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HP Plays Grinch

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 06:04:40 PM PDT

One bad pixel -- and some reneging on the part of HP warranty support -- may spoil Christmas this year for one reader's family.

"I placed an order with HP for two laptops on Thanksgiving day at $1,800 each," the reader wrote. "I received them on December 7th and opened the first unit to prep for network install. I opened the second a few days later to do the same and noticed a bad pixel in the display. While a single pixel is not a serious flaw, the manufacturing process on these displays has gotten so good that I don't expect to see any bad pixels. I called HP and asked to have a warranty repair. I thought I was being fair in asking for a repair instead of a replacement -- HP will allow return with full reimbursement of the product within 30 days of purchase for orders over the web."

The reader could have ignored the bad pixel if not for the fact the laptops were Christmas presents for his two daughters, and the one who got the bad pixel would be unhappy about it. "The HP tech stated that the repair would be covered under warranty," the reader wrote. "I indicated that this was a Christmas gift and I needed it for the 25th, please verify the parts are in stock and allocated to my unit before I ship it back. He checked and told me I was all set. The warranty return box was delivered and the unit shipped back to HP. They received the unit on 17th. I received a call from HP on the 20th stating that the unit would not be repaired under warranty. I missed this phone call, so all I got from the call was the message. I called them back to find out why, and they would only tell me that it was not a repair covered under warranty. I asked why not and they would not elaborate -- just that if I wanted the display repaired, I would need to pay out $650."

When HP finally did give him an explanation, it was hard to believe. "They told me that I had damaged the display," the reader wrote. "One pixel? I confirmed with them that there was no other physical damage other than the one pixel. I could have the unit returned to me unrepaired, but that would be a $150.00 evaluation fee! With fees like this, don't give me any warranties! Speaking with many people in sales and support at HP about this case, each person seems to agree that it should be covered, but no one has the authority to get the repair done. Now it appears unlikely I will have this unit in time for the 25th. One daughter will be happy, while the other will be crying her eyes out. Since these are such large items, there won't be any other significant gifts under the tree. It's sure to be a memorable Christmas. Thank you, HP. My case number is 3208873143."

< A Fatal Blow to Shrinkwrap Licensing? | Live Gripes >

HP Plays Grinch | 65 comments (65 topical) | Post A Comment

HP[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 09:04:29 PM PDT

Yep, that certainly sounds like the "new" HP. Post this story in as many places as you can think of. Two excellent places would be:

http://www.theinquirer.net/
and
http://www.theregister.co.uk/

Especially the inquirer; they run stories about HP's decline all the time, I bet they'd love to run yours. That will get you a call back from HP fairly quickly, I'd bet. Just send your story to the editors at the email addreses posted on the site. It seems that HP will only respond to a customer's plea for help when it's made public, and makes them look bad.

[ Reply to This ]

HP[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Wed Dec 22, 2004 at 09:37:45 PM PDT

Also, file a dispute with the credit card issuer you used when you made the purchase from HP of the 2 notebooks. Since you bought from the manufacturer's web site, and the manufacturer is refusing to repair a defective unit under warranty, I'd think you've got a good case to dispute the purchase price on your credit card. I'd dispute the entire amount of the bill, not just the amount for one of the 2 notebooks. HP's arrogance towards consumers is really getting out of hand. They need to be punished severly.

[ Reply to This ]

I agree[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by tscoff on Thu Dec 23, 2004 at 03:41:02 PM PDT

That's ridiculous! You received a defective product out of the box. Dispute the credit card charge, call HP to return them both, and buy another brand.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Not for one pixel[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Sat Dec 25, 2004 at 06:22:08 PM PDT

Back when I used to work for a VAR our supplier generally would fix/replace a laptop screen with only one bad pixel. Generally it had to be 10 or more.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

One pixel...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#35)
by Reziac on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 12:38:16 PM PDT

What constitutes a defective LED screen depends on the manufacturer, and some state right in their warranties that only dead pixels "in the main field of view" (edge pixels are often not covered, even if the dead number in the hundreds), or more dead pixels than a certain minimum count, are covered.

That means if you ordered a unit, and it arrives with dead pixels, you're SOL (and one has to wonder if some manufacturers "dump" known defective units that way). So the only "safe" way to buy such things is if you can do hands-on inspection PRIOR TO PURCHASE.
~REZ~
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Go with Samsung[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#42)
by sconeu on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 08:27:12 AM PDT

Samsung now has a "no dead pixels" policy on the desktop LCD displays.

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States of America.
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

ccc[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#114)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 07:21:02 AM PDT

Return them both[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Fushigi on Thu Dec 23, 2004 at 05:57:02 AM PDT

Sorry that your daughters would be unhappy, but if they're old enough to be getting their own laptops they should be old enough to understand the circumstances.

Since you're still within your 30 days, I say return them both & buy another brand. Be up front and tell HP why you're returning them. Let them know you'll be buying a pair of ThinkPads, Latitudes, or something else.

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Grinch[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Fri Dec 24, 2004 at 07:29:46 AM PDT

Rather harsh. You must not celebrate Christmas. Maybe you have no children, or they have no father. Not quite sure. This is not a business associate that is waiting for a tool to be productive. This is about children awakening Christmas morning with much anticipation over receiving a special gift. An adult may be able to understand this situation and contain their dissappointment, but I doubt their feelings would change. I don't think you get it.

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Sad[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Fri Dec 24, 2004 at 10:41:38 AM PDT

If your kids are too immature to understand WHY you sent the computer in and why HP service sucks, then they don't deserve the computer. Must be nice to be able to afford 3600 on two laptop for ungrateful children...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Maturity[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 06, 2005 at 09:28:46 AM PDT

When one of your daughters posted herself, she sounded more mature than you give her credit for. Your little princesses are growing up.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

They could care less[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Mon Dec 27, 2004 at 07:57:33 AM PDT

"Let them know you'll be buying a pair of ThinkPads, Latitudes, or something else."

Actually, the rep he'd be talking to could care less about what he does with his HPs. Trash-talking a company to a phone rep is an exercise in futility. Been there (both sides of the phone), done that.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Return the computers![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Thu Dec 23, 2004 at 03:34:03 PM PDT

For crying out loud, RETURN the computers! You need to stick it to HP - even in this small way - because if they are treating you that way now as a BRAND NEW customer, how do you think you will be treated further down the line? In fact, when you return, you should make sure you print off all the comments here and on slash and mail them all to the president's office at HP along with you complaint, neatly typed out. The only way change can ever happen is to take action. To let a company abuse you in such a way is ludicrous. They're supposed to be the ones hungry for your business instead of you having to bow down at their altar of greediness.

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HP Repair[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Fri Dec 24, 2004 at 07:05:27 AM PDT

HP has outsourced their support to ZOYTO and can be found at zoyto.com. The people that work there don't seem to have a shred of business sense, or common sense for that matter. I was told the final decision maker on this repair was Isaac. On the 22nd I only had his name and email address, so I sent him an email. I had just finished a call with my HP sales rep. (Who is outstanding!), when Isaac called me back. He told me that he needed proof of purchase and was waiting to get it from my sales rep. (I'm puzzled by his lack of knowledge. How would the warranty group know if the unit was in/out of warranty without this info. and further, accept/decline repair without it?). I called the sales rep. back and he told me that the documentation had been sent to Isaac. (I have a track record with sales, and I believe he did what he said he did). On the 23rd at 10am after flipping another email to Isaac, he calls me. States that he is still waiting for the P-O-P. ----continued below---------

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cont[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Fri Dec 24, 2004 at 07:18:59 AM PDT

I go to the HP web site and print the order that shows: Order date, ship date, delivery date, SNs and every component installed. Emailed that to Isaac who tells me that he thinks this will be considered a DOA. I tell him I don't care how it's classified, just tell me when I will have it back in new condition. He won't commit. 4:30 on the 23rd I call and speak to Isaac's super (Lynn) and she tells me that there is nothing can be done right now. After much discussion, she tells me that it is being escalated to another team to make a decision, which won't be reviewed until the 27th! Pleading to speak to a higher authority went nowhere, and after bubbling over in frustration, I made it clear to them that I was not going to waste any more time with them and my being reasonable has been exhausted. I hang up and decide to return both units. I received a call some 15 min. later from a customer service rep. She is incredibly nice and listens to the whole story. She cannot get the unit repaired but offers to assist me in returning the units. (Apparently ZOYTO had flipped this to her stating that they were not going to work with me? I only wish ZOYTO had told me up front on the 20th that they would not repair the unit since that seems to be where it ended.) BTW. The second unit is also defective. It won't run on the battery. Both units are being returned.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Typical HP garbage....[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Fri Dec 24, 2004 at 12:53:57 PM PDT

I've never seen an HP system that I liked. I have a few of their printers and they work pretty well. However, I would never buy one of their computers. Too many bad experiences with other people's HP's. After reading this article, I seriously doubt that I will purchase any more of their printers either. I can't believe that any company would treat someone that poorly. A company that would should be drummed out of business. What an appalling situation.

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No significant HP problems with business 'puters..[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:28:37 AM PDT

We use nothing but HP/Compaq here at work. The only time I had a serious problem is when I had two HP Vectra VL800's that used RAMBUS memory. The system boards failed on both computers. I have had other problems, such as hard drive failures. Since hard drives have something like a 5 year life span, give or take about a year, you will get a bad one every now and then. Hard drive warranties are typically 3 years because it is likely that it will fail after 3.5 to 7.5 years. For warranty issues, I have never had a problem with HP. They send me what I need next day, then I send them the defective part. I let them know that I am an IT manager and have already determined the part is no good and they accept that - no questions asked! Other than the rare hard drive problem (which is the hard drive manufacturers' problems, not HP's since HP does not make their own hard drives) and other than with the VL800's, the HP/Compaqs work great! Now for the home user HP's - not quite as good. Support sucks if you are out of warranty. I would steer clear of any Pavilions or anything that they make that comes preinstalled with Win XP Home Edition. Buy a business grad HP from Insight or CDW or some other reputable online store (but not directly from HP since you will be ripped off). Circuit City, Best Buy, etc seems to be home user stuff. If you buy business grade PCs and want support, you will have much better luck. It seems that those who have problems with HPs are users who buy that cheap home stuff and have no real clue what to get when it comes to computers. I laugh at those who say that Dell or Gateway are the best... ;~)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Business Class[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 04:55:45 PM PDT

FYI. These units were nx 7010 Compaq branded HP models. XP Pro. Just for the curious: 2.8g Centrion 512mb 49g HD Integrate 802.11g (Intel) 15.4 LCD the usual ports. The buyer, me, is an HP reseller and run my own network consulting business. I have been using Compaq since 87. I too, have had all good experiences. ...until now.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Maybe marginally better to business[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#54)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 19, 2005 at 10:17:54 AM PDT

We are also a Compaq (now HP/Compaq) shop. We ordered a Proliant ML330 G3 server with a SCSI drive installed, as well as a second SCSI drive to be integrated here. When it got here, and I installed the second drive, it would not boot. I found that it would boot with either disk, but not both. Simple, hmmm? Called HP, told them that I had a bad SCSI controller and gave them the Spare Part number. They came back with, "Oh no, that's the wrong controller card. We never ship ML330's with that part." I am now playing "it can't be/but that's what was in the unit" ping pong.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

did it ever occur.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#58)
by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 09:31:32 AM PDT

hey moron...did it ever occure that the two hard drives might be assigned the same scsi id.....man u are stupid...trying changing the scsi id on one and see what happens then...

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

File a complaint to the attorney general[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Fri Dec 24, 2004 at 03:11:29 PM PDT

I suggest that in addition to the suggested measures, you also file a complaint with the attorney general of the state where HP is located, complaining about their bad business practices and send a copy to the president of HP.

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Credit card services[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Mon Dec 27, 2004 at 10:15:44 AM PDT

If the laptops were purchased by credit card, it may offer services such as "Purchase Assurance" or "Extended Warranty" that are available for repair assistance outside the direct to manufacturer channel. The above names are from MasterCard, but I believe Visa and Amex offer similar services. Incidentally, Mastercard's service center is 800-MC-ASSIST.

A gentle comment about your daughters' feelings. I humbly suggest that a substantial part of their reaction will be keyed from yours. I sympathize that you are deeply frustrated that there will not be the joy of a gift well chosen, and well received. Due to the expense of the planned gifts, there is a scarcity of other presents as well. I wish you success in being creative with your time and affection to your daughters. If you grew up at times without many material things, try to recall the simple things that brought joy. I'll bet those weren't that expensive.

[ Reply to This ]

Unwrapped[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 09:00:58 AM PDT

Thank you for your considerate suggestions. I am extremely fortunate to have 2 beautiful, intelligent and grateful daughters (which they obviously inherited from their mother). We wrapped up 2 laptops (taken from my consulting business). When opened, the girls were ecstatic. We explained that these were for their exclusive use until their own working units arrived. We then spent the day with both sides of our family as we do every year.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

May I suggest...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Sun Jan 02, 2005 at 04:28:10 PM PDT

I would like to suggest you get them a Toshiba, IBM, Alienware, or Acer brand notebook (if you want x86) otherwise a powerbook is very nice.

In my experience everything else is garbage.

HP/Compaq - Wost tech support ever.
Dell - Cheap components
Sony - Flaky & persnikety
Gateway (& hence E-Machines) - Known to cheat you on parts - sell you much less then what you bought & crappy support to.

IBM is the leader for durability.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

HP/Compaq support IS good[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:35:29 AM PDT

Just don't buy a pavilion or anything else preloaded with Win XP Home. PCs and laptops intended for home use are junk, and so is the support. Buy business grade products and get good business class support.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

HP Pavilion PCs[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by weebles on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:06:14 AM PDT

I have bought 2 HP Pavilion PCs, one direct and one from Best Buy. Both were top notch values in terms of components provided for the price. Both are well made and very quiet. No failures (one is 2 years old, one is about 6 mos old). However, this is all meaningless. Individual experience with this kind of hardware is not statistically significant. The only judgements you can really draw about hardware should come from a Consumer Reports survey or PC Magazine survey of at least hundreds of customers. And here is what PC Mag said this year: "HP and Compaq PCs scored D- and E overall last year, respectively. This year they're both E's, no matter how you slice the numbers, except for first-year owners, who give Compaq a D. For measures of technical support and repair experience (such as time waiting for help or getting a repair right the first time), both Compaq and HP are worse than average on 12 out of 15 items. By comparison, Dell is better than average on 7 measures, average on 7, and worse than average on 1 ("Tech understood my problem")."

Carley sure must be proud.

Individual interactions with HP Care are not generally significant either for the same reason. What is significant here is the pattern and the policy and while neither is clear, neither is reassuring. I am about to buy a 3rd PC which was going to be another Pavilion (because I know they are quiet) but I may look around some more. I have heard horror stories about every manufacturer but the PC Mag results look pretty clear. I may still end up with a Pavilion but at least I know that the cheap price doesn't include any service.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Thanks Dad![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Thu Dec 30, 2004 at 06:17:07 PM PDT

Thank you for leaving these wonderful (and some not so wonderful) comments for my dad. He is amazing and I'm more than grateful for my new computer. I am going to college in the fall and this Christmas gift was not one that I 'wanted', but one that I Needed for my future education. Dad- You are amazing and I love you so much. Thank you for going through all this trouble for a simple gift. As for HP, I don't know much about the business, however- I have learned that not everything goes your way. I think HP has some serious problems that need to be sorted out and worked on. I'm still extreamly excited for my new computer!

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HP notebooks[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:56:20 AM PDT

He should have bought Macintosh iBooks.

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Macintosh[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#37)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 01:40:23 PM PDT

>He should have bought Macintosh iBooks.

Why do Mac users always post these stupic, unhelpful comments?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

build-it-yourself[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#43)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 10:03:44 AM PDT

because noone will erase it

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

hp service[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by aoz on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:59:20 AM PDT

to the college kids - (I try to teach this to mY kids also) REMEMBER this lesson, when these same companies want you to buy their nice photo printers (ink is pegged at 29 cents per print), and print pretty little pictures, and when these same companies (hp-ipod) want you and your friends to buy lots of songs from them from their downloadable music stores, etc. The dollars of you and your friends talk. If you buy related products from said companies, then they have no impetus to improve service; they continue to make monies on the supplies to these products. To the dad - quit buying HP. I switched to Toshiba long time ago for notebooks, and to EMACHINES for desktop units. cost is better, Units are reliable, and service is NOT ANY WORSE than HP. I quit buying other HP equipment also; I had a less-than-one-year old scanner, and switched to WinXP, and no updated driver was made available for the scanner (for their document feeder, for which I paid a premium price) I would have even PAID for the driveR ! Whatever, just my two cents.. Nick

[ Reply to This ]

My Experience with HP[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:51:35 AM PDT

I bought a HP laptop. My experienc with it was sour. The best thing that happened was that it was stolen. I almost felt sorry for the thief. The replacement was a ThinkPad and I will never go back to HP. I have told this to several clients and they have all moved their new purchases from HP.

[ Reply to This ]

My Experience with HP[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:03:44 AM PDT

Tech support gives erroneous info - and on some machines, a BIOS update is only applicable through Windows!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

I have forwarded your story to internal cust. care[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:06:16 AM PDT

After reading this thread, I am almost afraid to admit this, but I work for HP. We have an internal "Voice of the Customer" reporting system which is supposed get 'immediate, real' responses to reported issues. I have forwarded your story to this group (copy-n-paste of the article) including your case#. Hopefully, you should hear from a real person with real empowerment who can put together a real solution for you. Robert

[ Reply to This ]

HP and modern customer service[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:14:54 AM PDT

I have long stopped buying from HP, Dell and the likes because of extremely poor customer service. Unless you are a big corporate buyer, small IT shops are not interesting to these overgrown monster companies. I would dispute the credit card charge, call it DOA and send a letter to Fiorina telling her her company, like many other US companies are doing a great job at killing conumer faith. They should not whine when less and less people buy from them. IBM is much better but buying from a company like CDW is a little more expensive, you get an extra warrantee. Remember this thing about we the people have the power. Show these companies they can't treat customers like that. Nick

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Internal Reporting...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#28)
by weebles on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:17:44 AM PDT

Hey HP person,

The major corporation I work for has similar mechanisms. But they are pointless to use. We get customers complaining all the time. Sometimes the complaints get to top execs and an email trickles down telling the workers to fix the problem ASAP. However, nobody ever sends the email telling the business managers who create the processes and policies to fix those things. Major corporations today are all trying to take cost out of their products and care is a top spot to cut. Given customer inertia (like my own) they can gamble that the odds are low I'll have a problem (may 30%-40% have a problem) and of those 30%, maybe only 50% will have a bad care experience, so really only 15% of customers get pissed. Then only x% of them get pissed enough to go somewhere else and they are balanced by the y% that get pissed at Dell and come to HP.

This really is a crap shoot and a game and you have to treat it as such.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Good, because it needs attention[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#50)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 01:48:47 PM PDT

I'm pleased you took the time to post your query to the Powers That Be at Hewlett-Packard. I'm near certain both Gentlemen, Hewlett and Packard, will fairly spin in their graves to see from heaven what's happening to customer service. My objection to all of this isn't the fact that they refused warranty service seemingly arbitrarily, though that is bad enough. My objection is that the gentleman here was told one thing by the phone support-tech, and told something other by the repair service. What volume of information can be deduced from this occurance? 1.) You can't believe a word that a lowlevel HP phone support-tech says to you, because it's pretty clear he talks through his hat. 2.) It's pretty clear HP doesn't operate the repair center, and that HP hired poorly whatever service center botched this. 3.) HP phone support, the folks who deal with the public, aren't in any position to assist the public with hardware repair under warranty. If the Public portion of HP says yes and makes arrangement under warrant, and a low-level warranty repair tech can say no and make it stick, then what was the sense in offering a warranty and making arrangement; costing everyone time and money. Makes one wonder if warranty tech-support works for HP, or whether HP works for the warranty tech-support they hired. In any case, it shows the failure of communication between the two and if it occurs here where else in this corporation is this a problem. If the gentleman doesn't receive two tested and perfect Omnibook replacements from HP corporate then I'll log this one as a failure for them. Kind of turns me cold . . . and I too sell HP . . . well, maybe not so much anymore. - Caitlain

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Same thing with an HP printer[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#27)
by ChipMicro on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:17:15 AM PDT

A few years ago (I know, I know - that was then this is now - my point exactly, because the traits haven't changed), I install their printer software, and it freezes my PC. Locks it up so badly I have to poke around using DOS to manually delete a couple of files that were installed and make some changes so Windows will come up. I call their tech support asking for a list of the files that their driver disk installs so I can know which files to delete (at the time I was a novice user trying to straighten this out at - surprise - Christmas time, and DLL's truly did mean something at that time). Their tech support agent spends 15 minutes with me explaining that it is impossible for their software to cause Windows to fail to boot up. I explain to Sunny Jim that his company's software not only can do that, it did do that, and that he needed to bump the call to someone who could actually help me get that list of files. He then goes through the same spiel all over again. I finally wound up having to spend the remaining part of my day going sub-directory by sub-directory and deleting files that looked suspicious, then re-booting to see if I got the right ones. It doesn't surprise me in the least that a company who fails to provide as much attention to supporting what they make and sell as they do to producing slick ads would then buy up a company famous for making their entire PC boxes proprietary so you could only buy their replacements or upgrades. It makes all the sense in the world, though it makes nothing right at all. They have done it for years, and will probably continue to do it until someone wakes up and realizes that you can buy two generic machines for the same price as one of their boxes and comes the the realization that buying HP is only useful if you want to look like you have cash to burn. Technology is complicated, and the true winner is the one who can give users warm fuzzies once they have been parted from their ducats.

[ Reply to This ]

HP is reknown for poor tech support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:25:18 AM PDT

I had a client who ordered a PC from me but then couldn't wait for delivery so they bought an HP Pavilion from Dell. They upgraded XP Home to XP Pro. When WordPerfect started crashing frequently, they called HP tech support and were told that the PC was not certified for XP Pro. If they wanted help with the problem they would have to reinstall XP Home and then call. That law office learned its lesson and won't be buying another HP.

[ Reply to This ]

The lesson?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#51)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 11, 2005 at 12:52:04 PM PDT

Don't install operating systems on hardware not certified to run it?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

OEM vs Retail[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#52)
by foxyshadis1 on Wed Jan 12, 2005 at 11:52:41 PM PDT

It could probably run XP Pro just fine, with an OEM install with correct drivers/dohickeys. Although I'm surprised a desktop completely failed that way; usually it's laptops that do that. Could it have been something besides the new installation, possibly something the reinstall left the machine vulnerable to?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Another HP ex-user[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#30)
by dbranca on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:26:11 AM PDT

I have also recently "left" HP As a consultant and now CTO of a small company I have always spec'd HP especially their printers. I have also always been the goto person for friends and family. After a recent problem with an all-in-one color photo printer I finally threw in the towel. I have been gradually noving away from HP but this was the straw. I have switched to Brother and Lexmark for printers, Toshiba and IBM for notebooks.

[ Reply to This ]

Why friends don't let friends buy HP[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#31)
by dlauber on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:34:11 AM PDT

This person's experience is yet another reason why friends shouldn't let friends buy HP. I had a similar problem when my HP scanner (my LAST HP scanner) physically broke down (the light stopped moving and was stuck in mid-flight). HP tech support tried to blame it on the drivers, but finally admitted it was a physical problem and they'd be happy to look at it for a $175 fee (more than the price of a new scanner). This after being charged for new drivers when Windows 98SE came out..... I've switched to Epson scanners and have been a happy camper ever since.

HP also posted incorrect instructions for updating the BIOS on a friend's HP computer. After following the instructions to the letter, and thereby frying the CMOS, we spent over an hour with HP tech support before they finally admitted the wrong instructions had been posted on HP's website for over 3 months. But it wasn't their responsibility to get the instructions fixed. They eventually sent my friend a new computer (he swapped the hard drives).

I cannot fathom why anybody would buy an HP product anymore. (But my 8-year old LaserJet 4000 keeps chugging along -- built when HP knew how to build a printer.

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HP Cust Svc[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:35:02 AM PDT

I'm a little behind the times, so I have been thinking of installing a wireless router at home and picking up a laptop so that I can use it anywhere in the house. Cut the leash, so to speak. I had really been leaning toward the HP with the 17" monitor. They seem to be the only ones who realize that, with a 17" monitor, you have room for a full-size keyboard with external numerics. After reading this, I think I just changed my mind. I have a Dell desktop and, unless you're using the software that came with the PC, in the manner they expect it to be used, their support kind of sucks. I will say their hardware support was really good - once I convinced them I had a hardware problem. On the other hand, I still have one of the first 486 laptops that Toshiba ever made sitting somewhere. I suspect, if the battery were charged, it would still fire up and work as good as ever (as good as a 486 laptop would work). I had a ThinkPad in my last job; it was O.K., but that's about it. I have no experience with Acer or Alienware. I've looked at a PowerBook. My sister-in-law is a creative type and has one. But I don't think I'm ready to go to the dark side yet - or to learn all new applications. I may have just talked myself into a Toshiba.

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Toshiba for notebooks, local for desktops[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#33)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 12:07:57 PM PDT

I use Toshibas for notebooks, and have been having excellent experiences with each one.

After dealing with a variety of the Big Names over the years, I started going with a local shop where they build the systems I use from top of the line components. I don't have to compromise to get a good price, and they give me a five year parts and labor warranty on everything.

When I had a hard drive go wonky on one of the systems they built for me, I carried the box in and they pulled the drive and put a new one in.

No charge.

They then got the old drive into one of their bench boxes and sent me away. A day later I got a call that they had the drive running, and would I like to rescue the data from it? They said they could do it, but that would cost me money. I could do it myself for zip-zero-nada, and could either bring the box in or they'd give me a good price on a new external drive. I opted to pick up the new drive.

They had it slipped into the bench box before I arrived, and I sat down and retrieved the data I needed. Then we did a DoD wipe of all the data files and empty space on the old drive before they returned the drive to the manufacturer. When I was done, they pulled the new drive and handed it to me. I took it home and it's working merrily along.

Certainly would never have been able to do that with HP!

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Toshiba is no better.[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#49)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jan 08, 2005 at 03:01:45 AM PDT

I have purchased Toshiba's for over 15 years. I recomemded them highly and have sold them on ocasion. After the last no more. I bought a P25 in November of 2003. The glidepad was always eratic. I reported that to Toshiba witin days of the purchase, but was unwilling to part with the machine. Besides I was assured it was a driver problem. In truth I have never found a laptop with a reliable glidepad - but this was by far the worst. By March keys on the keyboard were no longer reliable - I have never worn a keyboard out before - much less in less than 6 months. Finally, just a few days before a ritical business presentation, the power connector on the laptop motherboard failed. I returned the unit for a guaranteed 24hr (plus shipping time) warantee repair. About a week later I received a call from somebody in Turkey, telling me my P25 somewhere in the US would nto be repaired under Warantee and it would cost me atleast $600 to get it fixed. That I had obviously spilled something in it, and dropped it, ..... After several days of phone calls arguments, escalations, I eventually had the unit returned. On receipt I tore it apart and took digital photos of the insides - there is no evidence that anything spilled on it - in fact there is no evidence Toshiba ever looked at it. There was still a light coat of dust all over the inside. I could go on (and on).

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#112)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

HP Problem as well[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 12:11:21 PM PDT

I bought one of their new 8450 photo and installed their printer software, or attempted to. It failed with a fatal error and referred me to the HP website to look it up and fix it. Turns out in order for the software to install, you have to install an MDAC update. And here is the kicker - in order to install the update, you have to change permissions in your registry! What average computer owner is going to be able to do all that? What a joke.

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re[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 01:21:30 PM PDT

We've come such a long way, and unfortunately in the wrong direction. I remember when you could pick up the phone, call HP, and not only get fabulous support- but you could get it from an engineer who actually knew about the _specific_ product you were inquiring about, not some minium-wage burger-flipper going down the flowchart on the website.

This experience you had is just appaling. And there's no excuse for it.

Like someone else above said: What a great job you've done, Carly.

-Pink

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Well, at least one mfr has the right idea...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#38)
by ethiksgradient on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 01:56:32 PM PDT

If the following link is accurate, Samsung have announced a zero dead pixel policy on their LCD screens:

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200412/200412300018.html

Small comfort to your reader, I know, but it raises the question: if Samsung can do it, what's HP's excuse?

(My HP Support anecdote: We had 24x7, 4x4 cover on a business-critical LaserJet 9000; it took 3 weeks just to get a tech out to it. We didn't bother purchasing any more extended warranties for HP kit after that.)

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Laptops[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#39)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 03:06:53 PM PDT

Our IT group only buys Toshiba laptops. We started this when I was IT director. Over the years we have purchase maybe 50, so we are not a big customer. We are a small college and the first to get the laptops were our recruiters. They were treated roughly to say the least. College fairs with people coming by punching the keys, putting them in the case and throwing them into the back of the car, etc. One recruiter had purse in one hand, milk shake in the other, and laptop in the case hanging from her shoulder. She could not get her keys out of her purse and unlock the car with all that. She puts the milk shake and the laptop on the roof of the car, unlocks the door, gets the shake and gets into the car. You know what happened: the laptop slides off the roof and lands on the ground on a back corner. The LCD only works on the right side now. I sent it to a Toshiba service center for repair and noted on the RMA that the unit had fallen from the roof of a car and that we considered this other than normal use. A week later we get the unit back with a new screen, but no repair bill. I called the repair center and was informed that upon checking with Toshiba they were told to do the screen replacement under warranty. I asked if they had explained to Toshiba that the damage was due to abuse, i.e. a fall of 5 or 6 feet from the roof of a car to concrete? They said that Toshiba had been informed and had responded that their screens should withstand a drop from 10 feet to concrete without a case and if it did not it would be replaced under warranty. Admittedly this happened over 2 years ago and things may have changed, but we have never had a problem with getting laptops repaired under warranty if it was still within the warranty period. Guess which laptop I recommend when a friend asks!

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Toshiba Laptops[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 04:05:49 PM PDT

I've had a Toshiba laptop for a year now, my only gripe being with tech support when I recently called to find out where the HD was hidden because I wanted to install a bigger one. (Turns out it's under a plate under the DVD.) The first guy gave me utterly wrong directions that lead to the CPU cooling fan instead. The second guy looked over his diagrams and admitted to being stumped, at which point I did what I should have from the start and turned to Google.

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HP support[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#40)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 04:02:10 PM PDT

Ive been very lucky regarding my three laptops that I currently have from HP. I use them overseas and on occassion had one in to be repaired under warranty with no problem. While I would really be as angry as you regarding this issue, I would suggest that you also copy the warranty agreement as well as your other documents and forward to you state attorney generals office for possible consumer fraud, and also send a copy of your complaint to PC weekly and other mags that someone else suggested. While it does not make up for what they did, it will bring home the notion of customer service it lacking greatly with HP. Good luck to you

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Don't pay for it![ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#44)
by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:49:19 PM PDT

I've generally had better luck with HP than with other manufacturers, but they, too, may prove me wrong. Whenever possible, for home use, I'd buy the unit from a brick and mortar store, such as Circuit City. If anything AT ALL is wrong with it, I immediately return it for a full refund (I won't deal with Best Buy because they are likely to screw you out of the refund or at least a "restocking" fee). If they won't give the money back, I refuse to pay the credit card bill and let Visa or MC deal with the problem.

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Retail[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#46)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 06, 2005 at 09:14:18 AM PDT

If you must buy a PC at retail (and the above post is a good reason to do so), then if possible in your area, buy it from Costco. Their return policy is excellent, and well worth becoming a member. (Notebooks/PC return policy is 6 months, any reason.) No re-stock fees, either.

Credit Card chargebacks are about the only real weapon a consumer has left against these multi-national conglomerates that are out to cheat the consumer.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Agreed![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#48)
by sconeu on Thu Jan 06, 2005 at 04:13:47 PM PDT

At my (small) office, we needed a one-off laptop ASA