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TaxCut Not for Paid Preparers – Or is It?

By Ed Foster, Section UnFairUse
Posted on Mon Feb 16, 2004 at 01:31:36 PM PDT
With all the people who switched to TaxCut because of last year’s TurboTax product activation fiasco, I should point out that not all customers of H&R Block’s tax software have found it to be pure sweetness and light. And users who report problems to the company may find their right to use it questioned.


A reader recently wrote about a problem he was having with the Premium edition of TaxCut. “I wrote a letter to H&R Block because their program froze upon re-opening the file and lost the data on a return I had just finished,” says the reader. “I actually believe this freeze is due to a known bug where their forms getting corrupt, and it will hang upon opening, and require a re-download or re-installation. But the website says nothing about losing data. Well, I reinstalled the software and my hours-of-work data was lost, so I wrote to them asking if the data was recoverable. Their reply was short and accusational, and avoided answering the question. But they did manage to inform me that this is not a tool that paid preparers are allowed to use.”

H&R Block’s technical support noted in their e-mail to the reader that he had said he was using TaxCut as a professional tool. If this was the case, they told him, he was violating the TaxCut End User License Agreement. They quoted the EULA as saying:

“You may not: (i) distribute, give, rent, loan, or resell a copy of the Software to any other person;.. . You also may not use or access the Software to prepare or file tax returns for any other person for a fee or other consideration, and you agree to indemnify Block against any claims, costs or expenses relating to such use or access. (ii) use the Software in other than its intended manner or for the benefit of any third parties, including by making the Software available on an application service provider, outsourcing or service bureau basis, or on any peer-to-peer or file-sharing service or network, or by using or accessing the Software to prepare or file tax returns for any other person for a fee or other consideration ..."

Technical support, the reader was told, was not available to those who violate the license agreement. The reader wondered why H&R Block hides this usage restriction in its license agreement rather than prominently informing prospective customers that they can’t use it if they are paid tax preparers. In fact, he noted, the Premium edition even provides tools to help tax accountants. “So tell me then - why do they include a billing invoice and a client letter in their forms for paid preparers, along with a worksheet to put in the paid tax preparation business's hourly rates and per-form fees, sales tax, and discount rates?” he asked.

By the way, TurboTax has long had a similar provision against paid preparers in its license agreement, but I’m not aware of any attempts Intuit has made to invoke it. Are such license terms legally enforceable? It’s hard to say, at least outside of Virginia and Maryland (the UCITA states). But I would think most courts would expect any such restriction on who can use a product to be prominently displayed rather than buried in the sneakwrap.

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TaxCut Not for Paid Preparers – Or is It? | 21 comments (21 topical) | Post A Comment
Two Words: No Activation[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 17, 2004 at 01:04:21 PM PDT

Despite any problems with TaxCut, it still doesn't have activation and uses it as a selling point on the outside of the box. TaxCut does seem to be fragmenting their offering into more and more products. I fear the day when they charge by the form(s) you actually use or charge an e-filing fee based on the pages they process. That is a copyrighted idea and under the terms of the DMCA, I will sue them if they use my idea. I just wish I'd patented activation and charged $1 trillion dollars to license it. ;)

[ Reply to This ]


Clueless Publishers and "Magic Glasses"[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 19, 2004 at 09:00:15 AM PDT

I find myself deeply puzzled by publishers other than Baen Books, where I'm a fiercely loyal fan and customer.  I buy the "Webscriptions" and, in fact, bought the entire YEARS 2003 and 2004 "blind" before I had any idea what would be coming out in any of those months.  It's been worth it.

I then go to my local independent bookstore and buy the hardcovers and donate those to the Berkeley Public Library, since what I READ are the e-books.

Then I run into other publishers.  One publisher has the books up at www.fictionwise.com, but they're all DigitalRipoffManagement-crippled *and* at (you ready for this) Hardcover prices.  They're still at those prices even after the paperback of the book has come out.  Somebody want to tell me why I should pay hardcover prices for crippled ebooks when I can just scan the treeware?

DRM is what I call "magic glasses," and most publishers insist that you have to use them to read *their* precious content.  I sometimes think that, if Gutenberg had been able to do that with paper books, thee and I woulds't still be awaiting our copies of the Bible from the Scriptorium.


[ Reply to This ]



Uhhh... wrong article[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by dmforcier on Tue Feb 24, 2004 at 12:46:55 PM PDT

You want the DRM article

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


What about TaxACT?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 19, 2004 at 09:54:45 AM PDT

Anytime I hear people talk about tax software, it's always either TurboTax or TaxCut. A package called TaxACT from 2nd Story Software has been out for years now and is free for the basic version. I had always resisted the temptation to use it, figuring TurboTax was more "professional" and more likely would include what a freebie did not. However, after getting burned myself last year by the activation fiasco, I decided to give TaxACT a try this year.

I was very impressed. It did everything I ever wanted my tax software to do, and it was free. No activation, ads, or other funny business. When it came time to file electronically, I had the option of either paying $7.95 to file (very reasonable) or $9.95 to upgrade to the deluxe version, which included one free electronic filing. At that point, I was already so impressed that I decided to upgrade and send them the paltry extra money. It was still half the price of TurboTax basic on sale, before having to pay them to file electronically.

I also just checked their professional offerings, and they have numerous packages available specifically for professional tax preparers. They talk about client forms and organization and growing your business. I even downloaded a copy to check out the license agreement, and there are no exclusions related to third-party preparation.

Take a look, and you might want to alert your readers to the better alternative. (By the way, I have no affiliation. I'm just a satisfied customer who will never go back to TurboTax.)

Ken



[ Reply to This ]


TaxAct[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 19, 2004 at 05:30:59 PM PDT

This will be my third year using TaxAct. I did my 2001 taxes in both TurboTax and TaxAct and there were no differences in outcome, so I have used TaxAct ever since.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


TaxACT Gets 2 Thumbs Up[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by kamnet on Thu Feb 26, 2004 at 10:35:37 AM PDT

When I first went to e-filing, I tried Turbo Tax, and I really didn't like it. Then I found out that I'd have to pay for another copy the NEXT year? Fughettit. I found TaxACT, I could use it for free and only pay a modest filing fee. VERY impressed with it.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Tax Cut EULA[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by glenn354 on Thu Feb 19, 2004 at 10:42:38 AM PDT

I just did a search on their website for "License Agreement" and found two answers. One was Deciding to use Interview or Forms method and the other one was Cannot Enter Preparer's Information. The latter refers to the EULA. There does not appear to be any link to the EULA or probably not even on the website. Just another example of "shrink-wrap" EULA. I did not try to purchase it on-line to see if I had to click through the EULA.

[ Reply to This ]


Turbotax isn't for paid preparers, either[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 19, 2004 at 10:42:45 AM PDT

The normal version of TurboTax consumers buy in the store is not for use for paid preparers, either. I'd be surprised if the paid preparer signature box in Taxcut is not somehow blocked from being filled in the same way it is with Turbotax. They don't want you buying their $20-40 consumer product and doing dozens of returns with it. They want you buying their multi-hundred dollar commercial product, so at least they get a piece of your profit.

[ Reply to This ]


A Good CPA is Easier & Cheaper[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 19, 2004 at 08:12:34 PM PDT

My own experience is that hiring a good CPA is easier and cheaper than buying a difficult and possibly unreliable piece of software. Plus, I just took a class given by another CPA who illustrated how he reduced a couple's $200,000 income to $2,000 of federal tax. No software will ever do that without a human expert analyzing things. Anyone that does their own taxes without a good CPA is wasting money and deserves all the grief they get. Pennywize and dollar foolish!

[ Reply to This ]


Finding a good CPA[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Fri Feb 27, 2004 at 11:51:02 AM PDT

This is a non trivial task. I remember asking several CPAs about a state tax credit for stay at home moms. They all looked at me and said I was crazy. When I finally got through to the state tax office on the phone they confirmed the existence of the credit. That credit saved me $1300 for two of my children ($2600 total) over several years.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


$2, 000 in taxes for a $200,000 income[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue Mar 02, 2004 at 08:16:19 AM PDT

Wow, if a CPA did that, I have only one response - tax fraud.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


TurboTax Invokes the Restriction[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 19, 2004 at 08:28:45 PM PDT

You wrote that you are "not aware of any attempts Intuit has made" to invoke the provision against use by paid preparers. I guess you haven't used TurboTax. It invokes that provision on every return by printing "Self Prepared" in the space for the paid preparer's name. This effectively makes it impossible for a paid preparer to use it.

[ Reply to This ]


Easy way around[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Fri Feb 20, 2004 at 09:04:05 AM PDT

Copy the data by hand to a fresh tax form and then fill in the preparer's information. The real work in taxes are figuring all the worksheets and the numbers, copying the numbers from the "unusable" print-out to a blank form is a pretty light price to pay... Or is the "Self Prepared" is printed light enough, write the preparer information over it.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Or better yet[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by beamdriver on Sun Feb 22, 2004 at 02:50:39 PM PDT

Cut out the preparer info box from a blank form, tape it over the relevant area on the printed from and then Xerox the form and fill out the info.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Tax Cut - Proffesional Use[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 23, 2004 at 07:00:13 AM PDT

For what it's worth H&R Block does address the professional use isue on it's web site. The info is not exactly prominent but it's not deeply buried either. From the home page I chose customer support - then product info. I guess I'm in the minority, but I would never have thought that a product marketed so obviously to the general public would be intended for professional use. Knowledge Base Article Article ID: 30-234882458 How Do I: Learn if any TaxCut Products support professional return preparation? No, TaxCut is intended for personal use. We presently offer no products intended for professional return preparation.

[ Reply to This ]


TaxACT[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Thu Apr 01, 2004 at 04:04:19 PM PDT

I've used TaxACT for years, and found it to be far superior to TaxCUT or any of the other overpriced tax return products out there. The only very minor gripe I had this year is that it took awhile for the "final" version to be posted on their website. And the standard disclaimer, I have no ties to the company.

[ Reply to This ]


TaxCut[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Fri Apr 09, 2004 at 06:00:26 AM PDT

I have used TaxCut for many years and have used the e-File feature of the product for the last two years. This year, I had duplicate e-File charges on my credit card (I e-Filed once - they charged me twice - $15 each). I first started to fix this double charging via their online chat because it was the easiest (so I thought). I usually use the chat support feature when offered by a company as it allows you to immediately talk to someone, on your schedule, for free, and usually with little wait (unlike the phone lines). Well - that customer service person had absolutely no power to do anything about it - even though we chatted for some time (20 minutes or more?). He kept saying (after checking with someone) that it probably wasn't a real charge - just an "authorization". I am open minded but it was real obvious that this wasn't the case. It was a real charge because it was in my total due amount! So he said it had to be investigated and someone would call me. Well after a week - and no calls, I chatted again (online). This time they said they were sorry - they had lost the record from the first chat and that my case had been dropped. So they got my name again and said someone would call me. Again - several days go by and nothing. So I emailed them this time (pretty upset by this point) and they emailed me back saying they had tried to call me on such-and-such date but could not reach me. I knew that wasn't the case becauase they date they stated was in the future! Anyway - I ended up calling the credit card company to refute the charges. They said they would investigate and would put a temporary reversal on the charges while it was being "investigated". When I last checked with the credit card company on this, they said it had been reversed permanently due to no response from HR Block/TaxCut. All I can say is TaxCut is good if you don't need to contact them about a problem. Their Customer Service is very poor in my opinion. I like the chat and email features of customer service because so many times we play phone tags with customer service people - but in this case, those methods didn't work.

[ Reply to This ]


A small rebuttal.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 03, 2004 at 12:17:53 AM PDT

In an effort to clarify one of the points you bring up, specifically, why H&R Block "hides" the provision against Paid Preparer use of the software they supply, I will submit that they indeed do not hide this fact. Rather, it is displayed right along side the information that anyone buying software of any kind generally looks at. If you've bought the TaxCut software in a physical form, flip the box over and take a look at the "System Requirements" section. At the bottom of that, you'll notice in black, bold lettering the words, "Not For Professional Use".

[ Reply to This ]


Nokia[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
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noman[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
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TaxCut Not for Paid Preparers – Or is It? | 21 comments (21 topical) | Post A Comment
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