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What Dell Support Thinks of Dell Support

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 12:15:02 AM PDT

An interesting byproduct of the GripeLog being open to anonymous posts is that I seem to have accumulated a pretty healthy collection of comments from posters purporting to be Dell employees in India and elsewhere around the world. Of course, I can't verify that they all actually were from Dell employees, but following the tone over time shows a trend that lends some verisimilitude to their statements.

Back about eighteen months ago, the comments started off pretty apologetic about the Dell support gripes readers were airing. A poster who said he or she had just resigned after six months with Dell support in Hyderabad said that Dell technicians would sometimes know right off that a problem required a replacement component, "but we are bound by company policy which prohibits us from dispatching components until we finish the script given us by Dell management," the poster wrote. "I basically felt really bad in situations wherein I had to make really old people open up their computers, and I did in fact meet people on the phone who would be in tears if we told them that they need to open their machines. But I want you people to know the level of pressure and stress a tech support guy has ... from the top management. You cannot even imagine our plight."

By less than a year ago, though, the tone had definitely changed a bit. "You have problems with page-cannot-be-displayed, cannot-connect-to-Internet, and blue screen errors?" a Panama-based Dell tech responded to a reader's description of support woes. "They are all Windows-related problems, and guess what? Dell is a hardware company. If you have problems with Windows not running properly, blame Microsoft and call them to fix it. But most users don't like to do that, because they charge money. Instead, they prefer to call Dell and blame Dell tech support and sales and customer service because they have problems with Windows."

Shortly thereafter another poster took an even more decidedly plague-on-all-your-houses approach. "I too am working in Dell tech support," the poster said, saying his job had been to route calls to the proper support group. "The great thing is that tomorrow is my last day here. Great because this by far has been one of the least gratifying and frustrating positions I have ever held. Yes, there are extensive and considerable problems with Dell tech support. Their outsourcing to India is not even the least of them. Every day is a continuous assault by absolutely clueless and irate customers and an ineffective phone-based support system that is enough to make anyone crack. I'm saying that it all sucks: Dell's systems and their support and the morons who purchase them ... So many times I've had to restrain myself from telling customers who are whining about what a piece their Dell is that, hey, guess you should've bought a Mac. Goodbye, Dell!"

More recently, a Dell support tech in Mumbai, India had his own gripes for people who gripe about offshore support. "Honestly, I don't like Dell as a company, at least most of the time, because of their policies and other stuff that affects my job," the tech wrote. "But when it comes to computers, you are the worst people to deal with. I don't blame other people whom I've spoken with who don't know much about computers, especially your old folks, they're cool and sweet people. And they admit that they don't know hell about computers, which is my pleasure to educate them with some basics. They are not stupid; the REAL stupid people are like the ones who posted comments here. Hey, don't get mad at Dell because of your ignorance, c'mon ... And as for Dell and other companies outsourcing to Asia and costing you jobs, well you know what, Michael Dell and the rest would rather pay an Indian or a Panama guy 20 cents per hour that the guy will spend on feeding his family every day than an 18-year-old American intern 20 dollars per hour that he will spend on Budweiser in one night. Any company that wants to survive is doing the exact same thing. That is how it is and it will not change, so shut up and live with it."

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What Dell Support Thinks of Dell Support | 60 comments (60 topical) | Post A Comment

Good experience with Dell premium Service[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 09:51:28 AM PDT

I bought new Dells last December, and paid for the premium sevice. I've had a series of good experiences with Dell's India customer support. I like that they are there 24/7, and as long as I resist the temptation to try to prove I'm smarter than they are (that is, I let them follow their scripts), they are very helpful. With premium service, my average wait time per call has been less than 5 minutes. - The Precision Blogger http://precision-blogging.blogspot.com s6myfl702@sneakemail.com

[ Reply to This ]

Dell Customer Service Sucks[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#52)
by Anonymous User on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 01:48:01 AM PDT

I bought a Dell desktop and after delivery took their offer to extend the warranty for 3 years for only 85.00 after rebate. Except I couldn't apply for the rebate by following the instructions they snailmailed me. So I punched my way through layer after layer of voice menus until I got to speak to "John" who was obviously in India. It annoys me when non-Americans give me American names and even try to mimick American accents, but not for the reason you probably think. I respect the people in India working for computer companies whether or not they realize they are being outrageously exploited. When they ask me if there is anything else they can do for me, I tell them yes, join or form a union! So it annoys me when they give me some American name. I know they must be required to do that to appease American racists and to try to fool Americans into thinking that Dell is employing Americans. The American corporatocracy is the evil doer, not the worker bees stuck in one of the thousands of cubicles in third world countries around the world. But it's hard not to be rude to the person on the other end of the line when you've spent twenty minutes punching through voice prompts only to be put on hold and have the line go dead. John directed me to the web page where I had to download the form, print it and mail it in. I don't know why they couldn't have printed that on the rebate offer or had a prominent link from their home page, but I suspect it's because a substantial number of people just give up and pay the full price. About three weeks after mailing in my form, I began attempting to track my rebate. Logging in to Dell's web site and entering my various customer numbers, order numbers, tracking numbers and what have you consistently returned the information that I didn't exist. I tried calling but got so exasperated punching through voice prompts only to find that "the rebate center is now closed" or some such thing that I gave up for another week or so. When I tried again, the web site still said I didn't exist and the line went dead after my 20 minute ritual of button pounding when the rep put me on hold. A week later, I finally exist on the web site, but there is no indication of wheter my rebate has been processed or when I might receive it. It DOES show that I bought the warranty with rebate, however so I suppose I may get it some day. I only wish I could talk to a real person at Dell so I could tell them I will never buy from them again.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Old people and tech support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by spocko on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 10:08:50 AM PDT

Reading this post reinforced a thought I've had for awhile. Who really "pays" for support of messed up computers? How many of you tech folks reading this article support one or more computers of friends and family? I polled people at a recent party. Every tech savvy person there supported from 7 to 13 computers.

Last month I spent 8 hours removing "Error Guard" from my father's computer. He said it "looked official" so he installed it. Later I spent another 4 hours removing spyware/adware crap from his lap top. On one hand I'm happy to do it since I can be the hero son, but I also resent the need to do it because:

1) Microsoft makes an operating system that is constantly breaking.

2) Microsoft will charge YOU to fix THEIR buggy software.

3) Third party companies that make crap like "Error Guard" or "Search Assistant" can mess up a computer and get nary a slap on the wrist. These aren't teens in a basement creating these products to cause havok. These companies can be found, they have assets. Somewhere money is changing hands to make and sell these products.

4) Hardware and software manufacturers have pushed the support of their products further and further down the responsibility chain. They know that as long as they can get someone else to take the responsibility to fix the problem they are off the hook.

Over the years we have come to accept these practices as the norm. Why is it okay for Microsoft to charge money to fix their broken product? Yes you can come up with all sorts of reasons WHY it is okay, but ask yourself, "Why am I defending this practice?" Are you so worried that Microsoft will lose money and you will stop getting calls to fix your families' computers? Do you work in an industry that makes money fixing broken computer software and hardware? Or have you accepted the premise offered by so many EULAs `even if it breaks it's not our fault'.

Companies are not rewarded by the marketplace or Wall Street for taking responsibility for their products. They are rewarded for passing the buck, charging money to fix their problems, doing it as cheaply as possible and using tech support desks of major companies and a legion of "free" technical support people to do their dirty work for them.

Lately I've become disappointed in the power of the media to accurately grasp and address these issues. They too have bought into the Microsoft paradigm "Our product breaks, you fix it!"(maybe because they don't have to fix their own computers!). Would a campaign from someone like Walt Mossberg yelling at companies about this issue make a difference? We can't use Walt because he is no long a befuddled person facing paying $35 bucks a shot for technical support at Microsoft or getting the run around from Dell in India. Additionally, a high level person who will talk about this probably won't admit to bursting into tears at the thought of opening his computer. And if he did, would he get sympathy or scorn?

Yet these people clearly are out there. They are our fathers and mothers, our Aunt Mary and our Uncle Jim. They are the ones who taught us about personal responsibility and how to balance our own checkbook and own up to our mistakes.

Who speaks for those people?

Is Elliot Spitzer our only hope? He seems to be the only person on the national scene who is looking out for the needs of the people first and not the needs of the companies. People create "if cars were like computers" jokes all the time. Maybe it is because nobody dies if a computer crashes. Is that what it will take for companies to financially and philosophically take responsibility for their own mistakes? Will they need to be sued and punished by some force other than a rigged "free market place" or a corrupt political system?

Spocko. Author of www.spockosbrain.com the blog that is sweeping the nation! Now with 19 readers!
[ Reply to This ]

Some of your points are spurious...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by BobTheBuilder on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:07:40 AM PDT

I agree with much of what you said above, however throwing MS under the bus over and over is kind of silly.

Your first point should have been worded closer to this:

1) Microsoft makes an operating system that is constantly under attack from hackers, pirates and bad software vendors.

Regarding your second point, I challenge you to install ONLY Microsoft software and see consistently bad behavior. The instability is usually caused by some freeware that you just "have to have" or a bad vendor like Adobe who write software for the Mac and hack it to "sort of" work on the Windows platform. (not to mention the blizzard of mal-ware on the internet)

No operating system is perfect. Apple had a bunch of problems between OS7 and OS9 and OSX is starting to show some cracks here and there. Pure Linux will remain a predominantly engineering centric platform for the foreseeable future (same applies to UNIX). What are you looking for in an OS, a game console perhaps?

Your right that MS charges for support. But I have had good experience with that support when compared to Adobe (who also charge per call) . Or with Dell where you basically get to have someone read the user manual to you.

All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Microsoft[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 01:35:45 PM PDT

"I agree with much of what you said above, however throwing MS under the bus over and over is kind of silly." If they'd be good boys and die the first time, we wouldn't have to do it over and over again. ;) "Regarding your second point, I challenge you to install ONLY Microsoft software and see consistently bad behavior." That's ridiculously easy. Everyone knows how much stabler things are if you switch from IE to Firefox and put on a free antivirus, Ad-Aware, and Spybot Search and Destroy, and some firewall like Sygate. A pure-MS-software box is going to be crawling with viruses, worms, spyware, and trojans in no time!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

You're letting Microsoft off too easy[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by ekuns on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:33:04 PM PDT

I challenge you to install ONLY Microsoft software and see consistently bad behavior.

Like Internet Explorer or IIS or Outlook or .... ? If the operating system allows applications to crash the operating system, then the operating system is broken. If the operating system allows applications to leak memory or other resources that are not returned when the application exits or crashes, then the operating system is broken.

It's totally fair to blame OEM hardware drivers for crashing Windows, because drivers by definition are allowed access to enough ability that they CAN crash the whole operating system. But bad application software should never be able to crash the whole machine. Yes, you can point out that if the application were written better then that crash would not happen, but the OS should not allow it to even be possible.

Microsoft has also always (usually?) focussed more on usability than on security. I understand why they did so, but people have been warning Microsoft for over a decade that severe security problems would be the result. This is why people blame Microsoft for bad security in their product. None of the bad security in MS Windows is really a surprise. Security experts have been telling Microsoft what is wrong since the mid or early 90's and Microsoft failed to act in any decisive way until the market started forcing them to act. The result is their current catch-up attempt to make their products even approximately secure.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Backward compatibility[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 12, 2005 at 09:20:11 AM PDT

Users want everything - at no cost to them. They like that application they got in 1990 and want Windows XP to still run it. Microsoft knows how to make a good, secure and trustworthy OS, but the consumer won't let them. We need a new, clean system that probably will not run any apps from the past. But, how is that ever going to happen?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

I Agree with what you say[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 01:49:49 PM PDT

As to your question as to who is speaking for the consumer, no one is. That is why I have always purchased custom made white box PC's from small local vendors. In this way I speak with my wallet and only support suppliers that I can have a more direct and personal impact with. Now I don't know how well this would scale but I have personally made buys of 100 PC's in a single order from local vendors and received excellent support, service and pricing. I am sure there are plenty of local vendors in the major urban centers of the US that can handle much larger orders. In this way you are more likely to be an important customer of the supplier and receive more attention because of this. Rather then just being an invoice number to a Dell or IBM. In order to receive special consideration form the national vendors you need to commit to large multi year contracts in the multi million dollar price range. With local vendors you can receive the same level of service on orders one tenth that size.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

That's a great idea but what about...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by spocko on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 07:18:18 PM PDT

laptops? I'm needing a laptop for myself and a handful for my clients. As far as I know there aren't any whitebox vendors of laptops.

Any suggestions? I need it to be powerful enough to run and display some digital video content.

After reading all these comments I'm stuck by some fatalism and maybe some Stockholm syndrome.

It takes a lot of energy to go a different route sometimes and demand more of vendors. For awhile people were pushing the TCO view to reveal that the cheapest priced PC isn't really the cheapest to own and keep functioning, but a certain Wal-mart psychology of "Always the lowest price! Don't ask us how!" has dominated a big segment of the market.

Lots of people don't want to or can't effectively calculate the real cost of things. Somebody else picks up the slack.

I like the thought processes behind the one guy who has 300 folks to support. Interesting calculation. Of course SOMEONE pays, but at least we can see the cost for what it is. Compare that to more staff you can also get a dollar figure. Compare it to 150 teachers and 30 student volunteers spending hours not teaching or learning but fixing their computer. How do you measure that cost? What other "costs" aren't built into that model?

We keep spending all this time fixing our friends and relative's computers. In previous years we might have spent the time fixing their cars. It makes us feel smart and useful.

Why isn't their much more pushback? Are the demands and/or attempts to financially punish a big vendor a waste of energy? I think that part of it is because for us smaller buyers we feel like our demands fall of deaf ears at the vendor level. Or when we do speak up we get good advice as well as crap from our own community on how to avoid the situation or just accept it "Get Lynx! It's your fault for not using all Microsoft! Their is nothing you can do. Globalization is inevitable, it drives down the price and no one can fight it, just get over it."

We also get some help but also lip service from the vendors. Externally they say, "We value your time and are working to provide you the utmost service." But when they look at people's actions their behavior is, "They only look at the bottom line cost, they bitch about service but the bitching doesn't really hurt as much as the lack of sales at a higher price point." Why? A bean counter mentality when buying and not enough Total Cost of Ownership people who have to pick up the spilt beans complaining.

What will it take to effect change? More defections to Linux? A huge buyer demanding more or refusing to buy? More education from consumer advocates? BTW, Who ARE the consumer advocates? The Action 7 on your Side, guys aren't going to take on this problem. Government isn't. Is everyone counting on the invisible hand of the market to punish the monopoly players?

Be prepared for a long wait, because at least one monopoly player has used the bank to buy the refs and is not going to jail, but is definitely collecting their 200 dollars. (Wow, I just impressed myself with my own metaphor! Excuse me while I look smug for a second.)

Well I'm going back to working at a smaller scale since the process of effecting change on a large scale is wearing me out. Maybe one of you out there will be the snowflake that breaks the branch or the 100th monkey that figures out how to wash the oysters.

Spocko. Author of www.spockosbrain.com the blog that is sweeping the nation! Now with 19 readers!
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Dell to customers--These suckers will help you![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#42)
by spocko on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 01:01:44 PM PDT

Why should we help you, when there are a bunch of ego starved people out there willing to do this for the price of a 12 dollar t-shirt?

Check out this article in Forbes Dell outsources customer service to customers.

Note that in the article nary a mention of how this might impact customers, it's all panting and puffing about how much they cut back on human labor costs. "Hey Wall Street, look at us! We are treating our customers like shit, just like you told us to. We've sent away our jobs to India, too. Is there any other behavior that we can do to destroy the company to please your quarterly sales world view? Because we'll fire everyone (execept execs) and ship the jobs to China if you want, just please don't punish our stock price. PLEASE."

--Signed Dell Management

Spocko. Author of www.spockosbrain.com the blog that is sweeping the nation! Now with 19 readers!
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

agree[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#50)
by Anonymous User on Fri Apr 29, 2005 at 11:01:10 PM PDT

i certainly agree wid u...but this crap error guard cant be removed from my pc...please help

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Not so fast, bucko...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 11:54:23 AM PDT

"You have problems with page-cannot-be-displayed, cannot-connect-to-Internet, and blue screen errors?" a Panama-based Dell tech responded to a reader's description of support woes. "They are all Windows-related problems, and guess what? Dell is a hardware company. If you have problems with Windows not running properly, blame Microsoft and call them to fix it.

Here's a newsflash: Dell's contract with Microsoft states that Dell is responsible for supporting Windows on their hardware. So like it or not, Dell's support reps have to handle these issues.

[ Reply to This ]

Sure Dell supports software...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by talmy on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 12:53:46 PM PDT

but only for 30 days, and their solution is "reinstall". But what do you really expect? There isn't enough margin to provide real support. And people aren't willing to pay. (Look at all the complaining about the high cost of Macs.)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Who supports Windows at Dell?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by OlderThanDirt on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 01:22:01 PM PDT

I'm looking at the cover of the copy of Windows XP Pro that came with one of the new Dell systems my company leased last year. It plainly says the following: "For product support, contact the manufacturer of your PC." That sounds like the ball's in Dell's court for support of Windows issues to me. Slam and dunk, Dell tech guy!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

High cost of Macs[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 02:12:59 PM PDT

The high cost of Macs has more to do with low sales volume (compared to Windoz PCs) and the cost of "cutesy" and "trendy" product design than it does with the cost of support. My Dell Latitude is over 6 years old and is still going strong (only thing it can't do is play any new games). Only one failed component and that was the CD-ROM drive. Tech support had a new one on its way in no time. That was before Dell outsourced their tech support overseas however so I have no recent support experience especially as any OS issues I can solve myself.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Not "reinstall"[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:46:43 AM PDT

I got the "reinstall"" mantra from Dell Support two years ago. But now with Win Xp,they are much more likely to tell you to restore the registry to a previous save point. - precision blogger

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

OEM is responsible for Windows Support[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 06:14:06 AM PDT

Absolutely! If you buy a new computer with Windows pre-installed then the manufacturer has assumed support for Windows. Compare IBM's support to Dell's in this area to see how it's supposed to work.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

CONTRACT[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#48)
by Anonymous User on Fri Apr 29, 2005 at 01:45:55 PM PDT

Dell and Microsoft have a contract, yes. But it states that they will verify functionality of the operating system only. No usage support. If it blue screen they can help reinstall it. There is no support for "I reaaaalllly needed to download that free song from a shareware program and now I am so riddled with spyware that I can't do anything and can't get online. Bad DELL bad DELL BAD!" Dell can only support so much. If they supported everything under the sun and then some your hold times would grow that much more.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Budweiser[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 01:27:32 PM PDT

TO the INDIAN IDIOT, I don't even LIKE BEER! I work with people who feed their families and try to make a living and GUESS WHAT. The fact that you live in a place where 20 cents an hour will feed your family doesn't make it any more acceptable for Michael Dell (or anyone else) to foist bad support off on their customers in order to increase their (tax sheltered) high executive salaries. And when Phillipine (or Indonesian or Mexican) support becomes cheaper than Indian will you be as sanguine about someone taking away that 20 cent an hour job? It is more expensive here than you think... SO take you stinking racist, superior attitude and stick it..

[ Reply to This ]

re; Budweiser[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 03, 2005 at 02:30:05 PM PDT

You live in this privileged country of ours, I assume. As a fellow American, I'm letting you know that your words and attitude are ugly. It's clear who the racist is. The good thing is, you can still be a better person whenever you decide to.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

JERK[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#53)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 09:39:15 PM PDT

I believe you're the racist. I WORK in technical support. Once someone gives YOUR job away to someone who is ABLE to work for 10% of your hourly wage, then - and only then - can you even comment. Jerk.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Paying for quality support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by tscoff on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 01:45:48 PM PDT

I work as a Director of Technology at a school district. I am one person supporting roughly 300 teachers, administrators, and secretaries. One of the things which we do that enables me to do that is I refuse to allow anyone to buy a computer that does not come with a 3 year on site warranty that includes real support. If it takes me more than 10 minutes to get a computer repaired under warranty I'm done ordering anything from that vendor. My phone calls for support consist of, "I reformatted the hard drive and restored everything to the way it shipped from the factory. That did not fix the problem. Here is the serial number, the building the computer is in, and the problem. Come out and fix it."

Do I pay extra for the support? Absolutely. It's less expensive paying for that support than it is hiring another person to spend an hour on the phone trying to navigate Dell's or Gateway's "support" system to get someone to agree to send out a single part that may or may not fix the problem.

Wouldn't you like to have that type of support for your mother's home computer so that you don't have to fix it for her? But are you willing to spend the money? Most corporations aren't willing to spend the money, fortunately I work for an organization that realizes it's cheaper to spend the money than it is to hire someone.

[ Reply to This ]

OPM not real world[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 03:45:23 AM PDT

OPM - Other Peoples Money is not the real world! "fortunately I work for an organization that realizes it's cheaper to spend the money than it is to hire someone." With all due respect Mr Director of Technology, working for a "school district" that is spending tax payers money, is not the real world. Of coorse if the they had to spend their own money, maybe you'd be fixing the computers instead of just picking up the phone a calling for help. Your little story just proves why taxes are so high. I'm not impressed... get a real job!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

You fail to see the point[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Fushigi on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 05:35:23 AM PDT

He is paying less for the better support than it would cost to hire more staff. Making a few estimates, if each PC's 'warranty-that-works' averages about $100 per PC and he buys 300 PCs/year, that would run $30,000 per year. That is far cheaper than the $40-70K per year they would be paying if they hired somebody. Not to mention the added cost of parts, travel to the schools, etc. that it would take to do the work.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Completely correct[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by tscoff on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 04:24:57 PM PDT

Thank you for making my point for me. It is more cost efficient to spend more money up front on a warranty with a vendor who will provide us with real on site support than it is to hire another employee to spend all of his/her time on the phone with Dell or another big name vendor which won't come out to fix their problems until after they've wasted an hour or more of taxpayer money (a $40,000/year employee actually costs over $30/hour) by keeping someone on the phone until they go through their scripts which is all they're allowed to do.

When we get to the point where we have 1800 or so computers which are under warranty I'm going to do what the big corporations which I used to work for do when they negotiate their contracts well. They have employees of their vendors on site dedicated to doing nothing but warranty repairs on their computers and the vendor stocks spare parts on site for the warranty repairs. When their computers break they put in a trouble ticket in their help desk system and route it to the vendor's employees. Then the vendors employees contact the end user whose computer is broken and go to where that end user is in order to fix the problem. The corporations have to provide office space and a telephone and in return they get warranty support that the rest of us only dream about.

I bet money if you talk to Dell's top 100 customers every single one of them has this quality support or better. It's my job to spend your tax money carefully and get the most bang for the buck that I can get, and by insisting on quality warranty support I do that. If your local school district's technicians spend hours on the phone every week with tech support over hardware/warranty issues you should ask your school board why they are willing to accept low quality support when buying computers. Run the numbers, it's far more cost effective for the customer to get quality support than it is to live with the support that Dell foists off on most of it's customers.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Let me get this?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 02:02:50 PM PDT

Are you making the claim that you are purchasing the following services for 300 or more PC's for less then $40,000 a year; On-site hardware support (24 hour response time) On-site software support for OS and all application software (24 hour response time) On-site Network support (24 hour response time) On-site Security support (24 hour response time) On-site support for Printers, Scanners etc Operator Training when you upgrade software or hardware Because that's what you seem to claim and I simply have never seen that type of support at that low of a price point.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Individuals Can Do This Too[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 07:37:10 AM PDT

Every PC I've bought for personal use is put together by a local one-person supplier with on-site warranty repair right in my house. If you're in a metropolitan area, there are many honest people making a living doing this. It costs not that much more money up front, and in the long run costs far less because I rarely need to upgrade or change anything, because my system is reliable. Also I get the PC customized for me (for example, I have a dual drive system for backup purposes.) Nobody should buy anything as complex and buggy as a PC by mail order unless that's the only option.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Fake Indian rep[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Elrond on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 01:50:57 PM PDT

I'm willing to believe that the first couple of quotes in this story may have come from actual Dell techs. The likelihood that the last quote (ending "shut up and live with it") is actually from an Indian is approximately zero. Both the tone and the language are extremely American. What Indian uses "c'mon" or "you know what"? And Indians are getting paid considerably more than 20 cents an hour, which an Indian would know. That message at least is clearly from a ringer.

[ Reply to This ]

Pay[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#49)
by Anonymous User on Fri Apr 29, 2005 at 02:26:42 PM PDT

Not to mention that American phone reps do not get $20 and hour, most don't even get half that!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Hate Indian "Customer Service"[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 02:02:24 PM PDT

I went through a two week period during which I hung up on no less than four Indian customer/tech support reps (from different companies) -- and not at the start of the call, but when they insisted on asking stupid questions and suggesting things that had absolutely no relevance, or simply being unable to handle a situation they were not expecting. I just could not deal with the insistance on following the stupid scripts they have and being unable to deviate from it when it was clear that I knew more than they did. There is a truly wonderful cartoon available at http://www.illwillpress.com/tech.html. If you have ever had to deal with Indian tech support and gotten frustrated, you will think it is the funniest (and saddest) thing you've ever seen.

I love Dell's TV commercial where the guy calls tech support at 11 o'clock at night from his bed and gets a live person. He's very impressed that he gets to speak to said live person. Of course, this is a fictitious commercial, because the person he was speaking to was clearly an American with no accent.

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Dell Sales People[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 02:04:43 PM PDT

They don't even talk about Dell sales people. A friend of mine placed her order, got it late and it wasn't what she ordered. She had no interest or space for subwoofer speakers and repeatedly told the salesperson that. But, that's what she got. To get it corrected, she had to ship the whole setup back to Dell. That is poor service no matter where they come from.

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Scripted Technical support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 02:15:30 PM PDT

What galls me to no end is why Dell and other companies have this delusion that they can actually script out a technical support solution to anything more than the most basic problem. As complex as computers are now, both hardware and software, a script proves over and over again how woefully inadequate it is to the task of tech support.

Not to mention, the script is treated as the god of all tech support. Whether the techs are in India or South Africa or the polar ice caps makes no difference whatsoever to me. What matters is, Can they solve my problems with system failures? The script can't do it in any but the most simplistic of cases wherein I wouldn't be calling anyway. But when it becomes apparent on the phone that the techs know less than the guy calling in, it's time to give them the discretion to abandon the script and kick it up to the next level without grinding through the now useless script.

And to the guy who's complaining about Dell being a hardware company only? I don't buy that. You're offering up a copout because the minute Dell started packaging software with their hardware, they became a software company. For one thing, they DO have a software tech support line. For another, they agree with Microsoft, et. al. to provide tech support solutions for installed software, they sell maintenance agreements to cover said software, etc. etc. Don't run for cover when you get the onslaught of criticism for not providing tech support for software. Just a theory, Dell seems plenty big enough to give Microsoft a swift kick in the pants by suggesting they will NOT install their software at the OEM level any longer. Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, it could have a worthwhile impact on MS.

But I digress.

As with the hardware, pal, if you can't handle it, or the script can't handle it, kick it up to the next level support where they CAN handle it and stop whining about your inability with the software AND with the hardware.

Yes, of course I had a truly HORRIBLE experience with Dell Tech Support recently. Perhaps I'll post the details at some future time if it seems like it will matter at all.

--Wag--

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support[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 03:51:19 PM PDT

you keep saying to kick it up to the next level of support.... Dell has no next level of support... you get the L1 Techs... thats it.
Not sure where you got the idea that there was a next level but I can assure you that there is none. Atleast none that acutally talk to customers.

Besides, how can you gripe about something that your not paying for?

Do any of yall read warranties? Dell is very clear on what they support and what they dont support. If you get spyware why should that be Dell's problem too fix? did they send you the spyware? did they make you download that P2P app that came bundled with crap?

To tscoff that wont wait more than 5 min on the phone... your gonna run out of options VERY quickly my friend. Looks like in about 20min you will be the ONLY support that thoes people get.

If it takes me more than 10 minutes to get a computer repaired under warranty I'm done ordering anything from that vendor.

Guess you will be making homegrown PC's for all thoes people cause your little criteria system is as unrealistic as it gets. After thoes homegrowns dont work out cause you yourself dont respond in less than 10 min people will go back to using the old school pen and paper.

I would like you to define "real support" what is it that you want??? With the money that your not willing to shuck out (apparently if your support ration is 1:300 you cant afford to hire more people, so your "company" must be broke) you get what you get.

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response times[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:13:10 AM PDT

Why is it we accept poor response times so blithely - let alone defend them? I used to work for a major telecom company and we had requirements (at least locally) that said a phone never rang more than 3 times. And a customer service call NEVER went to queue in those days. When we finally did implent a queue system, there was a light to tell you when customers were in queue. When that light lit up, everyone jumped on the phone. Now people seem to think you're crazy if you expect decent customer service. I think the school administrator is well within his rights to expect decent customer service as should we all. We're crazy for letting these companies get away with poor service. And NO ONE should defend them - IMHO.

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One more point.....it's OUR tax money![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by tscoff on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 04:35:10 PM PDT

One more point. It's our tax money which pays my salary. If I accept low quality support from vendors and I waste hours every month on the phone in order to get things fixed which should be fixed quickly and easily under warranty I am not doing my job. Part of my job is to spend your and my tax money wisely and accepting the support that Dell, HP, 3Com and Gateway think is acceptable would be negligent on my part.

My job is to get the best value per dollar spent, and my salary is part of the total cost of ownership. Computer uptime is a vital part of the value of a computer and time spent getting computers repaired is a part of the true cost of a computer. I'm spending my tax money as if it was my own and getting the most bang for the buck that I can get. I just wish that I could get the same quality of service for my home computer that I can command for my employer at work.

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10 minutes?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 10:29:49 PM PDT

I'm one of the contractors that comes out to your house or business to fix the computers. I work on other brands, but Dell is the lion's share of the work I do. For whatever they're worth, here's my thoughts...

A "party pack" swap of a motherboard, RAM, CPU, and power supply on a typical Dell Dimension desktop takes about 15-20 minutes when you include tweaking the BIOS settings and testing the system for proper boot and operation. A typical OptiPlex system is about 10-15 minutes, because they're designed for quick changeout of parts, and the Precision systems usually run 15-25 minutes, depending on the particular model.

If you say that you can disassemble, motherboard swap, reassemble, flash both service tag and BIOS, and test a Dell laptop in 10 minutes or less, I'll kindly tell you you're full of crap...if you've never tried it before, try it sometime and see for yourself. I'll safely bet you can't do it in less than 15 minutes.

Do you seriously think that every problem can be resolved in 10 minutes or less? You'll likely run out of companies to deal with if you stick with that figure. Talk about unrealistic expectations...

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I don't think that's what he meant[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
by dliesse on Fri Apr 01, 2005 at 09:22:02 AM PDT

The way I interpreted the original post, reading some realism into it, is that if he had to argue on the phone for more than 10 minutes to get someone to come out then he would be through with the vendor. Any professional is smart enough to know that the actual work will probably be longer than 10 minutes.

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Indian vs. American[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:22:27 AM PDT

For some reason, the Americans don't have to follow this script or are more likely to ignore it. I had a problem with my Dell and went round and round with their tech support - all with Indian accents - each time following their script to the letter (it was obvious). Finally, on my 3rd or 4th call, I got a lady with a southern accent. I asked her where she was from and she said Tennessee. The first words out of my mouth were "Thank God". The run-around ended right there and I got my problem fixed.

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Ah, India Tech Support...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by goodkat on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 03:57:56 PM PDT

Okay, I will admit that my company has Dell computers, and since we have 3 year service contracts, I always get someone in the US, because their business support is located here (thank goodness!!!)

However, I had an occasion to call Compaq tech support for my home PC, to get the OS reinstallation CDs. I got someone in India. I asked him if they had any CDs without the extra software and garbage that comes bundled with it. To this, he replied, No, you have to go to Microsoft, and buy that.

I told him to send me the CDs anyways, because I knew how to hack the registry and uninstall all the extraneous software. I was surprised with his response to this. He asked me that since I knew how to hack the registry, could he call me for support when customers called in needing registry help? And then he proceeded to flirt with me... from India!!!

Needless to say, I turned him down, and informed him that there were better sources than I for registry support.

I haven't called back.

A frustrated (and a bit confused) techie

-------------------------------------------------

To err is Human... to really foul up things requires a Computer (or big business)!
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Indian tech support[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 03:54:09 AM PDT

If it's free, it's kind of what I expect. We buy Dell notebooks and have no problem with their business support, it's all American. We pay for that privilege.

What I hate is when we pay good money and the company uses people we cannot understand. Nokia is like this. We pay them a substantial bit of money for 'support' from overseas workers with almost unintelligible accents. Last time we called, I couldn't understand the guy and handed the phone to my co-worker. He couldn't understand, either, just shrugged his shoulders and hung up the phone. This is for hardware 'warranty' and supposed IPSO/Check Point support. The hardware is nothing but a cheap motherboard that probably costs $15 in quantity, along with a customized ROM.

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fire him[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 11:34:40 PM PDT

You should have asked to speak to his supervisor. I work in tech support (not Dell) as a QA, meaning I'm the one who listens to the recorded calls they warn you about when you're on hold. One of my colleagues listened to a call the other day when an agent was asking a young female customer whether she had a webcam. He got his ass fired.

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The Real Story[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 04:31:34 PM PDT

The real story with Dell is that they sold out their great brand-name and their specialty product line. Sold-out, meaning that they now focus on mass-produced, mass market product-lines. Of course there are going to be unsatisfied people. This is a high volume business now with a lot of newbies buying Dells. It wasn't that way in the begining. Well my company bought these new mass produced Dells as well. Corporate buyers have no idea about things like chipsets, burning and testing, server grade vs consumer grade components. In fact, it seems fewer and fewer people in the IT business understand. The new plastic Dell line doesn not have expandable form factor for interchaning components with off-the-shelf replacement parts. The cases are so small, there's no room for a second storage device. Guide rails and other internal devices have custom mounting hardware. Dell should have been kept the Dell name for servers. So the name losses meaning and ultimately business suffers.

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Careful who you slap around![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by BobTheBuilder on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:28:50 AM PDT

You said that

"Corporate buyers have no idea about things like chipsets, burning and testing, server grade vs consumer grade components"

Obviously you have never created an unattended build for mass deployment. Obviously you have never worked in a large corporate shop. An office of under 100 workstations and a server or two is not the mainstream "Corporate" market. When managing thousands of desktops and laptops with machines, (on lease or depreciated on a three to five year turnaround) one must be an expert in those very subjects as well as many others.

Dell equipment has ALWAYS consisted of lowest common denominator commodity parts. Dell support has ALWAYS been substandard. Compaq and IBM have always been more consistent than Dell in manufacture. (Compaq is sliding down the HP tube though).

For example we have Dell desktops that shipped to us with different motherboards within the same model number box. NO one does that other than dell. Look at the failure rates of Dell Latitude 600 laptops. Bad motherboards (Dell is swapping out over 600 at one client that I work for) and extremely bad USB device that has a fifty percent failure rate. The model is discontinued after eight months!

But when buying thousands of units at a time price IS an issue. Corporate buyers have to answer to directors, board members and shareholders to justify costs. Intangibles like user downtime are generally not taken into consideration by those high on the food chain. So go ahead and beat up on directors, board members and shareholders for the lowering of the bar. The Buyers and techs know what the issues are, but they just have to deal with it.

All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer.
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I had it happen with Compaq before[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 11:39:07 AM PDT

when the state agency I worked for went all Compaq. Different internals for the same model number. And this was in 1996/1997 timeframe. It happens to anyone and everyone.

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Dell Prices vs Dell Support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by auctionhugh on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 06:28:24 PM PDT

I sincerely dislike dealing with dell's india tech support. However, I love buying a dell midrange (4700) P4 system, 512 megs, 40 gig, cd rw, 17" flatscreen high res monitor, for 400 bucks! Hello! I assume that is why they are selling them so cheap, because their support is practically free!

I haven't figured out why, but every now and then I get dell USA tech support and I just love it!

-----
Get help with your website from AuctionHugh's wife Kathleen.
Professional, artistic, and EASY for you!
Kallen Web Design of Grand Rapids

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400 bucks, no way[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 10:23:38 PM PDT

I just configured your system. I tried every which way I could to lower the price. This is what I got:
Dimension 4700
Pentium® 4 Processor 520 with HT Technology (2.80GHz, 800 FSB), Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition, 512MB RAM, 40 GB HD, 15" LCD monitor.

$839.00
Dell Home Customers: Save $150 off the Dell Dimension 4700!
- $150.00 rebate = $689 total

Where do you get $400, Hugh?

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$400 systems[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by wantobe on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 03:33:14 AM PDT

Man, I hate those damn Dell ads showing some great system (with an LCD monitor) for $500. My clients want to buy one, and when I explain that the system has only 128MB Ram, no monitor, 32MB shared video RAM, and is, in short, inadequate for anything other than basic email and internet purposes, they get mad at me!

It used to be that I woulnd't mind the additional cost of a Dell, and would encourage my clients to buy them even for home systems. Sure, I'd tell them, they cost a little more, but the excellent support is worth it. That was over 3 years ago, of course.

Now, I just tell them to save their money, get a decently configured system from Best Buy or Circuit City, get the 2 or 3 year support option for the hardware, and decide at the time if they want to take the computer to the retailer for warranty repairs or call me. Most of them are happy to call me rather than have to deal with all of that themselves.

As for those of you are even now dusting off your "Circuit City/Best Buy are horrible companies" rants, I've recently had an excellent experience with Circuit City buying a new laptop, and have never had any major issues with purchases I've made (or recommended that others make) with either company. So there!

Rob Miles
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
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CircuitCity/BestBuy[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by sconeu on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 08:44:04 AM PDT

Actually, for one-off and we-need-it-now laptops (we're an extremely small shop), I've been purchasing at Costco.

The big selling point for me was the 6 months, no-questions-asked return policy. We had a laptop where the screen went dead after 2 months, and we needed a replacement that day. I backed up the data (thank goodness for external video connectors), restored it to factory pristineness (so that none of our data would be on it), and returned it. Bought a new laptop (slightly better model). No muss, no fuss (except for the data backup/restore).

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States of America.
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Costco/Sam's Club[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by wantobe on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 03:20:42 AM PDT

Here in Virginia, our version of Costco is Sam's Club (a Walmart thing), and there are certain systems and circumstances where I'll advise a client to purchase there. I would have considered my laptop purchase there, except that Sam's Club has a habit of having the absolute minimum system for a not quite good enough price, and a high-end system for a good price, but way more than I wanted to spend.

Rob Miles
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
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PC's still not for the faint of heart[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#44)
by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 12, 2005 at 09:39:36 AM PDT

I've been in this business since before PC's. In the early days I gave a person their money back because I saw that they just would not be able to ever "get it", and their frustration and the cost of my time and reputation was not worth it. 25 years later, a certain type of intelligence and learning is still necessary to use a PC. Not everyone can do it. Until they are as reliable and simple as a car, this will be true. Dell is selling and supporting a sophisticated product into a market that thinks it is a commodity. People with VCR's flashing the time as 12:00 buy a PC and expect it to just work and they never will need to understand the product. Then they get frustrated with tech support when they cannot even give the necessary details to the support tech. The script Dell has developed to handle these situations may seen overbearing, and I believe the techs should be able to shortcut the process once they realize the customer actually knows something, but I can't blame the company for the lack of smarts of the customers.

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You're partially correct there . . .[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)