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Brother Support Pitches Consumables

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Jun 21, 2004 at 12:07:37 AM PDT

Should vendors turn support calls into sales pitches? It certainly raises questions in the customer's mind when they do, as in a recent gripe from a reader about a call to Brother printer support.

"After a few days of power outages from severe thunderstorms, one of my remote offices called me with a problem with a low-end Brother laser printer," the reader wrote. "They told me the error code the lights were flashing, and I looked it up on the Brother website. The error was a 'fuser error,' and the prescribed action was to call Brother's service center. Hoping to save having to send the printer in, I went out to the site and took the printer apart to check the fuser out. Everything appeared fine, so I put it back together, and still no joy."

The reader called Brother, expecting to have to box up the printer and send it in for warranty support. "Instead the person on the phone, after putting me on hold for about ten minutes, tells me a simple reset procedure and has me print a test page successfully," the reader writes. "Once that was done she asked if I had any other questions. I did: 'Why don't you make that reset information available on your website; I could have had the printer fixed instantly, and saved myself not only the trip but the time spent taking it apart and sitting on hold here to speak with you?' She played that off, and segued right into the reason they don't make that information available on their website. 'Well,' she asked me, 'since you're on the line, do you need to buy any toner for your printer?'

"I have never had tech support try to sell me supplies I didn't need to fix the problem at hand before, but once she asked that it dawned on me the reason the information is not available -- or at least not easily found -- on Brother's website," the reader continued. "Their printers feed calls to their call center, where after the reps are so nice and helpful, they kindly offer to sell you some toner straight from the manufacturer. I wonder what the blinking-LED-error-code to toner-purchaser conversion rate is for this sales method.

"I don't mind them selling supplies for their printer," concludes the reader. "Had I needed toner I may have bought it from them, if the pricing was competitive. But what I do mind is the withholding of a simple piece of information to make the user call in, and using that in combination with sales to try to turn tech support from an expense into a profit center. It was like a longer, real time version of spam that I had to sit through for 10 minutes to find out how to reset the printer. Is this where free tech support is headed?"

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Brother Support Pitches Consumables | 28 comments (28 topical) | Post A Comment

I don't know... seems kind of innocent...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 21, 2004 at 01:56:17 PM PDT

Given how much each contact with a human being costs a company, I suspect that the fact the information isn't on their website is simple incompetence. Even with relatively overpriced supplies, I just don't think the profits from occasionally selling a couple of toner cartridges is going to offset the high cost of staffing a tech support call center. To me, this doesn't seem all that different from my Credit Card Bank trying to get me to buy worthless credit insurance when I call them to change my address. At least they usually do the pitch AFTER your problem is solved.

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Gripe is missing something...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 21, 2004 at 05:41:54 PM PDT

What's the printer model and reset code? That would nip this trick in the bud.

[ Reply to This ]

Reset Code[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 22, 2004 at 12:41:44 PM PDT

The model is the HL-1435 laser printer. The control panel consists of four LED's and a button, and the method for resetting it is to hold in the button while you turn the power on.

I should have thought to try that myself before calling, but when the error code says "Fuser malfunction" it leads you to believe that the unit has diagnosed itself with an actual problem, not something a simple reset can fix.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

eee[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 07:02:12 AM PDT

Intuit[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Mason on Mon Jun 21, 2004 at 07:21:13 PM PDT

I once had a similar encounter with Intuit. After not being allowed to reinstall my copy of Quickbooks (after a reformat) thanks to their product activation/registration, I had to call tech support. I wasn't anywhere close to happy or polite, and the bastard on the other end still had the gall to try to sell me some sort of support package.

(That software was also the last cent that Intuit will ever get out of me.)

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The times they are a' changing[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Zero K on Tue Jun 22, 2004 at 11:47:11 AM PDT

Not too many years ago, I would have jumped on the bandwagon hurling criticism and epithets at those sneaky, no-good hucksters. Even those of us in internal IT support organizations are called on nowadays to show a measurable profit, rather than being part of the "cost of doing business". I can't fault them anymore, especially if by selling some toner they can allow you to speak with someone who speaks fluent English and whose income contributes back to the American economy (hopefully this was the case with your toner salesperson).

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Huh?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by MoJoPokeyBlue on Tue Jun 22, 2004 at 12:21:13 PM PDT

So when everyone in the world,
1. Looks like you,
2. Talks like you,
3. Spends money like you,

will you FINALLY be happy?

I doubt it.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Whoa take it easy dude....[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 23, 2004 at 05:41:04 AM PDT

This is a technology forum on printers, not a discussion on that guy's personal preferences...which I think you blew WAY out of proportion. Nothing wrong with a little patriotism or a preference to one's primary language (I've heard other contriubutors of InfoWorld say these same things, hopefully you didn't snap at them on a forum as well). Just stick to the technology aspect of all of this, people are getting just a tad touchy these days

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Eliminating Diversity[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Zero K on Wed Jun 23, 2004 at 08:58:50 AM PDT

... not my point at all, Mojo, just trying to hit on the idea that when corporate management starts bouncing around the thought of outsourcing IT support to India/China, they don't necessarily look past the immediate cost savings to the full impact of their decision, and anything internal IT can do to justify their existence on a bottom-line basis can prove helpful. Just trying to keep the words to a minimum, no apologies for being patriotic, I know this is off topic so it's my last comment on this thread. Zero out...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Huh? by MoJoPokeyBlue on Tue Jun 22nd, 2004[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 29, 2004 at 07:51:12 PM PDT

So when everyone in the world, 1. Looks like you, 2. Talks like you, 3. Spends money like you, will you FINALLY be happy? I doubt it. --------------------------------------------- You seem a little touchy with this. A little 'over-the-top' for a typical lunch-time abuse of the company's internet LOL. You seem like a nice person who cares about equality in this world. This is a gripe site, isn't it? You are entitled to let off some steam without being pounced on. I applaud you. I get the feeling you...... 1. Look different than others around you 2. Talk with an accent 3. Are frugal with your money--or have to send it to another country for your family. Maybe a little cynical(sp?). Don't despair. We're not all that bad. Take care and welcome to our country. Remember we all can't speak American in this world. There has to be some diversity.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

I see your point, but...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 22, 2004 at 12:55:01 PM PDT

I can sympathize with internal IT needing to show a profit in today's tight times. I also should point out that I did speak to an American rep, so I guess some praise is in order.

But, consider my side of the situation: As the sole admin and support contact for 50+ users in my company, at half a dozen locations in two states, I'm already spread pretty thin. Had I been able to locate the reset procedure online or in the printer documentation, and walk the user through that test, I could have had her up on Friday instead of the following Monday. I could have applied an hour and a half of my time more productively elsewhere. And the cost to Brother would have been less, because they would not have had to field my call to their 800 number.

Sometimes the way to increased profits is not through contriving ways to get more money out of the customer, but by providing increased efficiency, reliable products, and excellent service. The money comes naturally after that.

This situation is not by any means the end of the world. Yes, I may continue to buy these printers from Brother for my smaller office, because they are basically good quality basic laser printers at disposable inkjet prices. But when it's time to look for a bigger printer, you can bet my experience with Brother support will prevent me from considering their other offerings. So by trying to make $10 on toner, they have cut themselves out of a lot more money down the road.

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Ya want fries with that?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 22, 2004 at 12:08:13 PM PDT

A number of years ago, I had an old IBM PC/AT (a LARGE number of years ago) The manual had 20 or 30 pages of error codes, the description/explaination/solution for ALL of which was "Contact Technical Support". I wondered at the time why they bothered to print them at all. Why not just say "when you get an error code, call technical support." In this case, I would be interested to know if all the error codes had the same description ("Please call tech support and maybe buy printer supplies"), or if this was one of the few that required you to call. If it was one of the few, there may have been a reason for prompting the call (ex: it means something different if it happens after you sent a page, or right on startup.) In any case, I don't think you can blame Brother for adding a variation of "would you like fries with that" at the end of the conversation. That's just resale, and you shouldn't be surprised. (If all error messages require you to call, then I agree that it looks a lot like a scam.) My problem is when they can't answer your question, or give you an unacceptable answer (like "You just voided your warranty by using unauthorized toner from someone else") and they STILL ask if you would like to buy something, or if there is anything else they can help you with. -Tim R.

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Error Codes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 22, 2004 at 12:36:43 PM PDT

The codes are at http://solutions.brother.com/Library/faq/printer/prfaq0629/prfaq0629.html. For the basic codes (toner low, paper jam, etc) it provides a description of the problem and solution. Once you get beyond the self-explanatory codes, they are all lumped into a "Service Call" category which directs you to their tech support.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Brother[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 22, 2004 at 02:40:13 PM PDT

It's what they call "Customer Relationship Management" where they try to manage to get more businesss out of you. By constantly trying to Manage (manipulate) you they make you a former customer.

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CRM charges for help....[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 22, 2004 at 06:00:47 PM PDT

let me turn the telescope around the other way for a look at this problem... you complain about IT and tech support offering "fries with that?" on real calls, and mention, almost in passing, that the customer call centers are treated as profit centers! what if.... the company were to realize that when their products cause problems for customers, the best way to grow the business and keep customers happy is to give help away for free, AND THEN WORK THEIR TAILS OFF TO MAKE SURE THE PROBLEM IS ELIMINATED IN THE NEAR FUTURE?! i once worked on a help desk, and some of the morons managing it would sing their own praises over how many calls were handled, including kudos for "handling more this month than last month", rather than focusing on feeding back the issues to the people who should be curing the problems that created the calls [assuming, for a moment, that they actually would care to.... some years later, i designed a database/feedback tool to save the information and create manageable feedback loops for affected parties, but couldn't get funding to develop it. $100k might have completed it, but it would have improved productivity by about two hours per person over several teams comprising hundreds of people! but management couldn't do the math. info via my website at plusaf.com +af

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Brother[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jun 24, 2004 at 11:55:14 AM PDT

No, it's what Bob Lewis (Infoworld compatriot of Ed) dubbed "Customer Elimination Management."

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All to familiar to me[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 23, 2004 at 05:45:42 AM PDT

Looks like Brother is taking a couple pages from Lexmark and HP. Hopefully others in the industry won't follow suit, but I doubt it

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Support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by CGuy on Wed Jun 23, 2004 at 07:44:06 AM PDT

I'm glad I don't work in OEM support. They provided not only free, accurate support, but on their toll-free number, to boot. And you want to piss about a little oportunisitic selling? Now I know why manufacturers give up on trying to provide decent support.

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Selling in Support[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by dliesse on Wed Jun 23, 2004 at 11:07:13 AM PDT

Sorry, but I can't go along with this. When I call Support, I want support. If I want to talk about buying something, I'll call Sales. And if this was for the office, even if I wanted to buy something I'm not authorized to make the purchase, so asking me is a complete waste of my time.

I've said for a long time that the best sales technique is good service. There's a reason that used car salesmen for a long time had the reputation they had (they're getting better, anyway); the problem is that the rest of American industry is lowering itself to their level.

Keep in mind that there is a difference between marketing and sales. Unsolicited sales attempts are just about the most obnoxious part of any day.

One thing to remember about the original post, too, is that the sales attempt was made instead of answering the caller's question. If a company is going to be crass enough to have the Support staff trying to do sales work, they should at least have the brains to be sure they're talking to a satisfied customer first!

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Blame Do Not Call Lists?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by technoboy on Thu Jun 24, 2004 at 12:59:52 PM PDT

I'm not into consipiracy theory (well, ok, maybe recreationally), but it seems to me this practice of marketing to support callers started to appear around the same time the "do not call" lists went into effect.

I just got treated to a very well-planned, well-practiced, high-pressure sales pitch from a "tech support" person at SBC (one of the largest of the "baby" Bells) last week. After this person got done telling me my problem wasn't SBC's problem, I said my goodbyes (I try to be civil whenever possible), but before I could go on-hook, this guy says, "Do you have a minute. We don't get a chance to talk to you very often." Pretty smooth! In just the second or so it took me to realize what was about to happen, this guy was already well into his sales pitch (how do they do that without taking a breath?).

"SBC can do everything for me now, did I know that? Long distance, DSL (puke!) and, oh yes, even TV."

The vaunted "three-play" (I can't wait until they add another major service and have to call it "four-play"). Anyhow, once this guy got going, I had a hard time politely shaking him. He was good.

After I finally did end the call, a suspicious thought came to me: maybe I had not been talking to a tech support person at all! Maybe my tech support call had been routed to the SBC sales call center! Maybe the guy I'd been talking to was really a salesperson who had been trained to do technical support "triage" (i.e., "first-level" tech support). If he can fob me off by telling me SBC isn't responsible for my problem, even better! No tech support person has to be involved in the tech support process at all! In either case, they get a crack at selling me, the unsuspecting tech support caller, something. Pretty clever, right? Maybe not.

Think about this for a minute. Someone calls your technical support number. Why? They have a problem with your product or service. You tell them it's not your fault (in other words, "no tech support here"). Then, you (almost literally) grab them by the collar and start trying to sell them more product or service! If that's not the definition of "self-limiting behavior" I don't know what is. What amazes me is that corporate executives actually get paid big bucks to think stuff like this up. The person who came up with the "let's turn our tech support cost center into a profit center, and put all those telephone sales people made redundant by the do not call lists back to work" probably got a bonus. Go figure.

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Interesting theory, but...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by dliesse on Mon Jun 28, 2004 at 09:04:55 AM PDT

Any company with which you already have a relationship (and obviously SBC falls into this category in your case) is exempt fromt the do-not-call list provisions. If I remember correctly, which I may not in this case, the phone companies are specifically exempted, as well.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Brother Support Pitches Consumables[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 03, 2005 at 08:35:55 PM PDT

Mr. Foster, I believe that you are mistaken and didn't take the time to properly search the Brother Solutions Center. I checked this out and found that the Brother Solutions Center lists their top five FAQ's and FAQ's just released. I click on the "more" link under the top five FAQ's and found 70 total FAQ's for the HL5140 Printer. I believe that the #7 FAQ is the FAQ that you required. http://global.solutions.brother.com/top_faq/top_faq?numdisp=20&colnum=0&li=2&p=120&l o=en_us I also don't believe that any of the manufacturers want to actually talk to their customers. Don't you think that Customer Support cost more then a few consumable sales.

[ Reply to This ]

nokia[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
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carecenter[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
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wslaat[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
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eve isk[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by samezhen on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 05:14:47 PM PDT

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msa6el[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by msa6el on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 05:02:10 AM PDT

حارة المساطيل - مساطيل- مواضيع مميزه - مواضيع ترحيب - مواضيع عامه - نكت - مواضيع مضحكه- عياره - زحف - صور رحلات- سياحه - تصوير فوتوغرافي - مواضيع اسلاميه - دعوه وارشاد -نقاشات - مواضيع جاده - منتدى الجاده - الحياة الاسرية - مشاكل اجتماعيه - شعر نبطي - شعر عامي - قصايد - قصائد- محاورات - مسلسلات - افلام - تورنت - تورنيت - لوست - برزن بريك - الهروب الكبير - lost - prison break - ملفات تورنت - تحميل افلام - تحميل تورنت - الدوري السعودي - تحليلات - مباريات - مباراة- دوري - المنتخب - دوري - نادي - الدوري الاوروبي - ريال مدريد - برشلونة - رابطة الابطال - ميلان - الانتر - مانشستر- تشلسي - يوفي - تحميل برامج - برامج جديدة - جديد البرامج - برامج نوكيا -برامج سوني اركسون - ثيمات نوكيا- نغمات - رسايل- رسائل- مسجات - مسجات وسائط - رسائل وسائط - mms - دروس فوتوشوب - تصاميم - تواقيع - اسهم - فوريكس - فوركس - سوق المال - الاسهم - تداول-