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Battle of the Forms

By Ed Foster, Section EULA Reviews
Posted on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 11:25:34 AM PDT
As described in my "Countering Sneakwrap" column, below is Professor Woodward's "Battle of the Forms" paper. It includes the dispute resolution terms from the Sprint user agreement that he was countering and the form he created to do so. -- Ed Foster


Battle Of The Forms

WHAT YOU CAN DO TO PRESERVE YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO GO TO COURT AGAINST BUSINESSES THAT RIP YOU OFF.

by William J. Woodward, Jr.
Professor of Law
Temple University
January 22, 2002

Here's how to give banks and telephone companies a dose of their own medicine with your own contract forms! (Please see "Caveats" below.)

THE PROBLEM

If you were to take the time to actually read the "stuffers" - the stacks of legal-looking documents that come with your utility bills and bank statements - you might be in for a surprise. Increasingly, these fine-printed, boring documents are new "terms of contract" claiming to govern the relationship you have with the provider. The practice is common in all forms of business with business and consumers alike. But what is new is a set of provisions limiting your access to courts and juries and limiting your ability to get meaningful relief if the seller or lender either doesn't comply with its service obligations or disobeys state or federal law.

These are the increasingly prevalent "dispute resolution" terms where the vendor's form proclaims that you give up your rights to sue in a court of law, that you opt for arbitration instead, and that you are not permitted to join with others in a class action against the provider.

These forms, typically, will assert that you agree to the new terms if you continue using the service or fail to object to the form. They claim your are stuck with the new terms if you do nothing.

Vendors know there will be few objections because few customers take the time to read the forms. Those few that do read the forms are unlikely to understand what they mean, or will believe they are stuck with whatever the form proclaims to be "the agreement."

You will find two kinds of these new terms in these stuffers. The first is your purported agreement to go to arbitration with any complaints you might have, instead of to a court. This means no appeal, perhaps no report or explanation of the decision, perhaps more limited relief, and may also mean substantially more fees than for a court in order to get the process going and substantial fees if you lose.

The other increasingly-common term is a prohibition on "class actions." This is a kind of law suit in which thousands of people who got cheated just a little by a business, can join forces, pool their resources and sue the business. Sellers and lenders know that if they cheat "just a little," few of the thousands or millions of individuals involved will find it worthwhile to pursue legal rights against them. Class actions solve this problem by joining all such claimants together so they can hire counsel and deprive the vendor of the unjust gain. Their purpose is not so much to get a dollar or two for the class members involved as it is to benefit the group generally by depriving the seller or lender of their motivation for cheating "just a little." A friend recently got a check for $10. This was his portion of a class action settlement with a business who had been accused of miscounting the minutes that its bills to consumers were based on. The Company had to pay over a total of approximately $74 Million in ill-gotten gains.

Class actions have become a very important form of consumer relief in the past 50 years, particularly with banks and utility companies. They benefit millions of consumers each year by keeping businesses honest. The "stuffers" say that you will not participate in such actions. It is easy to see that this is a huge escape from liability by the business if this "contract" not to bring class actions is effective.

A series of recent Supreme Court decisions has emboldened businesses; drafting "stuffers" with such provisions has become a cottage industry for lawyers representing businesses. There is plenty of business advantage to including such forms and (because customers don't read or understand the forms) little disadvantage in doing so.

But many people believe that you don't agree unless you do something to show your agreement. An old legal maxim proclaims "silence is not assent" and many believe this is particularly true when important rights are at stake. Occasionally, consumers have pressed these positions in court and won. But there may be a better approach, one that gives the envelope stuffers a dose of their own medicine.

ONE SOLUTION-THE "BATTLE OF THE FORMS"

When businesses trade with other businesses who can afford their own lawyers, they find (not surprisingly) that other business have contract forms of their own. Since forms for business sellers and business buyers alike are written by lawyers, you can understand that they will be one-sided, in favor of the business that hires the lawyer to draft the form (that is, after all, the lawyer's job!). In these settings, the business sellers send their (one-sided) forms to their buyers and the buyers respond by sending their (opposite-sided) forms with their order or with their payment. Each business has the objective of getting the contract their way rather than their partner's.

This exchange of legal contract forms is referred to in legal circles as the "battle of the forms." Given who is drafting the forms in the business vs. business battle of forms, the seller's form and the buyer's form will almost certainly conflict with one another. Most of the time, no one notices any conflict because (like consumers) everyone is too busy to read all the forms. But when a dispute arises, a judge has to make sense of the fact that there are two form contracts vying for control, not just one. Since there can be only one contract, the law has had to find a way to resolve this "battle of the forms."

The prevalent approach the courts have now taken is to see the terms in the forms that conflict as canceling one another out, leaving the seller and buyer to the background law on the questions that the forms conflicted on. So, for example, if the seller's form said "very limited warranty" and the buyer's form said "very big warranty," many courts would strike out both terms and leave the parties to whatever "warranty" the law otherwise prescribes. Most consumers are not lawyers and most are only barely aware of the implications of the "stuffers." They obviously don't have lawyer-drafted forms for dealing with their sellers and lenders. So we have not seen a "battle of the forms" take place at the consumer level. Moreover, Seventh Circuit Judge Easterbrook has opined that if the vendor sends a form but the consumer does not respond, the vendor's form controls -- in effect, he thinks it takes two forms to do battle.

There is no reason that a consumer cannot have her own form and do battle with a business that has tried to take away important rights by sending out its one-sided form to the consumer. There even seems to be a little poetic justice in it.

The contract form attached was designed for use with a utility supplier such as Sprint. Sprint's form, a portion of which is also attached, purports to bind its customers if the customers continue to do business with Sprint. The attached form responds, largely in Sprint's own language, and purports to bind Sprint if Sprint continues to do business with the vendee. It basically reverses the particular provisions found objectionable, returning them to the rights everyone else has, at least those who have not received a stuffer.

Obviously, the form is a sample only and would have to be modified for a different service or credit provider. But if you've gotten this far, you can easily make the necessary modifications.

There are some caveats in order. First, there is no guarantee that your form will control or have any legal effect whatsoever. Since consumers have not used contract forms in the past, there is no precedent for a court to bring a "battle of the forms" analysis to the problem. If these conflicting terms became important in a case in court, probably the worse that could happen is that a court would give the vendor its terms and ignore your form. On the other hand, sellers and lenders recognize that you are very unlikely to read or understand their forms, even though they remove many significant rights you have in the event a dispute comes up. Because your form only returns the legal rights to "normal"-the way they were before the vendor dispatched its "stuffer"-- courts may well be warm to the idea that your form is effective in blocking the vendor's.

Second, in sending in the form, you run the risk that your vendor will terminate your service. This is because the form obtains the vendor's agreement if the vendor does not terminate service, just as the vendor's form purports to get your agreement if you continue to receive service. You should be prepared for this and be willing to secure alternative services if the vendor decides to end the relationship. We might guess that many vendors would prefer to hold on to your business rather than to fight about your form.

Finally, because this is very "non-traditional," you may be seen by some as a little eccentric, as "rocking the boat" or as "getting in the way of business." Some of you will respond positively to such perceptions and some will react negatively.

I would be most interested in your experience with these documents.

William J. Woodward, Jr.
January 22, 2002

CAVEAT 1: The theory supporting the approach taken below is untested in court. If you take this approach, you risk having the service / credit supplied by your vendor cut off if they elect not to comply with your terms. In addition, a court may decide not to recognize the approach outlined below in the consumer context (it is well-recognized in the business arena).

CAVEAT 2: The approach taken below is "benign" in the sense that it doesn't purport to change the phone rates or the like but, rather, simply brings consumer rights back to where they were (and ought to be) before the arbitration / no class action clause arose. Whatever the chances that this approach will succeed, they are tied to the specific terms dealt with here.

There is, of course, no warranty that this approach will work, or that it will not have unanticipated negative consequences in other cases. Users proceed at their own risk. Please be careful!!

______________________________

FROM SPRINT TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SERVICE, PUB. NO. 9300A.40 8/01

1. APPLICATION OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SERVICE

1.1. General Application. These Terms and Conditions of Service (terms and Conditions), together with the current rates and restrictions applicable to your calling plan (Rates or Rate Schedule), constitute your agreement with Sprint (Agreement) for the Services that you purchase from Sprint Communications Company L.P. (Sprint). The Rate Schedules are incorporated into this Agreement by reference and are a part of this Agreement. YOUR ENROLLMENT IN. USE OF OR PAYMENT FOR THE SERVICES CONSTITUTES YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF AND AGREEMENT TO THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH SPRINTS RATE SCHEDULES OR TERMS AND CONDITIONS, DO NOT USE THE SERVICES AND CALL SPRINT CUSTOMER SERVICE IMMEDIATELY FOR INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO CANCEL THE SERVICES.

1.2. Changes to Rates. Terms and Conditions. Sprint reserves the right to change its Rate Schedules or Terms and Conditions at any time. All changes to existing service and product offerings will be posted on Sprint's website at www.sorint.com/ratesandconditions/ at least 15 days before they become effective. In addition, Sprint may notify you in advance of any significant changes to these documents, including any increases to the Rates applicable to your calling plan, in one of the other ways identified in Section 13.9. . . . YOUR CONTINUED USE OF THE SERVICES CONSTITUTES YOUR AGREEMENT TO SPRINT'S RATES, TERMS AND CONDITIONS THAT ARE IN EFFECT AT THE TIME YOU USE THE SERVICES.

.
.
.

8. DISPUTE RESOLUTION

8.1. This Section applies to any dispute between you and Sprint arising out of or relating to this Agreement, including any dispute you may have regarding the Services, charges for Services, advertising, or any other dispute that either you or Sprint has that is related to this Agreement, even if the dispute arises after your Service has terminated. All disputes must be resolved as described in this Section. YOU AGREE THAT ANY DISPUTE WILL NOT BE RESOLVED BY A JUDGE OR JURY IN COURT (EXCEPT FOR SMALL CLAIMS COURT, IF APPLICABLE). YOU FURTHER AGREE THAT ANY DISPUTE YOU MAY HAVE AGAINST SPRINT CANNOT BE JOINED WITH THE DISPUTE OF ANY OTHER PERSON OR ENTITY IN A LAWSUIT, ARBITRATION OR ANY OTHER PROCEEDING, OR RESOLVED ON A CLASS-WIDE BASIS.

8.2. If you have a dispute with Sprint, you must first call Sprint's Customer Service department at the number listed on your invoice or write to Sprint at P.O. Box 569290, Dallas, TX 75356-9290, Attention: Manager, Executive Services, to attempt to resolve Your dispute. You must describe your dispute and provide Sprint with any supporting documentation. Likewise, if Sprint has a dispute with you it will notify you by letter sent to your billing address and attempt to resolve it before pursuing arbitration.

8.3. If either party is unable to resolve its dispute within 60 days of notifying the other party of the dispute, either party has the right to take the dispute to small claims court if it qualifies under the rules of that court. Alternatively, either party may request arbitration of the dispute through the American Arbitration Association (AAA). All disputes related to this Agreement that are not resolved informally or in small claims court, regardless of the legal or equitable theory under which they are brought, must be resolved through final and binding arbitration in accordance with the Federal Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C § 51-16. ANY REQUEST FOR ARBITRATION OF A DISPUTE ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THIS AGREEMENT MUST BE MADE WITH THE AAA WITHIN TWO YEARS OF: (a) THE DATE ON WHICH THE FIRST ACTION OR EVENT GIVING RISE TO THE DISPUTE OCCURRED, OR (b) IF THE DISPUTE INVOLVES CLAIMED OVERCHARGES BY SPRINT, THE DATE THAT SPRINT NOTIFIES YOU THAT THE CHARGES ARE VALID, WHICHEVER IS LATER.

8.4. The arbitration will be conducted by one arbitrator in accordance with the procedures outlined in this Section. The arbitrator is bound by the terms of this Agreement in conducting the arbitration and making any award, and may not modify or change its terms.

8.5. If the dispute involves $10,000 or less, the arbitration will be conducted according to the AAA'S Arbitration Rules for the Resolution of Consumer-Related Disputes in effect as of the date that a dispute is submitted to the AAA. as modified by this Agreement If the dispute involves more than $10,000, the arbitration will be conducted according to the AAA'S Commercial Arbitration Rules in effect as of the date that a dispute is submitted to the AAA, as modified by this Agreement. You may obtain a copy of the AAA'S arbitration rules and procedures from your local AAA office or by visiting their Web site at Www.adr.org.

8.6. You may be represented by an attorney in an arbitration. If the dispute involves less than $10,000, any in-person arbitration will be held at a location selected by the AAA in the state or area of your primary residence. If the dispute involves $10,000 or more any in-person arbitration will be held at a location selected by the AAA in the state or area of your primary residence or in the metropolitan Kansas City metropolitan area, at the option of the party filing the demand for arbitration. You and Sprint agree to keep all aspects of the arbitration confidential, including any testimony, documents, and award, except as may be required by law or to enforce any arbitration award.

8.7. Each party must pay its own expenses associated with any arbitration, including its attorney's fees. If you file a request for arbitration, you will have to pay a filing fee in accordance with the AAA fee schedule. Under AAA rules, some costs such as the arbitrator's fees and expenses will be allocated between the parties.

8.8. The arbitrator may not award punitive, exemplary, or similar damages, or attorney's fees. The parties agree that an award of such damages or fees will be void if issued. YOU AND SPRINT BOTH EXPRESSLY WAIVE ANY CLAIMS FOR DAMAGES THAT ARE EXCLUDED UNDER THIS AGREEMENT.

8.9. Judgment on the award rendered by the arbitrator may be entered in any court having jurisdiction thereof.

8.1O. In addition to the procedures described in this Section for resolving a dispute, you may also have the right to file a complaint with an appropriate federal or state regulatory agency.

8.11. If any portion of this Dispute Resolution Section is determined to be invalid or unenforceable, the remainder of the Section remains in full force and effect.

9. LIMITATIONS ON SPRINT'S LIABILITY. This Section describes the full extent of Sprint's liability to you for any claims in connection with the Services or this Agreement.

9.1. Liability Limitations.

A. SPRINT'S LIABILITY ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THIS AGREEMENT, INCLUDING FOR ANY PROBLEM YOU EXPERIENCE WITH THE SERVICES, WILL NOT EXCEED THE AMOUNT YOU ARE CHARGED FOR SERVICES DURING THE AFFECTED PERIOD. THIS INCLUDES, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, ANY DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF MISTAKES, OMISSIONS, INTERRUPTIONS, DELAYS, ERRORS, UNAVAILABILITY OR DEFECTS IN THE TRANSMISSION OF THE SERVICES.

B. SPRINT IS NOT LIABLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, INDIRECT. PUNITIVE OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES FOR ANY CAUSE OF ACTION, WHETHER IN CONTRACT OR TORT, ARISING OUT OF ITS PROVISION OF SERVICES OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SERVICES UNDER THIS AGREEMENT. CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL AND INDIRECT DAMAGES INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO, LOST PROFITS, LOST REVENUES AND LOSS OF BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY, WHETHER OR NOT SPRINT WAS AWARE OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF THESE DAMAGES.

C. SPRINT IS NOT LIABLE FOR ANY FAILURE OF PERFORMANCE DUE TO CAUSES BEYOND ITS CONTROL, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ACTS OF GOD, FIRES, METEOROLOGICAL PHENOMENA, FLOODS OR OTHER CATASTROPHES; NATIONAL EMERGENCIES, INSURRECTIONS, RIOTS OR WARS, STRIKES, LOCKOUTS, WORK STOPPAGES, OR OTHER LABOR DIFFICULTIES, ACTS OF THIRD PARTIES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOCAL OR FOREIGN TELEPHONE COMPANIES; AND ANY LAW ORDER, REGULATION OR OTHER ACTION OF ANY GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY

D. THIS SECTION CONTINUES TO APPLY AFTER THE AGREEMENT ENDS.

E. Nothing in this Section limits damages that are conclusively determined to be the direct result of Sprint's wanton or intentional misconduct.

9.1. No Warranties. SPRINT MAKES NO EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES ABOUT ITS SERVICES THAT ARE NOT EXPRESSLY CONTAINED IN THIS AGREEMENT. SPRINT DISCLAIMS ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. SPRINT ALSO MAKES NO WARRANTY THAT THE SERVICES WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE. YOU MAY NOT RELY ON STATEMENTS OF WARRANTY ABOUT SPRINT'S SERVICES; SUCH STATEMENTS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED BY SPRINT AND ARE NOT A WARRANTY BY SPRINT.

9.2. Exclusions. Sprint is not liable for claims or damages from:

A. your or your Authorized User's fault, negligence or failure to perform your responsibilities;

B. third party claims against you that arise out of your or your Authorized User's use of the Services;

C. claims for third party acts or omissions;

D. your or your Authorized User's acts or omissions;

E. the acts or omissions of any non-Sprint entity furnishing equipment, services or facilities for use with Services;

F. claims from a breach in the privacy or security of communications transmitted over Sprint's network, unless caused by some act or omission ~f Sprint;

G. claims due to fraudulent or unauthorized use of the Services provided to you, or unauthorized use of your telephone facilities to place calls on the Sprint network; or

H. a problem with the interconnection of Sprint's Services with the services or equipment of some other party.

10. YOUR LIABILITY You will indemnify, defend and hold Sprint harmless from all claims and demands by third parties for loss or damages arising out of the use of Services by you or your Authorized User, including but not limited to: claims of libel, slander, or the infringement of copyright; claims for the unauthorized use of any trademark, trade name, or service mark arising from the material transmitted over the Services; claims of infringement of patents arising from, combining with, or using in connection with, the Services, any apparatus and or systems furnished by you or your Authorized User; and all other claims arising out of any act or omission of you or your Authorized User in connection with the Services.

______________________________

William J. Woodward, Jr.
Terms and Conditions of Continuing Service with Sprint
January 10, 2002

1. General Application. The Terms and Conditions specified herein ("Woodward Form") supplement the "Sprint Terms and Conditions of Service" document ("Sprint Form") mailed to William J. Woodward, Jr. in December 2001. To the extent the Terms and Conditions herein are inconsistent with those in the Sprint Form, these Terms and Conditions control. By continuing to supply service, Sprint expressly agrees that the terms herein take precedence and agrees to these terms.

2. Dispute Resolution.

a. This paragraph is applicable to all disputes between William J. Woodward, Jr. and Sprint, regardless of the underlying issues and regardless of whether Sprint or Woodward is the complainant.

b. Sprint and Woodward agree that all claims of any kind may be adjudicated by a State or Federal court of law that otherwise has jurisdiction over the parties (including Small Claims Courts) or, alternatively, by arbitration agreed to by the parties after the time the dispute has arisen.

c. Sprint and Woodward agree that either may make claims against the other within the applicable Statute of Limitations with respect to such claims.

d. Sprint and Woodward agree that either Woodward or Sprint may join with other complainants in a dispute against the other, to the extent such joinder of claims or complainants is permitted by State or Federal law. Sprint and Woodward agree that this Agreement in no way limits the rights either party has to pursue their claims as otherwise permitted by law. Sprint hereby waives any objections it otherwise might have to the joinder or participation of its other customers in any legal proceedings commenced by Woodward, to the extent they are otherwise permitted by law to join in such proceedings.

e. Sprint and Woodward agree that a court or arbitrator may award any relief to the prevailing party that is otherwise permitted by law, including injunctive relief, consequential damages or punitive damages. This Agreement neither enlarges nor reduces Sprint's or Woodward's relief that would otherwise be permitted by law.

f. Sprint and Woodward agree that, notwithstanding Sprint's Paragraph 9.1, Sprint may be liable for all damages caused by its gross negligence.

______________________________

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Battle of the Forms | 15 comments (15 topical) | Post A Comment
"Statute of limitations"?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 06:54:13 PM PDT

As a non-lawyer, I am curious as to how long the customer has before sending in such a form.  If Sprint sent send me this ammended contract early this year (as Mr. Woodward's date implies), would it be applicable to send in a form now 11 months later?  Or would a court be likely to find that I had already assented to Sprint's proposed "contract" by continuing to do business after nearly one year?

I have been a Sprint customer for over three years and do not recall seeing such a stuffer, although Comcast did send me one in June 2004.  I was moving out of town at the time and cancelled my service with a note that I did not agree to be bound by arbitration.  I do not know if this had any effect on their plan or if their legal department ever received the notice.

This may be a key point, since most companies do not open their own mail, but instead have outsourced the bill payment.  Would this have any affect on the "battle of the forms"?

[ Reply to This ]



Statute of Limitations[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Bill Woodward on Tue Nov 09, 2004 at 02:44:26 PM PDT

All of what follows depends critically on the wording of the form(s) in question. But as a general matter, I can say the following. Whether there's a time lapse problem or not may depend on whether you have a term contract or simply an ongoing service contract (as you would with the electric company). In the latter case, where the customer can end the contract anytime and the contract therefore has no binding "future," most courts would probably view it as having continuing terms that can be changed either way for the future as time goes on. It's as if there were a "new" contract each day with whatever terms were in effect controlling that day's contract. Under this view, either of you could (theoretically) change the terms any time and (if "accepted" by continued service or payment) those terms would bind the future unless someone either changed them back or terminated the contract. I say "theoretically" because it is so unorthodox for a customer to be sending a business a form that it's anyone's guess how a court would respond to that scenario. In any event, if you take this view, there is no time lapse problem. With a term contract, it's probably more complicated. Can either party change the terms once the (say) 3 year cable TV contract forms? If not, then when the contract is perceived to form becomes controlling. In mobile phone service cases I'm familiar with, the vendor actually gets the vendee's signature on the form at the outset. The contract, of course, would probably form then or, at the latest, when the company did not reject the signed form (e.g., after checking the customer's credit). This, of course, makes it easier for the vendor to collect the penalty for early termination but it may, at the same time, make it more difficult for either party to change the terms mid-stream. Again, it depends partly on what the forms say. Given the way businesses distribute these forms in stuffers and (essentially) junk mail that customers are not likely to notice, much less read, sending the form back to a PO box, into an ATM machine, or to a place where a machine opens the mail may create a certain satisfying symmetry. As is the case when businesses send forms to consumers, the odds of the form binding both parties goes up if the sender has some belief that the recipient might actually receive and pay attention to the form.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:37:17 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Battle of the forms - a winner[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 09, 2004 at 03:00:58 AM PDT

It can be very easy to sign away your rights at the sweep of a pen, but you can also do things to protect them - but you may have to be a bit sneeky sometimes. I wanted to rent a house and on being presented the contract insisted on reading through the small print, much to the annoyance of the agent who wanted to move onto the next customer. Srangly enough, up to this point I had requested three times for a pro-froma copy of the agreement for me to review prior to signing and never got one. Made me suspicious. I found that the contract had a dispute procedure, for which all costs had to be borne by me no matter who stared the dispute procedure nor who won the dispute. Also, although following the dispute procedure prior to legal action was was binding, the result was non-binding. The final insult was that if there was legal action, I agreed to pay all the legal bills for all parties, again no matter who started the legal action and no matter who won the case. I regarded this as a complete licence for the company to do anything, including breaking any agreement they wished with impunity and to bankrupt me in the process. Some perople have said that 'they wouldn't do that'. My response was,if not why wasit in the contract?. So I signed the contract when the agent was distracted and crossed out this clause - and the agent didn't notice. At the end of the rental the renting company witheld my deposit for entierly spurious reasons. (I found out that they were very well known in the area for doing this to every tennant). I started the dispute procedure and at the first hearing, they tried to come on heavy by pointing out but not-quite-theatening-me-with all the costs of the dispute - until I pointed out the crossed out section in the contract. After a bit of sputtering about the crossing out not being legal, I just had to point out the alteration was done in their agents presence and had been 'accepted' for the duration of the rental and I got a cheque for my deposit. Was I on 'good' legal grounds? Who knows, but it gave me enough leverage for them not to bother arguing further.

[ Reply to This ]


It Pays to Read the Fine Print[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by In my humble opinion on Wed Aug 10, 2005 at 09:05:20 PM PDT

    Your experience is a good reminder to all to be informed prior to signing on the dotted line. Even when dealing with very trustworthy individuals/companies, circumstances can change in the future and you don't want to end up on the wrong end of the plank.

    Last year I considered an extended warranry on a new PC (emergency purchase, no time for a white box) but quickly dismissed the idea after a careful reading of the T&Cs of the agreement. I was amazed to see that they could refund the premium if (in their sole discretion) the repair was not cost effective. Yikes ! No point in that kind of insurance.



[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Well...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by dogbert on Wed Mar 08, 2006 at 02:18:42 PM PDT

At least you saved yourself by reading the fine print. I've been burned on more than one occasion even when I DID read the fine print. The print is just wayyyyy too fine for you to catch all the sneaky details. Yet, that is life.
Let there be love...Let there be complaints
[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:37:30 PM PDT

出会い出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニーエロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEアゲインで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Sprint Terms and Services[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 09, 2004 at 02:21:00 PM PDT

The terms and conditions are so onsided that something has to be done. While I was a Sprint customer, they kept charging me a late fee even though my check had been posted by my bank at least two days before the due date on all occasions. I followed their dispute resolution process and was always promised a refund but it never came. I cancelled as soon as my contract was up. The total was less than $100.00 but for such a small amount what can you do?

[ Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:35:43 PM PDT

出会い出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニーエロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEアゲインで決まり

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Silence means consent[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 10, 2004 at 08:34:19 AM PDT

There may be an old legal maxim that silence is not assent BUT the far more common legal maxim is "Silence means consent". If you don't believe me just google for both phrases (71 entries for the former to 832 for the latter). Sir Thomas More used this legal fact to shield himself from the law (he privately disagreed with the documents he refused to sign but by remaining silent the law HAD TO ASSUME that he agreed and could therefor not punish him for disagreeing).

I personally feel that the law should be changed so that ALL changes to contracts have to be acknowledged in writing and that this isn't something that can be waived in a contract (i.e. the language that says one party can unilaterally change the terms of the contract should be abolished).

[ Reply to This ]



how about a combination?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 10:39:30 AM PDT

let's take the DRM thread and the Sneakwrap thread and marry them: each provision of a sneakwrap insert or a DRM agreement must be individually agreed to by both parties. that encourages [and online can force] the customer to check an "accept" or "reject" box for each provision, and the contract isn't final until the vendor accepts or rejects the selections. if enough people reject enough parts, the vendors might get the idea and/or back down on the requirements. if they don't, caveat emptor, as it's always been... some of the DRM stuff, though, reminds me of the limits some media vendors are trying to put on Tivo and similar services. "what next?" includes making it impossible for me to not only burn copies of favorite shows, but maybe make it illegal or impossible for me TO SKIP COMMERCIALS. THEN what's next? Forcing me to sit through the commercials and making it illegal for me to push the MUTE button?!?!?!? this has got to stop somewhere, and stop SOON! +af

[ Reply to This ]


Link spam[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by sconeu on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 10:38:48 PM PDT

Ed, can you kill the link spam above?

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States of America.
[ Reply to This ]



lingering[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by rickman on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 10:06:38 PM PDT

FLV to WMA FLV to WAV FLV to MP3 MP3 to WMA MPEG to WMA AVI to WMA Quicktime to WMA 3GP to WMA AAC to MP3 RM to WMA MPEG to WMA MOV to WMA WMV to WMA MPG to WMA MP4 to WMA M4A to WMA WMA to AAC ipod to pc DVD to iPod WMV to iPod MPEG to iPod FLV to iPod AVI to Ipod Ipod to Ipod iPod to Mac transfer winxmedia avi mpeg ipod converter Transfer music from Ipod to PC Download K-Lite Codec Pack ipod to pc transfer copy dvd to iPod iPod copy iPod backup cucusoft ipod video converter cucusoft dvd to ipodconverter xilisoft ipod video converter xilisoft dvd to ipod converter imtoo iPod movie converter imtoo DVD to iPod converter PQ dvd to iPod FLV to iPod converter WMV to iPod converter MPEG to iPod converter AVI to iPod converter How to transfer songs from iPod to Mac DVD to iPod Macos x software m4v-converter M4V to MP4 Converter M4V to MPEG Converter M4V to AVI Converter M4V to WMV Converter M4V to MPG Converter Itunes M4V to Vob convert M4V to MP3 M4V TO WMA Converter FLV TO M4V Converter flv to mp3 AVI to FLV WMV to FLV MPEG/MP4/MPG to FLV ASF to FLV Divx to FLV FLV to Ipod FLV to PSP FLV to Zune FLV to 3GP

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wslaat[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by thegame on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:00:39 AM PDT

منتديات منتديات وصلات هي منتديات تهتم بالمتصفح العربي وتوفر له جميع ما يحتاجه من مواد مجانية افلام وكليبات منتديات الافلام و الكليبات المثيرة و الحصرية اي فلم او مقطع او كليب يوتيوب افلام و كليبات مضحكة منتدي الافلام و المقاطع و الكليبات المضحكة و الكوميدية funny videos movies افلام وكليبات رياضية منتدي الافلام و الكليبات و المقاطع الرياضية اهداف و لقائات و استعراضات رياضيه مرئية منتدي البرامج منتدي البرامج الهامة جديد البرامج شروحات البرامج برامج المواقع العالمية منتدي الالعاب منتدي جديد الالعاب العاب فلاش العاب كمبيوتر مواضيع متعلقه بالالعاب منتدي تطوير المواقع منتدي برامج لتطوير المواقع سكربتات تطوير اهم البرامج العالمية هاكات منتدي وصلات العام منتديات عامة نقاشات و حوارات جادة لقائات حصرية مشاكل وقضايا عربية مواضيع مميزة منتدي المواضيع المميزة مواضيع حصرية مواضيع و مشاركات هادفة منتدي التصميم منتدي التصميم و المصممين دروس جرافيكس فوتوشوب فلاش تصميم مواقع منتدي المرح منتدي التسلية و المرح مشاهد مضحكة صور مضحكة نكت و مقالات مضحكة منتدي القصص منتدي القصص و الحكايات روايات قصص مسموعة قصص طويلة قصص قصيرة جوالات منتدي جوالات موبايل برامج جوال ثيمات جوال العاب جوال كل ما يتعلق بالجوال ثيمات منتدي ثيمات جوال ثيمات موبايل ثيمات نوكيا ثيمز للجوال ثيمات سوني اريكسون برامج نوكيا منتدي برامج الجوال برامج موبايل برامج نوكيا برامج جوال سوني اريسكون نغمات موبايل نغمات صوتية نغمات جديدة منتدي النغمات نغمات جوال wav و mp3 و amr مسجات مسجات و رسائل جوال رسايل موبايل احدث المسجات مسجات حب مسجات الجوال منتديات رئيسية افلام كليبات رياضة صور العاب تحميل برامج كبيوتر انترنت فيديوهات منتديات عامة منتديات عامة دردشة مضحكة نكت مقالات صور تسلية مرح نقاش منتديات الجوالات برامج نوكيا سوني اريكسون جوال موبايل نغمات ثيمات جوالات موبايلات

[ Reply to This ]


yes[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by maderikapapa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:42:33 AM PDT

出会い出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニーエロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEアゲインで決まり

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