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Vanishing Netgear Rebate Reveals Unseen Dimensions

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 01:18:38 AM PDT

I have a theory. By far the most common rebate gripe I get is from readers who have all the proof they could that they sent in the receipt with their rebate submission, but were nonetheless told by the rebate fulfillment house on the other end that their rebate must be denied because the receipt had magically disappeared. So, since we surely must assume the rebate operations wouldn't lie about a thing like that, the only alternative I can see is that the receipts are somehow being transported into another dimension. An experience a reader just had with a Netgear rebate adds credence to my supposition.

"I recently bought a Netgear 802.11N router at CompUSA," the reader wrote. "As usual, I got a second rebate receipt at the cashier. These are quite a convenience since they save you the time and effort of photo-copying the original receipt and they have pre-printed places for you to enter your name, address, email, etc."

The reader soon received an e-mail from Netgear thanking him for his purchase and providing him a link to check the status of his $10 rebate for the router. "Imagine my surprise when I checked the status of my rebate at the Netgear site and it told me that I had failed to include the receipt," the reader wrote. "Mind you, I got to the Netgear site by clicking a link in the e-mail they sent me. Think about that a minute ... yes, that's right. They e-mailed me to tell me I forgot to enclose the receipt when the only way they could have gotten my name and e-mail address was from the receipt!"

Clearly, the only logical explanation is that the receipt still existed when Netgear e-mailed him, but then it somehow dematerialized. In fact, I'd like to propose that theoretical physicists consider looking for the evidence to prove string theory by studying this phenomenon at rebate fulfillment houses. Hey, where else could all the receipts that keep getting sucked into thin air at these facilities be going but into one of the half dozen or more extra dimensions -- unseen in the world that we know -- that string theory advocates predict exist?

In any case, it at least does sound like the reader may get his rebate from Netgear after all. "I received a couple of automated replies to my protest, and then finally I got something that appeared to be human generated stating again that I had neglected to enclose my receipt," the reader wrote. "I replied to that and emphasized the fact that they must have received my receipt if they were able to e-mail me. A short while later I received another e-mail stating that I am a valued Netgear customer and that my rebate status had been changed to valid. So maybe they aren't complete idiots, but I won't hold my breath waiting for that check."

Good idea. After all, there's probably another one of those unseen dimensions reserved for rebate checks that are in the mail but never materialize.

< The Warden Sees All | Reader Voices: Office Politics >

Vanishing Netgear Rebate Reveals Unseen Dimensions | 68 comments (68 topical) | Post A Comment

This[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 04:53:50 AM PDT

Is another reason I don't believe in rebates, you send them one-of-a-kind originals and have to hope they don't lie and say you forgot them. Rebates are a SCAM! Give me the discount at time of purchase, screw that rebate crap...

[ Reply to This ]

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#114)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Rebate Insanity[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by srynas on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 05:31:21 AM PDT

We live in an electronic world; virtually every receipt we generate is in some sort of database. When I went to return an item to HomeDepot they were able to retrieve my lost receipt so that I received my refund. Here we have technologically sophisticated companies that utilize Stone Age business practices(paper and three months of processing time)to conduct business. Geeze it only took me 15 seconds to swipe the credit card and buy the product.

As everyone knows, the companies present these hurdles so that the customer is discouraged from collecting. But I often wonder if the companies are actually increasing their profits considering the expense of paying salaries to a staff that has a one-word vocabulary "NO" and the ill will they create with their valued suckers. Oops I meant "customers". Given today's technology there is simply no excuse for a rebate house to require a recipt as a proof-of-purchase anymore.

[ Reply to This ]

The purpose of a rebate...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 05:41:14 AM PDT

...is to lure buyers with the idea of a lower price while driving up profits by making it hard for them to actually get that lower price. If it were just a matter of giving buyers a lower price, they could give a discount at time of purchase. The PITA factor of the rebate process is a feature, not a bug. --Tony

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

SanDisk lack of rebate[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 27, 2005 at 08:37:56 PM PDT

I bought a SanDisk flash memory from MicroCenter who printed out a rebate form to send in. The rebate was rejected by the rebate processor as being outside the purchase dates which it was clearly not or MicroCenter would not have given me the rebate form. SanDisk promotes these rebates as a way of increasing sales. Since I felt cheated, I now avoid the SanDisk brand when I purchase any products that they make.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

devious[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 11:09:09 AM PDT

Rebates are another way to pad their revenue numbers. They get to keep their revenue numbers, even though they need to subtract the cost of the rebate processing .. but that only affects profts. Wall Street is the one that encourages such devious schemes.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

re: databases[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Sun Oct 23, 2005 at 07:09:31 AM PDT

While the parent has a good idea, everyone should remember that oftentimes the retailer is NOT the one offering the rebate but rather the manufacturer. In that case, the rebate house would not have access to the database (and probably wouldn't because of privacy concerns).

Also, how are you going to prove the person purchased the item without a receipt?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Huh? But the guy PROVIDED the reciept![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by ekuns on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 11:49:18 AM PDT

By asking "how are you going to prove the person purchased the item without a receipt?" you are totally missing the point of the issue. The issue here is about people who do include the reciept in the envelope -- often the reciept is the only place where you enter required information. And the rebate fulfillment house is somehow able to read the contents of the reciept before they declare it missing.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Another purpose...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Jarulf on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 01:28:12 AM PDT

Another purpose of rebates would be that it is in effect a simple way for the companies to get free loans and more money into the company. As you said, once in their computers, it takes no time and not much work to send it out. But if they add, say, 8 weeks of processing time, they effectively get your money as a free loan for 8 weeks. Not much to you, but if they get it from all customers (well, many), it is a lot of money for them. Add in that some doesn't file for the rebate, and they get "extra" income as well. I think that loan part is a big part of the reason why it is good, even if they did pay back every single rebate and in time, they would be making money on it.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

re: loans[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 04:43:46 AM PDT

I continually hear this myth about loans. So let me ask...what company?

Do you mean the manufacturer? Then they must be selling their product directly to the customer without any middleman whatsoever (and in that case ONLY can I see rebates being a loan).

If you mean the retailer, this would only be true if they were offering the rebate themselves without any manufacturer incentive. Most rebates that I get, however, are from the manufacturer directly (which means that the retailer gets absolutely nothing from this since I am paying the normal price at the point of sale).

In every other case, there is a supply chain involved (distributors, warehouses, retailers, and resellers) for whom the rebate is not a loan but rather a tool to increase sales at the end-point of the chain (ie, the consumer).

Rebates are primarily a marketing tool, NOT a free loan.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Dissapearing money[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Jarulf on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 11:05:18 AM PDT

>I continually hear this myth about loans. So let
>me ask...what company?

The one giving the rebate of course, what else?

>Then they must be selling their product directly
>to the customer without any middleman whatsoever
>(and in that case ONLY can I see rebates being a
>loan).

Why would they need to sell directly? Sure, the middlemans and how much they get out of it might be somewhat affected by the initial price of the manufacturer. The rebate is basically the manufacturer (if we assume he is the one giving the rebate) paying back some omeny to the final customer. The alternative is of course to lower the prices straight of with about the same ammount. In there is a rebate, he will get the higher price straight off (no matter if he sell directly or through middlemen. He sits on that money until he pys back the rebate. That includes the long "processing time" but can also include quite a bit of time with the product sitting on the shelf for example.

If there is no such "loan" effect you claim, then you must say that the rebate money simply vanishes from existance during that time. Of course that is not the case. It is money the manufacturer get and has and can do whatever he wants with (well almost). It is free extra money, I call it a loan, perhaps you want to use another word, but it is money they don't have to pay interest on and can sit on for a considerable ammount of time.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

RE: loans[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 02:22:18 PM PDT

Sigh. I worked in retail for years, so I am very familiar with this process so let me explain this "myth" in greater detail.

There is no free money/loan, but there IS marketing or co-op money that a manufacturer may offer a reseller, OR money that a marketing department may say to another department "You can offer up $X.XX rebate on this line of products for this period of time" (for whatever reason).

For example, our company once got several thousand dollars in co-op money because we sold so much of manufacturer XYZ's product. However, we couldn't use that money for rebates (high-end computer systems at the time), but we COULD use this money for advertising (which we did on some of the local radio stations).

Later, when we opened up a retail store front, we offered rebates on computer hardware. However, these were from the manufacturer directly; we had no incentive as a reseller other than to tout the price of the item (in other words, we paid the same price to the manufacturer - which we bought directly from - regardless of whether there was a rebate or not).

As I moved from store to store with different companies, I saw the pattern was the same, except this time there were distributors between the manufacturer and reseller (which means the manufacturer sells their product to the distributor at a set price, who then marks it up and sells it to the reseller).

Again, the same price was paid by the reseller to the distributor (and the distributor to the manufacturer) whether there was a rebate or not; no loan.

In the case of a reseller rebate, every one I was involved in was done ONLY with the involvement of the manufacturer (ie, those co-op dollars I mentioned above). The reseller offered the rebate, consumers responded, and after all the rebates were fulfilled THEN the manufacturer reimbursed us.

You are assuming, I think, that every purchase of a rebate-eligible product that is not reimbursed is a loan. Because of the nature of the supply chain and reimbursement, that is simply not true.

Finally, nearly every rebate I was involved with I was told by marketing that on the average, rebate redemption rates were 2 to 3% for a given product. That is what they budgeted for. If (and there were a few) the redemption rate was above that, basically that money had to come out of marketing's budget.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Still, there is extra money put in buy the consum[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Jarulf on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 04:03:05 AM PDT

It doesn't matter how money is moved arround between manufacturer, stores or other middle men. The thing is that the consumer pay MORE than he would without the rebate, and only get that money back at a later point (depending on the time it takes to process which appearantly is considerable in many cases). That money is in there with someone, be it manufacturer, shop, or whoever. It doesn't matter if there is restriction on what the money can be used to since the money is there. It doesn't vanish into thin air until the consumer gets it back.

Appearantly in your example, money seems to be transfered between manufacturer and store in various way, how is irellevant, when is irellevant, how the supply change looks or works is irellevant. The relevant thing is that there is EXTRA money tranfered from the consumer at the time of purchase that is only payed back later. That money is, in my point of view, a sort of loan to whoever happens to sit on it and can use it, for whatever purposes.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

One more thing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Jarulf on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 04:05:07 AM PDT

Also consider that the consumer could have used that extra money he is out of for a few weeks for something else, for example investing them in something, earning interest, whatever. That is now done by whoever in the supply change sits on the money, and pay nothing for siting on that money for a while. A loan!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

loans[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 04:16:40 AM PDT

Obviously, we can't agree on this. However, I suggest that you take a look at what the definition if a loan is (at least in the US), and you'll see that what's happening here is not a loan.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

You're right, it is not a loan[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 05:27:22 AM PDT

BUT it is interest free capital. Just as paying invoices in 60 days instead of 30 days reduces the amount of money which is borrowed for operating capital, so does the rebate.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Since I am not american[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Jarulf on Wed Oct 26, 2005 at 12:17:49 AM PDT

Since I am neither american nor native english speaking, perhaps "loan" is not the coreect economical or gramatical word. But as someone else answering said, it is free money that the customers give to "someone in the supply chain" for a considerable time to do with whatever they want. Since I get it back, I personally in every day talk would say it is about the same as a loan. You can call it whatever your dictionaries says, but it is money someone get and can invest, earn interest or do whatever they want with and that is in my opinion a considerable reason for the rebate system.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

The user may have been confused...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 07:27:49 AM PDT

In every rebate I have ever filled out, the rebate form and rebate receipt are two separate pieces of paper.

The rebate form is the foot-long slip of paper with the blanks for name, e-mail, address, etc. The rebate receipt is NOT the same as the rebate form. The receipt does NOT any information on it other than the fact that Item XYZ was purchased.

My local CompUSA will print out rebate forms, but for the receipt, you are on your own.

You MUST include a receipt copy AND the form in order to receive the rebate.

SirWired

[ Reply to This ]

Rebate tactics[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 08:09:30 AM PDT

I follow all instructions to the letter, then I scan ALL paper/barcodes/receipts/etc. to TIF files on my computer, grouping them in a folder with the item name & date on it. This way, if someone pulls the "we didn't receive XYZ", I can print out a duplicate and send it again.

I would love it if the rebate was applied at the point of purchase - let the vendor and the store talk to each other! Of course, I'm fantasizing, I realize.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

re: 2 separate forms[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 10:46:44 AM PDT

As a former employee of a rebate processor, I can tell you that what the parent poster wrote is exactly what happens. People either a) assume that the rebate form IS the rebate, or b) refuse to send the receipt because they need it for warranty or other purposes. I should note that in the case of a), a lot of people get very upset because they feel that if you have the receipt form that was printed at the point of sale, you shouldn't need the rebate ("The only way I could've gotten this form was to purchase the product, so you have my proof of purchase. You don't need my receipt so give me my rebate. Now. Or I'll sue.").

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

rebates are easy - if they wanted you to have it[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by alvesb on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 11:52:04 AM PDT

I recently bought a product at Staples which just opened in my town. The product came with a $12 rebate, but it didn't influence my selection. The rebate info was on the receipt. At home 15 minutes later, I logged into Staples.com filled in a web form with some numbers from the receipt and that was it. Nothing to put in the U.S. mail, nothing about the wrong box top (I got that one a few years) in a "sorry - rebated denied" letter. See, that's how easy it is to do, if they really wanted you to have the rebate.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Staples Rebate[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 27, 2005 at 08:21:27 PM PDT

I also folowed Staples procedure but never received the rebate. I hate rebate offers where the companies try their best to cheat you out of the promised rebate.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Rebate and rebate form are different?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by ekuns on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 11:57:31 AM PDT

Then why does the so-called rebate form say explicitly at the top that it is a "copy reciept," and why does it have prominently at the top an exact replica of the contents of the reciept? Are you saying the need two separate copies of the contents of the reciept, one of the rebate form and a separate one with a picture-identical copy of the top of the rebate form but without the rebate form bottom part?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Netgear Rebates[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by jam on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 08:36:39 AM PDT

I've also had some interesting experiences with NetGear rebates recently. I bought a NetGear 802.11 router and 802.11 PCI card recently at BestBuy, both with rebates from the store and rebates from NetGear. I sent them all in within a day or so, following what others have advocated--after preparing the paperwork, scan everything in, and save it in a fold on my HD.

I shortly got an email from NetGear that the rebate was processing, I would get a check shortly, etc... However, several weeks passed without a check. I eventually contacted them, and they started asking for all sorts of information--which exact product, the rebate offer number, etc. Apparently, the rebate had gotten lost in their system, or something. Since I had the scanned versions of my documents, I could look it up easily, and in emails, I pointed out to them that I could email them the scans, if they needed. (That ended up not being necessary)

To make a long story short, I did eventually get my rebates, though not after about 5 or 6 emails back and forth for each rebate. I got the checks about 2 1/2 months after I bought the equipment, which isn't much more than the 8 weeks they claim, but a lot longer than it should have been, since the rebate was in their system within a week of purchase.

Anyway, I guess the point is to always scan in everything sent for a rebate, and record when you sent the rebate in. Then, you have something to argue with, and at least provide them with information. Otherwise, if you can't answer their questions, they may respond that they can't find the rebate (or receipt, UPC, or whatever), and you're out of luck.

[ Reply to This ]

Vanishing Rebate[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by byelen on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 01:33:57 PM PDT

I had a similar issue one time with memory purchased at CompUSA. I brought my supporting documentation to the store and spoke with the manager on duty. The end result was that the rebate arrived about 6 weeks later.

[ Reply to This ]

Dimensional litter[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by tcsbiz on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 06:20:39 AM PDT

So, we are littering another dimension with all of our little receipts. I wonder how that is affecting the dimension's environment and if we are endangering the creatures. Wait until "Dimension First" hears about this! Greenpeace will have to build a cross-dimension boat and attempt to prevent the arrival of the paper. What if we are angering intelligent beings in that dimension? Will they follow the steady stream of receipts and come kick our butts? I wonder if Homeland Security is prepared for that.

Tom.

[ Reply to This ]

Late rebates continue for me[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 10:11:57 AM PDT

I have several late rebates that I am working on now. The most interesting is a Logitech $15 mouse rebate from a purchase at CompUSA back in May of this year. ExpressGroup is handling this rebate. I mailed in my information in May and it has been sitting in their database "processing". Rebate form said I should receive my check in 6-12 weeks. After 12 weeks I call EG and they say - Oh, it took 2 weeks for us to receive your forms and add it to our data base so you need to add 2 weeks to the 12 weeks on the form. After 15 weeks I call and they tell me that weekdays are only included in the 12 week calculation (and not weekends) so I need to factor that into my time. I then talk to someone there who tells me that they had "an overwhelming response for this promotion" and they are beind schedule. Yeah, right. Whichever company (Logitech or CompUSA) is actually paying the rebate has not paid EG yet. I filed a complaint online with the Michigan State Attorney General's office (EG corp office is in Michigan) and the BBB. The Michigan SAG actually pursued with EG and they have now mailed my check. So it only took 5 months and a complaint to a SAG to get my $15, assuming that they are not lying and I actually get my check. No more Logitech products for me...

[ Reply to This ]

It's not exactly Logitech's fault[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by rodak on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 12:39:11 PM PDT

Their only crime was picking The Express Group to handle their rebates. They apparently have a poor record of rebate fullfillment. I had a rebate from Linens and Things handled by TEG, and it took about 6 months and 3 phone calls to get it. But that sort of thing, in my experience, is by FAR the execption, rather than the rule.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Logitech Rebate[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 12:42:05 PM PDT

Funny, I bought a Logitech mouse at CompUSA with rebate about the same time, complained to nobody, got a check a few days ago. Interesting.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Rebates Rock[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Tourette on Sun Oct 23, 2005 at 06:03:26 AM PDT

Okay, the subject is silly, even sillier when coming from the 47 year old balding geek that is me. Gimme a break; it's Sunday morning. But anyway.... We recently upgraded some ancient gear in the old homestead - we're talking P-II/266MHz, and that was the flagship of the fleet - and said balding geek is getting too old (and no longer has the time, nor, frankly, interest) to be scavenging parts to build systems. A quick trip to Best Buy, a couple of eMachines - yes, eMachines, look down your nose if you will, but Dell and HP can kiss my bony ass - a Netgear router and a few NICs later, plus a copy of Xandros on mine (the wife remains on XP, but compromizes by using Opera and Eudora), and we entered the 00s. What's all this got to do with rebates? This: While gathering all the required curled up slips and filling out the forms may have taken longer than setting up the actual gear (full disclosure: my better half took on the dirty task of Rebate Management), the checks have been rolling in like Christmas cards, with nary an argument from either retailer or OEMs. Yes, I'd just prefer the damn discount up front - and prefer to not take "free" printers I don't really need, or bloody pre-installed Windoze XP and all sorts of other crap I have to rip out - but the bottom line is, after jumping through all the correct hoops, the rebates deliver as promised.

[ Reply to This ]

Game Theory[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by foxyshadis1 on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 01:20:20 PM PDT

Sometimes I wonder if it isn't so much that some rebate houses or companies are always bad, but if they game the numbers looking for the optimum profit/ill will point, knowing some customers will forget they sent it in and others will never bother to get it back. In the meantime they keep sending most out to keep the game going. I'm sure at least some companies must put a mathematician or two on this.

Of course there's always room for crooked rebate houses to turn in reciepts to client companies while denying payment to the customers, pocketing the difference.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Let's small court claims 'em...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 01:04:42 PM PDT

So, since nonpayment of rebate claims is a common theme here, has anyone taken any such parties to small claims court? I just bought a Western Digital hard drive from Circuit City that has 2 rebates--one by WD and one by Circuit City. So, if either doesn't come back, should I take the rebate house or WD (who's offering one rebate)/Circuit City (who's offering the 2nd rebate)???

With the filing fees, thousands of small-claims jurisdictions nationwide, costs of defending oneself in a far-away land, and the potential for bad publicity, what company wouldn't settle for 10x the rebate amount???

[ Reply to This ]

Re: Small Claims Court[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 10:18:03 AM PDT

My way of maximizing savings with minimal time spent is to purchase items online, and eschew local rebates. The product purchased online costs less than the before-rebate price of big-box stores, without the hassle. Local stores offering rebates rather than instant discounts are losing my money --if they want it that badly, they can offer me good prices without the headaches. I find it especially ironic that by the time most people get their rebates, the price on the item they purchased has often decreased, in many cases enough that the new before-rebate price is close to the after-rebate price they got.

[ Reply to This ]

no luck on any rebates[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 11:02:40 AM PDT

The last three major rebates I have submitted never produced any results. One on a Sony camcorder, one for a TI graphing calculator and another for ACE hardware stores. Never received a single rebate and mysteriously none of them received a rebate request from me, as the claim. I am done with the rebate shopping, give me the discount up front or I looking elswhere.

[ Reply to This ]

Rebate offers are attempted fraud[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 11:14:04 AM PDT

The only purpose of a rebate is to give a retailer the capability of advertising a lower price of a product than that which it actually sells it for. Consumers are lured into make a purchase thinking they are getting a better than regular price, but through whatever reason, be it neglect or mistake on the consumer's part or roadblocks interposed by rebate fulfillers, many people fail to receive their rebates, and thus are denied the benefit of the bargain. There can be no other way to describe this than attempted fraud because of rebate failures irrespective of the cause. I avoid shopping at retailers who make use of rebates and I am patiently awaiting the day when it is both outlawed and state's attorneys general file suit.

[ Reply to This ]

Bingo![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by rodak on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 12:51:07 PM PDT

That's exactly what's going on! But until they are outlawed, I'll continue to take advantage of them, getting stuff free or dirt cheap because such a large segment of the population seems unable or unwilling to read and follow directions completely. If more people did just that, and manufacturers started having to pay up on most rebates, they'd stop offering them.

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Related but different, is gas stations[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by ekuns on Wed Oct 26, 2005 at 12:02:41 PM PDT

A significant minority of gas stations, at least in the Chicagoland area, advertise the special "if you get a carwash here" price per gallon of gas, which is 10 to 15 cents cheaper per gallon. I think that this is deceptive marketing unless the huge banner showing the price is clearly marked that this is a special discount that requires the purchase of a car wash.

I know some would defend this practice under "buyer beware" and that you can tell the true price when you get to the pump. But this is exactly the same as a store advertising an "after rebate" price (without notification that you pay more at the register), going into the store and finding that out at the register.

I recently went through my last seven year's rebates. I found a couple where I could not tell if they were fulfilled or not -- the kind where you get a gift card instead of cash. I never bothered to track those. Ignoring those, of the many rebates I have sent in, I only found a couple, maybe as many as three, where I might never have gotten the rebate money. Of those, I found only one where I was certain that I did not get the rebate -- that was for a Hayes Accura modem, a $40 rebate, where the company declared bankrupcy very shortly after issuing the rebate and before it was really possible to collect.

I have received, without any problem, every rebate I have ever submitted that was more than $50. Over this time period, I have submitted two $150 rebates to SprintPCS, one $100 rebate to Tivo, one $100 rebate to Covad, and maybe one or two more of this magnitude. I received all of them without a single problem. I also have received without any problem every $2 rebate I ever submitted. (Not many of those. :) Where problems occur seems to be in the $20 to $40 range. Maybe on smaller rebates it's painless to just pay, and on the largest rebates there is too much chance of customers following up.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

The original point[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by sandygettings on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 11:48:03 AM PDT

All of these posts seem to have missed the point of the original article: that rebates vanish into another dimension.

This is clearly not the case. Rebates merely travel through a wormhole that exits into the lint filter of my clothes dryer. There is no need to postulate the existence of extra dimensions.

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Rebates Lost[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by glenn354 on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 12:31:14 PM PDT

I filed for a Quickbooks upgrade rebate of $120 a while back. Fortunately, I kept a copy of everything. After 12-15 weeks, I called about the rebate. Intuit asked if I had my proof. I submitted it to them and shortly thereafter, the rebate showed up. I understand that people lose things, and to Intuit's credit, they did also and provided the rebate.

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Same here[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by rodak on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 12:45:31 PM PDT

I also do tons of rebates (something like $2,000, I think in the last few years). I scan everything and follow up on all. My success rate is about 98%, with about 5% of those needing a bit of prodding. Most times a single phone call or email will do the trick, but in rare cases (like 2 or 3 altogether) it's taken several calls/emails/faxes.

My threshold is about $5 - anything less isn't worth the trouble.

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How to fix the Problem[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 04:34:56 PM PDT

Gee. I wonder what would happen if a copy of this letter (the original posting of Ed Foster's article) found its way into the head offices of NetGear? Do you think they would look into the problem - and, um, maybe fix it?

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#113)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:47:27 PM PDT

Bounced netgear check![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 05:55:00 PM PDT

I can top that... I got the rebate check for the netgear router, but when I deposited the check in my bank, it bounced, and not only did I not get the $40 rebate, but I was charged $10 by my bank. I contaced netgears' rebate people, and they said to send a copy of the check. I sent a copy of the front and back of the check as well as the invoice from the bank. Heard nothing for 2 weeks. So I email them again, and attached a .pdf of the check and bank invoice (and told them I was attaching it). They replied to the email again saying they never got the copy of the check. So I call them again and told them it was attached to the email that I am sure they got becuase they responded to it. They requested that I fax it to them, and I did.. it has been about 2 weeks now and I haven't heard back. I earn $100/hour and wasted about 30 minutes chasing a $40 rebate and only got charged a $10 bank fee to show for it!

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What about the deadlines?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
by spocko on Wed Oct 26, 2005 at 01:57:30 PM PDT

Deadline for posting the rebates are getting shorter and shorter. If you miss it you are SOL, and they are counting on that.

So I mailed something at or near the deadline. The website said that the envelope was postmarked after the deadline. I don't have any proof that I dropped in at the right time.

I can't sue the post office. I don't want to and don't have the time do to get proof of postmark from the postoffice. I'm screwed. What can I do?

This should ALL be dooable online. It is calculated bullshit that it is not.
Spocko. Author of www.spockosbrain.com the blog that is sweeping the nation! Now with 19 readers!
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Postmark[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#42)
by Anonymous User on Wed Oct 26, 2005 at 03:11:49 PM PDT

I got burned by this once as well, so I went and talked to my local postmaster.

What he told me was that all mail is "supposed" to be postmarked by the post office that sends it. If, for whatever reason, the postmark is missing or is illegible, than the receiving post office postmarks it.

He also said that the only way to guarantee a postmark is to get it hand cancelled at your post office.

My advice, BTW (and if the rebate house will do it; some won't) is to ask for your rebate submission including the envelope back.

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Good idea, how will that help?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by spocko on Wed Oct 26, 2005 at 04:32:02 PM PDT

I like the idea of getting the envelope back, but how will that help? Maybe it didn't get canceled in time. Maybe it got held up or canceled at the wrong place. I still have no proof I was right and they were wrong. It MIGHT have been canceled late since I didn't get it hand canceled at the post office. Yet another barrier that they want to throw up so that they don't have to pay you. Asshats. If I ask them for the envelope and they can't provide it (with a bad date) can I claim they are have no proof and ask for my rebate?
Spocko. Author of www.spockosbrain.com the blog that is sweeping the nation! Now with 19 readers!
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best and worst[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 27, 2005 at 12:49:28 PM PDT

Best rebate policy I've seen is Staples--it's all online, no $%^&&!! receipts to send in! Worst: circuit city, one item I bought had two separate rebates on it, both said to send in the ORIGINAL barcode--which, technically, is not possible in the realm of the laws of physics. When I emailed the contact for the rebates, they said to call them. I gave up, sent both in with one photocopied barcode. I think I finally got both rebates..(that's the other thing, unless you keep meticulous records and follow up constantly, you may not even notice that you never received it!)

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Rebates and slimy Cor-pirations!!!!![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#49)
by wawadave on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 11:01:48 PM PDT

Ok i think this rebate scam has to be one of the slickest smothe rat scams that Cor-pirations have come up with to date.
I,m not fond of c heating people or being cheated by people. as none should be. But just how loathsome are these scams? seems many more get robed of there money than receive it back!
I utterly refuse to buy a product with a rebate. I have learned long ago that there are very few people you can trust to give you back money once you have handed it to them. And i know of not one Cor-pirate i could trust with it.
jmho

RFID Tags Spyware!
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No, it's not really a "scam"[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#50)
by rodak on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 01:29:12 PM PDT

If things were as you've described them, "many more get robed[sic] of there[sic] money than receive it back", then it would also be true for a single person submitting multiple rebates - many more would never be received than received. But that's apparently not true, either in my own case (dozens upon dozens of rebates over the years, with a roughly 98% success rate), nor in the cases of many others posting here (and elsewhere - check out the forums at www.slickdeals.net). Every time these discussions come up, there are always a few people complaining, and almost invariably they've only ever submitted a few rebates, while you always see postings from several folks like myself, who have terrific success rates with numerous rebates over the years. If it were truly a scam, then how come there are so many of us virtually never fail to get a return on a rebate?

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The Rebate scam isn't designed to get everyone[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
by spocko on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 12:47:49 PM PDT

Just people who aren't as organized as you are Rodak. They are the kind who then blame themselves. And when it comes time to complain they can say, "Well it is partly my fault for..." and since they only rarely do the rebates they think that their bad experiences are what everyone experiences. When they read stories about people like you they: 1) Assume that you aren't working for a company that provides rebates and have a vested interest in the process

2) Continue to blame themselves since clearly better organized people have better experiences. (I mean hell, you KNOW the stats on the whole rebate process. Who better to make a disorganized person feel bad. We can't usually find stamps let alone track the percentage of rebates that have been successful over years.)

3) Discount their own experience as EVEN IF THE COMPANY DID SOMETHING WRONG. Just because YOU screwed up doesn't mean that the company ALSO screwed up. You might be buying a very different product than they are. That company (Company X) might ACTUALLY screw people. You are often dealing with Company Y who is VERY GOOD at this process. Unless you both dealt with the same rebate and the same company at the same time you aren't getting a true comparison. Maybe you are both dealing with Company X, but you dealt with them AFTER they got a new rebate house. And the very nature of these deals is the inability to built apples to apples comparisons unless you gather lots of data. Who gathers this data? No one. Unless there is a class action law suit or an activist on the web who asks the question. Even then you can't be sure you have reached everyone who has both a good and bad experience because not everyone will complain or praise a company just because they don't want to bother.

This whole deal is using human nature (setting up a hassle) plus math statistics (percentage who want the great price and won't follow through on the deal) minus the cost setting up the rebate mechanism. the end product is greater profits. Unhappy customers are usually trumped by greedy disorganized people who bitch but don't stop buying the brand/product because of the rebates.
Spocko. Author of www.spockosbrain.com the blog that is sweeping the nation! Now with 19 readers!
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Well stated...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#53)
by rodak on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 08:13:15 AM PDT

Organized? Moi? LOL! You sould see my sock drawer!

Seriously, though, you've outlined the reality quite nicely.

I will say, though, that I (and I'm sure, others like me) do a lot of rebates from lots of different retailers and manufacturers, so while there are a few bad apples, most of them do seem to be pretty reliable.

Some notable exceptions I've become aware of: Fryes, CompUSA, TigerDirect, any rebater using The Express Group for fullfillment. I have done rebates with the latter three, and of those, only CompUSA has not given me any problems. The one Express Group rebate I did was unbelievable in the amount of time and effort - barely worth the $30 check I did finally receive. That one alone was far and away the most troublesome rebate I've EVER done. A close second was my TigerDirect experience. In the end, it was a mistake on their part (wrong expiration date advertised), and to their credit, they did issue me a check which covered the amount the rebate would have been for. I must stress, however, that these two are extreme exceptions. Of the small percentage that don't automatically come in by themselves, it usually takes no more than a single phone call or email to "unclog the works", so to speak.

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I don't know about that[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#61)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 11, 2006 at 01:42:29 PM PDT

I have not read the foregoing in its entirety, so forgive any duplication. The degree of scam involved in (what may be an intentio