (it tends to occur in the afternoon on weekdays), it doesn't seem like this is the case. I'm inclined to suspect a telemarketer or worse...

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Automated Calls[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by wagnert on Tue May 31, 2005 at 07:35:20 AM PDT

I had something like this happen to me several years ago. Out of curiousity, I did call them, and discovered someone owed the company money, but gave them a random phone number (mine) instead of their own. It took multiple calls to them before they deleted my phone number from their records.

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Hrm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 05:23:31 AM PDT

Did the company give a name? In the case posted about above, the automated messages had nothing but a phone number at first, and later a phone number and the name of some person, but never a company name, which seems very odd.

If they can't be bothered to have a live human make these calls or at least make the recording state the company name and the business of the call, they can't want the money very much, can they?

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Privacy laws[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by LasVegan on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 08:04:38 AM PDT

If they're debt collection they probably *CAN'T* leave their name.

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and an ironic side to privacy[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by falsecut on Thu Jun 09, 2005 at 11:57:17 AM PDT

"An obsession with privacy can go too far" but watch me post as "Anonymous User". I am amused.

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Roe vs. Wade[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by tscoff on Tue May 31, 2005 at 03:24:53 AM PDT

In America we do have a legally mandated right to privacy.  Our Supreme Court found it in the Constitution when they decided Roe vs. Wade and that is why abortion is legal in every state in the country.

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All the same[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 09:44:22 AM PDT

I have read the policies sent by banks, on-line services, etc., and they all have this catch-all statement that says they can and will share the information with any and all who want it. This in a long and detailed "privacy" policy. I always write them and tell them to not share my information with anyone, for any reason. It was provided to them for the purpose of the given transaction only, and nothing else. I don't know if this does any good, but I have to try.

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lingering[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
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silent killer[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 02:06:37 AM PDT

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thank you[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 01:20:42 AM PDT

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asder[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 02:56:35 AM PDT

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