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Perpetual Licensing Mysteries at McAfee

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Nov 14, 2005 at 08:47:36 AM PDT

For years we've been hearing stories from readers who encounter a puzzling phenomena concerning McAfee licensing. McAfee sales reps have this mysterious tendency to discover that the customer's paid-up licenses have disappeared.

"What the heck is going on with McAfee licensing?" a reader wrote recently. "I bought a perpetual license to Total Virus Defense Suite two years ago. The perpetual license is supposed to cover me indefinitely -- that's what perpetual means. The only thing required is an annual support fee to enable the continued downloading of updates and upgrades."

But now that McAfee has now changed the name of the suite to Active Virus Defense, the reader was informed by a McAfee sales rep that he must license all the products anew. "All McAfee did was change the name of the suite - the products that make up the new suite are the same ones I am already using," the reader wrote. "But he said that my perpetual license only covered me 'for the life of the product.' What I couldn't get him to understand is that the products themselves are still the same ones, so I should only have to pay to renew my support contract. Unfortunately, the somewhat less than intelligent folks who answer the phones at McAfee don't seem to understand their own licensing."

A perpetual license that only lasts until the software company changes the name of the product certainly doesn't seem very perpetual. "This whole situation is ridiculous," the reader wrote. "What is the point of buying a perpetual license if it expires? Why should I pay for a new license for the exact same products I am already using?"

The reader decided the only thing to do was to find a better source of information about McAfee licensing than McAfee. "I called CDW and they had their licensing specialist look into it," the reader wrote. "They said that my existing McAfee perpetual license is still good, and all I need to do is renew my support contract. What is ridiculous about the whole thing is that you can't get correct information from the sales reps at McAfee. This is true for other vendors as well. The people who are supposed to have the answers usually don't. I get tired of having to waste time on the phone trying to figure out the latest licensing nonsense. If I hadn't, however, I would have ended up paying for licenses I did not need."

< EULAs and DRM Make Ugly Music Together | Reader Voices: Rights Deactivation >

Perpetual Licensing Mysteries at McAfee | 19 comments (19 topical) | Post A Comment

McAfee's been a mess for years...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 14, 2005 at 09:47:47 AM PDT

At this point, I don't recommend McAfee. To anyone. Their home products are a mess, their corporate products are average (better options are available), their customer service is a joke, and I haven't visited their website in a long time, but it used to be one huge rash of popups advertising their programs (which is why I haven't gone there in a long time...you want me to buy your software? Don't annoy the heck out of me). I truly think that a lot of their survival comes from bundling agreements with vendors such as Dell and Comcast. In the corporate world, Symantec AV Corporate Edition (currently at version 10) is a great program with a small memory footprint, easy to work with and manage. At the home level, free programs such as Avast! Antivirus (I no longer recommend Norton, their 2006 version is more bloated than it needs to be), free firewalls from ZoneLabs, Kerio, Sygate, and XP's built-in one offer other options. There's simply no good reason to spend money on an average product any more when better ones are available for free.

[ Reply to This ]

AVG (again) for Networks[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by wantobe on Tue Nov 15, 2005 at 03:06:25 AM PDT

There's also no need to pay for Symantec's overpriced Enterprise edition. Though it's admittedly much better than the home product, it's still bloated and overrated. AVG for corporate desktops and servers is every bit as good (if not better), and costs much, much less.

But there are other products that are better (though the price difference isn't as compelling.) There's no need whatsoever to ever give Symantec or McAfee money again.

Rob Miles
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Mo Money Foo'[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 14, 2005 at 05:06:04 PM PDT

Poor service and mediocre products--who knew? Well, those who used to work there, that's who. You'd be surprised on how little energy is spent developing better products. It's all about feeding the bottom line at Mc-a-FEE. They don't care about customer support. They downsized, sold off unwanted business chunks, re-named (escape from a bad rep with the SEC) and "relocated" people (AKA fire without benefits). During all this cost-cutting, they popped 7 million dollars in three days for their sales team's club getaway. That works out to five thousand dollars per person, per day. Keep paying those fees and buying more licenses, oh yeah. Muhahaha.

[ Reply to This ]

Why did the reader stay with Mcafee?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 14, 2005 at 05:58:01 PM PDT

It sounds like the company was trying to sucker him into an expensive upgrade. Yet, he still uses Mcafee products? Why? If any company pulled that kind of tactic with me, I would drop them the very same day.

Of course, us Linux folks don't touch Mcafee with a 10ft pole anyway...but I'm just sayin' :)

[ Reply to This ]

Leaving Mcafee[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 15, 2005 at 01:42:08 PM PDT

After purchasing my last AV and finding out that it would not activate (their support told me the code on the jacket was invalid), I decided right then and there that was the last purchase I would be making from them. The purchase had been made at Best Buy so I'm pretty confident that the code was valid. I had previously had a similar problem but had then assumed I had already used it once and I knew this time that was not the case as it was fresh out of the shrinkwrap. Sooner or later I hope they figure it out, but it is too late for me. I have enough hassles keeping my 5 home systems running smoothly - no small chore with teenagers in the house. I don't have the time to hassle with software that won't install out of the box.

[ Reply to This ]

McA-FEE[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 16, 2005 at 05:52:41 AM PDT

Oh stop whining and just PAY McAfee !! Running and supporting a Virus program is expensive, especially as McAfee has to continually update their virus definitions,....how could McAfee have foreseen that ??? And don't forget the millions of dollars they have to pay out anually to their top executives. Same thing would apply to my car. I have a Chevy Blazer, and since General Motors discontinued that model....I no longer have a valid warranty, or license to drive it !! Right ???.......opps Ok...so maybe that is a bad comparison.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Did you even read his post?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by sconeu on Wed Nov 16, 2005 at 07:59:45 AM PDT

He *DID* pay McAfee. He bought <B>shrinkwrapped product</B> off the shelf and <B>it wouldn't activate</B>. What else would you have him do?

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States of America.
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Previous post[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by joseten on Wed Nov 16, 2005 at 09:51:09 AM PDT

I believe the previous poster was being sarcastic

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

pasing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#68)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

if anyone is interested in the truth..[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Thetruth on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 03:01:12 AM PDT

Hi, I work for McAfee in the US on the commercial side, these comments are mine and I am not representing my employer here but I feel compelled to correct some of the misleading or simply wrong things that have been said.

Point 1 - McAfee don't know what A perpetual license means.

A perpetual license is precisely what the name implies, it is the right to own the software that is licensed perpetually, it is not the right to own other software outside of the license. TVD or Total Virus Defence is an un-managed suite - by that I mean there is no central management - updating is done by Virus Scan. AVD or Active Virus defence is a managed suite - containing the additional value of a product called ePolicy Orchestrator or 'ePO' - so the question is sould somoene who has paid for TVD be given the extra componants that are in AVD for free? Obviously not - if you own a BMW 3 series would it be reasonable to expect a free upgrade to a 5 series?

The truth is that McAfee have a migration route from TVD to AVD - this is at a fractional cost of the full suite and is intended to add the value of ePO to the TVD suite at a reasonable cost whithout forcing the client to pay out a whole bunch of money to duplicate what they own already - fair enough?

If you are not getting a straight answer out of your McAfee rep then ask to speak with his/her manager we try our best but we are after all human and error is a human trait. What we are NOT is dishonest.

Point 2 - AV is AV I would urge everyone to take a look at the excellent paper on Essential Trends and Dynamics of the Endpoint Security Industry http://www.zeltser.com/endpoint-security-trends

The report quite nicely gives an insight on the dificulties facing the smaller AV companies - IT security is as someone alluded to a very research and bandwidth intensive business and the bars to entry are very high - AVG was mentioned as one AV product that is free for personal use, the difficulty that Grisoft have is that it costs lots of $$'s to innovate and develop a product that is effective against threats these days and to put it quite simply AVD is not that well developed - I would challange anyone who has been running AVG for a length of time to install one of the big 3 - McAfee, Norton or Trend and take a look at what is found - 9 times out of 10 there will be something significant that AVG missed. Additionally all of the big AV companies offer free virus removers without any registration or cost. A very well respected AV testing outfit is the university of magdeburg in Germany http://www.av-test.org/ they will give a very detailed (perhaps a little too detailed) view on the performance of the top 20 AV products on the market.

Point 3 - $7 million on a sales getaway? Come on this is just simply untrue, the truth is actualy the other way around there is such a massive drive to reduce costs to reach the profit targets we have given to Wall street that we are having to forgoe a lot of the usual expenses and tighten our belts enormously - I can unequivebly state there is no $7 million sales junket.

Point 4 - us Linux folks don't touch McAfee with a bargepole.

Rubbish - there was so much demand for Linux support we developed a product 'Linux Shield' specifically for that platform. By the way I don't have an axe to grind but anyone who doesn't believe that Linux, Macs etc have security pronlems should take a look at Secunia.com XX

[ Reply to This ]

Try your challenge yourself[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 08:20:58 AM PDT

After running McAfee, Norton etc. for any length of time, run AVG, Kaspersky, etc. and see what you find! I did & that is why I no longer have AV from Symantec. It misses as many viruses as the small companies offerings, it just costs a lot more to miss them.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

<em>f</em>G<em>f</em>�[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#58)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

McAfee[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 05:45:35 PM PDT

I had McAfee on 45 desktops at a client law firm. I was rewarded by all of my shared printers being rendered non-functional, having to pay tech support $25.00 to have them blame Microsoft and after getting past the first tech guy, being told that they were aware of the problem and were working on it (I found out a few days later that they had been saying that for 6 months). So every hour or so I had to have the users go into their printer spool folder and delete any temporary files that caused the problem. But final straw was that 3 months before my site license expired, the users were getting pop-ups several times a day asking for a credit card number to renew the virus subscription. Nice try on the Fear/Uncertainty/Disaster ploy for going with a "small" company, but AVG's product has been flawless on the 10 servers and 300 desktops I support.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

McAfee[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 06:00:58 PM PDT

This is from the report you referenced at www.zeltser.com/

"Although smaller competitors have reduced prices to attempt to gain market share, Symantec and McAfee have always maintained similar pricing. In fact, by expanding product SKUs and entering into a service payment model, the vendors have actually considerably increased the prices they command for their products. For example, Symantec has managed to increase average product prices by approximately 25% for the last several years."

How about this scenario... More SKU's + higher prices and there is still belt tightning. Sounds like loss of marketshare to me.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

AVG vs. Trend[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 22, 2005 at 03:38:16 PM PDT

You stated 9 times out of 10, Symantec/McAfee/Trend will find things that AVG misses. I use AVG Personal (free edition). I just did a full Trend "housecall" scan on my PC. It found nothing on my PC that AVG missed except for a few inconsequential "tracking" cookies. I guess I'm the other 1 in 10? Or maybe AVG isn't as bad as you think it is.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#70)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

um, keep on spewing...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 21, 2005 at 08:05:59 AM PDT

It was called Presidents Club, and yeah, it was 7 million bucks for a three-day event. I got it straight from the events person running it, pal. Her house is probably being stormed by the McAfreak secret police as I write this. I also heard of a nice little slush fund that the e-staff have there. Keep on talking and so will I.

[ Reply to This ]

lychee[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#67)
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silent killer[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#69)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:41:09 PM PDT

لعبة قتال صعبة لعبه قتال صعبه لعبة ترتيب الغرف لعبه ترتيب الغرفة لعبة نينجا صعبة لعبه نينجا صعبه لعبة صعبة لعبة صعبه جدا لعبة تزيين فلفه لعبه فلفه للبنات لعبة سباق سيارات ودراجات سباق سيارات دراجات لعبة ترتيب وتلويين الغرف ترتيب تلوين غرف لعبة ترتيب حمام فلفه ترتيب حمام فلفة لعبة سيارات ودراجات لعبه سيارات دراجات لعبة بوش السكران لعبه بوش السكران لعبة تحدي سيارات ودراجات تحدي سيارات دراجات لعبة بوش المحارب لعبه بوش المحارب لعبة البحث عن الرجل الخفي لعبه الرجل الخفي لعبة الرجل الخفي مغامرات الرجل الخفي لعبة بوش محارب الارهاب بوش محارب الارهاب لعبة الرجل الخفي الآسطوره الرجل الخفي الآسطوره لعبة طلاء الآظافر لعبه طلاء الآظافر لعبة تكسير الكعب لعبة تكسير الكعب لعبة قبضه التنين لعبة قبضه التنين لعبة انتصار قبضه التنين لعبة انتصار قبضه التنين لعبة التنين المحارب لعبه التنين المحارب لعبة مغامرات سكوبي دو لعبة مغامرات سكوبي دو لعبة سكوبي دو لعبة سكوبي دو لعبة الغاز سكوبي دو لعبة الغاز سكوبي دو لعبة بوش السكران لعبة بوش السكران لعبة رقص بوش السكران لعبة رقص بوش السكران لعبة مغامرات ميجا مان لعبة مغامرات ميجا مان لعبة ميجا مان لعبة ميجا مان لعبة ميجا مان المحارب لعبة ميجا مان المحارب لعبة طيارات لعبة طيارات لعبة حرب طيارات لعبة حرب طيارات لعبة حرب طيارات هليكوبتر لعبة حرب طيارات هليكوبتر لعبة حرب طيارات لعبة حرب طيارات لعبة وحش البحيره لعبة وحش البحيره لعبة هروب وحش البحيره لعبة هروب وحش البحيره لعبة وحش البحيره المحارب لعبة وحش البحيره المحارب لعبة منشه ذباب صينيه لعبة منشه ذباب صينيه لعبة مطاعم صينيه لعبة مطاعم صينيه لعبة صينيه لعبة صينيه لعبة بنت صينيه لعبة بنت صينيه لعبة استقلال فلسطين لعبة استقلال فلسطين لعبة حرب فلسطين لعبة حرب فلسطين لعبة فلسطين لعبة فلسطين لعبة حمام باربي لعبة حمام باربي لعبة مهمه سريه لعبة مهمه سريه لعبة سريه لعبة سريه لعبة سريه للغاية لعبة سريه للغاية لعبة الجنود الضاحكون لعبة الجنود الضاحكون لعبة الضاحكون لعبة الضاحكون لعبة قتل الضاحكون لعبة قتل الضاحكون

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