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Big Blue Going CD-less?

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Aug 09, 2004 at 12:49:40 AM PDT

Most of the complaints we've heard about CD-less recovery systems have involved HP, but other PC manufacturers are also increasingly using hard-drive based recovery systems. One reader recently found out to his chagrin that this includes some systems from IBM.

"I purchased a new IBM ThinkPad T41 laptop," the reader wrote. "It arrived configured the way I ordered and booted first time. The problem: there was no hard copy CD for any of the installed software or software operation instructions. There was a thin owners manual that said there was a special hidden 'recovery partition' on the hard disk. You can access the recovery partition during boot to reinstall all of the software, including the Windows XP PRO, to the factory default settings, but all user installed preferences and software will be lost. There was also instructions about how to use a 'snapshot' feature, similar to the 'GOBACK' program."

The reader did not want to get caught without back-up CDs. "I have a fundamental problem, based on very painful past experience, with not being able to perform individual program 'selective' install, especially the operating system," the reader wrote. "Almost universal tech support advise for misbehaving programs is to remove and reinstall, even Microsoft advises to use the repair feature of Windows 2000 and XP. A call to IBM tech support and customer service was no help. 'We do not furnish hard copies of the OS or individual programs. We can send you a CD of the recovery program but it will not allow selective install.' A search of Microsoft.com did not produce an email address that would accept and respond to questions. Saying the OS was installed by IBM just linked to the IBM web site."

System manufacturers should at least make it clear before the purchase that the system does not come with recovery CDs, the reader argued. "I purchased the computer and the software and even received an official Microsoft hologram and product key for the Windows XP Pro. I also expect to receive a hard copy of the software, especially the OS, just the same as if I had purchased the software separately. Windows XP product pirating is not an issue especially with product activation. The IBM/Microsoft policy is just wrong and abusive, in my opinion. Again consumers are not being told, at the time of sale, that the product is not as advertised. That is, yes you can re-install the operating system but you will loose all of your data and user-installed applications. I feel very strongly about the issue, but frustrated by the IBM response and lack of being able to contact Microsoft."

< The Mystery License | Doom is Coming, Doom is Coming, Doom is Coming >

Big Blue Going CD-less? | 37 comments (37 topical) | Post A Comment

Big Blue[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 09, 2004 at 07:20:48 AM PDT

I agree with you - one important way to let IBM/MS know how you feel is to refuse to do business with them. Return the thinkpad for a refund, and buy one from a company that will give you the support you've paid for.

These practices exist because consumers accept them without much of a fight. Do your part to fight them by just saying "no".

[ Reply to This ]

no program discs with computer[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 10:46:57 AM PDT

I don't understand why the relatively small cost of supplying the discs is something companies would want to fight about. Can't you company network administrators tell the HP and IBM salespeople that you're not going to buy their products unless they include the CDs with the original programs?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

No Cds[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 01:57:26 PM PDT

I have purchased a Dell laptop, but after working with clients' IBMs have been planning on purchasing an IBM next time around. Not now! As a consultant, on the road much of the time, I carry my Dell Cds--just in case. If I cannot carry them and do specific reinstalls on a machine that has to demo specifics the next day, then I cannot purchase the computer. Sorry IBM--this stupid policy gets the results you don't want--the only way you might begin to pay attention to an end user like me is if I don't become your customer.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

And what do they say when...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 09, 2004 at 10:12:17 AM PDT

...you ask them what happens if the harddisk crashes? How do you recover from that? What if the unit is out of warranty, do you have to buy another harddisk from them? Sounds like a very subtle way to keep their fingers in your wallet, because no matter what, you have to go back to them if the HD fails.

[ Reply to This ]

They give you a restore CD[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by tscoff on Mon Aug 09, 2004 at 11:24:35 AM PDT

When the system crashes and the hard drive is replaced IBM will happily give you a restore CD which is the same as the restoration partition on the hard drive.

Been there and IBM happily shipped me the restore/recovery CD no questions asked.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

restore cd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 09, 2004 at 12:56:17 PM PDT

...so does that imply that the unit has to be under warranty or you have to pay ibm to replace the drive otherwise you can't get the cd? So if they have the cd's, why not just send them to people that ask?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

I don't know[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by tscoff on Mon Aug 09, 2004 at 06:50:25 PM PDT

I don't know. I always buy the three year warranties and I replace a computer the first time it has problems after the warranty runs out.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

IBM Restore CDs[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 10:31:30 AM PDT

Within the first 90 days you can request the CDs and they're free. Later than that and you have to pay for them. At least you do if you just wan them. I guess if it's under warranty and the drive gets swapped they'd have to ship you the cd with the replacement but I'm not sure.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Time is Money[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 11:07:22 AM PDT

What I hate about this is the amount of time that is needed to repair a system. It is frustrating in the first place that the only way to fix is to reinstall (all techs must be taught the 3 Rs in A+). But the fact that you might have to wait for the materials needed (that you own) to be shipped to you, burns me up. I use my computer to get stuff done. I hate to have to be down for a couple of hours, let alone a week. To me the latest policy of not including the recovery disks is like not including a spare tire on a car - just a can of fix-a-flat. OK for little problems, but when the tire blows, your day is done. When I look at systems, I look for ones that have the least amount of software included and then buy what I need myself.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

One reason I bought...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 09, 2004 at 10:22:46 PM PDT

an Apple. Between Nazi registration and lack of control over my own dang computer, I ditched WinTel and moved over to Apple - which at least is attempting to be open source.

[ Reply to This ]

Sony is now doing the same thing...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Mason on Mon Aug 09, 2004 at 11:20:41 PM PDT

In an older story here, someone wrote that their new Sony laptop came the same way [no recovery cds, full reimage only]. I mentioned that my two Vaios came with a full set of recovery CDs and the commenter surmised it was a new policy. Well, I just replaced one of the Vaios two weeks ago and ran into the same problem -- no recovery cds. If it hadn't been an emergency replacement, I would have returned the machine. Grr.

[ Reply to This ]

Sony doing the same thing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 09:56:53 AM PDT

I bought a Sony Vaio a few months back and they do not come with media. The do have a utility to allow you to make your own media or you can pay a small fee (I think it was $5) for them to send the media. This was not on the computer box but it was shown in the online documentation. One nice thing about the Sony system is that the individual applications may be removed and installed at will without restoring the entire system. I have installed and removed several of the applications for temporary usage. It still leaves the problem of reinstalling the OS or fixing it but this seems to be a near univeral problem.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Sony Doing Same thing...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 10:42:17 AM PDT

In addition, you loose about 10GB of space on your hard drive for this hidden partition. Only hope the recovery disks you make are good otherwise you are screwed.. Two methods of recovery - one put it back with the hidden partition, use the entire disk and resinstall from the CD/DVD's. If you use #2, (which I did), you will have to change the DVD's at least 15 times during the reinstall.... Looks like the person that wrote the reinstall was sadistic and put bits and pieces on alternate recovery DVD's. And no matter how small or big the problem the Helpdesk's only response is to reload everything.. Had a problem with Sony XP Media and the Helpdesk had me reload the system 5 times (every level up through tier 1) until I got so disgusted I cancelled the call. So now I do backups every other day or so.. seeing it wipes out everything.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

No OS CDs[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 11:12:40 AM PDT

Can't really blame Microsoft here. These mfrs have negotiated deeply discounted pricing in exchange for handling the support, including the cost burden of supplying hardcopy. How is this substantially different from OEM branding of hardware? Many Sony Vaio notebooks are made by Asus. Dell Inspiron notebooks are made by Compal and Quantex. Who do you call with a problem? Not the OEM supplier, but the contractor who negotiated the deep discount. They took on the burden of support. In the case of an OEM OS, IBM has obviously decided they were not getting value, in the form of increased sales, by supplying the hardcopy and the additional technical support inherent in offering more than "wipe & restore". Their competition reduced cost, allowing a lower resale price, by offering bare minimum support. And the competition was rewarded for doing so with increased sales. Blame the public. They bought, and continue to buy, on price, not value. I've been to many a meeting, formal and informal, where it had to be explained in words of one syllable or less that the initial cost had little to do with the actual cost. But that's a whole nutter can 'o worms.

[ Reply to This ]

Actually, you can blame M$..[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Reziac on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 01:28:20 PM PDT

Microsoft has made "no physical CD" a condition of some of their big OEM contracts, which the OEM must agree to if they want to preinstall Windows. Thus the system can ship with a recovery partition (or in some cases a "recovery CD") but NOT with a real Windows CD.

Naturally, the OEMs think this is fine because they pay much less per license for Windows, and when no CD is provided, save a few cents on that as well. To bean-counters, the aggregate from a few cents saved over several million units is well worth the fury from the few customers who recognise the folly of this practice.
~REZ~
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

If that's the case...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 12, 2004 at 04:30:06 PM PDT

If they're not allowed to *SHIP* CDs, they have absolutely NO excuse for not allowing us to *create* our own, particularly since just about all PCs at least have a CD writer. I would be just as satisfied with that.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

no media, or 'almost the same' media[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 12:07:26 PM PDT

I recently used the restore media supplied with a customer's computer when they had a hard drive failure. the restoration was not the same service pack level as the original hard drive, and some of the applications were absent. not good......

For our own stuff, we use norton ghost. we make an image on cdrom or zip disk right after the machine is unpacked. we might make another image after department specific applications are loaded.
this has saved us a lot of time and grief over the past 5+ years......

[ Reply to This ]

IBM[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by jdostermanjr on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 01:03:06 PM PDT

This hits home.

I'm just breaking in a new ThinkPad R51 and after working for days trying to get it set up how I wanted, finally had to give in and let it stay setup as IBM purposed it to be.

For example, I have my own ideas regarding drive partioning, and right or wrong, I should be able to apply them to my own (expensive) property.

But then sending the thing back to IBM in order to 'send them a message' won't work since I have strong reasons for choosing IBM over the others.

Kind of depressing to have so little control.

[ Reply to This ]

How to Find Software[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 01:15:38 PM PDT

As someone already stated, you can call IBM's help desk and get a recovery CD, which will restore the whole system. It is my understanding that Microsoft has tight restrictions on the OEMs nowadays for distribution of "recovery CDs". If someone wants the parts and pieces, simply go to the vendor's support site. IBM's site is here: http://ibm.com/pc/support In about 30 seconds, I found the software that comes for the T41. http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-46258 http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=AIBM-INDEX

[ Reply to This ]

Here's a REAL cheap & easy solution[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Big Al C on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 02:25:19 PM PDT

I found myself in somewhat the same position
as the writer with the HP, but slightly different.
I bought a computer at a garage sale and it was
priced right and booted with no problems.

The first thing I did when I got home was to
check the size of the Hard Drive's partitions.
I then whipped out my trusty Norton Ghost 2003 DOS
floppy with a batch file I wrote, put a DVD disc
in the burner and proceeded to make an Image of
the C: Drive to both the Hard Drive AND to the
DVD.

My usual routine is to put a floppy and blank
DVD in, Ghost does its thing and my computer boots
to my desktop without ANY other input from me at
all, thanks to the batch file.

When I add an new program, all I do is get the
old Ghost floppy out and make myself a sandwich
while the above is repeated. If I ever end up
with a bad file that has to be replaced, I know I
can always find it in the initial Image file I
made.

I consider Ghost 2003 as an insurance policy,
and a CHEAP one at that. There are places on
pricewatch.com that will sell the (legit) CD only
version of Systemworks 2003 Pro for $9.00 delivery
included! Even if you DO have a Windows Factory
CD and all CD's of the programs that you have
installed, what happens if you completely crashout
the system? Ghost makes an XP reinstallation
(EXACTLY the way it was when you made your last
Image file) a 10 MINUTE interruption and not a 4
DAY project!

Big Al

P. S. For anyone who's interested, below is a
copy of my batch file for Image creation to
the Hard Drive and to DVD.

My floppy has MS-DOS files, NOT Ghost's PC-DOS.

Floppy Contents:

aspi2dos.sys
aspi4dos.sys
aspi8dos.sys
aspi8u2.sys
aspicd.sys
Autoexec.bat
btcdrom.sys
btdosm.sys
Command.com
Config.sys
flashpt.sys
FXEject.exe
Ghost.exe
Himem.sys
mscdex.exe
oakcdrom.sys

This floppy has a program called FX Eject on it

too.

(ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/cdrom/
fxeject.zip)

which allows me to......

1. Burn a DVD Image of my C: Drive
2. Have the tray reclose (Ghost auto-opens it)
3. Have Ghost CRC Check the Image file on the DVD
4. Re-load Ghost
5. Make a duplicate Image to my G: Drive
6. CRC Check THAT Image
7. Then the computer reboots to Desktop by itself

The Autoexec.bat contents: (Remove all Line x's )

Line 1 @echo off
Line 2 Ghost.exe -clone,mode=pdump,src=1:1,dst=@CD1/CDR00001.gho -z3 -fx -sure
Line 3 FXEject.exe -c
Line 4 Ghost.exe -chkimg,N:\CDR00001.gho -sure
Line 5 Ghost.exe -clone,mode=pdump,src=1:1,dst=G:\01_Ghost\Newest.gho -z3 -fx -sure
Line 6 Ghost.exe -chkimg,G:\01_Ghost\Newest.gho -sure
Line 7 set comspec=c:\command.com
Line 8 c:
Line 9 cd\
Line 10 set winbootdir=c:\windows
Line 11 c:\windows\win.com

[ Reply to This ]

floppy disk[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:42:15 AM PDT

when i download files to fioppy and load to keybord it say corrupted file

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

CD-Less[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Boback on Tue Aug 10, 2004 at 08:31:12 PM PDT

I have an IBM R40 Laptop that also arrived without any recovery CDs. I asked IBM about the lack of CDs and they explained the recovery partition. After a few months (you know Windows), I needed to re-install and the recovery went perfect, except, any software, other than the operating system that was provided by IBM (Lotus 123 for example as part of Lotus Suite) was not recovered. After a few calls to IBM they sent me not only a complete set of recovery CDs but also the software CDs for all IBM provided software. So, yes, I would have liked a recovery CD up front but I was happy with IBMs response to my problem.

[ Reply to This ]

Re:As long as you're actually buying ASUS etc., ..[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Jeff Foster on Wed Aug 11, 2004 at 01:33:25 AM PDT

***Post Deleted***

My next laptop will be from *****. I'll get "real" backup CD's, honest prices, a Linux laptop (or dual boot if I prefer), the latest technology and great service.

Please do not advertise on our site. I may have let it go if it had been a stray comment, but I count 3 of the same ilk. If you had a legitimate point to make (which I think you did) please repost without the advertisement.

Thank You.

Jeff Foster

[ Reply to This ]

A sanitized version ...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by OldFossil on Fri Aug 13, 2004 at 10:15:43 AM PDT

Jeff,

I thought that was your policy, and the first of the three you mentioned did not include the name of the vendor. I was asked on this forum by someone else what the name was, and from that I assumed that it was an OK policy. I apologize for appearing to violate your rules, and would never have mentioned the name if I had known of your restriction. I think it is fair, and will never do it again, even if someone asks :)

Because I didn't save the post, I can't just repost, but here's the general idea:

Every major manufacturer is now an OEM for someone else's laptop. As we all know, there are only a few companies in the world, of which ASUS is the best known, that actually make the laptops everyone sells. My point was this:

Considering that everyone sells someone else's technology anyway, why not buy it from an independent dealer who will tell you who the real manufacturer is, will give you "real" backup CD's, and will charge within a few dollars of the "major" vendor? I'll never mention the name of my favorite such again, but rest assured that they can be found in your Yellow Pages or on the Web. Even some major component vendors will sell you "beige boxes" and commodity laptops. If you follow this route, I would suggest you check references, consider how long the company has been in business, etc. ... all of the things you would do to check out your local plumber or general contractor.

On a previous post, I suggested doing the same thing for desktops and low-end servers. The prices are competitive, the components generic, and -- if you get a good vendor -- the service knowledgeable and fast. I see no real reason to feel forced to take what the major vendors are offering in lieu of genuine parts and adaptable machines.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

generic systems[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by pcmedic on Mon Aug 16, 2004 at 04:41:38 PM PDT

I generally agree with Old Fossil's sentiments and reasoning here. But, I have always made an exception when it comes to laptops because they are such high maintenence and high price items. Take the following example: your 3.5 year old OEM laptop stops powering up. It's either a power supply or a motherboard/cpu issue. But does your original VAR/reseller have either of these components in stock -- probably not. So they must have the OEM send them the power supply and hopefully they still support the device (which they most likely don't past a certain point in time)and have it in stock. If they do and it solves the problem then great. If not, then we have to hope they have the motherboard and/or CPU in stock. Either way we're talking about a lot time for the end user and a big potential expense for the VAR that they may not want to enter into just to troubleshoot a unit that the customer may ultimately say "no that's too expensive to fix - I'll buy another one" My experience and instinct tell me to go with an established Big Name Vendor and send the unit back to them (where the parts hopefully are) and hope they can troubleshoot and fix it in a timely and cost effective manner. My big gripe and hope for the future is that some day we consumers and we that advise consumers will have some sort of trusted resource that can tell us which manufacturers supply the best most long lasting components and which mfg support their units the best into the future.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

A bit of respectful skepticism[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by OldFossil on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 04:44:40 PM PDT

I'd like to see a case where a "big name" manufacturer actually delivered the type of service you hypothesize on an over-three-year-old out-of-warranty laptop. A recent case! Everyone was better at this five years ago than they are now.

And for a matter of pure fact, it's highly likely that a new machine will indeed cost less to buy than an old one will cost to repair. I agree in advance that the economics are screwy about this, but I have certainly found it to be the case more often than not.

Finally, I'm not convinced that you would really have that kind of trouble with a good VAR. I certainly haven't. For example, my oldest server actually uses a 50-pin SCSI interface for the hard disc drives. I recently upgraded one of the drives. When I noticed that it had a 68-pin interface, I asked for a 50-pin version. They could not find one -- disc drive manufacturers had stopped making them -- but they could and did find a 68-pin to 50-pin adapter plug that worked just fine. They had the adapter in stock! While this doesn't guarantee all behavior, it does seem to me to indicate that stocking compatible power supplies for laptops they sold over three years ago would not be beyond their capabilities. And, frankly, if the motherboard is gone you might as well buy a new laptop. See above comment.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Generic and independents suck worse[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 06:35:32 AM PDT

OK mr smarty fossil, tell me where to fix my packard bell with the comp-usa sticker on it? I certainly won't go back to those idiots who tried to sell me an apple-only scanner and took 3 weeks to figure out why that won't work. And the PC I'm posting from, was originally from an independent, who went out of business, but I luckily found him in another business, so at least I got a motherboard upgrade so I could get to win98 necessary for broadband. But now I can't install any redhat beyond 6, and the redhat is ambiguous about whether that is correct or not, and I'm not about to spend days figuring out anaconda mess.

And to those who say buy a new brand name computer every 3 years or whatever, I figure I've saved $15000 over the last 12 years by not doing that. I can never tell what my customers are going to require anyways, so I just let them buy the latest and greatest, let their IS managers go bald with crap like XP.

But I am willing to listen to suggestions, I need something that will run RHEL or Oracle-friendly equivalent, as well as win stuff for to VPN to customers.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

A civil reply[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by OldFossil on Wed Aug 18, 2004 at 04:23:38 PM PDT

You make some very good points, but they tend to reinforce one of my points: check references, buy carefully. For the record, I consider neither CompUSA nor Packard Bell to be the type of "beige box" independent I was referring to.

To your comment about not upgrading for 12 years, I'm with you to a point. I managed for six, but have just upgraded because I got tired of trying to use new hardware (USB2, FireWire, etc.) with a really old Southbridge chipset.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

My HP[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by marquiz on Wed Aug 11, 2004 at 04:31:31 PM PDT

came with a full set of CD's, but I have a second partition on the hard drive with two ghost images, one of the factory install, one with my current, very different configuration.

[ Reply to This ]

el cheapo,s[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 12, 2004 at 01:16:52 PM PDT

I think three word describe this type of system with no cd,s. Sleazy, Cheap,and Greedy jmho

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Two Ghost Images[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Big Al C on Thu Aug 12, 2004 at 03:24:21 PM PDT

Dear Marquiz,

As a Ghost user for 5+ years, PLEASE heed my

warning:

1. Get yourself Ghost 2003.

2. Install it so you can use Ghost Explorer to

view and extract files from the Ghost Images.

3. Create a Ghost DOS boot floppy.

4. Substitute MS-DOS files for Ghost's PC-DOS's

5. Reboot into DOS and do a CRC Check on both of

those Images you have.

6. If the Images pass inspection, in Windows use

your CD Burning program to copy those Images

to 2 CD's.

7. In DOS again, CRC check the two CD's you burnt

to make sure they are OK.

8. If all is well, you can delete the FIRST Image

since it is so old and is archived on that CD.

9. From now on, every time you install a new

program and all is working fine, use my batch

file to create a new image to your Hard Drive

AND to a CD/DVD. It is VERY important to make

BOTH Images. If your Hard Drive copy gets

corrupted, your CD/DVD one will save your

bacon. After restoring it from the CD/DVD,

just make a new Image to your Hard Drive,

since it is SO much quicker to restore from

the HD vs a CD/DVD.

Big Al

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Warning about backup and restore of new PC's[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Wizz on Mon Aug 16, 2004 at 03:34:50 PM PDT

Last weekend I purchased a Medion PC with a 160 GB disk from a major retail vendor. The PC came with XP Home. I'm upgrading it to XP Pro. I booted off my Ghost DOS disk and made a DVD backup. I then booted off of my XP Pro CD and started to upgrade it. XP setup couldn't determine what format the partition was. So I tried to restore it by booting back to my Ghost DOS disk but no go. The recovery partition was also not accessable. The Medion Recovery DVD would not boot the PC. Long story short, the original version of XP does not support disks greater than 137GB and when I booted off of the XP disk, it corrupted the partition table. It would not boot of any DOS disk, (MS DOS, PC DOS, Caldara DR DOS!) so I couldn't restore it. XP SP1 does support larger disks. Had I used XP SP1 I would have been OK.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

IBM provides you free software for recovery.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Victor on Thu Aug 12, 2004 at 07:11:22 PM PDT

IBM gives you Rapid Restore Ultra to back up your system and create restore points. They have an option to create bootable media but I have not tried this yet. You can save images to the hard drive and back up these images to a external hard drive or CD. I have used the software to create an image and then to deploy new set ups. I have also used it to recover a system with software problems. I know it is not the same as original CDs but I like that I am given software that allows me to update my system and then restore it back to the updated point instead of the original point and then applying updates.

[ Reply to This ]

No CD Computers[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by BobS on Fri Aug 20, 2004 at 11:53:33 AM PDT

It would be nice if IBM (and others) offered to sell their desktops like they do their servers -- that is with the option of purchasing the systems without the operating system. I'd happily pay a bit more to buy the systemless hardware and then configure an add-on option to purchase the full boxed version of XP (that would also give me the added benefit of setting up the hard disks the way I wanted).

[ Reply to This ]

IBM T41 and Install Disks[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 21, 2004 at 07:50:10 AM PDT

I purchased a T41 in Feb of 2004. I am delighted with it. I think this reader has not fully explored the capabilities of the IBM back up system. The hidden partion maintains the factory install AND, additionally, backups of the current configuration may be made to this partion . IBM explains this in detail. The most recent version of IBM's Crash and Recovery Software also permits making backups to an exteral USB drive (ANY brand). I find their Crash and Recovery software to be the best I have found on any machine. Fritz K

[ Reply to This ]

Egotistical[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by Anonymous User on Sun Jul 10, 2005 at 02:26:19 PM PDT

Just because you are delighted with it does not mean every user will be. It is rather egotistical to assume that simply because you like something that it will be appropriate for everyone's tastes/specific configuration needs. In fact, it is precisely that sort of thinking that locks us into these systems to begin with. I happen to dislike IBM's solution because it wastes several gigabytes of space on a hard drive that I paid for, and is causing me grief while I try to install linux. I've spent 6 hours this afternoon trying to get myself a set of restore CDs, and that's 6 hours I could've used being productive on another project.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Brand new unlock Nokia N91 at $220[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 10:09:07 AM PDT

Hello buyers. These is Ericson Laja of ericsonlaja store inc.I have a good news for you.I want you to buy your phones,ipod,mp3 player,laptop at a very cheap price .If you have interest mail me at (ericsonlajastoreinc@yahoo.com) or call us(+2348025623329) .The goods price are place bellow thanks for you inquiry. Best regard Ericson Laja mp3 player Mp3 Player Price List iRiver IFP-790T MP3 Player = $80 H10 6GB MP3 Player = $120 Sonic Impact Technologies 512MB MP3 Player w/ Flash Drive & Voice = $85 iriver H10 5GB MP3 Player, Gray = $110 YP-MT6X Yepp 512MB Portable Compact Digital Music MP3 Player = $70 Zen Micro 5 GB MP3 Player - Dark Blue [ Creative Labs = $100 iRiver 5 GB MP3 Player (Silver) = $110 Creative Labs NOMAD Jukebox Zen Xtra 30 GB MP3 Player = $90 Sony MZ-NH600D 1GB MP3 Player Hi-MD Walkman Digital Music Player = $90 Network Walkman NW-HD1 20GB MP3 Player = $150 Cowon iAudio X5 20GB MP3 Player = $110 Digital Audio Players from Motorola: Audio MP3 Players, Digital = $70 Gigabeat Meg-F60S 60GB MP3 Player - Gray = $155 Sony 1GB Personal MP3 Player, Network Walkman = $100 Creative Zen Micro 6GB MP3 Player (red) = $125 laptops SONY VAIO A217S-- 100GB-- 512MB RAM-- XP HOME-------------$300 SONY VAIO B1VP-- 40GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP PRO--------------$330 SONY VAIO T370P/L-- 60GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP----------------$200 SONY VAIO A215Z 60GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP------------------$2450 SONY VAIO A397XP-- 80GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP----------------$300 SONY VAIO B100B08 60GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP---------------$250 SONY VAIO B100B08 60GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP---------------$400 SONY VAIO FS295VP 80GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP---------------$350 SONY VAIO FS215Z 100GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP---------------$350 SONY VAIO A417M 80GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP-----------------$450 SONY VAIO B1VP-- 40GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP PRO-------------$200 SONY VAIO T370P/L-- 60GB HD-- 512MB RAM-- XP PRO----------$400 SONY VAIO LAPTOP-- VGN-A117S---------------$400 phones Nokia N91 220$ Nokia 6060 145$ Nokia 6111 132$ Nokia 6270 125$ Nokia 6270 115$ Nokia 6280 125$ Nokia N90 115$ Nokia N70 115$ Nokia Vertu 155$ Nokia 5140i 125$ Nokia 6230i 115$ Nokia 8800 105$ Nokia 6021 105$ Nokia 6030 115$ Nokia 6680 125$ Nokia 6681 120$ Nokia 6101 110$ Nokia 6822 110$ Nokia 7710 110$ Nokia 6170 145$ Nokia 6260 145$ Nokia 3510i 95$ Nokia 6630 120$ Nokia 9300 110$ Nokia 7260 120$ Nokia 7270 110$ Nokia 7280 120$ Nokia 6670 110$ Nokia 6020 120$ Nokia 3220 65$ Nokia N-GAGE QD 75$ Nokia 7610 120$ Nokia 9500 145$ Nokia 5140 85$ Nokia 6610i 120$ Nokia 7200 133$ Nokia 6230 145$ Nokia 6820 120$ Nokia 7600 105$ Nokia 6600 120$ Nokia 6800 105$ Nokia 6220 120$ Nokia 6620 120$ Nokia 7250i 65$ Nokia 8910i 120$ Nokia 6100 95$ SAMSUNG D600 155$ SAMSUNG P860 165$ SAMSUNG P850 sidekick 1 $110 sidekick 2 $100 Sony Ericsson K500i.....130 USD Sony Ericsson P800......200 USD Sony Ericsson P900......260 USD Sony Ericsson P910i.....270 USD Sony Ericsson T230......80 USD Sony Ericsson T310......80 USD Sony Ericsson T610......100 USD Sony Ericsson Z1010.....180 USD Sony Ericsson Z200......90 USD Sony Ericsson Z600......130 USD Sony Ericssson T630.....130 USD Sony Ericsson S700i.....170 USD Sony Ericsson S750i.....170 USD 9806LL/A) MP3 Player = USD$110 Motorola A388C......170 USD Motorola A760.......250 USD Motorola A768.......260 USD Motorola A768i......200 USD Motorola A780.......290 USD Motorola C550.......90 USD Motorola C650.......100 USD Motorola E365.......100 USD Motorola E398.......120 USD Motorola E680.......240 USD Motorola RAZR V3....270 USD Motorola V220.......170 USD Motorola V303.......100 USD Motorola V400.......150 USD Motorola V500.......150 USD Motorola V501.......200 USD Motorola V525.......150 USD Motorola V600 (OEM) w/ Bluetooth Headset..260 USD Motorola V600 OEM...180 USD Motorola V690.....170 USD Motorola V750.....180 USD Motorola V80......200 USD Motorola V80 with Bluetooth...260 USD Motorola V872.....200 USD Motorola V878....180 USD Motorola V300....150 USD Samsung D500...240 USD Samsung E600...140 USD Samsung E800...180 USD Samsung P510...120 USD Samsung SGH-D410.200 USD Samsung SGH-D500..270 USD Samsung SGH-E700..150 USD Samsung SGH-E715..170 USD Samsung SGH-P100..130 USD Samsung SGH-P400..95 USD Samsung SGH-P408..240 USD Samsung SGH-P730..150 USD Samsung SGH-S200..90 USD Samsung SGH-S300..70 USD Samsung SGH-S300M..100 USD Samsung SGH-S500...100 USD Samsung SGH-V200...110 USD Samsung SGH-X400...100 USD Samsung SGH-X430...100 USD Samsung SGH-X600...100 USD Samsung X450.......100 USD ipods Apple iPod from hp 40GB = USD$150 Apple iPod from HP 20GB = USD$120 Apple iPod U2 Special Edition 20GB = USD$130 HP Apple iPod / 40GB / Click Wheel / MP3 Player = USD$170 Apple iPod MP3 Player, 20gb = USD$115 Apple iPod Shuffle1GB MP3 Player = USD$85 Apple iPod for Windows - Digital player - 10GB Hard Drive = USD$130 Apple iPod 40GB 3rd Gen M9245LL/A A1040 = USD$140 Hewlett Packard Apple iPod from HP 20GB With Click Wheel = USD$95 Apple Ipod 20GB 4th Generation = USD$130 APPLE iPod mini Player 4G Light Blue Model M9802ZP/A = USD$93 Kingston Apple iPod from hp 40GB with Click Wheel = USD$140 iPod Mini 6GB = USD$145 iPod 60GB = USD$170 iPod Mini 4GB = USD$105 Apple iPod shuffle (512 MB - M9724LL/A) MP3 Player = USD$80 Apple iPod mini Green Second Gen. (4 GB - M9806LL/A) MP3 Player = USD$110 (ericsonlajastoreinc@yahoo.com)(+2348025623329)

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