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Reader Voices: Commercial Viewing

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 02:32:42 AM PDT

Will DRM one day force us to watch TV commercials? My speculation in a recent story that the broadcast flag and other copy protection initiatives could take us in that direction prompted some interesting discussion from readers.


Many readers pointed out that DVD publishers already often require customers to view their ads or promos before they can view the content they paid to see. "The practice of forcing purchasers of DVD's to watch ads/previews/logos is extremely annoying," wrote one reader. "Paramount DVDs are especially bad in that you have to wait for the opening logo to come up before you can choose main menu or movie. Fox DVDs show a bunch of warnings on a red background, but at least you can quickly chapter-skip through them. Fortunately, tools like AnyDVD or DVD Decrypter can remove those restrictions. It's the next generation of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray that I'm concerned with. It will be awhile before the copy protection technologies are broken on those. So, there's going to be all kinds of forced ads/logos/previews on them. Hopefully, consumers will revolt against the practice and refuse to buy them, but I'm not holding my breath on that happening."

And it might not just be television commercials we're forced to watch. "Will the movie theaters lock their doors at the start of the commercials and force us to watch 20 minutes of ads before the movie starts?" another reader wrote. "Will the magazine advertisers force us to read all their print ads in order to read the articles? Consumers willingly pay for one thing, but are forced to take or view other content as well ... even content that may be offending to them. Where does this end?"

Another reader had an answer for that question: "Where does it end? When to view a DVD, webpage, etc., you must first view an ad, and then correctly answer a brief, computer-administered 'reading comprehension' test that proves you viewed the ad instead of leaving the room, skipping it, or having your browser block it somehow."

After noting the popularity of HDTV devices that are not yet broadcast-flag compatible and industry efforts to even restrict analog devices, one reader started looking at his old equipment in a new light. "I recently tossed three old VCRs because they were broken, and with the cost of repairs so much higher than the cost of a replacement unit, figured it wasn't worth the effort," he wrote. me. "I am beginning to think I made a mistake. Do you suppose my old 2X CD drive that I got with my Mac in 1998 might be worth something after all?"

Maybe so. In fact, I'm wondering if it might not be a good idea to hold on to any pre DRM-era TV sets, DVD players, CD drives, Tivo or other DVRs, hard drives, motherboards, and versions of Windows and other software that don't have to activated. What do you think? Write me at Foster@gripe2ed.com or post your comments below.

< Copying California Law Isn't Enough to Stop the Next ChoicePoint | Fair EULA, Beta Version >


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Reader Voices: Commercial Viewing | 15 comments (15 topical) | Post A Comment
Keeping those ol' digital devices[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by dblevins on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 12:31:22 PM PDT

We better think about doing same - look at the price you can now get for the "unfederated" toilets that use a full flush (now "illegal)="). Those non-flagged digital devices will be valueable in the future !!

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There has to be a box to get rid of the flags...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 11:22:58 PM PDT

I just bought a Toshiba D-VR3 DVD-recorder/VCR and it enforces DRM flags from TV signals on what I can do with what I record...

But I wonder... Since I have a simple RCA composite video/audio signal going into it from my cable box, aren't there any (illegal?--who knows...) pass-thru devices that I could easily hook up between the composite video output of my cable box and the input on the recorder? After all, how hard is it to null-out, er, I mean filter-out (since it's analog) such a signal?

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Box[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 02:52:51 AM PDT

There used to be available a small box that connected between 2 vcr's that would effecively strip out the macrovision protection, don't know if this is still around. I've heard a bit more recently of products called time-based correctors that would do the same thing.

Look at this page: http://www.videoguys.com/sima.htm

On your Toshiba DVD/VCR what do you mean by enforcing DRM flags? I don't doubt it prevents copying pre-recorded VHS movies to DVD, but what else does it stop you from doing?

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Stripping Macrovision[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 03:10:44 PM PDT

I know we have one. They disappeared for a while but I think the local Ultimate Electronics has them now.

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Not the same thing...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 03:40:58 PM PDT

My parents have the VCR copy box... The box, which plugs into the wall basically "evens-out" the picture, so you don't get the fluctuations or lines in the copy. It works well...

As for the copy-protection on the D-VR3, it apparently comes down in the video signal. From the D-VR3 manual:

Broadcasts that contain copy control signals may have one of the following three signal types, Copy-Free, Copy-Once and Copy-Never. If you want to record a copy-once type program, use DVD-RW with CPRM in VR Mode and DVDRAM.
[...]
Once "Copy Once" has been recorded, additional recording cannot be performed.
(Toshiba should have people who speech much better English rite its manuals). My question is, since what's coming down is an analog signal, how hard would it be to filter out these copy control signals? The recorder has to assume if there's no such signal that it's "copy-free".....

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reviews [ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#42)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 03:23:52 AM PDT

<h1>flounders superficially!Oneida microcomputers intelligibility . </h1>

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Is it worth it?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 06:00:21 AM PDT

I can only wonder if the cost of such copy protection is worth the expense. Piracy pro will beat it anyway and paying customers are frustrated by it.

It's becoming a war between fair use and supposed free speech. The companies seem to believe the right to free speech include the right to captive audience.

JR

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DRM and "Forced Commercial Viewing"[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 08:10:46 AM PDT

They can only force you to view the commercials if they force you to watch the show in the first place. Hit the off button.

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You gotta fight ... for your right ...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by trashpicker on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 10:27:05 AM PDT

2 things relevant to this discussion:

1. NYC Councilwoman Wants Correct Movie Times
In short, she wants Moviehouses to publish the actual movie start times, not the time that "The Twenty" starts. I think she's fabulous, but am shocked that she doesn't enjoy "The Twenty" as it seems sponsors intend..?

2. TiVo users might have heard that certain shows have been flagged and they're unable to skip through commercials or ffwd through the content. Article here. This is really, really bad for Digital Cable/PVR users (though I'm still on analog/TiVo so they can't control me just yet).

Advertisers and media outlets will shove as much advertising down our throats as we accept. I think the idea of forcing theaters to publish the real movie times is great - perhaps a groundswell to get this happening locally would send a clear message?

Regarding the TiVo problem, I always advocate staying on analog cable as long as possible. I have been privvy to many Comcast conversations directed at "how can we get everyone on digital so that we can use all that bandwidth for other services?" Problem, in my opinion, is that Comcast and most other cable providers are charging MORE for Digital, when in reality they should be charging LESS, since it opens up the spectrum for other services. I call this "analog squatting," or "I'm not going to digital until it's cheaper or they force me." Sadly, they've been doing just that in my market - I've recently had 2 colleagues "get the call" from Comcast that they MUST switch to digital (tho they sweeten the deal with discount rates for the first year).

In addition, I've recently been privvy to conversations on IPTV, which is some very exciting technology that will hopefully smash Comcast's monopoly and enable cheaper services to customers - but the flipside is that since ALL the content is digital they'll be able to tag and flag shows to hold viewers captive to commercials. Keep your eyes open for developments.



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Force us to go digital[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 11:09:01 AM PDT

My comment to Cox Cable was that they will not force me to go to digital cable, because when it gets to that point I will just go to satellite instead. Needless to say, they weren't happy with that! I am now checking out the Dish TV service

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Satellite is digital[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Fushigi on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 05:29:43 AM PDT

All satellite services are digital and can have the same 'features'.

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Right![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 08, 2005 at 05:33:56 PM PDT

I totally agree.

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wslaat[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous User on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:34:00 PM PDT

لعبة طرزان لعبة طرزان لعبة قتال اشباح لعبة قتال اشباح لعبة الخوف لعبة الخوف لعبة عمل الشوربه لعبة عمل الشوربه لعبة الفتي الشجاع لعبة الفتي الشجاع لعبة فريق العمل لعبة فريق العمل لعبة باور رينجر لعبة باور رينجر لعبة الكرة الشقية لعبة الكرة الشقية لعبة التزلج لعبة التزلج لعبة الولد التنين لعبة الولد التنين لعبة البنت الشقية لعبة البنت الشقية لعبة طرزان الجديدة لعبة طرزان الجديدة لعبة معركة باور رينجر لعبة معركة باور رينجر لعبة الكابتن الطائر لعبة الكابتن الطائر لعبة التنين الامريكي لعبة التنين الامريكي لعبة قتال الولد التنين لعبة قتال الولد التنين لعبة سيارات الفضاء لعبة سيارات الفضاء لعبة فتيات القوة لعبة فتيات القوة لعبة الرجل الالي لعبة الرجل الالي لعبة دراجات لعبة دراجات لعبة الكلب الوفي لعبة الكلب الوفي لعبة تصوير الحديقة لعبة تصوير الحديقة لعبة ميكي ماوس لعبة ميكي ماوس لعبةالكوتشينة لعبةالكوتشينة لعبة عائلة والت ديزني لعبة عائلة والت ديزني لعبة مدرسة بطوط لعبة مدرسة بطوط لعبة الدولفين لعبة الدولفين لعبة العروسة الشقية لعبة العروسة الشقية لعبة قوة باور رينجير لعبة قوة باور رينجير لعبة بووه يجمع العسل لعبة بووه يجمع العسل لعبة الغناء لعبة الغناء لعبة بطوطة لعبة بطوطة لعبة صانع الهمبرجر لعبة صانع الهمبرجر لعبة عائلة كوالا لعبة عائلة كوالا لعبة خريطة الكنز لعبة خريطة الكنز لعبة الغواص لعبة الغواص لعبة كرة القدم الذكية لعبة كرة القدم الذكية لعبة الكابتن هوكز لعبة الكابتن هوكز لعبة مصارعه حره لعبة مصارعه حره لعبة الكرة الملونة لعبة الكرة الملونة لعبة السيرك لعبة السيرك لعبة التصويب لعبة التصويب لعبة الطبق الطائر لعبة الطبق الطائر لعبة التحدي لعبة التحدي لعبة ورقه الشجر لعبة ورقه الشجر لعبة حمام السباحه لعبة حمام السباحه لعبة التزحلق علي الجليد لعبة التزحلق علي الجليد لعبة المدرسه لعبة المدرسه لعبة البولينج لعبة البولينج لعبة كره السله لعبة كره السله لعبة ترتيب اشكال لعبة ترتيب اشكال

[ Reply to This ]


wslaat[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#44)
by Anonymous User on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:34:28 PM PDT

لعبة طرزان لعبة طرزان لعبة قتال اشباح لعبة قتال اشباح لعبة الخوف لعبة الخوف لعبة عمل الشوربه لعبة عمل الشوربه لعبة الفتي الشجاع لعبة الفتي الشجاع لعبة فريق العمل لعبة فريق العمل لعبة باور رينجر لعبة باور رينجر لعبة الكرة الشقية لعبة الكرة الشقية لعبة التزلج لعبة التزلج لعبة الولد التنين لعبة الولد التنين لعبة البنت الشقية لعبة البنت الشقية لعبة طرزان الجديدة لعبة طرزان الجديدة لعبة معركة باور رينجر لعبة معركة باور رينجر لعبة الكابتن الطائر لعبة الكابتن الطائر لعبة التنين الامريكي لعبة التنين الامريكي لعبة قتال الولد التنين لعبة قتال الولد التنين لعبة سيارات الفضاء لعبة سيارات الفضاء لعبة فتيات القوة لعبة فتيات القوة لعبة الرجل الالي لعبة الرجل الالي لعبة دراجات لعبة دراجات لعبة الكلب الوفي لعبة الكلب الوفي لعبة تصوير الحديقة لعبة تصوير الحديقة لعبة ميكي ماوس لعبة ميكي ماوس لعبةالكوتشينة لعبةالكوتشينة لعبة عائلة والت ديزني لعبة عائلة والت ديزني لعبة مدرسة بطوط لعبة مدرسة بطوط لعبة الدولفين لعبة الدولفين لعبة العروسة الشقية لعبة العروسة الشقية لعبة قوة باور رينجير لعبة قوة باور رينجير لعبة بووه يجمع العسل لعبة بووه يجمع العسل لعبة الغناء لعبة الغناء لعبة بطوطة لعبة بطوطة لعبة صانع الهمبرجر لعبة صانع الهمبرجر لعبة عائلة كوالا لعبة عائلة كوالا لعبة خريطة الكنز لعبة خريطة الكنز لعبة الغواص لعبة الغواص لعبة كرة القدم الذكية لعبة كرة القدم الذكية لعبة الكابتن هوكز لعبة الكابتن هوكز لعبة مصارعه حره لعبة مصارعه حره لعبة الكرة الملونة لعبة الكرة الملونة لعبة السيرك لعبة السيرك لعبة التصويب لعبة التصويب لعبة الطبق الطائر لعبة الطبق الطائر لعبة التحدي لعبة التحدي لعبة ورقه الشجر لعبة ورقه الشجر لعبة حمام السباحه لعبة حمام السباحه لعبة التزحلق علي الجليد لعبة التزحلق علي الجليد لعبة المدرسه لعبة المدرسه لعبة البولينج لعبة البولينج لعبة كره السله لعبة كره السله لعبة ترتيب اشكال لعبة ترتيب اشكال

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dawfd[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
by samezhen on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:18:17 PM PDT

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