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PayPal's $2,000 Spending Limit

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Aug 30, 2004 at 12:43:37 AM PDT

How should an online financial services company treat its loyal and reliable customers? Well, it could refuse to have anything more to do with them unless they provide additional personal financial information to "verify" who they are. That seems to be PayPal's approach, anyway.


In the last month I've seen a flurry of gripes from readers who have been informed by PayPal that they have now reached the $2,000 limit puts on payments funded from accounts with only a registered credit card. Per the PayPal terms of service regarding payments, therefore, the customer would be required to "verify" their account by registering a bank account as well.

"My view is that this is an obtrusive intrusion into my privacy and potentially dangerous," wrote one reader. "Maybe I shouldn't be so sensitive -- my bank account and routing numbers are on every check I write -- but I see no reason for them to have that information. I use PayPal for buying small things on eBay, and it's taken me over three years to flow $2,000 through the account. Since the limit seems senseless, I assumed they would revise it, let me start over or whatever ... I called them and was told that I have to become 'verified' and the only thing they accept now is bank account information. I was also told that if they made an exception for me, they'd have to make an exception for everybody. I am torn between opening a bank account just for PayPal or just abandoning an otherwise convenient service."

"If I'd run up $2,000-worth of charges a few weeks after opening my PayPal account, I would understand the need to put a hold on my purchases," wrote another reader who is reaching $2,000 in purchases after five years with PayPal. "There has been no disputes over any of my purchases or sales before this, and both (PayPal parent) eBay and PayPal have profited from my business. To freeze my ability to make a small bid at this point due to an artificial limit is outrageous! They are quite simply punishing me for being a good customer for so many years."

The limit does indeed seem to put less trust in customers with the best track records. And that makes some readers to wonder what PayPal's motives are for such a policy. "Why does PayPal bully you into 'verifying' your bank account details?" mused a four-year PayPal customer. "Why does it want to deprive you of the inherent protections of making credit card payments? I have written PayPal and challenged them to prove they can safeguard the security and privacy of my bank account details. I've pointed out that eBay's filings with the SEC acknowledge PayPal's business risks include the potential exposure of customer data from security breaches or employee fraud. Based on these clear risks, PayPal has no right to demand that I provide it with my bank account information. I have yet to receive a response from PayPal."

The sudden burst of complaints about the $2,000 limit certainly made me wonder if it was a new policy or perhaps somehow related to the recent PayPal class action settlement. A PayPal spokesperson, however, says the policy has been in effect for a number of years. "In the early days we had no limit, but that exposed us to a greater risk of fraud," the PayPal spokesperson said. "We do understand the verification process can be slightly inconvenient, and -- particularly for established good buyers -- we are going to be looking at the $2,000 amount to see if it's something we need to change."

In my humble opinion, it's not the amount that needs to change; it's the policy itself. Of course, PayPal should (and does, from the gripes I've heard) suspend any transaction that its fraud models flag as suspicious. But a fraud model that automatically penalizes loyal customers for having done a certain amount of business through the years needs some serious re-thinking.

< Fine Print Follies | Freebie Privacy Policies >


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PayPal's $2,000 Spending Limit | 68 comments (68 topical) | Post A Comment
Paypal should be avoided at all costs[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by wantobe on Mon Aug 30, 2004 at 02:42:01 AM PDT

Though many people have used Paypal for some time without problems, the potential for abuse is so great that it's amazing to me that anyone uses them at all. In fact, there are many examples of where Paypal has used its position to screw over some of their clients. No Paypal is just one site where you can read the horror stories of innocent people who used the service and had money stolen from them (Paypal claimed the transaction was suspicious and suspended the account with no warning). Just try contacting Paypal directly when they do something like that to you.

Under no circumstances should anyone ever give their bank information to Paypal. They'll suck your account dry the first time they think they can get away with it.
Rob Miles
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Letter to Meg[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by trashpicker on Mon Aug 30, 2004 at 07:42:35 AM PDT

I've found the $2000 limit to be utterly exasperating as well. A few months ago I sent this email to Meg Whitman, CEO of eBay:

--------

Meg;

As a longtime fan of eBay and a colleague in the ecommerce space (I help manage a $3M/day ecommerce brand), I am compelled to express my concerns to you regarding your PayPal unit.

I've been buying and selling on eBay since 1999 and using PayPal almost as long. In the past few months I have come to realize that I am nearing my PayPal 'spending limit' and am confronted with a major decision: should I share my bank account information with PayPal?

I don't share such information easily. The growing prevalence of Identity Theft concerns me, as does the deafening chorus of PayPal detractors. A search of the web reveals numerous stories of PayPal siezing accounts and otherwise abusing their position and offering no customer value for the fees charged its customers. In the past, I have not been comfortable with this, taking solace in the fact that my credit card provider would help insulate me.

However, now that I am approaching my spending limit, these issues must be addressed. And, I fear that the way I am addressing them may be very typical for your customers and could pose a risk to your business.

The way I'm dealing with these PayPal concerns is by NOT dealing with them. I am increasingly reluctant to shop eBay (because every purchase now counts against my precious spending limit), and will no longer sell on eBay because (to my chagrin) even funds that I raise in sales count against the arbitrary PayPal spending limit.

The only alternative that I have is to open a passbook savings acount or similar, expressly for the purpose of attaching it to my PayPal account, but, I ask, "why should I?" I've been a consistent, well-rated buyer and seller on eBay, Half.com and PayPal for 5 years. I can't think of another business that I've dealt with that responds to 5 years of positive business relationship by demanding that I provide additional information or an unnecessary verification of my identity.

Meg, have you researched your customer-base to identify how many customers like me are unwilling to share their precious banking information, and as such stop using eBay and PayPal? You should. I know that I am not alone (my wife counts as another and I have several friends who are in the same predicament).

Proposal:

-Offer to extend spending limits to customers with more than 3 years of membership &/or a feedback rating of 50+. Measure the response you see from these customers - it might surprise you.

-Provide a way for these estranged customers to share their (positive) experience with their friends and others.

-Seek to repair the soiled image of your PayPal unit and offer alternatives to providing banking account information. Trust is earned, and PayPal has done more to destroy the public's trust than earn it.

Thanks for your time,

<sig>
---------

In a dialogue that followed, "Michelle", ultimately told me that my concerns about PayPal were unjustified, that confirming my identity kept their (and my) costs down, and that PayPal's Fraud Protection was sufficient for my protection. I detailed why each of her points were invalid, in my opinion, and recieved no further response. Not surprising. Eventually, I decided to open a passbook savings account with another bank and to ferry my funds back and forth using online banking, being sure to limit the funds in my "eBay Account" to only what I was currently spending.

See the full PayPal Limit/eBay/Meg Whitman email string here.

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Re: Letter to Meg[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 02, 2004 at 11:48:10 AM PDT

Dude, you wasted a perfect opportunity to prove your point. In your letter, you state that PayPal will lose customers if it doesn't change its policy, yet you chose to remain a customer. They're not going to change the policy until customers start walking.

Right now PayPal obviously believes that they won't lose customers over this policy and you quite eloquently proved their point by writing a letter threatening to leave and then just giving in to their request anyway.

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Your're right.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 03, 2004 at 08:47:44 AM PDT

You're absolutely right. However, as most eBay users know, the dominance of PayPal makes it a near necessity to do business on eBay. What I have done is opened accounts with some of their competitors, and when I sell I will promote the competing services on my auctions and only use PayPal as a last resort.

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Help[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#54)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 21, 2005 at 05:40:34 AM PDT

i need a paypal account number is balance ok

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Letter to Meg[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
by goblin072 on Sun Jul 24, 2005 at 05:49:05 PM PDT

I agree with you 100% but you did one thing I did not. You stayed with paypal. I walked. Get some guts and use money orders. They know that our lazyness will win out. You just proved them correct. They beat you, they figure 90% will not quit paypal even though they are not happy. Way to stick to your guns!

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Is PayPal an online financial service company?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by RocDoc on Mon Aug 30, 2004 at 08:17:29 AM PDT

I question the statement that PayPal is an online financial service company. I, too, have a personal horror story dealing with PayPal, to the tune of a $200 loss and having to close all my banking and credit card accounts associated with them to stop an even higher dollar amount loss.

I chose to become "verified" with PayPal several years ago, so that I could do an online trading business on eBay and other web-based sales systems. In doing so, I added my personal checking and VISA account information (with "Bank A") with PayPal per their requirements.

In August 2003, I added a business checking account with a new bank ("Bank B") and updated my PayPal accounts to reflect the removal of the personal checking and VISA information through "Bank A". I replaced it with the business checking and VISA information through "Bank B" so that I could properly manage my online business transactions.

Six months later (February, 2004), I received an unsolicited debit from my "Bank A" personal checking account through PayPal. This is the one that was supposedly removed from PayPal's records. The debit was from an online web hosting agency that had decided to automatically renew my annual subscriptions with them without my permission (fodder for another story, but I digress).

I protested the debit with my bank, only to be told that the debit was pre-authorized and that I'd have to deal with PayPal to have the transaction stopped. It was then I was told by my banking accounts representative that PayPal is NOT a "financial institution" as defined by federal statutes and does not have to comply with federal banking regulations. They are, instead, a financial "clearing house" for credit card and certain types of ACH and EFT transactions, similar to a brokerage, with a completely different set of rules. (However, I understand that this status may have changed within the last six months.)

PayPal refused to rescind the transaction, even after repeated attempts to stop this issue. My only recourse was to close my personal checking and VISA account with my bank of 15 years in order to stop the possible additional unauthorized transactions. I also closed my PayPal account immediately, as well as my business checking and VISA accounts since they were on file with PayPal. Side note, I also closed my account with the web host, but only because of their decision to start the auto renewal billing system without my approval.

Final thoughts and warning: Do Not Trust Paypal With Your Personal Or Business Financial Information. And, yes, I have registered in the class action suit against PayPal as my experience in this issue qualifies me to do so. I feel fortunate as my loss was small, comparatively speaking, and I view it as another tuition payment in the school of hard knocks.

[ Reply to This ]


Re;[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#72)
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PayPal Want You to Use Your Bank Account[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 30, 2004 at 03:16:35 PM PDT

I had a large surplus in my PayPal account and had to register my bank account with PayPal just to get hold of my own money. As it turned out, doing so made that checking account my default source of payment. The procedure was such that I ended up making payments out of my checking account instead of the desired credit card--even when I hit the checkbox to use my credit card, it would go back to the default when it didn't like how I filled in the data. I had to remove that bank account from the list and am now approaching PayPal limbo myself, even though I am technically a verified user. Rob

[ Reply to This ]


Post your comment below and then please answer the[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#73)
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paypal and credit cards[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 09:16:11 AM PDT

Like many people, I use Paypal for small online transactions, and do so while holding my nose. (If anybody has better alternatives to suggest, I'd be happy to hear them.) But it's pretty clear to me that although paypal bills itself as a way people can easily accept credit cards, they in fact go to the greatest lengths possible to discourage anybody from using a credit card to fund their paypal account. I believe this is for one or both of two reasons, neither of which I have any evidence to confirm: 1. The cost to paypal to process credit card charges is higher than to do bank account transfers. (interestingly enough, a generic paypal user can receive bank transfers from other users with no fees attached. However, once you upgrade to a "merchant" account to allow you to accept credit card payments, you will be charged fees not only on credit card payments, but on bank transfers which you receive.) 2. In the event of any dispute, the specter of credit card chargebacks will enter the picture. And I suspect paypal doesn't like it when somebody involved in a disputed transaction requests that their bank void a credit card charge.

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Why Paypal wants your checking account.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 11:16:13 AM PDT

I went through series of emails complaining about the need for checking info with Paypal. The answer I was given was that when you opened a bank account you had to show ID in order to receive the account and thereby prove your identity. I never understood why if I had a valid credit card that wasn't proof enough. Afterall the same fake ID can get you credit or a bank account. I eventually decided not to get involved with PayPal, as there only motivation was to get access to my funds through a method that left me no resource for recovery. They have no real reason for requesting this type of info other than that. If they were truly concerned about my identity they would run a credit check and verify my address and other info.

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$2000 Limit -[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by mcmldude on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 11:37:00 AM PDT

I also got burned with their new process (started a year back). During an ebay purchase it popped up and I couldn't pay the bill until I was "approved". So, I went in and put my bank info into their file and requested the bank acct as the alternate. After about 3 or 4 transactions, the bank statement came in and I found my bank account was used to pay the bills. There was no way I could change the order of payment options, so I'm now forced to edit the transaction each time I use Paypal (which is not real obvious). I wanted the credit card to be the primary pmt option because of an ability to dispute transactions should an item not arrive or the item was not as described in ebay. It's too cumbersome to reverse bank transactions if it becomes necessary. I don't mind some process to prove who I am, just their method of payment to improve their costs and/or speed up cash flows without my knowledge.

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Why Paypal wants your checking account.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#50)
by goblin072 on Sun Jul 24, 2005 at 05:37:38 PM PDT

I have the same paypal problem. Its taken me a few years to reach the 2,000 spending limit. Instead of a reward you get bullied into getting Verified! They make it seem likes its a good thing. Why do they need your private banking information? Ans: so they can use it if needed someday. Maybe they get a system glitch that takes money out of your account. They keep the interest and refund the money some time later. I do not trust Paypal. Before I have a problem with them I am closing my account. Blockbuster video does the same thing. They will only let you get the 3 DVD per day/20.00 if you give them you credit info. They tell you they will never charge your account without permission. hehe, I know many people that they auto charged. One was my nephew, they did not get his permission, they took money from his checking account which caused him to bounce checks. They returned the money they took but would not cover the bounced check fees. Do not give Paypal your bank info. They are corrupt.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#100)
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Exactly[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#57)
by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 09:09:39 AM PDT

Paypal could offer the option...supply banking information...or incur the added expense of having them perform a credit check..or something in that fashion in order to be verified. I'm ID Verified with EBAY. They offer this at a cost of $5.00 In the ID Verify process a third-party company working with eBay confirms the member's identity by cross checking their contact information across consumer and business databases. If your ID is verified with ebay and your paypal account is connected to it...why then do i still need to be verified with paypal. It's obvious paypal has covert reasons for wanting your banking information...as there are other acceptible means of establishing valid identification.

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It costs them less...its all about money[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 11:22:29 AM PDT

I would believe that the reason they want your bank account is because if you will fund from the bank account...they win...no % fees from the credit card company... Its all about money. Who is profiting from higher gasoline prices? The BANKS who process the credit card fees your RETAILER is paying with his profit to process your transaction...he would love you to pay cash...just like ebay.

[ Reply to This ]


The real reason[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 11:30:30 AM PDT

I think the real reason is that we have much stronger consumer protection laws with credit cards than with electronic debits.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


One word - chargebacks[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:00:40 PM PDT

Yes, I believe the real reason PayPal wants bank account info, and tries to hard to steer you away from credit card funded transactions, is the almighty chargeback. I've actually filed two of them after an eBay seller disappeared and never delivered the goods. Both chargebacks stuck, and there's not been a hint of repercussion from either one. I did get an email from PayPal shortly after each, politely suggesting that next time I should follow their ridiculous "buyer protection" procedure - which I had ALREADY DONE in both cases! Here's my perception of how PayPal "buyer protection" works: 1) You file a complaint 2) A week or two goes by 3) PayPal responds that they were unable to recover any funds from the seller (read: the seller wasn't dumb enough to leave money in his PayPal account) and that there's nothing more they can do - end of story.

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charge back is why I'm ordering anything on-line[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 01, 2004 at 10:36:35 PM PDT

If not for charge back, I'd be out $200. I purchased a phone from a verified user. No phone. Complained to ebay and generated response that they couldn't get my money back. Luckily, I used Amex and disputed the charge. I got my money back. Think that'll happen if I'd let ebay "verify" me? No way!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


ebay[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 01, 2004 at 10:38:00 PM PDT

Sorry. ebay, Paypal, same company now.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Exactly, the chargeback is the only protection[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 02, 2004 at 10:30:17 AM PDT

Even if you follow the guidelines & purchase a product that doesn't ship from a "verified" user, you file the complaint with PayPal, two weeks later "could not recover funds". Then when we filed the chargeback with the credit card, we got an email from PayPal, almost stating that we did something wrong and asked us to use their complaint procedure in the future. After 2 months the chargeback still holds.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Chargebacks[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by jwboyes on Tue Jan 11, 2005 at 12:22:41 PM PDT

I hope my dispute goes as well as yours.  Reading all of this just before paying for an eBay transaction which turned out to be fraudulent may have saved me a few hundred bucks.  I made the change from bank to CC as described in some of the articles here just to do it (I actually prefer to pay from my bank account for which I would appear to be in a minority).

I'm glad I did.

JB

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



PayPal wants bank ID--why?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 11:43:00 AM PDT

I don't get it. If I bid on something and win, I use my credit card via PayPal to pay. What has this got to do with my bank account? Either my card clears, or it doesn't. If it does clear, they don't need my bank account info. Unless they want to "help themselves" to a little something when I'm not looking. My solution works like a charm. I don't use PayPal any more. Do they give a damn? I doubt it. They'll just find some other sucker to take my place. If they could give a straight answer why they're the only outfit in town that needs bank info to process a credit card purchase, maybe I'd reconsider. But I don't see that happening in my lifetime.

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It is unfortunate...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by auctionhugh on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 11:52:46 AM PDT

...but paypal is practically the only real online payment alternative out there that I know of now that c2it went under. I've yet to be burned, but I've heard of so many who have!

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[ Reply to This ]



Pay Pal, Ain't no Pal[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 11:54:54 AM PDT

I posed a question to my friendly banker regarding this situation of giving anyone the ABA and account number. The answer is as follows loosely quoted. Anytime you give out that number you are at their mercy. They then have the ability to make deposits to your account, but the also have the ability to debit (remove money !)from that account. This is a major reason I will never in my lifetime give PayPal or anyone else my account information. My banker also stated that the only way to stop this was to close the account and open a new one.

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It is all on the check[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 02, 2004 at 03:01:16 PM PDT

If you ever give anyone a check, they have this information. Is your banker saying that after you pay by check, they can empty your account and be legal? If that is so, the banking laws need changed quickly, and then worry about Pay-Pal screwing us!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Anyone can drain your bank account[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 03, 2004 at 07:10:24 AM PDT

Yes, all they have to do is jam a demand draft into the system. http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/ddraft.htm Not legal, but there you go. Other scams: http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Criminals/factoring.htm

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


That's nonsense[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by beamdriver on Sun Sep 05, 2004 at 04:27:50 PM PDT

I had a similar issue with a gym membership my wife signed up for. The money kept coming out, even though the membership was up. The bank said I'd have to fill out a form every month to stop the transaction from going through. They couldn't do anything.

Of course, that's nonsense. Of couse they could, and they were legally required to, but it was easier for them to give me the brush off than to deal with their jurassic-era computer system. After a little discussion with the branch mananger, I got everything straightened out.

Even though PayPal isn't a bank and isn't subject to banking laws...your bank still is. They can't just give out your money without your permission.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



PayPal Business Model[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:01:39 PM PDT

While PayPal pays the (Visa/MasterCard) credit merchant fees while passing (some of) them along to the seller, bank account transfers allow one of these fees to become pure (potential) profit for PayPal. Duh? Cut these particular operating expenses (nearly) in half? What a business genius!

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Paypal wanted my checking account information[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:01:55 PM PDT

About two years ago when I was asked to forward my checking account information I thought some bonehead was phishing for information. Now I find out that it probably was Paypal. I was near the magic $2000.00 limit with my purchases when I received the e-mail. When I responded, my questions were simple; what protections did Paypal get from having my checking account information that they didn't get from my 20 year old Visa account, and how will they guarantee that my information is protected. I also got the line that my checking account information would prove that I am who I say I am. Nope. Not good enough. When I use my card in a store, the merchant doesn't ask to see my checkbook balance. As far as protecting my information, I was sent some boiler plate nonsense about limited access by employees. Bottom line is that I spend much less time buying online. When I do make a purchase I use a credit card directly or send a certified check. Good job Paypal!!

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PayPal Spending Limit[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:19:10 PM PDT

I opened a Pay Pal account solely to send payments to eBay sellers who requested it. I used a credit card. I was unwilling to give them my bank account number, and now I'm glad I didn't.
I was unaware until just now that the $2000 spending limit was a lifetime limit! I thought that it was reset each month. Now that I realise my error, I will be less inclined to use Pay Pal in the future, and will instead revert to using money orders to make small payments except in those instances where payees require Pay Pal. Furthermore, I will inform every seller that "I won't use Pay Pal unless they rescind the $2000 limit." Perhaps if enough pressure is brought on Pay Pal, they will stop requiring people to verify their account with a bank account solely to lift the $2000 limit. One can only hope.

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Paypal beware ! Emailed money orders approach ![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by fight the MAN on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:22:47 PM PDT

There are a number of (actual) banks throughout North America that have begun to provide a money order transfer via email concept that I expect will quickly make Paypal obsolete. I've already seen ebay sellers support this type of payment system. Here is some info from a bank that supports it: http://www.cibc.com/ca/chequing-savings/article-tools/email-money-transfer.html

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Credit Card Processing Fees[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:35:20 PM PDT

This isn't about security, privacy or anything else, it's about processing fees. Online transactions, even for powerhouses like Amazon and EBay, incur huge per transaction costs for the merchant, usually a per item fee and a percentage of the transaction amount. Online fees typically exceed Point of Puchase (PoP) fees because they don't have a signature or PIN associated with the transaction. I'm sure that considering the huge volume of transactions, PayPal can increase its profits by driving its client base to a purer Automated Clearing House (ACH) model. Fees are lower for banking institutions utilizing ACH and that increases the spread between the seller fees and the cost of transaction. As usual, profit trumps service once again.

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The real reason is that ...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:42:23 PM PDT

Paypal wants you to start using THEIR Visa card! I received an e-mail promotion from PayPal today (link below). Notice that there is NO LIMIT if you use the PayPal Visa card. https://www.paypalcreditcard.com/NASApp/bap/nav/home.jsp

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Go on a Paypal diet![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:49:20 PM PDT

Just say NO to any transaction involving Paypal. Eventually you'll learn you can do without the items being sold using Paypal. In fact, when I ran an online sales site, I read Paypal's fine print and immediately decided I wouldn't accept it as a seller. I've never used it as a buyer, and I've always been able to find an alternate source to sell me something I really want, without using Paypal.

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Create an online persona[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:57:13 PM PDT

I signed up at Paypal in 1999 using a credit union savings account that does not allow electronic payouts but does allow electronic transfers in. I also only keep the minimum needed in that savings acct to keep it alive. It met Paypals verification requirement and eliminates Paypals ability to pass through unauthorized charges. I have had nothing but good luck with both Paypal and eBay other than the pain in the arse of having to select my credit card every time I use Paypal.

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Paypal Liability?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:03:54 PM PDT

Realizing that PayPal is saving on transaction fees, it still seems strange that they are opening themselves up to a huge liabilitity. If the banking information they are soliciting is ever compromised, this could represent a huge legal and financial liability. If it was me, I wouldn't want any information that was not absolutely vital to operating the business, anything beyond that is exposing oneself to unnecessary risk. But then, Paypal never asked me for my opinion.

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Paypal limits.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:57:55 PM PDT

I find it interesting that inspite of the limit, I have certainly spent quite a bit more than the limit. I did upgrade to the "premier" account some time ago, but I'm not "verified" because I'm not comfortable with giving out my information based on the horror stories I've read. Well, if I ever do get hit by the limit, I'll just have to stop shopping on Ebay which is pretty much the only place I need it for. That might be why I never came against the limit, almost all my transactions are payments for ebay auctions. Maybe some of the financial advisors can start to calculate the loss in potential income vs income gained and show that it's a stupid idea. I have no intention of ever getting a paypal credit card since I already have one through my bank that has no fees and the ability for me to pay online or through my ATM so I know that I will never be "late" and have to pay the insane fees involved.

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Don't Pay, Pal[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 02:08:59 PM PDT

Though I established a separate checking account just so I could give the number to Paypal, I avoid using it at all and encourage others to do likewise. Sooner or later, Paypal will become either irrelevant or will change their tune. Flawed business models have a way of being corrected by the marketplace. Even if eBay's behind them.

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PayPal[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 03:14:38 PM PDT

I cancelled my PayPal account just for this reason. PayPal says that verification is for my protection. When I emailed their support to ask how this helped protect me the response I got seemed to protect PayPal. I will not give anyone as untrustworthy as PayPal access to my bank account.

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PayPal[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 02, 2004 at 10:29:50 AM PDT

I will NEVER give PayPal my bank account number again. I was subjected to fradulent activity in my bank account (in and out) thru PayPal transactions. They never did come clean with me as to why this was allowed to happen. Once they have your bank account number, their systems can debit it at will.

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How to work with paypal's $2000 limit[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Reziac on Thu Sep 02, 2004 at 10:32:38 AM PDT

Firstoff, until about 3 years ago the limit was $1000.... count your meager blessings ;)  I think the people who say it's all about transaction fees have nailed it on the head.

Second, Paypal HAS been hacked in the past, and people have had their bank accounts drained. If you read the eBay user forums re Paypal, you'll see lots of horror stories. One person claims to have lost over $10,000; others say that they had overdrafts thanks to Paypal being hacked.

So, how to deal with this? Never, EVER give Paypal the information for your *primary* bank account. If you must use Paypal, and need an associated bank account, OPEN A SPECIAL ACCOUNT SOLELY FOR THIS PURPOSE, and never keep more than $20 in it. Make sure that it is NOT connected to your primary account, so overdraft requests cannot be paid from your primary account. Better yet, if possible open this "online account" in another bank entirely.

When you receive money into this account through Paypal, always transfer it out immediately.

Better safe than screwed.
~REZ~
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Lucked Out[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by srynas on Thu Sep 02, 2004 at 11:15:12 AM PDT

Used Paypal once for a seller who began to appear flakey after the purchase. As I was waiting for the purchase to arrive, I began searching Paypals website to see what my options would be if the seller didn't send the product. Basically, it appeared that I, as a buyer, had no rights at all. Fortunately, the purchase arrived. Also my purchase was "backed" by my credit card which would have allowed me cancel the charge anyway. Never again will I use Paypal.

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PAYPAL SPENDING LIMIT[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 02, 2004 at 12:03:29 PM PDT

None of you get it. Ebay-Paypal doesn't care how reliable you are. The reason they want the checking acct info is GREED!!! It costs them something every time you use your c card to pay and NOTHING every time you use your checking accnt. As soon as you are verified the checking accnt becomes the default payment method. Then you must jump thru a few hula hoops to switch back to the card for payment every time you make a purchase. Multiply 1% or so times a few hundred thousand transactions per day. That's what they'd save if everyone switched to checks. Of course, with much less protection for us users.

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Re: Greed[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by Howling on Thu Sep 02, 2004 at 01:04:54 PM PDT

The PayPal policy to lock on to your bank account is to controls in two area - initial transaction and disputes.

As stated in a couple posts, the raw costs for procesing credit cards are more than bank transfers.

The other major cost in online retail transactions is disputes and chargebacks. To control costs they want to control the process.

By design the credit card chargeback procedure gives  control to the consumer.  A charge is just a commitment to pay - you still have the money.  The merchant and/or processor have to prove the transaction to get your money.

With a bank transfer they have your money up front  and you have to follow their rules if you want any chance of getting it back.

It is the golden rule: He who has the gold rules.  PayPal is trying hard to put the gold in their pocket and make you beg for it when a transaction goes wrong.

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PayPal won't take my bank account info![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by WDWhurricanewaiter on Fri Sep 03, 2004 at 06:50:53 AM PDT

OK, so lot's of people say I shouldn't give PayPal my bank information. Well, I wanted to, to avoid the $2,000 limit. But get this: PayPal won't accept my bank information. You see, my checking and savings accounts are with an online bank, one that has no physical branches. I've banked there for at least four years. But PayPal always rejects my bank account info, simply because it's from an online bank.

I've written to PayPal twice over the past couple years about this and they won't budge. Instead, they want me to open a account with another bank! Blecch!

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Not sure what the fuss is about[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 10:09:29 AM PDT

I've been using PayPal for years, and I long ago provided a bank account.  Why not?  It's the easiest way to get funds in and out of my PayPal account.  If you start out thinking that PayPal is going to screw you, I guess it makes sense to worry about hooking up a bank account, but I've never had any problems.

The one time my account was frozen, I had just sold a domain name for about $10,000, and tried to pull the money out right away; PayPal worry about fraud, so they froze my account and required more information.  I gave it to them and they unfroze me within 48 hours, and I haven't had a problem since.

I've never been "bullied" by PayPal; they provide the service, they allow me to accept payments at a much cheaper rate than a bank card processing service would allow, and they set the rules.  I get to decide whether to use the service or not.  I find them useful, so I follow their rules.

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Actually, you are being bullied[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#42)
by Fushigi on Thu Nov 18, 2004 at 05:37:31 AM PDT

If a credit card company suspects fraud, they don't typically freeze your account; they call you. Or if they do freeze your account, you call them. Either way, once the transaction is verified, your account is unfrozen. Immediately.

There is no reason for the 48 hour delay except that PayPal has invested your money (probably as part of an aggregate with thousands of other accounts) in short-term interest-bearing loans/notes.

They want your money. Not so much for themselves (although that can happen) but to invest it to earn more profit. The longer they hold on to your money the more they can earn with it.

Paypal couldn't care less about fraud. If they did, you'd see people praising them for helping them resolve disputes. How often do you see that?



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Not sure what the fuss is about[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#52)
by goblin072 on Sun Jul 24, 2005 at 06:29:53 PM PDT

Count yourself lucky. Some people can walk down the worse section of a city at midnight and never get mugged. Just because he gets lucky I would not go around telling people its a safe neighborhood. He don't use a rubber you may never get aids either. Your ignorrance is cute but I would not go giving advice to others on finacial matters.

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Scared me away from Ebay and Paypal[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 12:58:15 PM PDT

While I am a devoted online shopper and rarely go to a store, I have never done business with Ebay or Paypal and from these stories I never will! Thanks for the heads-up on the lowlifes!

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Alternate Explanation, Off the Wall category[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous User on Thu Nov 18, 2004 at 12:28:56 PM PDT

Here is a wild hare out of left field (to mix metaphors): Perhaps the government is behind it, because they are afraid (or know) that paypal is being used to launder money. I'm really not much on conspiracy theories, but it seems possible that paypal could be used that way.

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I agree[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#49)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 08:26:24 PM PDT