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Blaming the Victim for Phishing

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Mar 29, 2004 at 12:32:49 PM PDT

Should you ever fall victim to one of the increasingly sophisticated phishing scams, don't be surprised if the authorities tell you it's all your fault for "giving your permission" to the identity thief to fleece you.

A story appeared over the weekend in the San Jose Mercury News' "Action Line" column about the victim of a phony PayPal website whose bank account was drained by a phishing operation in Moscow. As the phisher had also taken $500 of overdraft protection on the bank account, the victim's bank said it was owed $500 because the card was used with the victim's permission.

"I explained the stolen identity situation to the company, but it insisted I did not have my information stolen but that I gave permission for someone else to use my card," the victim wrote the Mercury News. "I'm not asking for my stolen bank account money. I just don't think I should have to pay the $500."

With the intervention of the Mercury News columnist, the victim's bank agreed to reverse the $500 charge. But an official of the California bank quoted by the columnist still stuck to the idea that the their customer was "voluntarily" using a false Web site and therefore could be held liable. Don't give out any information to anyone who isn't "100 percent trustworthy," the bank official piously warned.

He might as well have said don't use the Internet, because there is no such thing as a 100 percent trustworthy site. And if law enforcement, PayPal and the banks don't start going after the criminals rather than blaming the victims, not using the Internet may be the only logical choice any of us have.

Update [2004-3-30 11:20:1 by Ed Foster]: By way of a footnote, I wanted to point out another SJ Mercury News story that appeared this morning. A Ukrainian-based software pirate accused of selling $3-million-worth of counterfeit Microsoft and Autodesk software on the Internet was tracked via his e-mail trail by federal authorities. Eventually he was arrested while travelling in Thailand and extradited to the U.S. In other words, if it is someone like Microsoft that's losing $3 million, the feds can and will find a way to enforce U.S. laws against East European criminals. But if it's average consumers who are being robbed of their life savings, nobody is going to lift a finger. Except perhaps to point that finger at the victim and say they are to blame for granting "permission" to the thieves.

< Suing Customers Operation | Reader Voices: No Recourse? >

Blaming the Victim for Phishing | 28 comments (28 topical) | Post A Comment

Blaming the victim[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by byelen on Tue Mar 30, 2004 at 06:15:47 AM PDT

It would be interesting to have an attorney's take on this. Based on this view, there is no such thing as a "con" game, as all of the "con's" rotate around getting the victim to "voluntarily" give access to their funds.

[ Reply to This ]

Lost funds from phishing scam[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Thu Apr 01, 2004 at 10:33:07 AM PDT

I suggest that the victim seek to have the bank return the deposit account funds stolen from his account without his permission. If higher authorites at the bank do not cooperate, contact the state banking regulators or the federal agency that supervises this bank, either FDIC, FRB, or OCC. All of the agencies have consumer advocates, and I doubt that the regulations actually place all the responsibility on the consumer. If the card is branded by Mastercard or Visa, you should check with them also, as they have rules that MAY protect consumers.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Phishing Scam[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by psyxme on Tue May 18, 2004 at 11:47:45 AM PDT

All this sympathy is heartwarming, but we all know that if the bank pays up, the next scam will be to "accidently" give out information. Have a "crook" drain our account. Collect damages from the bank. Split the profit with the other crook. How do we know that the "poor victim" in this case didn't plan the whole thing? More importantly, how does the bank know?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Part of the scam[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jun 03, 2004 at 02:32:47 AM PDT

If they wanted to do that wouldn't it be much better to just give the other person the credit card - Let them max out the cash advance and then claim the $50 max on the credit card?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

DVD Ripper and Vob Converter for Mac[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 20, 2008 at 03:12:42 AM PDT

222[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 06:29:28 AM PDT

111[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 03:58:14 AM PDT

Dvd ripper for mac[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 03:38:05 AM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Phishing scams[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 18, 2004 at 03:53:27 PM PDT

Scams have been with us forever. They differ from outright theft only in the fact that the "victim" is usually complicent in the scam. Usually, the victim is made to believe he is going to get something for nothing by trusting the scammer. In the case of phishing scams, the victim willingly gives up the information needed to rip himself off. The bank can no more be held accountable for the participation of a depositor in a phishing scam than they could be held accountable for a depositor being robbed at gunpoint at an ATM. Holding a "victim" accountable for their own actions is not "blaming the victim", merely placing responsibility where it belongs. The ultimate responsibility, of course, is with the scammer, but the bank played no part and should be held blameless.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Update[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Thu Apr 01, 2004 at 10:38:54 AM PDT

My cynicism is fuled by your update. This is too true, and yet another symptom of the selling of our government. Someday (I hope soon) the people of this country are going to rise up and demand that elected and appointed officals and government employees are held accountable to THE PEOPLE for whom they work and from whom all their authority flows. Government for the highest bidder will surely lead to revolution in the 21st century, just as it did in the 18th century. Whether it's peaceful or violent, it's only a matter of time. Ambrose M.

[ Reply to This ]

Whose liability[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Thu Apr 01, 2004 at 11:27:53 AM PDT

I feel sorry for the phishing victim, but why should the bank (which really means the bank's shareholders and customers) have to eat the $500 they are out for covering the "overdraft"? There is no logical difference between the victim's account balance and his overdraft protection amount. I do agree that the bank spokesman was insensitive in the wording of his statement.

[ Reply to This ]

Should be no different than a credit card[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 18, 2004 at 01:41:31 PM PDT

And yet, if the victim's credit card number was compromised, the bank would be forced to eat the cost, because federal law limits you to $50 and almost no bank even asks for that. So from a victim's point of view, why should I be held liable in one case and not in the other? Just because the government thought to protect the consumer for credit cards but not deposit accounts?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Bank also a Victim[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Wed Apr 07, 2004 at 03:27:46 PM PDT

When I first read this, it looked clear cut. But it isn't. I don't like the way the bank handled it, but it is important to remember that they are also a victim. They may choose to "eat" the cost for situations like this, but the person who gives his information away should assume SOME responsibility. Account/password stealer programs were being used in my college back in the late '70s - this is NOT a new concept. Scams like this are far older. And while no site can be expected to be 100% secure, surely a request for a social security number and Mother's Maiden Name should set off alarm bells in anyone's mind. I would triple check a site before I gave away that kind of information.

[ Reply to This ]

Phishing fun[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by vesta1953 on Wed Apr 14, 2004 at 04:33:52 PM PDT

I got one of those phishing emails, supposedly from PayPal. The first thing I did was go to the PayPal site and contact them. I copied and pasted the entire contents of the email in the message I sent to PayPal, asking if they had sent the request to update my information. I did NOTHING until I heard back from PayPal. They told me it was a scam and thanked me for informing them. Whenever I get email like that(I've gotten them for Citi-Bank and I don't even have any kind of account with them), I contact the company from whom it supposedly came before I do anything with the email. Just makes sense to me to be a tad paranoid about my personal financial information.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Better yet...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Mason on Thu Apr 15, 2004 at 06:03:16 PM PDT

Don't even open them (especially if your client auto-loads remote images or the like). If you want to notify the company about the scam-of-the-day, feel free, but none of them are ever going to legitimately contact you this way.

Here's a tip: if you're able, create a unique email address to use with each institution. I'll typically do something along the lines of paypal_x1@domain -- then I know right away whether it's a legit email and whether the company sold my email address (when it starts receiving spam). I always add a little extra something (like _x1 in my example) to guard against people spamming to common names.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

phishing email[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 18, 2004 at 11:27:20 AM PDT

That solution seemed logical until I got one from someone pretending to be my ISP (roadrunner) telling me I needed to update my information. I copied it and sent it to their security contact and received a reply that told me the letter did not come from them and that I should complain to its originator! Yeah - right... I even had the perpetrators real name and real address that I forwarded to them! (gleaned from research into their .com registration info)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Phishing Scam[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by DavidL on Tue May 18, 2004 at 02:03:37 PM PDT

Someone wrote:

'surely a request for a social security number and Mother's Maiden Name should set off alarm bells in anyone's mind. I would triple check a site before I gave away that kind of information'

A few days ago, I received an email from my (large national) mortgage company telling me that, because I haven't used their Web-based information service in several months, I must 'for security purposes' reactivate my online access account.

They said that this was because people are replacing computers more frequetly these days and the company wants to protect me in case someone else begins using a computer that I discarded. They said that sometimes people change email service providers and that their old provider sometimes recycles email addresses.

The email contained a link to a Web form that requested: 1) my username; 2) my password; 3) my social security number; 4) my mother's maiden name; 5) my birthdate; and 6) my birth place.

This set off alarm bells. I called a local office of the company and was told that I would need to contact the national office.

While asking myself if I didn't have better things to do, I made a call to the national office and finally reached someone who knew what I was talking about. The person I spoke with seemed puzzled that I didn't trust the email message. Yes, he had heard of phishing scams but surely I should have recognized that everything on the information-gathering Web form looked as it should. I pointed out that the URL for the form doesn't follow the same format or even refer to the same site as the company's regular Web site. He replied, "Most people won't notice that."

We talked for several minutes. He said that they had sent out several thousand requests for customers to reconfirm their online accounts. He said they only recieved a few requests for verification. "With yours, no more than fifteen," he said.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Non-phishing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by NuYorker on Tue May 25, 2004 at 10:56:36 AM PDT

I had a similar situation a few months ago with, of all companies, IBM. I got an email directing me to some website that had "ibm" in it, but was not an "ibm.com" site, asking me to update information concerning my ThinkPad and support services. The return address had the same unusal domain. After some determined examination, I concluded that it probably was a genuine IBM site, but ultimately refused to enter any confidential information -- call me paranoid. I just couldn't believe that IBM would send out something that looked so fishy.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Robbery is robbery and not the banks fault.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by newsstand on Tue May 18, 2004 at 10:56:42 AM PDT

So if someone sticks a gun in my back at the ATM and makes me take out money does the bank owe me for that too?

[ Reply to This ]

Robbery is not the same as phishing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 18, 2004 at 12:21:35 PM PDT

"So if someone sticks a gun in my back at the ATM and makes me take out money does the bank owe me for that too?" Being forced to do something against your will is not the same as voluntarily doing it, even if you're fooled into doing so.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Phishing as Robbery[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by glenn354 on Tue May 18, 2004 at 11:37:00 AM PDT

Phishing is simply the Internet version of the old con game where the "bank examiner" approaches the old person and says they are "testing" the bank and need her to withdraw much of her money. I don't think the banks reimburse her for her mistake. On the other hand, the banks do watch if large amounts of money are leaving the account. How about a simple phone call? I would much rather a call from my bank asking if I was withdrawing all my funds rather than just having the bank do it. I think the "Phishee" is ultimately responsible, but the bank certainly isn't clean on the deal.

[ Reply to This ]

Blame the Victim??[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue May 18, 2004 at 09:45:43 PM PDT

What troubles me in reading some of the comments in this thread is the cold attitude towards victims of fraud (blame the victim). What kind of society are we becoming? Say your grandmother answers the door to people posing to be contractors, or people falsely representing the power company or a major charity and while one keeps her attention, the partner sneaks in around the back and robs her cash and jewelry. Would you incarcerate grandma or worse, put her in a nursing home? Or would you punish your grammar school child because someone stole his or her lunch money. Better yet, ground your teenage daughter who was groped in the high school parking lot because she wore a mini skirt and therefore she must have been "was asking for it". What is the fault of the Enron employees who lost their jobs and pensions because of the greed of top management? No victim asks or wants to be a victim. You can argue all you want that victims should have used some common sense but more often than not, they (and we) are up against highly sophisticated predators and con men (and women) who are using nefarious schemes that have been fine tuned for eons. The computer age just gives them a new avenue to plunder the unsuspecting by exploiting human trust and frailty. Not everyone can be super vigilant, geeko type computer user aware of every scam, con and phising trick out there. Everyday moms and dads, grandparents and occasional/casual PC users don't usually subscribe to PC Magazine, PC World, Info World and the like, or read online techie newsletters or join Ed Fosters forum where much of this is discussed. One is not required to know the intricacies of networking or the internet nor the internals of a computer to join the information highway - just as one does not need to know the working of the internal combustion engine to drive a car. JoeP

[ Reply to This ]

Huh????[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by derzehn on Wed May 19, 2004 at 08:48:37 AM PDT

How is any of this "blaming" the victim??? What IS being said is: Why is it the bank's fault? Or why should the bank be responsible for the mistakes (naivet� / ignorance) of their depositors? The bank is not our mommy and daddy. Adults should be responsible for their own mistakes. Yes, even responsible for their own MISTAKES. It is no one else's responsibility to clean up the mess for us. That's what we do for children. It's cruel and unfortunate that the victims are the losers, but why should they be rescued by the bank?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Cold attitude?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Wed May 19, 2004 at 11:46:54 AM PDT

Your analogies are flawed. No one is suggesting ADDITIONAL punishment for the victim (incarcerating Grandma, punishing the grammar school child, grounding the daughter, etc). What you're not recognizing is that just because the victim did nothing on purpose to become a victim does NOT mean that someone else must always come to their rescue and make them whole again. Things happen in this world, and we all suffer at one time or another, sometimes through no fault of our own. Sorry, but that's life, dude!. Sure, there are laws in place to properly go after criminals, but there's no guarantee that it will always be possible to find and convict them. Your rant exhibits the typical "victim mentality" that's become so prevalent - people expecting either government or "big business" to bail them out whenever anything bad happens. Just because you did nothing wrong does not mean that some OTHER victim (i.e., the bank) should be expected to come to your rescue so you don't ever have to suffer.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

It's just like a credit card[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Thu May 27, 2004 at 02:37:40 PM PDT

This guy gave out his bank information to someone on the internet. Did he have any real clue who the guy was? NO. This is his problem. he should have to deal with it himself. On the otherhand though, they used his account wrongly. the guy should get a lawyer and sew the company. I don't think that the company should have to pay for his lawyer though. By having to pay for his own lawyer will be enough to keep him from putting critical information like that on the internet again, if he hasn't already learned his lesson.

[ Reply to This ]

lingering[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
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[ Reply to This ]

silent killer[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
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[ Reply to This ]

hey[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
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