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Verio Spam Filtering Isn't Optional

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Sep 13, 2004 at 12:04:03 AM PDT

Aggressive spam filtering that generates false positives on legitimate messages is an unfortunate fact of like these days. But as one Verio customer argues, shouldn't the decision on whether to use it be up to the customer and not his web hosting service?


"I've been a loyal Verio hosting customer for quite a few years -- I have two domains that I manage with them and I have three other customers with domains hosted with them," the reader wrote. "My gripe is that in the last couple of weeks, Verio has instituted a 'spam-blocking' service that cannot really be disabled. My problem is not so much them starting the spam blocking service as their particular implementation. I as a Verio-hosted user can 'Disable Spam Filtering' on my domain, but that choice doesn't really disable the filtering, it just lowers the threshold of what is determined to be spam. This change in itself is bad enough, but what is worse is that Verio's 'proprietary' spam blocking service bounces all messages that it determines to be spam without notifying me. I'm not able to authorize the individual to e-mail me, and neither is the individual able to authenticate themselves to let their e-mail come through."

The reader has found that, when Verio blocks a message to him, the sender receives only a generic bounce notice that doesn't even make it clear which message was blocked or why. "In fact, the bounce message doesn't even tell the sender why it was bounced or even that it was bounced because it looked like spam," the reader wrote. "I have had a number of order confirmations that were blocked as spam by Verio and neither the vendor nor I can do anything to force the message through. The sales rep of one company I'd placed five orders with tried to e-mail me order summaries as he usually does, but one of the five order summaries was rejected. Since the sales rep did not know which one was the rejected one, he assumed that all of them had been rejected and again sent the five summaries -- and again only four order summaries made it to me. It also appears that all e-mail communications from IBM.com is considered spam by Verio's proprietary service, as I've only been able to confirm my orders with them via IBM's website."

So far the reader's complaints to Verio have only netted the suggestion he upgrade to a more expensive Verio service. "Verio admits that the service is not quite perfect but refuses to allow me to decide what should or should not come into my domain," the reader wrote. "For some reason, Verio representatives seem to think that this is OK, because they have to protect their servers. In fact, three consecutive Verio reps told me that I could either wait until it gets better, or I could 'upgrade' to the VPS service, which happens to cost 600 percent more per month per domain. They refuse to admit that neither is acceptable. To say that I am looking for another hosting provider is like saying a guy stuck in the desert for weeks is looking for a little water."

< Terms of Comparison | DRM and the Lessons of History >


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Verio Spam Filtering Isn't Optional | 45 comments (45 topical) | Post A Comment
Heh[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Mason on Mon Sep 13, 2004 at 12:20:13 AM PDT

That's just rich, considering the amount of spam Verio customers generate.

[ Reply to This ]


Hit 'em where it hurts[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by kamnet on Mon Sep 13, 2004 at 06:58:42 AM PDT

Quite simply, if Verio is not willing to listen to its customers, then find another webhosting company who does (I'm always looking for new customers *grin*).

True, those may be Verio's servers, but you're the individual who is paying to keep them online. As far as I'm concerned, as long as you are paying for it, it is up to YOU to decide just what level of protection you feel is necessary.

[ Reply to This ]



Verio isn't the only one[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 13, 2004 at 08:02:52 AM PDT

I've found Hotmail blocks some addresses despite having the spam filters set as low as they go and the offending address whitelisted.

[ Reply to This ]


Reporting Error?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 13, 2004 at 05:09:52 PM PDT

I'm quite surprised at this article. It seems the author did no legwork to determine if the facts were accurate or ask Verio to comment. I too am a Verio customer. I was greatly pleased to see the spam filtering solution from Verio. In the days after they started the service my spam went from 10:1 to 2:1. Not sure what sort of account you have, but mine allows white/black listing and I can disable the filtering. The help file says "If you choose the Disable Spam Filtering option, the EDS passes all email messages that do not match any of your blacklist entries. "

[ Reply to This ]


Verio does have white and black listing[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 07:32:00 AM PDT

My Verio account too has white and black listing that was recently implemented. You should check your control panel again.

[ Reply to This ]


Verio Spam Filtering Options[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 08:12:04 AM PDT

Verio just recently added a module to their spam filtering solution. They have added whitelisting and blacklisting capabilities. It looks like Verio does listen to their customers, but it just takes a little time to get things implemented. I have a hosting account with Verio and the support is great. Far better than any other provider i have worked with.

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Get some Control[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 11:22:29 AM PDT

Do yourself a favor, look for webhosting with Postini spam filtering. My host (www.kittynet.com) allows me to self administer spam settings for my domain, and charges less if I do it myself.

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I am the Verio customer in this gripe.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Byron Todd on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 01:06:29 PM PDT

I did check with Verio:  I talked to three separate customer service representatives, each giving me the same answer:  you can either enable or disable - but disable only changes the threshold of what is considered SPAM.  At the time I made this complaint (at the beginning of August), there was no blacklisting/whitelisting.  Honestly, it is only since I have read these comments that I found out about the whitelisting/blacklisting.

The truth of the matter is that I implemented an anti-spam solution over a year ago for both domains, and the anti-spam solution in place gives notification of rejected emails, and allows the rejected email senders to whitelist themselves (at the users' discretion).  One of the real problems  is that I continue to lose legitimate email, and Verio's solution means that the sender must contact me up and ask me (or the recipient) to add them to a whitelist that is only accessible to the domain manager????

Of the above "Anonymous" posters - who are also Verio customers - how many email users do you have?  And the second problem is that I do not have the time to get address books from each user and then add each address to Verio's whitelist.  Nor do I want to give the domain username and password so that each user can add the needed addresses.

Since my complaint, I changed the status of the Verio "EDS" to "Disable Spam Filtering", however, I continue to receive legitimate email with [SPAM] in the header, and I continue to lose legitimate email - yesterday, an order confirmation from PCMall.com was rejected.  What is the point of even allowing the choice of "disable" if it does not disable!

I will be changing providers - "When?" is the only question that remains for me.
-- Consultant/Owner Todd Computer Solutions
[ Reply to This ]



Time to "vote" with your wallet[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by spiv on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 01:54:39 PM PDT

Choosing a large, well-known vendor is not always the best solution.

"Nobody gets fired for choosing IBM" may be folklore but the "cost" of simply buying from the vendor with the biggest ad budget is that you pay more and often get less.

The irony of your situation is we do just the opposite of Verio - in our www.voicegateway.com web hosting services we do not include spam blocking at all - it is an optional service.

Our clients that need it or want it pay a small extra fee and are given the flexibility to have different blocking thresholds and an automatic whitelisting capability linked to their address book.

Clients that want to use the blocking built-into Outlook or their favorite 3rd party utility are not penalized by having the cost of blocking (servers, software, management) bundled into their hosting fees without their permission.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Me to[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 15, 2004 at 08:29:41 AM PDT

I am another Verio customer in the same situation. I am also loosing emails, and I cannot fully switch off the antispam thingy. One of my activies is to collect and analyze spam just to check different anti-spam engines and algorithms ... So, I have no solution but to change provider. Anyhow, this is a unilateral change of contract conditions by Verio.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Verio Went Rogue Some Time Ago[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by MattFondel on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 06:07:56 PM PDT

The feeling I get from Verio's employees (and Verio's general counsel Kyle Hall) is that they know that the company's days are numbered and they all just want to take down as many other people with them as a they can. From report in Fortune, the only reason Verio is still in business in because NTT keep subsidizing it with more money (but how long can Verio keep losing money before NTT pulls the plug?). I can't believe that the Justice Department doesn't have a RICO lawsuit against this Verio Enterprise. Since IBM is a major web hosting competitor to Verio (and IBM is actually making money at it while Verio is losing money at it), the impression one gets is that Verio is trying to scare away any potential advertising directed at its last remaining customers. This "Verio Enterprise" is currently maintaining that it OWNS domain names that anyone registers with MelboureneIT thorugh it. Verio's position is that it can simply TAKE any domain names registered by its customers with MelboureneIT if Verio FEELS that it is owed money (either for domain registration or webhosing). In fact, Verio destroyed hundreds of websites for Real Estate agents around the country when Verio simply TOOK domain names without any court order or any due process of law to the legal owner of the domain names. The domain names were registered by a Verio Reseller for his customers. Verio has even altered its agreements with its Resellers to allow Verio to TAKE domain names its resellers register in the names of their Clients. In other words, Verio wants to be able to take domain names that are legally registered to people who are NOT even Verio customers; all while Verio is not an ICANN acccredited registrar (the closet Verio is to ICANN is investing money in MelbourneIT). If you are a Verio Reseller or a customer of a Verio Reseller, you should get out now while you can. This goes also for anyone who has a domain name registered with MelbourneIT. Verio is in total control of MelbourneIT. BTW, one of Verio's lawyers who maintained that Verio could simply take my company's domain name, suddenly up and QUIT after I filed a RICO lawsuit in Federal Court Against Verio and MelbourneIT.

[ Reply to This ]


Rogue sometime ago?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 15, 2004 at 07:00:08 AM PDT

Are you insane? You are trying to tell me that there is a vast conspiricy by Verio to take down as many people as they can? Ok, Assume that that is true for a minute. Do you really think that NTT is dumb enough not to notice something like that? You make it sound like when Bill Gate's visited Homer Simpson. "Buy 'em out boys!". All I see is a bitter ex-Verio customer that is probably as dumb as Homer anyway. You opinion should be taken for what it is. Rantings by a person that probably didn't even know they had the Internet on computers now.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


What about Register.com[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by MattFondel on Wed Sep 15, 2004 at 10:21:34 AM PDT

If NTT had a clue they would have gotten rid of Kyle Hall (Verio's General Counsel) when he made the decision to file an appeal in the register.com v Verio case (they did seem to replace Verio's CEO). In the Register.com case, Verio admitted doing damage to Register.com's website when it used robots to get leads on who had just registered a domain name. Rather than admit an error and try to gain some respect from the world, Verio filed an appeal (and lost) to try to claim that it had a RIGHT to damage and increase the bandwidth on register.com's website. If a company has no problem damaging Register.com's website, do you think they will have a problem damaging the websites of ordinary people? If you go to Reality Times or search google for Verio and Reality Times you can see the report on Verio/MelbourneIT destroying hundreds of websites of real estate brokers around the county when Verio simply TOOK their domain names. Verio will go down in history as the company destroyed by a lawyer, thier general counse Kyle Hall. The decision to "robot" register.com's website was bad legal advise and the decision that Verio could simply take domain names will lead to criminal charges against Verio and Melbourne IT (it is hasn't alread).

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


For more info...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Sat Sep 18, 2004 at 02:40:25 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


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host liability?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Howling on Fri Sep 17, 2004 at 02:53:08 PM PDT

I have gone thru these blocking issues many times for clients and recently my own host implemented spam blocking.

I think the real way to look at these brute force spam blocking is censorship of your email by the hosting company.

It would be interesting to go back to the Verio legal department and explain that they may be opening up their own liability.  typically ISPs and Hosts avoid responsibility for illegal activities of the customer by acting a simple connection.  

Once the ISP or host starts controlling what is travelling thru the network they exercising editorial control and become classified as a publisher.  As a publisher they can be held liable for kiddy porn, etc being transmitted on their network.

[ Reply to This ]



The More Litigation the Merrier[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by MattFondel on Sat Sep 18, 2004 at 10:48:27 AM PDT

The law firm that represents Verio Morrison & Foerster is the old law firm of Verio's General Counsel, Kyle Hall. So, the more litigation Hall generates against Verio, the more money Morrison & Foerster makes billing Verio by the hour to defend Verio in lawsuits. Again, Verio lauching robots against register.com's website and Verio actually filing an appeal arguing that it had a legal right (via ICANN) to do damage to register.com's website makes sense ONLY when you realize that Morrison & Foerster made a lot of money as Verio's lawyer in the litigation.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Filtering Competitor's Emails[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by MattFondel on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:05:45 AM PDT

The Spam Filtering cited in the original post (based on how I know Verio operates) appears to be intended to prevent Verio competitors from marketing to Verio customers and Verio Resellers.

If you search google news for IBM and Verio right now, you can see a report indicating that IBM and a couple of other web hosting companies are gaining market share at the expense of Verio

My guess would be that while turning off spam filtering will allow more email in, that emails from certain Verio Competitiors (like IBM Equinox) are "hardwired" into the filtering software and that email from Verio competitors will not be allowed in. This is how Verio thinks and operates. Verio employees act and operate like rats on a sinking ship, I think they know the company can't go on losing money much longer.

Once more people are aware that Verio WILL simply take their domain names and disable their websites in order to force them to pay Verio money Verio FEELS you owne it, the exodus from Verio will become a stampede.



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Your Domain Names Now Belong to Verio[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 01, 2004 at 12:10:35 AM PDT

If while a Verio customer or reseller (or a customer of a Verio Reseller), you transfer ANY domain names to MelbourneIT or register any domain names with MelbourneIT, Verio's stated legal position is that the domain names become the legal property of Verio.

As a result of the liability Verio realized it could face when it simply took the domain names of hundreds of Real Estate Brokers around the country, sometime around December 2003, Verio altered its reseller's domain registration agreement in such a way that Verio now feels it can take the domain names of Customers of its resellers. In other words, Verio now feels it can legally take the domain names of people/companies who aren't even Verio customers (and who have no legal agreements with Verio) if the domain names were registered by one of Verio's resellers with Melbourne IT.

Sometime around December 2003, MelbourneIT redesigned its website so that domain names registered by or transfered to MelbourneIT by Verio customers can now ONLY be renewed or transferred out with Verio's permission.

Keep in mind, Verio is the company that argued in Federal Court that it had a legal right to do damage to Register.com's website (and it then filed an appeal when the Judge decided against it).

The bottom line based on Verio and its lawyers claims seems to be that if you want to keep your domain names and if you want to be able to renew your domain names, THEN you have to remain a Verio customer.

And Verio's position is that it is not required to get any judgments stating that you owe it money, Verio's position is that it can simply take your domain names if it BELIEVES that you MAY owe it money.



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Verio Spam 'Solution' = No Good[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:26:07 AM PDT

I too had a disasterous time when Verio unilaterily implemented SPAM filtering on the web hosting account on August 2.

First, they gave no advance warning- they just did it.

Second they made a *major* change at the onset of a month, which is crippling to an organization such as mine where end of month reporting is critical.

Three, all attempts (and I spend many hours with Verio reps and "Presidential Team") to determine what parameters qualify a message as SPAM where all rebuffed ("it's proprietery information and if we tell you it will get in the hands of spammers" I was told). And since it applied to both incoming and outgoing mail, we had no idea if our 8 letter PDFs going to 20 clients (which they pay significant money) would make it though; and timing is essential.

Four, it generated so many 'false positives' that our Presdient couldn't even get his airline confirmation and seat assignment from a major airline. We were loosing critical emails and Verio was very uncompassioniate.

Fifth, any information about this was burried deep in their knowledge base and was generally out of date and uninformative. It should have been a front and center alert on the control panel.

Sixth, why they simply couldn't make this an optional feature is beyond me. Why they unilaterally implemented a poorly tested (if at all) and concieved tool and did nothing about customer complaints is dumbfounding.

I finally was able to speak to some muckity muck who gave me solace and attempted to appease me. He indiccated that they were still 'tweaking' the sysytem and planned in the next weeks (months) to implement a whitelist feature (since Mid Sept has been adopted). But for well over a month were in email limbo and changing providers for email hosting is no walk in the park.

I resent that Verio took such a callous attitude to my business. I had been generally happy with them but know I am taking my time and looking for an opportune time to transition to another provider.

[ Reply to This ]



aderalahoo.com[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
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kimo[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 11:42:40 PM PDT

لعبة زراعة الازهار لعبة زراعة الازهار لعبة زحمه لعبة زحمه لعبة تراك العربيات لعبة تراك العربيات لعبة حيوانات لعبة حيوانات لعبة زحمه دراجات لعبة زحمه دراجات لعبة حيوانات مفترسة لعبة حيوانات مفترسة لعبة حيوانات الغابة لعبة حيوانات الغابة لعبة زحمه سفن بحريه لعبة زحمه سفن بحريه لعبة قنابل لعبة قنابل لعبة راكن السيارات لعبة راكن السيارات لعبة قنابل الانجليزية لعبة قنابل الانجليزية لعبة سارق السيارات لعبة سارق السيارات لعبة قنابل قاتلة لعبة قنابل قاتلة لعبة باكمان المنقذ لعبة باكمان المنقذ لعبة باكمان لعبة باكمان لعبة السيارة المسروقة لعبة السيارة المسروقة لعبة باكمان الجديدة لعبة باكمان الجديدة لعبة مجانين لعبة مجانين لعبة مجانين الطريق لعبة مجانين الطريق لعبة تركيب لعبة تركيب لعبة مجانين السيارات لعبة مجانين السيارات لعبة نينجا مخيفة لعبة نينجا مخيفة لعبة قتل مخيفة لعبة قتل مخيفة لعبة مخيفة لعبة مخيفة لعبةالباظل لتركيب الاشكال لعبةالباظل لتركيب الاشكال لعبة لقص الشعر لعبة لقص الشعر لعبة صالون لقص الشعر لعبة صالون لقص الشعر لعبة باظل لتركيب الصور لعبة باظل لتركيب الصور لعبة ماتركس الطائر لعبة ماتركس الطائر لعبة تصفيف لقص الشعر لعبة تصفيف لقص الشعر لعبة ماتريكس الشهيرة لعبة ماتريكس الشهيرة لعبة قرد لعبة قرد لعبة قرد الحديقة لعبة قرد الحديقة لعبة ماتريكس لعبة ماتريكس لعبة كرة قرد لعبة كرة قرد لعبة قرد طائر لعبة قرد طائر لعبة داما لعبة داما لعبة قوة لعبة قوة لعبة قوة القتال لعبة قوة القتال لعبة ثنائية لعبة ثنائية لعبة قوةاليد لعبة قوةاليد لعبة حقيقة لعبة حقيقة لعبة حقيقة ذكائك لعبة حقيقة ذكائك لعبة حقيقة التصويب لعبة حقيقة التصويب لعبة ولد وبنت ثنائي لعبة ولد وبنت ثنائي لعبة سباق سيارات 2008 لعبة سباق سيارات 2008 لعبة ثنائية عريس وعروسة لعبة ثنائية عريس وعروسة لعبة سباق سيارات لعبة سباق سيارات لعبة سباق سيارات حول العالم لعبة سباق سيارات حول العالم لعبة فيفا كرة القدم لعبة فيفا كرة القدم

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eve isk[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by samezhen on Wed Jul 23, 2008 at 01:37:57 AM PDT

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