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Disclosing DRM

By Ed Foster, Section Columns
Posted on Thu Jul 08, 2004 at 08:44:15 AM PDT

Shouldn't you be told a product has copy protection before you buy it? That's one of the questions raised by one reader's gripe about the Digital Rights Management (DRM) scheme used by Roxio on downloadable versions of its software.


"I have been trying to get Roxio to reactivate my serial number because I already installed their software three times," the reader wrote about a version of Easy CD & DVD Creator that she'd downloaded from Roxio's website several months earlier. "As I often use my system to test hardware configuration, I had recently had some trouble with a hard drive that I removed, reinstalled, and then made the second drive. I guess this caused me to use up the three activations Roxio gives you."

The reader had been unable to either re-download the software or to get Roxio to reactivate the program. "I used their customer service web mail to request reactivation, but all I got back was a classical 'don't call us, we'll call you' message that warned me not to submit additional e-mail as it might delay their response. I haven't received an answer -- any answer. Since they warn me that multiple letters may slow down service, I guess I get to wait until they do something or I die of old age."

Since DRM technology for software typically is tied to the user's hard drive, it is certainly not uncommon for someone like our reader to have to reactivate after re-configuring their hardware. Roxio's limit of three installations seemed a little tight, but what really struck me was the reader's inability to get Roxio to respond to her request. So I went to study the information on Roxio's website about their product activation and … I couldn't find any.

Now, for all the guff I've given Microsoft, Intuit, Symantec, etc. about their DRM, I must admit that they do provide a fair amount of information about their copy protection, at least if you look for it. With Roxio, though, the very existence of its activation scheme seemed to be almost a state secret. In fact, I went through the process of purchasing download versions of Roxio's current products right to the verge of submitting my credit card without seeing a hint of product activation/copy protection/DRM being involved.

The Roxio spokesman I contacted about the reader's plight explained to me that the majority of Creator 6.x and 7.0 customers don't have copy-protected software, because only the downloaded versions have product activation. "Roxio only includes an activation mechanism with its ESD (Electronic Software Distribution) version," the spokesman said. "Creator 7 was a mammoth development effort that was completed in an extremely short amount of time. We simply did not have the cycles to consider, test, and implement an activation mechanism for the retail version. For the ESD version, our third-party e-commerce service vendor offers an activation mechanism that had already been widely tested and could be implemented with little effort."

In other words, the ESD copy protection is something of a pilot program for Roxio. "Looking at ESD and activation, there is solid proof that it has had an impact in fighting piracy. We continue to consider including activation in our retail version in the future, but do not have firm plans to do so as yet."

Roxio's spokesman did graciously offer to look into the reader's situation if she wanted to contact him. She did so, and Roxio eventually determined that her software should be reactivated. So she's happy ... except, since she does reconfigure her system a lot, she wonders how long it'll be before she's stuck again. Had she known when she known when she downloaded that it was copy protected this way, would she have purchased it, or would she for the same priced have ordered the CD instead?

I think even those of us who don't mess with our hardware a lot would have the same answer to that question: give me the version without copy protection, please. If Roxio truly wants to use its ESD activation as a pilot program, it should make it clear to customers what they're getting before they put their money down. Only by honestly disclosing their DRM will Roxio get solid proof of the impact it will have not just in fighting piracy, but on their sales as well.

Update [2004-7-12 14:25:40 by Ed Foster]:As noted in this comment below, Roxio has now changed the "Download FAQs" on its website to give customers a more conspicuous notice of its product activation.

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Disclosing DRM | 24 comments (24 topical) | Post A Comment
Roxio[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 08, 2004 at 09:58:17 AM PDT

The only way to fight this is to use another product, and let Roxio know that you did so and why. Roxio's products are crap for the most part, they need to spend time debugging and not copy-protecting. I stopped using their products a long time ago because of bugs and lousy customer support, I see not much has changed! Personally, I use Nero from Ahead software, it has worked great, no problems, great price, and NO COPY PROTECTION!!!

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DRM notices[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 15, 2004 at 11:25:37 AM PDT

What appears lost in the diatribes against Roxio here is something that we should be protected by law against: no company should place DRM of any sort on a product without prominant notices that it is there (on the outside of the package - or early in the download process. I have had so many problems with activation/DRM schemes that I will not purchase products having these systems in place. Period. I used to spend about $1000 a year on Adobe products - now I spend none. I'm sure they don't miss me - but they would if everyone stuck to their guns and 10,000 like me protested in this way. We get what we deserve - mistreatment from vendors because we accept it. The only way to make change is using our pocketbooks. REMEMBER TURBOTAX!

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111[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:47:50 AM PDT

Free YouTube Downloader | YouTube to iPod | YouTube on PSP | YouTube to MP3 | YouTube to MP4 | YouTube to 3GP | YouTube to AVI | YouTube to MPEG | YouTube to WMV | YouTube to DivX | YouTube to XviD | YouTube to MOV | YouTube to WMA | YouTube Ripper

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Roxio 8.0[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Thorby on Thu Mar 09, 2006 at 08:22:03 PM PDT

Roxio/Sonic has solved the piracy problem. They have a piece of junkware that is so bad, nobody would want it even if it was free. I see no reason for them to even copy protect or even copyright this waste of disk space.

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Here we go again ...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by RocDoc on Thu Jul 08, 2004 at 02:15:46 PM PDT

Roxio claims that the copy protect mechanism deters piracy. So how much does Roxio actually lose from piracy (BSA over-inflated figures need not apply) and how much will they lose when the customer NO LONGER PURCHASES THEIR PRODUCT?

You'd think the vendor would get a clue when it's been well documented that this type of activation scheme hurt Intuit's TurboTax (no love lost there), 321 Studios DVD X Copy (now off the market for different reasons), and Micro$oft's Win XP. "Sherman, set the way-back machine" to 1984 and ask LotuSoft and Aston Tate about copy protection and their products: 1-2-3 and dBase III.

Dear Vendor,

Please Get A Clue! We won't buy it if we can't use it when and where we need it.

Sincerely,

John Q. Public


I agree the vendor MUST do something to protect their product from illegal or unauthorized use. But, come on! DRM? UCITA? Copy Protection Activation?

I get so disgruntled that I'm really looking into a new career. This one is almost unsalvageable due to the idiot issues of the day. Now I can't know if the product has an activation scheme or other copy protect mechanism until I buy it (and subsequently can't get my money back)?

Ok, Ed, let's brush off the dongle stuff again. That still gets my vote - as long as the vendor will stay in business and provide new dongles to match the industry hardware changes.

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Just say no to Roxio![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Mason on Thu Jul 08, 2004 at 04:34:49 PM PDT

Makes me feel even better about my long-standing decision not to buy (or even use if it comes "free" with hardware) Roxio products.  

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My Goat[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 08, 2004 at 08:01:41 PM PDT

This really gets my goat, pardon the expression. IMHO, this limited-number installation or other systems that require you to get special codes for installation are pure bull crap. You purchased this crap, but you eventually CAN NOT use it due to the limitations or the inevitable removal of support for the product in the future. I've been burned by a worthless company before(Birmy Graphics now known as Iproof)that had a similar scheme that eventually made my software useless when they decided to discontue support for the product. I don't really have anything to add, just expressing my rage I guess. :-(

-Chris W.

wmax@linaeum.com

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Company Statement[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Roxio on Mon Jul 12, 2004 at 11:10:48 AM PDT

We feel it is important to outline for consumers the full details surrounding Roxio's policy on activation. Roxio has had an activation mechanism included in its downloadable versions of Creator for over 2 years. The CD versions include no activation. The protection on downloadable product is included given the susceptibility of electronic versions to piracy. We've sold hundreds of thousands units of Creator 5, 6 and 7 via download and have not found activation to be a concern for our customers. This is due, in part, to Roxio's policy on activation which provides customers with an unlimited number of re-installations on any one PC and installation on up to three different PCs (or three different hardware configurations on one PC). We also offer a 15-day, money back policy on all ESD purchases. It is also important to note that customers may purchase a CD version of the software that does not include activation instead of the downloadable version if they feel the ESD version will not adequately meet their needs. To date we have not fielded any customer complaints related to where activation messaging is placed on our site; however, in response to the concerns raised here we have made changes to the site and made the information related to activation more prominent and appear earlier in the purchasing process. Finally, the Roxio customer/technical support team does not take a `don't call us we'll call you response'. Rather, customer/technical support responds in a timely manner and provides a telephone number to call to have issues such as the one you highlight addressed. An issue of this nature would be resolved immediately with a phone call. We hope this provides greater clarity. Roxio Inc.

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after product lifecycle?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by auctionhugh on Mon Jul 12, 2004 at 12:45:33 PM PDT

I can live with this, except what happens when the product is no longer supported? No more installs to updated hardware?

-----
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]



A timely manner[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 19, 2004 at 09:43:46 PM PDT

Here is the text of the HTML page I got after submitting my complaint to your customer service:
"Please be advised that as of January 2004 Roxio is re-engineering our entire Customer service operation - in the very near future you our valued Customers can look forward to enhanced self-help tools, a streamlined registration process and quicker response times from Roxio Customer Service. During this transition period we respectfully ask for your patience and understanding in our reply back to you. You will receive an e-mail response in the coming days addressing your specific issue. Please do not submit an additional email as this may delay our response."
That's what I called a "don't call us we'll call you" message. After over a WEEK, I had no answers, not even a "we're looking into your case". Is that what you call "respond in a timely manner"?

Why should I pay for a call caused by a protection for YOUR software? English is not my first language. Would I have been answered in french? I doubt it. As it was, I believed you would answer my Email within a few days (a timely manner) since in my naive understanding, you would act responsibly toward your customers.

About your 15 days money back waranty, it's worthless in this case. When the software let me down, I had it for a few month. If that had not been the case, I would have asked for my money back.

Every time you say that your CD version is without activation code so I should have choosen it, you ignore the fact that before Mr Foster's intervention, the fact was difficult to find at best. If I had known the CD version was without activation protection, I'd have buyed it instead of the download version. I've been against copy protection for any software with a useful life longer than six months. This implies I will avoid your products in the future.

Just to set the reccord straight, the first email I got from Roxio was after Mr Foster gave my a personnal adress to write to. This was over two weeks after my initial letter. Not in any way "a timely manner".

JR

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Roxio Easy CD Creator - Product Activation Problem[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by mkusernm on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 06:05:48 PM PDT

My Easy CD Creator 6.0's Project Selector (originally purchased as a downloaded version)stopped working one day and I was advised by Roxio support to re-install it. After re-installation, using the CD-Key provided by Roxio, Roxio Server would not activate it. It has been more than 6 months now that I am trying to get support from the Roxio. I received numerous suggestions from Roxio support. None worked. I still can not use the product for which I paid full price.

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Media Creator 8.0[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Thorby on Thu Mar 09, 2006 at 08:13:31 PM PDT

As far as I can tell from the last two days of trying to get this piece of garbage to function, it is a lost cause and I should have spent my money on a reputable product. As bas as this junkware is, it shines in comparison to the support available. Unless you want to waste further money on this waste of disk space, you may as well not even try to get assistance ad Roxanne is as defective as the product. This is truly a software scam on a huge scale. There shoul be a class action suit started against this company and similar ones base on known defective product sales and misrepresentation of goods. Any hungry lawyers out there?

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Roxio Company Statement[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 05:53:37 PM PDT

I'm finding it hard to believe that any Roxio representative would even try to claim that they provide customer support. So far I have spent about 3 hours on their website, which does not provide useful information, I've dallied with the "Ask Roxanne" assistance which is problem the worst example of interactive help yet. So far, I've only had response from customer assistance and it was pure bs, not even addressing the problem I had. The software fails to register and because of that, the "deluxe" version doesn't do half of what it's supposed to. Calling the phone number is almost useless because so far I've only been able to get the automated "Your call is important enough to us to ignore" message. If Roxio reads this, feel free to give me a call, my ticket number is:245611

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Product Activation not Roxio's only violation[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 14, 2004 at 07:07:07 AM PDT

I was first introduced to Roxio's Easy CD Creator (at the time, Adaptec) when I purchased my first CDR drive back in 1998. One of the reasons I chose the one I did was because it included a copy of Easy CD Creator in the box. I used it for a couple of years and , although it did crash and/or create coasters on a somewhat regular basis, I was satisfied enough with it (after all, it was a realtively new idea that the average consumer could afford to burn CDs on his home PC). I acutally upgraded the software after a year or two, to version 4, because it included the ability to read MP3 files directly and burn them to audio CD.
A couple of years ago I purchased a new machine which included a new CD-RW drive and an updated version of Easy CD Creator.
"Cool!" I thought, new features. Yeah, right.
When I installed the newer version (I think it was 5, but not sure), I soon found out that it was crippled. No longer could it read MP3 files (or other types), and other features were limited. It turns out that Roxio had decided to cripple the OEM version of the software (the version that is licensed by hardware manufacturers to include with their drives) in order to drive sales to their $100 retail product. Nice.
I promptly uninstalled that later version and re-installed my old version 4. It still works great, even with my newer CD-RW drives, and it is not crippled in any way.
But at that point Roxio lost any chance of ever seeing another dollar from my pocket - if you're going to OEM license your software, it had better not be limited so severely - the hardware manufacturer is almost certainly paying a licenese fee to Roxio, so it's not like they were giving the thing away to begin with.
Now, let's talk about the abomination that is Direct CD...

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ECC Sucks[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 14, 2004 at 07:25:29 AM PDT

After I had to upgrade CD Creator a third time solely because I bought a new CD-RW and ECC did not support the new drive, I switched to Nero and have not had to buy a new version since. I also don't burn coasters anymore and don't have odd interactions with ECC drivers. It still astounds me to read glowing reviews of ECC, it had numerous bugs and limited function in every version I bought. If it wasn't bundled with so many drives no one would have ever heard of it.

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Nero is doing the same thing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 01, 2005 at 10:02:47 AM PDT

Used to be that the full version of Nero came with CDRW drives. It was quirky but it worked -- it seldom crashed or wrote coasters, and everyone was happy.

For the past year or so, the bundled version of Nero is just "Nero Express". I have yet to get the nasty thing to work at all, neither on my own machines nor on clients' systems. Half the time it crashes, and the rest of the time it refuses to write a CD at all, or won't go above 4x speed, then stalls and makes a coaster anyway.

Presumably this is to drive people to buy the full version. Well, all it's done is make me feel no guilt when I have to pirate the full version to replace the crippled and NON-WORKING version that I'd already PAID for along with the new CDRW. I'll be damned if I'll pay TWICE just to get ONE working version of the software.

[BTW the OEM licensing fee for Nero is only $5.00, which is why it became so widely included with CDRWs in the first place.]

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Activtion codes ....[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 26, 2004 at 05:30:56 AM PDT

I can't even get a response from Roxio for a new activation code for Easy Media Creator 7 which I downloaded in July 2004. Early November, my PC broke and I lost my email with the activation code. I emailed Roxio the details of what had happened but the original reply from them was a standard reply based on certain key words and was just gobbledegook about how to download the software and apply the activation & bla, bla, bla. I have since sent several emails pointing out the error but have had no response. Does anybody have an activation code or know how to break the wall of silence in Roxio? Thanks Baz.

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Roxio Photo Suite & Video Wave[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 23, 2006 at 11:59:19 AM PDT

The manual is a waste of good trees. Mostly given over to archiving your photos. The video maker is unusable. After capture from the camcorder and before you can add transitions and edit the movie, the ?program makes an AVI file! This is just junk software and the claim that it is quote powerful unquote is a slur on the English language

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ROXIO Back Up My PC[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 12:30:08 PM PDT

I also have a problem with ROXIO. Their BackupMyPC software creates a backup file (on a separate hard drive). But if your C drive crashes, Roxio is unable to restore from the file. After several iterations with "technical support", the blocked my acciunt so I can't even log in anymore.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


lingering[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
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silent kiiler[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
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dsaf[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by samezhen on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 06:08:46 AM PDT

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m[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by msa6el on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 02:41:44 PM PDT

حارة المساطيل - مساطيلمواضيع مميزه - مواضيع ترحيب - مواضيع عامه - نكت - مواضيع مضحكه- عياره - زحف - صور رحلات- سياحه - تصوير فوتوغرافي - مواضيع اسلاميه - دعوه وارشاد -نقاشات - مواضيع جاده - منتدى الجاده - الحياة الاسرية - مشاكل اجتماعيه - شعر نبطي - شعر عامي - قصايد - قصائد- محاورات - مسلسلات - افلام - تورنت - تورنيت - لوست - برزن بريك - الهروب الكبير - lost - prison break - ملفات تورنت - تحميل افلام - تحميل تورنت - الدوري السعودي - تحليلات - مباريات - مباراة- دوري - المنتخب - دوري - نادي - الدوري الاوروبي - ريال مدريد - برشلونة - رابطة الابطال - ميلان - الانتر - مانشستر- تشلسي - يوفي - تحميل برامج - برامج جديدة - جديد البرامج - برامج نوكيا -برامج سوني اركسون - ثيمات نوكيا- نغمات - رسايل- رسائل- مسجات - مسجات وسائط - رسائل وسائط - mms - دروس فوتوشوب - تصاميم - تواقيع - اسهم - فوريكس - فوركس - سوق المال - الاسهم - تداول- ترافيان - العاب اونلاين - مواضي ماصله - اقتراحات

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مسلسل نور حلقات مسلسل نور تحميل حلقات مسلسل نور مشاهدة حلقات مسلسل نور سنوات الضياع مسلسل سنوات الضياع حلقات مسلسل سنوات الضياع تحميل حلقات مسلسل سنوات الضياع مشاهدة حلقات سنوات الضياع شاعر المليون 3  حلقات شاعر المليون 3 مشاهدة حلقات شاعر المليون 3 تحميل حلقات شاعر المليون 3 ملابس نسائيه سهره مكياج make up تحميل كتب الهلال - النصر - ياسر القحطاني السعودي اهداف - لقطات - تغطيات برامج - كراك - سيريل نمبر كيجين ثيم- ثيمات - جوال -ألعاب جوال - برامج جوال - نوكيا سوني اركسون Sony Ericsson Nokia   N80 6630 N71 E60 N93 N73 N70 N72 N95 المطور N91 وظائف - شركات - مؤسسات -ترفيان - travian - العاب اون لاين - ألعاب حرب مسلسلات رمضانيه - طاش - باب الحاره - بيني وبينك - عيال قرية -



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flh7[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by fasil on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:16:56 AM PDT

فله دردشة فله منتديات فله دردشة شات فله

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