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Malfunctioning Product Isn't ATI's Problem

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Fri Oct 28, 2005 at 12:08:47 AM PDT

If a hardware product isn't working because of a problem with the bundled software, whose problem is it? One reader discovered that if he wanted his ATI card to actually work, it was all on him.

"I've just purchased an ATI TV Wonder Elite," the reader wrote of ATI's product that displays TV video on a PC. "The software provided by ATI -- Cyberlink PowerCinema 3.0 -- hangs on attempting to run the program for the first time. The Cyberlink software is the TV and FM tuner/recording/scheduling software, so the card is useless without it or an equivalent such as Snapstream that costs $60."

As that's almost half of what he paid for the ATI TV Wonder Elite in the first place, he was hoping he could get ATI to help him get it running. "ATI says that it's not their software and advised me to contact Cyberlink," the reader wrote. "I did so via Cyberlink's tech support web form, but I have received no reply. I contacted ATI again and they advised me to contact Cyberlink by phone. When I told them of the $29.99 charge that Cyberlink has for voice support and asked if they had another phone number for Cyberlink, I was told that no one at ATI had such information and that it was not really their problem."

But shouldn't it be ATI's problem? After all, the software was part of the product he paid ATI for, so it certainly seems unfair that he should have to either pay Cyberlink for support or buy another program.

The reader did eventually get a generic reply from Cyberlink, but it only suggested he do things he had already tried without result. "The sad thing is that I've used ATI's previous software, ATI Multimedia Center, and it was stable and relatively easy to use. Too bad they didn't do their own software for this product."

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Malfunctioning Product Isn't ATI's Problem | 193 comments (193 topical) | Post A Comment

What about the store??[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Jarulf on Fri Oct 28, 2005 at 02:14:15 AM PDT

What about the store who sold it? I know that here in Sweden, if something you buy doesn't work, it is the store that has to fix it. The buyer can always, if he wants, go back up the supply line, but doesn't have to. So in this case, ask the store to fix it and if they can't, well, then one can awalys revoke the purchase. Aren't there any similar thing in USA? Seems strange that whoever sold it can get way with it completely. Of course, if ATI was the seller, then they would in this case also be the ones that sort out the software issue, how would be their problem.

[ Reply to This ]

Sad Realities[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by srynas on Fri Oct 28, 2005 at 05:55:37 AM PDT

When it comes to computer products, the sad reality is that the U.S. culture has perverted the concept of capitalism. It is no longer about the customer, retailer, and the manufacturer having a fair exchange of value. It is now about marketing, making the sale, and moving onto the next product. After sale care is no longer considered an obligation.

The above statement, I realize, is an overly broad generalization. Many companies do provide very good customer care. Even M$, despite our complaining, provides product updates. So far my experience with ATI has been positive, but I have had way to many experiences of a similar nature. I also have a very strong dislike for computer applications that automatically load "third party" software.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

What about the store:[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by pragmatic on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 02:46:03 PM PDT

After your comment, I may consider learning Swedish and moving there... Sadly, as commented on elsewhere, in the USA, all power is given to the OEM, and the store has no obligation to the customer. The EULAs are even written to avoid any responsibility for software, even buggy, ineffective, or plain not working software. Most users do not have the $$ to pay to correct the situation, or the patience. It is far easier and convenient to move on to something that works. This is why I keep a list of companies and products on my own personal blacklist. I post comments on many websites on these companies and products, figuring an informed buyer may rethink purchasing the product. I do not offer benchmark results, but simply recount factual experience. Also, I ensure as much as possible, that business collegues in my circle of user groups and business furums, comprised of other technology purchasers, are aware of my experience with the vendors, so they may make informed desisions as well. For my own company, if I am the purchaser, these products will never even be considered, if not the purchaser, then the purchasing manager will be told of my experience to be able to factor in all relevant information. I do not monitor what product is ultimately purchased, but I do know of several instances where competing products were given the nod, as I was a user of the adopted SW. (At one former employer, we had over 60,000 employees, with the vast majority using the product in question. You figure the lost sales there, as well as the attending lost personal sales for home use) While it may not matter to the vendor, I figure each vendor on my list will lose at least 10 sales for the one sale made to me. I just do my small part, and suggest everyone else do the same, within the law. Eventually, poor SW product companies will fail due to competitive factors. I strongly suggest all SW be tested not only by the support area, but by a few power users to realy determine if it will meet the stated need.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Hardware/Software[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Tinman on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 06:45:22 PM PDT

Different states have different laws, but most all states require a refund/repair if the purchased product won't work. The OEM can say anything they want, but that don't change the fact that they are still responsible. And even the EULA, if stating that there is no refund for defective software, won't hold water in many states. If you ever have problems with hardware/software in the U.S., and you can't work the problem out with the OEM, then it's time to take it to the next step, like for instance: The Federal Trade Commission at https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01 and the BBB to file a complaint. Your state's Attorney General can also force them to resolve the issue. Then there's Small Claims Court and Consumer Protection Agencies that will help you resolve the problem in your U.S. locality. See http://consumeraction.gov/state.shtml for a location near you. There is also a wealth of information about such things at http://www.consumeraffairs.com/db/ConsumerProtection.html . I've been down this road before, and I did get it resolved. Small and Large corporations would rather replace/refund than spend thousands of dollars on court cost, but they won't budge unless you give them a push. Give'em hell....
((((TINMAN))))
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Yes, but..[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Jarulf on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 10:35:31 PM PDT

>The EULAs are even written to avoid any
>responsibility for software, even buggy,
>ineffective, or plain not working software.

Yes, but even if we assume for the sake of argument, that EULAs are perfectly valid and enforcable in all ways, they are a contract between you and the creator of the software. That does not affect your purchase (which is also a sort of contract) with the shop and their responsability.

>For my own company, if I am the purchaser, these
>products will never even be considered, if not
>the purchaser, then the purchasing manager will
>be told of my experience to be able to factor in
>all relevant information.

Although the same deal apply to a company purchasing as a consumer, there are many differences. The main being that everything is up for change in a contract, while in a customer situation, the law states minimums and such that can only be changed through additional contracts if they are in favor of the consumer. Again, talking about Sweden. Not sure if there is such a difference in USA (although I am always interested in learning more how things works in other countries).

By the way, much of what applies to Sweden would also apply to the rest of the EU since there are many common directives that all countries should have applied to their laws in this area.

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Another Point of View[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by The IT Solution on Fri Oct 28, 2005 at 08:28:23 AM PDT

Though, I agree that the company is responsible to make sure that the product works in totality, I also can see and understand why it sometimes does not work. Another major part of the US consumer mentality is, "I want more, faster, better product...and I want it cheaper...now!" Most product manufacturers attempt to provide all those attributes knowing that it is next to impossible to do. That is a part of the lie that they market in order to compete. However, when you look at how many companies have cut back on their support systems to save costs, you can then begin to understand part of the problem. When was the last time that you stat through an automated support system presentation (or a canned presentation from resources that were known yesterday as a third world country) only to discover that you still were not satisfied at the end of it? We somehow have to get back to the understanding that, if we are to receive 'more, better, faster...' that it will come with some costs to support it. Otherwise, we will find ourselves spending more time being saavy with the guts of the machine than we are developing the expertise with the interface. What is more important to you, the cheaper product or the productivity you get from using it?
"Quality support costs...lack of quality support costs more..."
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