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What Kind of Sense Does Phone-Only XP Activation Make?

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 11:55:09 AM PDT

One reader's recent experience reactivating Windows XP takes on added meaning in light of Microsoft's decision to begin eliminating Internet activation. What seemed like a strange system to him then is about to get even stranger.


"Ed, I avoided it for a long time but I finally had to deal with the Microsoft reactivation process for Win XP," the reader wrote in January. "I switched out a faulty motherboard/power supply with no problem. Upon reboot, Windows thought it needed to be reactivated. So first I try to do the reactivation over the web. No luck. Then I try the phone reactivation. It tells me my installation number is invalid and hangs up on me. Is this the way you treat customers? So in desperation I call Microsoft's main number and finally get redirected to the reactivation people. So we play read and enter numbers for a while and then I have to get transferred to yet another person to finally do the activation. Am I nuts or is this an insane way to run a business?

"Now, here's the part that really left me scratching my head," the reader continued. "At no time during any part of this process did anyone ask me any question to verify that I actually had a legal copy of Windows or that I actually owned the copy in question. It was just give me the numbers and input these numbers. So how is this stopping piracy if I can just call up and get reactivated without anyone even asking for the original disk key or something to verify that I am a legit licensee?"

Well, of course, the answer to that last question is that activation was never intended to stop the real pirates. When it was first introduced, Microsoft liked to say it was designed to "keep the honest customers honest." This latest move, along with the "Windows' Genuinely Disadvantaged" program, seems more to be about keeping the honest OEMs honest. Whether the end user legitimately paid for a copy of XP with his PC, and whether the Certificate of Authenticity you received with it was real or not, just doesn't matter now. It's whether you can convince the Microsoft reactivation staff that you are truly deserving by whatever mystery criteria they will use to sit in judgment on you.

Of course, perhaps this makes all too much sense from Microsoft's point of view. From the time it first introduced activation with XP, the big question has always been how long Microsoft will support it once it has a new OS. The elimination of Internet activation would appear to provide us an answer. Once Microsoft has a new OS it wants to migrate XP users to, how likely is that reactivation person will listen to your pleas? Write me at Foster@gripe2ed.com or post your comments below.

< Fair EULA, Beta Version | A Fair Job on the FEULA >


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What Kind of Sense Does Phone-Only XP Activation Make? | 48 comments (48 topical) | Post A Comment
XP activation[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by LasVegan on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 06:32:11 PM PDT

You misunderstand how the system works. Yes, you only read them a bunch of #'s and got back a bunch of #'s. Contained in the #'s you read them was your serial #, though. You had no trouble with it because that serial # hadn't been activated too many times.

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Re: XP activation[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Ed Foster on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 02:26:17 AM PDT

Interesting. So let me ask you, do you actually know something about how the XP activation system works, rather than how the MS mouthpieces say it works?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


No need to know the internals[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by LasVegan on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 10:26:03 AM PDT

When I had to call in because of too many on-line activations they knew how many times my license key had been activated. That means they have some way of deriving the license key from the #'s you give them.

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Link to info[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Jarulf on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 11:19:33 PM PDT

http://www.win2kwereld.nl/main/WindowsXP/Inside%20Windows%20Product%20Activat/inside%20windows%20pro duct%20activat.shtml

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


This is quite good[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 10:42:50 AM PDT

This is a really good white paper on the workings of the activation process.

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Activation[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 04:23:42 PM PDT

Really, how did you get the link to work? I just get a 404 error.

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Re: Activation[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by foxyshadis1 on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:48:18 PM PDT

remove the space in 'pro duct' (the textbox entry might have cut it off, or the poster thought it had to be cut manually)

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XP activation woes[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 02:54:25 AM PDT

What I do not understand is why cry babies like the author CONTINUES TO USE WINDOWS? Why don't people who are feed up with the outrageous greed and dangerous products produced of and by Microsoft learn to use a different operating system? Are they lazy or JUST PLAIN STUPID? I have not used any Microsoft product in my personally owned business for over three years now. We use Linux and Apple products and get along just fine without any Microsoft product at all. And we don't have to worry about constant security patches, viruses, spyware, computer freeze ups, product over pricing, dealing with ridiculous licensing procedures, or software activation. None of these problems exist outside of the "Microsoft World". I say to all you cry babies out there feed up with Microsoft - pull your head out of your behinds and move to another operating system. And to the smart-ass that will surely reply to this saying that the problems that I named above do exist with non-microsoft products - I say: No, they do not, you are so wrong! If any of the above problems do occur using Linux or Apple products it is on an insignificant scale. And not because these products are used by less people, but because these products are designed for REAL PRODUCTIVITY and not as advertising platforms, toys, and monopoly enablers.

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Employers[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 06:48:20 AM PDT

If you don't own the company, you don't get to choose the OS. Especially with some specialty software that only runs under Windows. Grow up, the author isn't stupid, he just doesn't get a choice. Why throw out all his software to replace it with Linux/Unix and then HOPE there are drivers for his equipment?

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just moved to unix[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:21:37 PM PDT

I dissagree, one always has a choice, ALWAYS. I just recently realised that I was being a lazy cry baby, so I am going duel boot ( win. 2000 and Debian ) and will begin sorting out what I want to move from win. to Debian. Once that is sorted out I`ll deleat win. forever. So it takes more work, so I actually have to do something. Guess what, now I dont have a "microsoft computer" I have a computer. What I mean by that is exactly what the original thread said. Now I dont have a toy, I have a real computer, now I am not supporting a company that puts out junk and seeks only to make money with no care for customer satisfaction. TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD: harshly put but I believe you are correct overall, thanks. side note: I no longer have an x-box, and never will again... guess who makes it. I feel that supporting a company ( or anything for that matter) that isn`t interested in your happyness is stupid and wrong... more importently, I dont have to deal with microsoft lameness ever again unless I CHOOSE to, and I wont.

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In the real world ...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by ChuckGabriel on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 08:35:30 AM PDT

... there are software packages (like AutoCAD and Microstation) that do not have OsX or Linux (or Unix) counterparts. Until someone develops alternatives to these products that can maintain the usefulness of all the legacy data and truly offer at least the same level of functionality, there will be people that don't really have much choice in terms of operating systems.

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just moved to unix[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:24:42 PM PDT

you always have a choice, get a new job, or learn to make the programs that you need for a os that isn`t microsoft. you see how you have a choice and not choosing is being lazy.. harsh but IT IS A FACT. qed

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Non OSS Games in OSS platforms[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 04:05:47 PM PDT

Try gaming in *nix, BSD, etc. Yes it can be done, but most game co's write for Windows.

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I get tired of seeing statement like this.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 07:29:06 PM PDT

Really, some times you have to use Microsoft because what you want to do runs only on their products.

Next is your simple minded statement about security. Please realize, that if 90 plus percent of the computers in the world used Linux/Unix and were Apple, you would be complaining about those instead.

By the way, don't feel to smug and secure. I'm already seeing security vulnerabilities taken advantage of in Firefox. Guess critical mass for bad old, bug ridden, security holed software is about 10 percent.

I'm old enough to remember the days of the real monopolies with computer companies such as Apple and IBM. When you had to buy everything from them, OS, software and hardware. Computers that cost thousands when that was money!

IBM made a mistake not locking the PC up in patents and Microsoft MSDOS standardized a generic computer. IBM and Bill Gates changed the world forever. Give credit where it is due, you would not have any choice if that did not happen. At best you may have had pay Apple $5000 a piece for their latest Mac and $1000 for an Apple ink jet printer for it. To that end, I doubt you would have even had the internet to blast everyone outside your little world with anyway.



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Oh My![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 09:56:19 AM PDT

The post you responded to was uncivil and uncalled for, but really ... Do you work for MS or something? Firefox may not be perfect but it is a lot better than IE which is simply a horrible product. Apache may not be perfect but it is many orders of magnitude better than IIS which is the most insecure product I have ever seen. IBM made no mistake by avoiding patents - the market would be much smaller and they wouldn't have all those consultants running around making them a fortune selling services. If Bill Gates became an investment banker instead of starting MS (and buying DOS - not writing it - so it would have existed either way), there would still be BSD, Linux, whatever Digital Research would have produced, and probably plenty of other alternatives. If he did start MS and didn't illegally use it's monopoly power to destroy competition (which the company has been convicted of on 2 continents), who knows what great software would exist today.

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Hacking Exposed (the books) page count[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Reziac on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 11:37:43 AM PDT

Hacking Exposed, 2nd edition:
Windows section (Win9*, NT*, and Win2K), about 150 pages.
Netware section (all versions through 5.x), about 65 pages.
UNIX section (meaning primarily linux), about 45 pages.

PLUS the entire second volume, Hacking Linux Exposed -- 560 pages.

http://www.hackingexposed.com, if you want to buy your own copies. Very informative books, should be studied by every sysadmin for any OS.
~REZ~
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because it's gripeline[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 11:08:17 AM PDT

if the author switched off microsoft he wouldn't have as much to write about. it's all about gripes and he needs his job.

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Midrange ERP[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 11:48:07 AM PDT

90% of the midrange ERP packages on the market were developed in the late 80s/early 90s under the MS Windows client/server environment.  Once you have committed your medium-sized business to one of these products you are stuck:  you can't just swap it out.

sPh

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Your ignorance certainly shows.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 12:04:31 PM PDT

Hmmm virus and hacking doesn't occur on non-windows platforms? Or the ones that do are irrelavant? What fantasy world are you living in? You are just totally out of the loop, over zealous and a bigot.

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No viruses on Apple/Mac networks? Hah![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 07:57:49 PM PDT

Yeah, right. I was recently an IT manager stuck managing tech support staff on a network that was ALL Macs. We had viruses via e-mails, we had Macs freezing/hanging all the time, we had second rate software that was about two generations behind versions written for MS OS's, etc. etc. etc. I'm happy for you that you don't experience viruses and other nasties, but trust me, Macs are NOT the answer to everyone's problems. It was actually a relief to get back to Windows.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Mac Memories.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by foxyshadis1 on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:17:10 PM PDT

Supporting System 9 was one of the worst experiences of my life; I only found out later that the constant crashes in everything were due to a statically compiled library bug that Apple never officially adknowledged. I guess someone came out with a way to fix it, but it was too late for me. OS X is also much better at networking and stability, except enough of our business software was system 8/9 that I never saw most of those benifits. And Mac is still a few generations behind MS in built-in management, though I like where it's headed.

I hope that someday I'll have the ability to use alternative platforms that are better than MS's in every respect, not just a few, but as a web programmer who's been burned by a need for compatibility with many browsers I wonder how many features and testing cycles will be eliminated from massively cross-platform software for cost and compatibility reasons.

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Piracy MY BUTT[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 26, 2005 at 07:10:53 PM PDT

It is called MARKETING STRANGLEHOLD.

In order for EFFECTIVE DRM to be implemented, it will have to have MOTHERBOARD/BIOS support.

If you want everyone to use COMPLIANT MOTHERBOARDS, you force them to the BIG OEM'S who are quietly installing whatever Microsoft tells them to.

Then you get rid of the WHITEBOX GUYS.  You fix it so XP eats the registry every so often on the white box, and the customer has to RELOAD THE OS.  The whitebox is a REAL PAIN because of product registration.  The whole time the MICROSOFT employee is asking customer if they bought from a  LEGIT DEALER, insinuating that the DEALER MUST BE A CROOK, LOOK AT THE JUNK MACHINE AND PIRATED OS HE SOLD YOU.

So, the world buys HP/DELL and gets free ONLINE REGISTRATION ... no more waiting in line for the call center.

So, the only people running NON-COMPLIANT motherboards will be Linux folks, those evil pirates, those UN-AMERICAN GPL'ers, those PINKO COMMIES!

I think that sounds more like it.


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Not quite true...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 07:06:50 PM PDT

This means that a tech will not be able to use the OEM number on the sticker of those Dells, Gateways and HPs to reload Windows without the manufacturer's restore disks/partitions.

Whitebox machines usually don't have the sticker to begin with.

Most pirated copies of XP are most likely the Corporate version anyway. No activation needed there.

This scheme will probably increase piracy as time strapped techs will either use the Corporate version, or some patch/crack system acomplish a generic reload. No tech will be able to spend even short times on hold to activation when there are machines to be fixed and time is money.

Microsoft is making Linux look better all the time!



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Short?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by foxyshadis1 on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 10:05:48 PM PDT

To say nothing of the fact that hold times on the activation line are never 'short'. They are far shorter than Intuit's however, which seems to require reactivation after 1 install as far as I can tell.

I REALLY wish that they would allow to leave a callback number (or enter it into the activation line, which dispatches an email to them), and submit and recieve the numbers that way too. Speech is a hideously inefficient way to transmit random numbers. After all, it's the same charge to them whether they call you or you call their 877 number.

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But[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 09:19:02 AM PDT

But you make the false assumption that they want to make it easy for you. They want to make it easier for you to buy a whole new copy rather than reactivate, instead. Also, your scheme wouldn't work anyway. If your OS won't work demanding reactivation how the fuck are you supposed to send and receive email?! Not everyone has a spare computer lying around y'know.

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PIRACY[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 07:13:04 PM PDT

If the white box does not have a COA number, then you should call 800-RU-LEGIT and turn the whitebox builder in.

I have been an OEM for Microsoft.

I only buy OEM product from authorized distributors.

But I would not bet against Microsoft cutting my throat if they thought they could get DELL & HP to support their next big marketing ploy.

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Activation (not re) just worked fine...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 07:17:39 AM PDT

I just built myself a new computer from parts, buying a new OEM copy of Wind XP Pro with the motherboard. I just did an internet activation of it - without registering - and it took maybe 5 seconds total.

So, while it's certainly still possible that MS has some evil motive, and the reader's eXPerience (heh) was deliberately caused by them, I suggest that it's more likely that a bug or incompatibility is the root of internet activation failure in his case. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity or incompetence...."

Never go on an adventure without a hat!
Indy



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OEM is valid ONLY on the original PC[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 09:21:29 AM PDT

I was literally on hold with MS product activation when my Gripe2Ed email arrived. How ironic is that...

I had an OEM copy that I was trying to activate. It was originally on another PC that died. I was wanting to use that version for a VM that I used to test various scenarios. I had activated it too many time so I had to speak with someone on the phone.

After being on hold for 20 minutes I told her the truth and said what I was trying to do. She said sorry, you can only use that license of Windows XP on the original PC (even if it is dead). I guess I should have just lied and said it was an new motherboard, etc.

I also have a MSDN universal license. She couldn't give me a way to activate it either. I have to use the MSDN media to use a MSDN key.

So I paid for a legitiamte XP Pro license that came as an OEM version and I can no longer use it unless I resurrect the original PC.

So now I get to delete my VM and reinstall XP from the MSDN DVD.

The whole product activation thing is NOT a way to prevent piracy. All it does is make legitimate and honest customers have to jump through hoops and waste their time dealing with it. All the while the pirates continue to use the software without any of the hassles we have to deal with.

With as many supposedly "smart" people that MS has you would think that they would be able to figure out that they can't stop piracy and stop penalizing legitimate customers.

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So "lie"[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 09:55:10 AM PDT

Just call 'em again and say you've had to replace the motherboard, in a new box. Stress whatever parts you carried over - power cord, cables, monitor, etc. The old computer didn't die and get thrown out, you simply repaired or replaced all the broken parts. And it's not really a lie, it's the same computer, just with a new MB, CPU, HD, video, case, CD, etc. <grin>

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Or, don't use OEM copies[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 11:13:40 AM PDT

With MS and other software companies punishing the honest user every chance they get, it's not a surprise that at least a few of those users figure out less than honest ways around the restrictions. The corporate version of XP is widely available on the web or p2p networks, and there's at least 2 different keygen programs that can create Volume License (corporate) product keys. Just install, and you're done. No product activation needed.

I use a corporate version on all my systems at home. (My employer bought a volume license contract shortly after XP came out, and we have way more licenses now than we have company PC's) I've upgraded hardware several times in the past couple years, never had to hassle with activation.

When talking to a typical phone rep, being honest about a reasonable request isn't likely to work. All she heard was OEM license not on the same hardware, the script on her computer says deny activation. Yes, you should have lied and said hardware was replaced.

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OEM vs. Corporate/other[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by Fushigi on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 05:03:09 AM PDT

Two problems:

1. For the average consumer, OEM licenses are actually cheaper to buy than legit upgrade licenses. It runs $30+ less to buy an OEM WXPPro license + misc. piece of hardware (i.e. case screw) than it does to buy the upgrade version. MS does not reward loyal customers who want to upgrade.

2. Your home usage is very likely not legit despite your successful activations. Your employer owns the licenses and unless your home PCs were provided by your employer, you're very likely violating the usage terms.

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Licenses[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by Anonymous User on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 11:03:12 AM PDT

I don't recall the exact details of our license agreement with MS; but, I believe that employees who use their personal systems at home for work purposes are permitted to install a corporate license version of XP. By the way, there was no "successful activation"; corporate licenses of XP do not use product activation.

Frankly, even if it's against the license terms, I don't really care. It's a legally paid for license for X number of PC's, and my running it on systems at home is not causing us to use more licenses than we paid for. (There was around 500 employees when the license was purchased, there are now less than 100.)

There are people who build a new PC, purchase an OEM license, and don't install it, they install a corporate version using a leaked key instead. It may be against the license terms, and may even be illegal under the copyright laws purchased from our government by major corporations. I see nothing morally wrong with bypassing the product activation scheme as long as you did purchase a license for the PC it's installed on.

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No Sense At All[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 11:59:45 AM PDT

I loathe any type of activation/registration requirements before software can be used, simply because I'm darned tired of having to throw away software that I still want to use after the publisher has gone out of business or was bought out by somebody else that doesn't want to support their old products. As a home consumer, when I go downtown and pick up a software package, I BUY it, not LEASE it and that gives me the right to use it forever should I choose to do so. Adding any sort of activation/registration requirements will eventually deprive of that right. For those unthinking induhviduals (apologies to Dilbert & Scott Adams) that throw out the old "then switch to another OS" line, most of us are using the OS that we are required to in order to run the software we want. In my case it is an assortment of windows-based games that do not have Apple- or Linux-based versions available. My children and I still play several games that are over five years old so it is perfectly plausible to consider that we may want to play new games we buy now five years or more down the line. Under the current system or required re-activation I have no guarantee that I will be able to reinstall my legit OS after some inevitable hardware failure, and there is also no guarantee that any new game on the market will definitely be able to run on whatever the successor to Windows XP will be. As far as MS's restricting a license to the "original PC only", where can I find their definition of "original PC"? As soon as I've replaced the mouse or a defective floppy/CD-Rom, or upgraded the memory, it's no longer "the original".

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Phone Only XP Activatrion[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by mjbr on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 12:48:29 PM PDT

No other industry gets away with this. Hopefully some class action attorney is going to figure out the ultimate attack on gates and his bunch. MS life cycles are getting shorter and shorter and the users simply get screwed once a new version is out. While change is traumatic, it is not everlasting. Our only defense against many more years of MS tyranny may be to simply bite the bullet and move away from MS products. As with anything else, after a few years you will not even remember MS.

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xp activation[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 01:30:45 PM PDT

Yes, there are software packages that only run on windows.  That doesn't mean that they can't be ported or rewritten to run on another OS.  People just have to say that they want the software on a different OS and won't buy it till it is.

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xp activation[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 02:04:32 PM PDT

Suuuurrrrrreeeeeeeee......

...just like how Bill Gates said that once OS2 Warp had 100,000 registered users Microsoft would make a version of MS Office for it.

...I'm still waiting for my copy.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


just moved to unix[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:56:32 PM PDT

holey friggen moley thats right on. CHOICE... if you dont see what you want, and say fuck oh well I guess I have no choice, then you are not thinking things through, and being LAZY, or if you prefer sloth like. If for example you see that a game you want isn`t out for linux and resurch or ask other people to resurch the possabilaty of creating a version that works for linux ya know what that makes you? Thats right a right thinking , well rounded , positave creative intelagent person who may very well be an exelent role moddle for the children watching your every move. sorry for the run on sentinces and such...

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blue meanies[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 05:17:57 PM PDT

Hey this is all devoid of meaning to me. I'm so done with MS it's not even funny. Anyhow, rather than leaning on users to use Linux and leaning on MS to reform; the real journalistic message that needs to be delivered is this "Everyone start calling sofware and hardware vendors constantly asking for Linux drivers and software." We need to get this message out, rather than the complaining about whats happening to us. It is our my only hope of saving the PC from becoming a patsy girl to big conglomorate media companies. A role in which MS is planning on. The desktop computer is not to become a DRM Orwellian instrument of power hungry, greedy, blue meanies.

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Use Win2K[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 05:48:25 PM PDT

I bought a machine with Windows 2000 right before XP came out and I am having no problems with activation at all.  Works fine for me.

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No XP Here Either[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 06:51:35 PM PDT

My small computer network works just find running W2K. I like a lot of things I read about XP but I will continue to refuse to use it as long as possible because of the product activation requirement. It appears that the new IE7 will not work on W2K but since I use Netscape and/or Firefox, that ploy still does not motivate me to use XP. Now if Corel and Adobe products along with Quicken and Quickbooks (or suitable equivalent) plus generous support of numerous fonts coupled with plug and play support of scanners and a wide variety of printers, then I would pay whatever technical rampup is necessary to switch to Linux in a heartbeat. Corel has a "proof of concept" version of the vastly superior WordPerfect running now on Linux but has not decided whether or not to make a commitment. They have said nothing about either the rest of their office suite or their graphics suite. Adobe seems to remain moot on the Linux subject. If they provided Linux solutions for their product line, they could seriously tip the scales in the direction of Linux and already have enough industry weight to influence the entire industry. Things are moving toward Linux but without the "BIG" players getting on board with non-open source solutions, I don't see significant inroads being made on Microsoft. Now if Microsoft happens to continue with their interest in coming up with a Microsoft supported Linux version, that will most likely lead to the demise of Linux. How many dedicated world-wide open source developers will continue their altruistic development efforts for no personal monetary compensation while Microsoft uses their efforts for their own profit?

[ Reply to This ]


GPL[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 07:40:39 PM PDT

You don't understand how the GNU Licenses work. If Microsoft creates a Linux distribution they have to make the source available. Including the source to any patches they make or modules thay add. Which also have to be licensed under the GPL. That's why Microsoft hates the GPL. They can't monopolize it. And they can't break it.

If Microsoft made no changes, then they'd just have an undistinctive distribution. And if they make changes, they can't keep them proprietary. That's why the community works.



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Really?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 08:25:59 PM PDT

So Red Hat, LInspire, Novell, et.al. are in business for the fun of it? And that if Microsoft got into Linux, they wouldn't have an edge? What if their brand of Linux ran on top of windows, or windows on top of Linux? For some, that would be the best of all worlds. For others, that would be the ultimate insult.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Red Hat, etc.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Fushigi on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 05:10:08 AM PDT

The various 'professional distributions' make revenue by bundling products together (some of which may not be OSS/GPL), providing their own management tools, and more importantly, selling services & support contracts. Many corporations would never use a product without a vendor to support the product. Red Hat, etc. sell support services to these corporations.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Even worse with MSOffice activation[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 01:10:52 PM PDT

I had the same problem after putting in latest service pack for MSOffice XP. After the SP was installed, it said it had to be activated. Upon trying to activate over the internet, it said it wasn't a valid number, so I had to call. After excruciatingly trying to explain the problem to barely intelligible English-speaking "support" person, they finally reactivated the license. I asked how I'm supposed to do the SPs for the rest of the PCs in the organization, and they said I had to do them the same way, as in a separate manual phone call to India for EACH license. I told them to forget it, I'll run it w/o the SPs, and switch everyone to Openoffice instead.

[ Reply to This ]


Be Glad Microsoft Thinks You are Honest[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 02, 2005 at 04:34:12 PM PDT

Your reader's observation that nobody asked whether (s)he had a legal copy should be a happy occasion. The first time I had the mobo blues, I was accused by the Microsoft Activation Human of performing an unforgivable act of piracy -- installing the same copy of XP onto two computers. He did not press the issue when I denied his accusation, but it rankled anyway. The second time mobo blues occurred, it was on another computer; this time, my XP activated without any Microsoft Human interaction. Of course, I limit my purchases of any software that requires activation, and try to use Linux (which doesn't force me through those indignaties) whereever possible.

[ Reply to This ]


The point to it all.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#44)
by Anonymous User on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 08:16:36 PM PDT

One must consider the history of the world when it comes to topics such as this. Most cultures and religions accept that change is both inevitable and unavoidable. And generally speaking (at least in regard to most things of personal, not social, interest) this is true. But there are some things that do not change. Two of those things being politics and business. And the primary agenda to these two things: take as much as you can without getting caught or forced into a corner. Or simply put: Greed with the absence of ethics. Back in the early to mid 1990's, Microsoft made great products at exceptionally affordable prices given the cost of technology at the time. Which is why the technology spread so far and wide. It was functional, usable, and offered to people ranging from techno super geek to the computer illiterate very little trouble. Now yes, people asked for more and when that happens, costs are bound to go up and problems to arise. The more complicated you make something, the more problems there are and the longer they take to get fixed. But somewhere along the way, Microsoft abandoned the one basic ethic they should have maintained throughout their evolution, despite their greed: quality. And why did this happen? A few reasons. They either bought out or outright eliminated any possible competition (and I'm sorry to say to you fellas who support Apple so much, trust me there are fingerprints on those products too, just read all that small print on those products and do some research on the names of companies, personnel, etc. and you'll see the relationship Apple has to Microsoft). Also, because they had been so accommodating in price, Microsoft was in more homes than Apple could have hoped for. And Linux/Unix users, well, they weren't that common. At the time, the average consumer doing study when looking into computer technology for personal or business use, were given a question: Why would I want this (even though it's virtually free), when it doesn't have as many applications, tech support, or compatible software when I could buy this fully loaded Microsoft product where I can find any version of other software that would work with it with minimal trouble? Another reason why Microsoft was everywhere was how accommodating they were with government and private institutions (including but not limited to public and private schools). Many got the tech at discount and others got the tech for free. And like I said, most of the competition was being obliterated. If anyone recalls the monopoly trials of Microsoft, this was a pretty big deal, and if I remember correctly, Microsoft had a massive amount of public support. So what happened? Microsoft built an empire and an army of products and rights and intellectual property that had no rivals. And what inevitably came next? Decadence and weakness. Look at it from a businessman's perspective: Why try to create a good product at competitive prices when you're the only giant in your field and you can do whatever you want, charge whatever you want, and most don't have any alternatives? And to add onto that thought process, because you're the only one company left whose products are idiot-proof to obtain, you can charge whatever you want, regardless of whether or not it works, because there is no one else but you. And when Windows started to display universal problems (as is often referred to in the products of pop-culture(i.e. jokes, television, etc.) from those years to present), that's when people started working more and more with Linux. I've seen Linux and Linux-based programs at multiple stages of its development since I first used a computer. And the last time I looked at it, it had come a long way, almost something entirely its own. But the truth of Linux is that it's derived primarily from cloned programs. And most of those programs? Well, they were packed, sealed, and sold by Microsoft. Linux really started becoming its own when Microsoft started designing all these elaborate ways to protect their stuff from being copied, and above all, repaired by dedicated users of Linux. The real blame for this problem though falls to us. We waited, bit our lips, and didn't do much else. And what's the price we pay? Exuberant prices for sub par products because it is still, even today, too inconvenient to break away from a Microsoft-conditioned society. All programs are compatible with Microsoft, not all Microsoft programs are compatible with other operating systems (which is, by the way, the dumbest move Apple made which led to their swift decline, because while Microsoft was turning the market into the Microsoft market, Apple was hoping for consumer dedication and loyalty and refused to make their tech as compatible). And all of you who have switched or are thinking about switching to another operating system, here's your problem (and I know it is because it is the the same problem for me): you worry about all your data and files being usable on a system they weren't originally designed for, software and hardware compatibility, and software and hardware availability. And the truth is, you're right. Not all the stuff that is sold, much less the stuff you have on your computer, is going to work on a different operating system. Linux would be the best choice and the most friendly to someone coming off of Microsoft products (although the operating system on Apple is so efficient you can run 30 applications on it without using even 50% of the CPU (which most Windows users know would more than likely throw their CPU beyond a 100% and force the computer to freeze and an inevitable shutdown to ensue before their fans run so hard they burn out and the hardware begins to melt...literally)). Linux is still the most compatible and the most free (both monetarily and in usage and adaptability) despite Apple's jumps towards something similar by leaps and bounds. But the biggest trouble with Linux: this is still a programmer's operating system, despite it's increasing ability to be used by the common human being. But the problem with it: because it's mostly free, updates are slow in coming, little tweaks and so on could cause it not to work, and there isn't a great amount of tech support to go with it. No one can pay an army of people for programming and tech support with little to no income coming in for it, versus Microsoft who can not only afford that army, but can afford people who can pretend they do those two things well. The point to all this is to answer the question about Microsoft's interesting strides in "improving" their EULA approvals, etc. Why are they doing it? Because they can and they know it. That's why, and there isn't much else to it. And more than likely, they will stop approving OEM's for earlier versions too. Like the government, if they can force you to pay a tax on something, they will, and you'll do it because what else are you going to do? Microsoft is betting the same way the government does: that you'll do nothing, because the odds are too high in their favor, not yours, and any attempt to change things seems to be an insurmountable hill that would appear from our perspective to be extremely costly without much chance of success. My friends, George Orwell was right. It is more than 20 years late and not exactly has he explained it, but we are moving closer and closer to a "1984" society. In business, like government, it comes down to whose in charge and who'd better fall in line. Read up on Microsoft ideas for the future, and just how much more they want to involve themselves in anything that will make them a lot more money. And then think of ways that they can police it and secure it and make you pay for it. And you know what? They already thought of it. And so long as they do it slowly and progressively, we all will, shall and even now do just tolerate it. I'm sorry for this being so long, some of my ranting, and some of my opinions obviously being stated, but one can really say that anything I've said is untrue or that it doesn't fit the (allbeit) circumstancial evidence. "To understand the devil in others, one must understand the devil in one's own self." - An unknown writer. Just think of the worst things you could imagine yourself doing if you were in the shoes of the people in charge of Microsoft because you knew you could get away with it. And compare what you can do (and to those of you who cling to their morality and honor, just try to imagine that those have been worn away when you attempt this exercise) to what has actually been going on now. You might see a pattern. The worst you can think of, you can probably assume is what they are doing.

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power leveling[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#48)
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wowgold[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#49)
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