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How Trusty is Industry Self-Regulation of Privacy?

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 12:35:47 AM PDT

It seems to me that last week's on-again, off-again cancellation of the "TRUST-E" privacy certification for FreeiPods.com has left us with quite a few unanswered questions. Such as, just what did FreeiPods and parent company Gratis Networks do to get Trust-e to take action? Shouldn't Trust-e be giving more details to those who put faith in their seal about what Gratis may have done with their personal information? Oh, and even if the seal is permanently taken away from one obvious bad actor, what about the others who still have it?


Last Wednesday Trust-e, an industry-sponsored Internet privacy certification group, announced that FreeIpods.com and other Gratis websites had lost the right to display the Trust-e seal. Trust-e said it must keep confidential exactly what FreeiPods had done, but did say that the problems involved children's privacy and material changes Gratis made in its use of the personal information it collects without proper notice to customers.

By Friday, however, Trust-e had changed its tune somewhat, saying that Gratis had "agreed to finalize its compliance" with the Trust-e program. What this means also isn't exactly clear, although Gratis officials have suggested the only thing Trust-e really wants is some training fees. But for the time being, at least, FreeiPods.com has not regained its Trust-e seal.

Since Trust-e seems a little more concerned with protecting Gratis' privacy -- and its own -- then telling FreeiPod users what may have happened to their personal information, it's a little difficult to know just how seriously we should take all this. But Trust-e has rarely revoked its certification, bending over backwards in some cases to let its sponsors keep their seals. Certainly the fact that children's privacy was one of issues involved suggests it's not a trivial case. And when you look at FreeIpod.com privacy policy, you also have to wonder about the material changes that were made. After all, anyone signing up for FreeiPods.com was already on notice that:

"We may work with other third party businesses using the personal information that you supply to us on the main signup page to bring selected retail opportunities to our members via direct mail, email and telemarketing. These businesses may include providers of direct marketing services and applications, including lookup and reference, data enhancement, suppression and validation and email marketing."

In other words, it doesn't seem like the change in practices that Trust-e found objectionable could be the fact that signing up with Gratis is going to lead to more junk mail, spam, and telemarketing calls. That was always part of the business plan, and anyone who signs up with any of these freebie pyramid schemes should realize it. But perhaps they didn't because they saw that Trust-e seal on the FreeIpods web page and thought it meant more than it does.

As an organization aimed at industry self-regulation of privacy, Trust-e certifies that the company follows its stated privacy policy. It doesn't, however, certify that the practices outlined in that policy are necessarily all that nice. Scan the list of Trust-e seal-holders and, among the industry giants, you'll also see various spyware and foistware creeps. Among the names on the list I recognized from things I've written or read are WhenU, Ezula, Reservation Rewards, and Webloyalty. But, however much we may deplore what some of these companies do, you can be pretty certain they aren't breaking any privacy laws, if for no other reason than the fact that the laws protecting our privacy are so pathetically weak that it's awfully hard to violate them.

Trust-E is what it is, so I'm not sure it's fair to expect it to be able to rein in all the bad actors whose privacy policies state perfectly clearly what they intend to do with the information you foolishly let them collect. Which makes the question of why Trust-e felt compelled to remove the Gratis Networks seal all the more intriguing. And it also raises an even more important question: can we leave it to industry to regulate its own Internet privacy practices?

< Upgrading Isn't Always the Best Act | Battle Lines Being Drawn >


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How Trusty is Industry Self-Regulation of Privacy? | 15 comments (15 topical) | Post A Comment
Privacy?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Mason on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 09:15:50 AM PDT

I think you can drop the word "Internet" from your last sentence.  As for privacy, I don't think it exists anymore.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6969799/


[ Reply to This ]



MSNBC article[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Wed Feb 16, 2005 at 09:09:03 AM PDT

That's a very disturbing article in more than one way.  Ed, you might considering writing a piece on ChoicePoint and the information stolen.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


More on Choicepoint....[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Mason on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 12:54:37 AM PDT

http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/17/technology/personaltech/choicepoint/

Just keeps getting better.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Security?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 01:12:59 PM PDT

Their security (or lack of it) isn't the problem here. Their very existence is the problem here. They sell this information. Anyone with the cashola can buy it from them. I'm not even sure how it is that these "criminals" in those news reports are being distinguished from the "legitimate clients". Maybe they didn't pay up when they got the bill? The point is, if someone's selling this personal info to any tom, dick, or harry that strolls in with enough cash on hand, then that's the security hole. And if it's not just any tom, dick, or harry, it's still a security hole plus they're practising discrimination. :P These are the sorts of companies that pushed recently for an expansion of copyright law to cover compilations of not-individually-copyrightable works, i.e. databases of someone else's addresses and such. What we need instead is EU style law that makes personally identifiable information belong to whoever it personally identifies, and they have the rights and can demand any other party purge their copies of such information, not distribute it, and so forth.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


truste[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 03:20:32 PM PDT

From what I've heard in the online marketing industry is that Truste is nothing more than a marketing gimmick, an incredible difficult company to work with, and does very little to affect privacy of consumers. As far as Gratis, it sounds like they refused to pay for training (whatever that is), and chose not to work with Tuste anymore. Truste probably reacted and went on the offensive. Their whole reputation as a needed certification was probably on the line, and lashed out at Gratis. Whatever the case, privacy was probably at the bottom of the list in prioroties for either company, as far as their press releases were concerned. Gratis has always had a good reputation in the industry with privacy, and being and above board company. This whole episode brings into question Truste's role in the industry and whether they are a valid certifier of websites, or simply a money-driven group looking out for their own reputation.

[ Reply to This ]


pyramid scheme[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 09:43:52 PM PDT

My understanding from others who've looked into it, and from my own brief perusal of the site a while back, is that freeipods.com is essentially a pyramid scheme.

Whether that has anything to do with the trust-e situation, I have no idea.

[ Reply to This ]



Trust-E is a joke....[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Wed Feb 16, 2005 at 06:07:29 AM PDT

Trust-E doesn't police their members in an adequate fashion, not by a long shot.  They are also far too wishy-washy in putting the hammer down on the companies that they manage to catch in the act.  

Seeing the Trust-E symbol on a web site shouldn't really mean a thing.  Sadly, most computer users are clueless and think they are being protected.  

[ Reply to This ]



Privacy?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by dwkinsey on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 08:56:49 AM PDT

Privacy? What privacy? I think Trust-e is useless and so is self-regulation. I would very much like to get more information on ChoicePoint--like how I can get my personal information removed from their database before it gets stolen.

[ Reply to This ]


Very simple - you can't.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 04:01:23 PM PDT

You cannot remove this information from Choicepoint or even limit access to it. Better yet (or worse for us) are the Patriot Act of 2001 and the Intelligence Reform Act of 2005 and the power that these Acts allow the Government and businesses wield. You can kiss your anonymous life and lifestyle as well as your privacy goodbye.

It may be too late to undo the damage done by "right-thinking" people. You'll know its too late when you get a US Drivers license rather than a state license, passports will need to be used when traveling from state to state, and your US ID will be required to deal with the Government.

Oh! What am I saying? These may have already come to pass!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Thank heavens...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 09:32:59 PM PDT

Thank heavens Canada and the EU still have some levelheaded left-thinking people in public office, at least.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Lychee[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
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silent kiiler[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
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[ Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by maderikapapa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:29:05 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


rt[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
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