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A Gas of a License

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Oct 03, 2005 at 09:17:11 AM PDT

Since we've seen restrictive license agreements attached to everything from woodworking tools to tropical fish, there seems to be no limit as to what kind of product can be licensed, not sold. That's what one reader concluded when he discovered a EULA on a CO2 container used for making homebrewed soda drinks.


"I received an ad from a company called Sodaclub.com which sells a device to carbonate water and provides associated supplies," the reader wrote. "The idea is to make your own carbonated drinks and save money as well as the environment by reusing the containers. I was calculating what the actual savings would be to see if it was worth it when I noticed that there is a EULA associated with the containers of carbon dioxide. This licensing of everything has gone too far -- when will it stop?"

The Alco2Jet 110 "Carbonator" license says that the container remains the property of Sodaclub, even though it's a necessary part of the soda-making set-up the customer buys. By opening the valve seal on the original Carbonator container shipped with one's soda maker, the customer becomes bound to the terms, including:

"You may hold and use this Alco2Jet Carbonator in a suitable home soda maker until empty or for a maximum period of 5 years, whichever is the sooner and then it must be returned by the holder without delay in good condition to Sold-Club USA, Inc. or to one of its authorized retailers ... Any misuse of the Alco2Jet Carbonator including, inter alia, defacement or removal of any of the trade marks applied on it or its labels, its sale, rental, lending, leasing, abandonment, alienating or refilling will automatically entitle the Carbonator Owner or its representative to the immediate right of possession and unconditional return of it without any payment or reimbursement by the Carbonator owner."

All that for a canister of gas to make soda pop? The requirement to return the device after five years even if it's not used up is particularly interesting, since elsewhere on the website customers are encouraged to buy extra containers as the CO2 "will remain fresh and usable indefinitely." But the real purpose of the EULA is obviously to make re-filling the containers by anyone other than Sodaclub a violation of the license.

If something about what Sodaclub is doing strikes you as familiar, that's probably because it is very similar to what we saw Lexmark do with its "prebate" license agreement on toner cartridges. And since Lexmark got away with it there, I guess there's no reason Sodaclub shouldn't be allowed to do it too. But as our reader asks, where will the sneakwrap licensing of hard goods stop? Only when our courts begin to realize that just because a vendor says its product is licensed, not sold, shouldn't necessarily make it so.

< Hear Local Reseller Pitch or Else, Says Citrix | Getting Run Around the HP Way >


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A Gas of a License | 222 comments (222 topical) | Post A Comment
Whats the problem[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by mbeatle on Mon Oct 03, 2005 at 10:18:34 AM PDT

I see nothing wrong with this. You don't own the C02 bottle. This is a common business model thats been around long before computers. Have you ever gotten a keg of beer? You don't want to buy the actual keg, just the beer in it. Same thing here. And Sodaclub is not being sneaky about this. Its very clear when you order the product that the CO2 bottles are meant to be exchanged for refill.

[ Reply to This ]


Big difference[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 03, 2005 at 10:36:27 AM PDT

Between the "Depsoit" you pay and then get back when you CHOOSE to return an empty keg, but forcing the issue with another invalid contract EULA is total BS.  

Hopefully more of this ignorance and consumer-abuse will make it to court and be shot down like the rip-off it is.

America... by, for, and of the corporation...screw the people...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Easy now[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by mbeatle on Mon Oct 03, 2005 at 11:21:33 AM PDT

Maybe you should skip the cola and have a beer. Life's too short to get so worked up. They clearly tell you up front what the arrangement is and you can buy their product or not.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Safety?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 03, 2005 at 01:39:33 PM PDT

There could be a safety reason for not keeping the gas canister for more than five years. I know that propane tanks will not be refilled when they reach a certain age. As far as the defacement, etc, Welding tanks will often only be refilled by the company you bought/leased/rented them from.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Tank Life[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 04, 2005 at 09:50:50 AM PDT

pressurized tanks have a date after which they are no longer considered safe and must be retested or destroied. This is an example of CYA so they don't get sued when a thirty year old tank leaks or worse explodes. I think it is only good business, not a sneaky EULA. As someone else pointed out welding gas tanks have done the same for years, as have the CO2 tanks in resturants. While I agree we need to fight bad EULA this is not such an example.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Bad EULA[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 04, 2005 at 10:08:37 AM PDT

IUt is a bad EULA. IF you are only renting/leasing the tanks, it should say so. If it's a safety issue, it should be labelled as such. Not as some stupid EULA...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Soda Club Alco2jet[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 10:17:04 AM PDT

I feel that soda club is being very sneeky about this. The thread at the top pf the cannister, is a special thread, so that you cannot take it to your nearest beer sustributor, and have them fill your cyllinder, at far less a cost. Soda club claims that they are only charging you for the Air, on an exchange of tanks....but at almost $20.00, its alot more than the CO2. A machine shop, could make an adapter, to fit the top of the Alco2jet Cyllinder, and then you would be able to go to any local soda or beer distributor, and pay only $3-$5.00 for the CO2 refill in your tanks.....heck of a savings. Talk about danger.....Soda club tells you to leave your tanks ouot on front porch, and withing 7 days, their carrier will pick up your emties, and drop off your new fuilled tanks....maybe out in 100 degree temps, maybe your not at home, and neighborhood kkids see them up there and play with them, and get hurt....they do not give you any sort of tracking to know when to expect the new tanks, let alone the price, of the gas. Its a terrible scam...and they are no longer in Malls, or easy to find locations....R.J.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


alcoa co2 cylinder[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 16, 2005 at 08:32:47 PM PDT

has anyone ever had an adapter made for these and if so did you have any trouble getting the tanks refilled? please email me at jjolyn669@aol.com and let me know Thanks,

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


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All this over a leased part?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by foxyshadis1 on Mon Oct 03, 2005 at 05:05:19 PM PDT

Although it's not as prominent as it could be, it's linked while ordering and it's in the faq (although more wishy-washy than in the license). What I'd like to see most prominently is "3 leased Carbonators" so that no wrong impressions are given. Understanding that it's leased, the license makes more sense, and apparently they follow other legal considerations due to that, like charging sales tax in other states.

The thing about lexmark is that it's not labeled as leased on the box anywhere, and the license is on the inside, not the outside.

[ Reply to This ]



Thing about Lexmark...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 04, 2005 at 06:49:51 PM PDT

Not quite; the thing about Lexmark is that you are buying something and AFTER THE SALE you are bound to a contract. You should be presented with a contract to review and sign BEFORE PURCHASE if it is to be a proper contract.

-Chris

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Lexmark News (10/04/2005)[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by srynas on Wed Oct 05, 2005 at 09:40:34 AM PDT

 By Rex Crum

SAN FRANCISCO (Dow Jones) - Technology stocks closed lower Tuesday as a slumping Lexmark International pulled several bellwether issues down and erased the sector's earlier gains.

Lexmark (LXK) plunged $17.44, or almost 29%, to close at $43.50 after the printing and imaging giant lowered its third-quarter earnings forecast to a range of 40 cents to 50 cents a share from a previous estimate of 95 cents to $1.05 a share. Lexmark also expects revenue to fall between 4% and 5% from the $1.27 billion it posted a year ago.

The company cited pricing pressure from top rival Hewlett-Packard Co. (HPQ), and poor laser and ink-jet supply sales among the reasons for the warning. Lexmark also expects its fourth-quarter results to be less than expected, but didn't give an exact forecast.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



They don't care[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 05, 2005 at 09:53:13 AM PDT

Lexmark will never 'get' the connection between its anti-consumer ink cartridge practices and slumping sales. There are plenty of people like me who won't buy their products, but we are invisible to LM.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Marketing Myopia[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by srynas on Wed Oct 05, 2005 at 10:15:55 AM PDT

True

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


doutei[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#267)
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Depends how badly it suffers ...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 05, 2005 at 10:28:32 AM PDT

... if it's bad enough, the Receiver might get the connection! :-) Trouble is, what do you buy? HP is way too much trouble (bad driver software design, zero support (really -ve support as it costs you time and money and you get nothing in return). Brother, etc., second tier suppliers still aren't there on quality/feature/cost ratio. So is Espson the only real choice now?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


They don't care[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 05, 2005 at 10:45:09 AM PDT

I likewise refuse to purchase lexmark or HP even Epson printers due to the ink-chip debacle. I also advise my clients, friends and anyone who will listed to avoid. I do firmly recommend Canon printers, have had great success with them, and there are individual ink tanks, all without chips on them in the models I use. And the print results have been spectactular.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#144)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:25:45 PM PDT

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Lexmark 'Prebate' Cartridges[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 05, 2005 at 10:35:23 AM PDT

You are given the choice 'before' you buy of purchasing the 'standard' cartridge or the 'prebate' cartridge. The only two differences are the 'standard' costs more, and the 'prebate' reauires you to ship it back to Lexmark. If you don't understand the difference before you order, that is your fault. Lexmark's 'prebate' program if very fair and honest! If you don't like it, buy the 'standard' cartridge, or a 'compatible' and quit bitching!!!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


A simple question[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by ekuns on Thu Oct 06, 2005 at 10:10:15 PM PDT

Can you think of a single other consumer mass-market item where there is a license attached that prevents you from reselling it or giving it away? Seriously. Can you think of even one non-tech item where a EULA or license is mysteriously attached to the item?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


There are dozens[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 07, 2005 at 11:07:51 AM PDT

If you wish to close your package with a "Tipper Tie" you agree that you will only use Tipper Tie brand closures in that equipmnent. I make hydraulic hoses in a Gates crimper. I had to agree that I would only purchase Gates hose and fittings to use in it. As has been posted already, this is not a license which is foisted on the purchaser, nor is this a new type of agreement for this type of equipment. Go fight a real battle against bad EULA's

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


What the heck is a "Tipper Tie"?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by ekuns on Wed Oct 12, 2005 at 09:17:28 PM PDT

Please re-read my question. I said "consumer mass-market." What you use for your business does not apply. Looking at both of your examples above, they are commercial uses of something. Again, I said "consumer mass-market." It's important.

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