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Sneakwrap Files: McAfee Automatic Renewals

By Ed Foster, Section Columns
Posted on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 09:31:48 AM PDT
In these treacherous and security-conscious times, at least VirusScan subscribers can be certain McAfee will never leave them without protection. That's because 30 days before your subscription expires, they will already have charged another year's subscription to your credit card.


"McAfee has pulled a fast one over on me," a reader we'll call Mr. Evergreen recently wrote. In November of 2002 Mr. Evergreen had purchased a one-year subscription to VirusScan. "Since I switched to Norton, I haven't used McAfee in over nine months. Now I have received a billing e-mail from McAfee stating that they are automatically renewing my VirusScan subscription. I sent an e-mail asking why I was billed and for a refund. They replied that when I subscribed I 'had to agree to the End User License Agreement that gave us Authorization to Automatically Renew you.' They wouldn't offer me a refund but they did state that I could logon to my customer account and change my settings so I wouldn't get billed automatically again. This is nothing short of amazing!"

The e-mail response from McAfee included Paragraph 10 of the EULA Mr. Evergreen had "agreed" to the year before. "Your subscription to the Software will be automatically renewed thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of your subscription at the then-current price, excluding promotional and discount pricing," it read in part. Mr. Evergreen couldn't remember for certain how much he had paid for his original subscription, but he was certain it was considerably less than the $59.90 McAfee had now charged to his credit card.

Before contacting Networking Associates (just as with VeriSign and Network Solutions, I've given up trying to keep track of whether Network Associates and McAfee consider themselves one entity or two at any given moment), I decided I ought to see how much notice of the automatic renewal a customer would find now if they went to the McAfee website. Nowhere on the VirusScan product information page or the links I followed from it could I find mention of automatic renewal. Even the "Which option is right for me" box, which explained how getting a subscription instead of a retail version with a perpetual license would guarantee up-to-date protection, didn't bother to mention that the subscription would be renewed automatically.

I was finally presented with the EULA after I started going through the steps to download a subscription from the McAfee website, but apparently not the same EULA cited to Mr. Evergreen. Down near the bottom this EULA did say that "upon expiration of your subscription to the Software, the Company may automatically renew your subscription to the Software at the then prevailing price using credit card information you have previously provided." It didn't say the renewal would take place 30 days beforehand, and neither did a similar fine-print notice on the bottom of the credit card billing page.

In other words, right now only a very sharp-eyed customer is going to spot any reference to the renewal policy before purchasing a subscription, and even then you won't be aware that you have to tell McAfee 30 days before the expiration date to avoid being charged for another year. (McAfee officials subsequently pointed out some references to the policy on web pages that are accessed through the Support section or an established customer's account page, but prospective customers are unlikely to see those unless they search for "automatic renewals" or something similar.) What chance that someone frantically looking for a product that will help them deal with a virus attack is going to notice they've "agreed" to let McAfee renew their subscription indefinitely?

Tracy Hulver, director of product management for the McAfee Security Consumer Division, doesn't think the automatic renewal policy is unusual. "Auto-renewal is a widely accepted practice in many consumer-based services such as cable TV, ISP services, etc.," Hulver says. "McAfee Security utilizes an auto-renewal mechanism for consumers who purchase our subscription services as well, but customers can choose to purchase a perpetual license instead. Auto-renewal allows us to help ensure our customer's security services are continuously protecting their systems, and the renewal is processed 30 days in advance to prevent any lapse in service due to a problem with the credit card."

According to Hulver, customers are never renewed for a higher price than the current subscription price at the time of the renewal. "We do often run discounts or rebates, but we can't guarantee we'll have one at the time of renewal." And he also says that McAfee policy is that customers who object to being renewed are entitled to a refund, so Mr. Evergreen should have gotten his money when he complained. "If this gentleman didn't get his money back, that was an error," says Hulver.

By the time I got back to Mr. Evergreen with this news, his threats to contact the BBB, his state attorney general, and people like me had resulted in McAfee refunding his money. So why he was charged $60 for the renewal, when the current VirusScan subscription price is $34.95, will have to remain a mystery. I have to wonder how many others who are less feisty than Mr. Evergreen just accepted the statement that the automatic renewal provision in McAfee's EULA gave the company the right to keep the money. (In case you don't know it, in many states "evergreen" clauses like this are by law unenforceable even when in signed contracts, much less a sneakwrap license.) I also wonder how many people who think they're no longer McAfee customers don't realize they're getting billed annually, particularly those who assume e-mail with "McAfee" in the subject line is spam and who don't check their credit card statements carefully.

What about Hulver's contention that this is no different than the cable company or ISP automatically charging your credit card once a month? Well, there's no question that's the way a lot of software companies would like to operate. But you know you're authorizing your ISP or cable company to charge your card. If that's the way software companies are going to sell their products, they should at least have the decency not to try to hide the fact in their fine print.

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Post your comments about this column below or write me directly at Foster@gripe2ed.com. To receive this column every week in my free e-mail newsletter, please go to my subscription page and follow the instructions to opt-in for the EdFoster mailing list.

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Sneakwrap Files: McAfee Automatic Renewals | 33 comments (33 topical) | Post A Comment
I noticed the fine print when I signed up[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 10:42:18 AM PDT

I noticed the fine print when I signed up. I didn't want to have that happen without my consent, so I had my credit card company generate one of those one-time-use numbers with an expiration date in early 2004. So that ought to keep them from re-billing me without letting me know. We'll see...they'll probably use it as an excuse to raise the price. Does it really cost ~$30/PC/year to produce and sell virus software with a reasonable profit? They must make a killing.


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They must be making a Killing[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by glenn354 on Tue Jan 13, 2004 at 11:34:22 AM PDT

It is not what it costs them to produce antivirus updates to PCs, it is what are you willing to spend to have a current version.

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One solution[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 11:03:48 AM PDT

All of the credit cards I currently carry ofer some version of a one-time or single use number which is generated at the time of purchase for on-line transaction security. Not only does this mean I don't have to provide my "real" card number to be stored in a database on a far away server, it also means that subsequent transaction attempts using the "psuedo-number" will fail. I use these numbers for all on-line transactions including bill payments and also for transactions conducted by telephone. Check with your card company.

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I agree - virtual CC #'s work great[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jan 09, 2004 at 08:42:06 AM PDT

I too have started doing this with any type of online payment. There have just been too many cases where these "trusted" companies have abused their access to my CC account, and is another reason why I don't allow for any automatic deductions from our bank account. Using a virtual CC number is also a good practice in terms of one of these companies getting hacked and all of their customers' stored CC information being stolen. Note, most CC companies worth their salt will stand by you if you contest a charge like this - it is in their best interest to keep you, a source of interest revenue, happy.

Steve

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



Dirty dealings[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by bsweeney on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 11:26:30 AM PDT

I signed up for McAfee VirusScan online. I've generally been happy with the product as a normal consumer. Plus over the past few years they've added a few nice features. So I haven't really minded the auto-renewal feature, which I'm pretty sure I was aware of initially.

Of late I've had some issues that have had me thinking of switching to another virus scanner. One issue is that I'd like my scanner to include a command-line tool. The other is the horrendous "support" options provided by McAfee, such as waiting for on-line support for hours at a time.

So I've decided to switch. Unfortunately I didn't realize what a pain it would be to cancel the auto-renewal, which required me to contact McAfee customer service. There was no option via their web site account pages to cancel service. The first time I attempted to cancel I got no response at all. Boo to you McAfee.

It's distressing the manner with which software companies are eroding customer service and user rights to help their bottom line. Needless to say I'm seriously reconsidering some of the companies I give my business to. Product activation, bad/hostile customer service, buggy/insecure software ... I've had it! Sadly, with the way the software industry consolidates these days there's a good chance you'll be dealing with the same user-hostile attitute in no time as the smaller companies are bought up by bigger fish.

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Hulver's contention[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 12:02:26 PM PDT

Relative to: "What about Hulver's contention that this is no different than the cable company or ISP automatically charging your credit card once a month?" In my experience with all these different services (cable, telephone, ISP, newspaper, energy etc.), automatic payments are opt-in, not opt-out. And I have declined all their kind offers so I can use my Billpay service to automatically cover recurring payments. Now I control the timing, and you can bet it is not 30 days.

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Hulver's contention continued[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 12:20:09 PM PDT

On the automatic payment, McAffee is also way off base. First the power and phone company only bill me a month at a time and then only at a rate they have set with me in advance. Also they might want to consider that as an IT manager, I have been getting those sort of sneek renewals (30 to 90 days or auto-up for the original one to three year terms) either removed from our contracts or the business moved to someone who doesn't insist on it as I come up for renewal. Tracking those sorts of terms and dates is an additional burden consumers don't need. They are going the wrong way by adding them.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


More on Hulver's contention[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 07, 2004 at 02:23:58 PM PDT

While I generally don't have a problem with auto-renewal, the thing that really ticked me off was that McAfee failed to inform me beforehand of the AMOUNT that they were going to charge to my credit card. Would it really have been so difficult for them to send me an email a month prior to the charge date to let me know? Secondly, when I logged into my McAfee account to remove the auto-renewal feature (which could have been performed by a simple mouse click), I was informed that this was something that I could not do myself and that I would have to either call customer support or send them an email. This dumb-ass approach not only wastes my time but also that of their customer service reps!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Automatic credit card renewal solution[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by RichNRockville on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 12:42:32 PM PDT

I use my american express with the one time use option that is offered cardmembers. this way when they try to automatically charge the credit card it will be rejected. The number that amex gives you is a one time use special number. end of problem :)

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Actual paper renewel statements.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 01:18:53 PM PDT

Not only do most services ASK if you want to have automatic payment (land phone/cell phone, cable, electricity, gas, etc.) but they send ACTUAL PHYSICAL STATEMENTS through the U.S. MAIL. And, of course, we EXPECT renewels on phone/cable. That is not the case for software, so McAfee should be making a special effort to inform buyers, the complete opposite of what they are doing now. It should be opt-in, and there should be e-mail and paper mail notices giving the buyer a chance to cancel 30 days before they are charged the renewel fee. Also, why do you need automatic renewel in the first place? Why not just have the program ASK if you want to renew at the proper time? I absolutely will not buy another Mcafee product, both for this and other reasons. This practice SHOULD be illegal.

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McAfee[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 02:22:22 PM PDT

Here's my way of fighting back... Sent to investor relations of Costco -- Gentlemen: On several occasions I have noticed computer software products by McAfee Corporation being offered for sale by Costco. I believe the media story reproduced below amply describes the ethics of this company and the fact that they have no place in the Costco family of trusted brands worthy of sale to your members. Denying access to distribution can be one of the most powerful forces we can bring to bear on curbing this type of reprehensible and illegal corporate conduct. Costco has developed a strong identity amongst its members for offering excellent value and trusted brands. I would urge you to both remove their products and publicize the reasons therefor. Thanks for your consideration <sig/member #/contact info> <copy of story appended>

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Mr. Evergreen, can you say "chargeback"?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jan 10, 2004 at 10:20:48 AM PDT

If McAfee won't issue you a refund, call your credit card company and dispute the charge. A *reputable* company would have sent an e-mail to saying something like, "In a few days we're going to charge your card," to give you an opportunity to cancel. AFAICT from the article, McAfee charged your card and then said, "Oh, by the way..." Since click-thru EULAs have never been tested in court and found definitively legally binding, no matter what McAfee says this is an unauthorized charge and you should be able to get a refund with a minimum of hassle.

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Automatic renewal[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jan 10, 2004 at 06:41:07 PM PDT

My company was looking at buying an Enterprise Server license from RedHat by using a credit card. But their license agreement specifically stated that RedHat reserved the right to automatically bill the provided credit card for annual renewal license fees. So we decided to issue a PO instead. At least RedHat made the provision clearly available on their web site, before we had to provide a credit card number. And I thought the lack of security was what would keep me from using my own credit card on line. This ranks on the high end of the "reasons not to purchase on line" list.

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Automatic renewal[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jan 10, 2004 at 06:48:05 PM PDT

My company recently wanted an Enterprise Server license from RedHat. Their end user agreement also allowed them to automatically charge our credit card with an annual fee. We opted for a PO instead of using the credit card. At least RedHat made the terms available before we had to provide credit card info. I used to think that the lack of security was the main reason to avoid purchasing on line. This ranks right up there at the top of the list.

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Use Your Credit Card Company to Resolve Disputes[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 12, 2004 at 12:24:13 PM PDT

Until recently I ran an online site that took credit cards. Now that I'm out of that, I can reveal some secrets of how to deal with problems from online services like McAfee or even hardware sellers like Dell. The main weapon the consumer has, and it's the one most dreaded by merchants (especially online merchants), is the CHARGEBACK. You as the holder of the credit card have the right to put any charge into dispute. If you successfully dispute the charge, that results in a chargeback to the merchant whereby the credit card company takes back all money received by the merchant for the transaction, plus a penalty fee (often $20) assessed to the merchant. All merchants, even companies that have gone out of business, have reserve accounts set aside by their bank to cover the costs of chargebacks and fees. Not only that, when you file a dispute, the merchant's own bank may charge them a fee just to handle the dispute (called a 12B letter of inquiry). Finally, the credit card companies have maximum ratios of chargebacks for any merchant (usually 1% to 2.5% of sales), so if only 3% of consumers learn to complain quickly and often, merchants like McAfee will have to modify their policies. Even better for the consumer, if the merchant doesn't counter the customer's claim in a timely fashion, you win! And in some cases, the merchant will be required to supply its bank either with a credit card slip signed by you or proof of delivery of goods to your address. Needless to say, online purchases of services, or software that is downloaded, have no signed credit card slips. Even though the bank that issued your credit card will often tell you that you can only dispute your current bill within 30 days (sometimes they'll say 60 or 90 days), in fact banks often allow chargebacks as far back as 6 months, particularly in the case of online monthly billing, and occasionally even up to a year. Many banks won't let their merchants issue subscriptions for more than 90 days, and virtually none allow yearly rebilling like McAfee is doing, so it could be McAfee is in violation of either their merchant agreement and/or credit card company rules. However, giant merchants like McAfee and Dell probably have much sweeter bank agreements than smaller merchants, so their banks might be more tolerant. But it's the bank that issued your credit card that you're dealing with, not theirs. In fact, my best advice is to always use an American Express card for any purchase, online or off, because AmEx likes to keep their customers happy, and there is no intervening bank, you're dealing directly with AmEx. Furthermore, AmEx's agreements with some online merchants give no option to defend themselves, so if AmEx believes you, you've won. I can also tell you Visa is the last card I would use to purchase anything with. And if your bank gives you grief about filing a dispute, get a new card somewhere else--but insist on filing the dispute anyway. As part of your filing of a dispute, include newspaper stories, columns like Ed's, and links to the merchant's obscure terms as supporting evidence. If the merchant is difficult for you to reach about your charge, that's evidence of violation of credit card rules. And if you didn't authorize the charge or receive the goods (or can't honestly remember), say so. The merchant will have to prove otherwise.

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A few good ideas...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 13, 2004 at 07:57:43 AM PDT

I've never heard of the one-time use CC # before but I'll be cancelling cards from companies that don't offer that feature. Another option to the one-time-use CC #, especially if you don't have a credit card (or have one from a crappy provider), is to buy a credit card gift card in the amount of the purchase or for use with several such purposes--then throw it away. AmEx advertises it, and I've received a Visa gift card from Charter One. I think the fees are like $1.50 to get one, so it's definitely acceptable for that peace-of-mind.

Second, on the chargeback issue, rumor has it that AOL was approaching 5% chargebacks in 1995 and almost lost their ability to accept Visa, especially since people were using Visa debit cards to pay for their AOL memberships. Thus, AOL started looking into direct withdrawals from bank account numbers. FYI--NEVER give any organization a checking or savings account number, unless you have one specific for that purpose (i.e. a PayPal-only account). There are way fewer legal protections and banks don't like to get as involved under these circumstances.

Third, be forwarned that Match.com also likes to auto-renew, even for people who haven't used the service in months. However, in their defense, simple threats on their support pages forms do reverse the charges (however they won't contact you).

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Antivirus via Subscription[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by glenn354 on Tue Jan 13, 2004 at 11:53:26 AM PDT

Perhaps the antivirus software should be done by subscription. Instead of me purchasing the latest Antivirus sofware for $60 then subscribing to updates for $30 per year, they should design it so I pay $50 per year and get not just updates to the virus definitions, but the latest software. You would not have to worry whether you had McAfee 98 or 2000 or 2004, you just have a subscription to McAfee Antivirus. Much like Microsoft does, the software could determine what version to download based on your operating system. The company should gain revenue because it becomes a steady flow. Why would I purchase Norton AV for $60 when I get the latest and greatest McAfee for $50 anyway and don't have to install it. I think most PC users would rather not mess with the software, just pay to have it always the latest and greatest.

[ Reply to This ]


One caveat[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 15, 2004 at 09:28:23 AM PDT

While I agree that an annual fee to get all updates and virus definitions is the way to go; automatically having them install the latest update *could* break your system. This would be similar to MS automatically applying critical updates which have been showing to break other things once applied. Maybe if we had it downloaded to our machine, and if we install it and it breaks other programs, have the ability to roll back to the prior version (as long as the companies virus definitions support all versions of software)

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


McAfee Online[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 19, 2004 at 05:24:35 AM PDT

That is essentially the pricing model McAfee uses for its online virus scanner and firewall subscription services. If you want a reinstall CD, you must order one separately for an additional fee. However, that service also autorenews. Although, I remember reading that statement when I signed up I forgot exactly when I actually signed up (I was thinking sometime in February). Needless to say, I was also quite surprised when I received a notice indicating that my credit card had already been charged for my renewal. Last year they sent an email every two or three days telling me my subscription was about to expire starting more than a month before. Of course, they also still autonenewed my subscription last year even though I had switched to a different McAfee anti-virus product when I got a new PC. At that time, I did not have a problem getting my money refunded. I have stayed with McAfee because in the past I have had problems with Norton even running on my old PC. But McAfee's marketing policies are getting so out of hand, I am going to look for a different anti-virus/firewall vendor.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


I recommend Trend[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#19)
by beamdriver on Sun Jan 25, 2004 at 07:56:00 PM PDT

I've been happy with pc-cillin. I refuse to use any Symantec product, which stinks because they just bought out PowerQuest.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Latest & Greatest[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 26, 2004 at 06:38:08 PM PDT

I have never equated McAfee software with the term "latest & greatest". I had the on-line stuff at a medium sized lawfirm and with three months to go on the site license, every single user started getting popups requesting their credit card numbers for renewal. The results? Exit McAfee (we actually had a party when the last copy was removed), enter AVG.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#131)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]


They only get one chance to lose a customer[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous User on Fri Feb 27, 2004 at 03:05:44 PM PDT

I'm using the McAfee product on my work computer and was considering ordering it for my new home-built machine. However, thanks to this alert, McAfee won't ever see an order from me. Thanks for the review

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McAfee isn't the only one[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 28, 2004 at 09:38:29 AM PDT

Back in 96/97 I had AOL on one of my PCs. I moved to a rural area and continued to use AOL as the local ISP didn't advertise much. Finally I terminated my AOL (sent a "I am terminating my account" email notification to AOL as required) when I found a local ISP as back then all of the available AOL connections were long distance connections with long distance charges on the phone bill. I was also getting real tired of unexpectedly hearing "goodbye" at inappropriate times. Two months later I noticed AOL was still showing up on the credit card bill. I complained to the credit card company and was supplied with the AOL customer service number. Called them and received assurance the bill was stopped and the credit card company would be advised of a billing area. They lied. Next months credit card bill had another AOL charge. I did the same cycle one more time, then when the charge showed up on the bill again I reported a fraud on the credit card and got a new one with a different number. That stopped it. There is no question one-time use credit cards are the best thing to use with all planned purchases, especially those that are internet related.

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AOL & credit cards[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#23)
by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 29, 2004 at 09:03:09 PM PDT

I work for a credit card and AOL is notorious charging accounts months and one card a year after the person canceled. Of course, it helps to really read your credit card statement, not just the payment amount. If is was a choice between not having Internet and AOL, I wouldn't have Internet.

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Evergreen[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#36)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 12:57:17 PM PDT

If you use the one-time number they will send you to collections to get your money for not filling your end of the contract. Happened to me just recently. I let an account expire with a credit card and they sent it to collections because I wouldnt pay on a subscription I neither wanted or used. I never even knew I was obligated to pay it!

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this is what mcafee writes to me[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#124)
by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 10:10:25 PM PDT

Dear Ryan Sawall, Thank you for contacting McAfee Customer Service. I understand that you want a refund for your subscription/license. As per our terms and conditions, we guarantee that McAfee Customer Services subscriptions will make your computer more secure. If for any reason you are not completely satisfied, we offer a full refund within 60 days of automatic renewal. However, you are now outside that 60-day time frame. It is also our policy that we do not provide partial refunds. I do understand your frustrations and I apologize for the inconvenience however; I am bound by strict limitations, policies and support boundaries. As much as I would like to provide you with a refund, our system simply does not allow refunds to be processed beyond the 60-day refund timeframe. Ryan, may I take this opportunity to thank you for letting us know your concern and we will be looking forward to be of further service to you. Please reply to this email including the previous correspondence. Your reference number for this incident is 24293109. Sincerely, Janeth R. McAfee CS-Tier 1 Safe online? Avoid dangerous web sites using McAfee SiteAdvisor? ? a FREE download from http://www.siteadvisor.com?cid=27092 Don?t search or surf without it!

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There's till an endless loop of of bad links...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#125)
by Anonymous User on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 09:36:37 AM PDT

...and no help. McAfee has purposely designed their web site to thwart cancellations. I am outraged. Many "help" links simply lead back to the homepage instead of the topics lists and there appears to be no possible method for either cancellation of the auto renewal OR the refund for that auto renewal as promised in the auto renewal email message. I will never, ever place another order, business or personal for any product from this company.

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McAfee woes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#126)
by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 03:52:02 PM PDT

I have switched to Bitdefender because of these very issues related above and because of an inability to receive customer support (e mails unanswered, live chat off line). A reputable company should make all charges easy for the customer to understand and the web site of a reputable company should be easy for the customer to use. There is no reason to settle for less.

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ergh[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#128)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 01:03:32 AM PDT

I purchased QB2003 Pro with a $120 upgrade rebate. After not receiving it, I called the toll-free number. It had been disconnected. I called Intuit. They said someone would call. A week later, someone did call and asked me to fax the copies I had kept to him. He promised a return call when they received it. Another two weeks went by with no call, so I faxed them again. And again a week later.guild wars gold gw gold Maple Story Mesos Maple Mesos cheap guild wars gold guild wars money buy guild wars gold gw money cheap guild wars money cheap gw money MapleStory Mesos Maple Story Meso buy Maple Story Mesos cheap Maple Story Mesos buy Maple Meso cheap MapleStory Mesos cheap Maple Story Meso No response, but I finally got my $120. This wasn't some $3 rebate off a stack of CDs. It was for me upgrading and being a loyal customer. Well, if I can't get the rebate, Peachtree looks comparable.

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silent killer[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#129)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 01:08:54 AM PDT

لعبة طهي لعبة طهي لعبة طهي جميله لعبة طهي جميله لعبة نينجا صعبة لعبه نينجا صعبه لعبة فريق القرود لعبة فريق القرود لعبة القبض علي فريق القرود لعبة القبض علي فريق القرود لعبة فريق القرود الشرير لعبة فريق القرود الشرير لعبة بولينج لعبة بولينج لعبة بولينج مثيره لعبة بولينج مثيره لعبة بولينج ممتعه لعبة بولينج ممتعه لعبة بيانو جميله لعبة بيانو جميله لعبة موسيقي بيانو لعبة موسيقي بيانو لعبة بيانو لعبة بيانو لعبة مهارات بيكهام لعبة مهارات بيكهام لعبة مهارات اللاعب بيكهام لعبة مهارات اللاعب بيكهام لعبة اختبار مهارات بيكهام لعبة اختبار مهارات بيكهام لعبة تصادم دراجات لعبة تصادم دراجات لعبة سباق دراجات لعبة سباق دراجات لعبة دراجات لعبة دراجات لعبة وزنك ذهب/a> لعبة وزنك ذهب لعبة ثعبان لعبة ثعبان لعبة ثعبان مثيره لعبة ثعبان مثيره لعبة تصادم ثعبان لعبة تصادم ثعبان لعبة عرائس قاتله لعبة عرائس قاتله لعبة اكسسوارات عرائس لعبة اكسسوارات عرائس لعبة جاتا لعبة جاتا لعبة سودكو لعبة سودكو لعبة انقاذ قطط لعبة انقاذ قطط لعبة قطط لعبة قطط لعبة توصيل قطط لعبة توصيل قطط لعبة قفز قطط لعبة قفز قطط لعبة قطه في المنزل لعبة قطه في المنزل لعبة هنديه لعبة هنديه لعبة طائره هنديه لعبة طائره هنديه لعبة احتفالات هنديه لعبة احتفالات هنديه لعبة جن مثيره لعبة جن مثيره لعبه جن لعبه جن لعبة سباق عربيات لعبة سباق عربيات لعبة جن محارب لعبة جن محارب لعبة بابا نويل لعبة بابا نويل لعبة بابا لعبة بابا لعبة بابا نويل والثعالب لعبة بابا نويل والثعالب لعبة بابا نويل والهدايا لعبة بابا نويل والهدايا لعبة عربيات لعبة عربيات لعبة ماما لعبة ماما لعبة ماما جميله لعبة ماما جميله لعبة دودو لعبة دودو لعبة تصادم عربيات لعبة تصادم عربيات لعبة دودو يحارب الآشباح لعبة دودو يحارب الآشباح لعبة دودو صياد الطيور لعبة دودو صياد الطيور لعبة زراعة لعبة زراعة

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yes[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#130)
by maderikapapa on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:35:42 PM PDT

出会い出会い系サイト出会い喫茶出会い掲示板ナンパ出会いカフェ人妻出会い無 009;系サイト優良出会い系攻略 完全無料。アダルトビデオアダルト動画アダルトアニメアダルト画像アダル 488;サイト無料DVDアダルト風俗サンプル無料風俗優良アダルトサイト比較海 806;。人妻画像人妻パラダイス知合い人妻援護会人妻コレクション風 439;告白。熟女画像東京熟女掲示板動画熟女ビデオおまんこオナニーエロ画像エロフラッシュアニメ 456;ロ動画エロゲームエロ漫画無料エロサイト。エッチ画像エッチ動画エッチ小説写真エッチ 450;ニメエッチ0930。セックスアナルセックス画像セックス動画セックスフレンドスワッピングSEX写真セックスボランティセ 483;クス体位東京セックス仕方 SEX。おっぱい画像おっぱい村長おっぱい楽園掲示板お 387;ぱい命おっぱいゲーム。巨乳動画巨乳画像アイドル巨乳 522;示板風俗。セフレ募集セフレ掲示板セフレ画像掲示板セフレの作り方出会い無料素人セフレ。童貞狩りエロ漫画童貞狩り童貞喪失童貞オークション素人童貞逆援不倫パートナー不倫出会い人妻不倫不倫を楽しみたい方にはお薦め 154;妻画像など満載出会いサイトを楽しむならココ無料出会いで一緒に遊ぼう出会いはLOVEアゲインで決まり

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dsafd[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#132)
by samezhen on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:03:00 AM PDT

<H1>eve iskeve iskcar wash systemscar wash systemscar wash equipmentcar wash equipmentautomatic car washautomatic car washcar washing machinecar washing machinecar washcar wash±±¾©Æû³µ×âÁÞÍøÂçµØ°å·À¾²µçµØ°å°×ñ°·çðåÕîÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîëˢ¹¤ÒµÃ«Ë¢¡¡Ã«Ë¢³§ÇåϴëˢÎÞ»ú¸Ö½îê¹ÌÁÏê¹ÌÁÏÈÚ´ï±±¾©ÈÚ´ï±±¾©ÈÚ´ï½¨ÒµÉøÍ¸ÐÔ¾ÛºÏÎïɰ½¬¾ÛºÏÎïɰ½¬¸ßÇ¿ÉøÍ¸ÐÔ¾ÛºÏÎïɰ½¬¹à½¬ÁϹཬ±±¾©¹à½¬Áϲ»Ðâ¸Ö¸Ö½ÊÏßÕ³¸Ö½ºÖ²½î½º½á¹¹½º¹à½¬¼Á¸ßÇ¿ÎÞÊÕËõ¹à½¬ÁϽ¨Öþ½á¹¹½ºË®Äà¹à½¬¼Á¼Ó¹ÌÁÏ̼ÏËά½ºÌ¼ÏËά½º¹à×¢Õ³¸Ö½ºÊ÷Ö¬¹à·ì½º°ìÖ¤»·ÑõµØÆº»·Ñõ×ÔÁ÷ƽÅÁ½ðÉ­°ì֤Ѫ¹ÜÁöÍ­ÃÅ»õ¼Ü»õ¼Ü³§¸ÎѪ¹ÜÁö ðåÕîðåÕ¶¾ðಡ¶¾ðàÊý¿Ø»ðÑæÇиî»úÊý¿ØµÈÀë×ÓÇиî»úµçº¸»úº¸»úÖ¸ÎÆËøÖ¸ÎÆËøÖܽ籨¾¯ÑÀ¿ÆÑÀ³ÝÃÀ°×ÑÀÖܲ¡ÑÀ³ÝÖÖÖ²±±¾©¿ÚǻҽԺ¿Ú³ô²¹ÑÀÑÀÌÛÑÀ³ÝÃÀÈÝÑÀö¸³öѪ¿¾´ÉÑÀÑÀ³Ý½ÃÕýÖÖÖ²ÑÀ³Ý¿ÆÆ·ÅÆ·þ×°·þ×°¼ÓÃË·þ×°´úÀí·þ×°¾­ÏúÆ·ÅÆÄÐ×°Æ·ÅÆÅ®×°ÄÐ×°¼ÓÃËÅ®×°¼ÓÃË·þ×°³§±±¾©·þ×°×âÁÞÆ·ÅÆ·þ×°·þ×°¼ÓÃË·þ×°´úÀí·þ×°¾­ÏúÆ·ÅÆÅ®×°Æ·ÅÆ·þ×°·þ×°´úÀíÄÐ×°¼ÓÃË·þ×°¾­Ïú Æ·ÅÆÄÐ×°Æ·ÅÆÅ®×°ÄÐ×°¼ÓÃËÅ®×°¼ÓÃË·þ×°³§viÆóÒµÐÎÏóÉè¼Æ±±¾©Éè¼Æ¹«Ë¾Õ¹ÀÀչʾÉè¼Æ±êÖ¾Éè¼Æ»Æ½ð¿ó¹¤Ð¡ÓÎÏ·»Æ½ð¿ó¹¤Ð¡ÓÎÏ·ÃÀÅ®²ÍÌüСÓÎÏ·ÃÀÅ®²ÍÌüСÓÎÏ·È­»ÊСÓÎÏ·È­»ÊСÓÎÏ·Èý¹úÂ齫СÓÎÏ··çË®ÆðÃûeve iskÆû³µÓ°ÒôÆû³µ¸Ä×°ÌùĤÆû³µ×°ÊÎÆû³µ±£ÑøÆû³µÅä¼þÆû³µÎ¬ÐÞÆû³µÃÀÈÝÆû³µ×øµæë¯ÆøµÆÆûGPSµ¼º½·ÀµÁÆ÷³µÔØmp3Èó»¬ÓÍÆû³µÒôÏìÂÖÌ¥Ðîµç³ØÆû³µÓÃÆ·¼âÈñʪðà¼âÈñʪðàÖÎÁÆÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîÖÎÁÆðåÕîÖÎÁÆðåÕîµÄÖÎÁÆðåÕîͼƬ²¡¶¾ÐÔðåÕîµ¥´¿ðåÕîðåÕ¶¾ðåÕîÖ¢×´ÄÐÐÔÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîÖ¢×´ÄÐÐÔÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîʲôÊÇÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîµÄÖÎÁÆÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîÔõôÖÎÁÆÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîÈçºÎÖÎÁÆÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîÖÎÁÆ·½·¨ÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîÔõôÖÎÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîµÄÖÎÁÆÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîµÄÖÎÁÆÖÐÒ©ÖÎÁÆÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕ·¢ÐÔÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîÖÎÁÆÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîµÄÒ©ÎïÖÎÁÆÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîµÄÌØÐ§Ò©ÉúÖ³Æ÷ðåÕîÖÎÁƼâÈñʪðà֢״ʲôÊǼâÈñʪð๬¾±¼âÈñʪðàÒõµÀ¼âÈñʪðàÄÐÐÔ¼âÈñʪðà¼ÙÐÔ¼âÈñʪðà¼âÈñʪðàÔõôÖÎÁƼâÈñʪðàÖÎÁÆ·½·¨¼âÈñʪðàµÄÖÎÁÆÖÐÒ©ÖÎÁƼâÈñʪðàÖÎÁƼâÈñʪðàµÄÒ©ÎïÖÎÁƼâÈñʪðàµÄÌØÐ§Ò©ÄÐÐÔ¼âÈñʪðà¼âÈñʪðิ·¢¼âÈñʪðàͼƬͭÃÅд×Ö¥Ѳչд×Ö¥Ѳչ</H1> ÒõµÀÑ× ÒõµÀÑ×ÖÎÁÆ µÎ³æÐÔÒõµÀÑ× Ï¸¾úÐÔÒõµÀÑ× Ã¹¾úÐÔÒõµÀÑ× Ô¾­²»µ÷ Í´¾­ Ô¾­²»µ÷µÄÖÎÁÆ Í´¾­µÄÖÎÁÆ ²úǰ¼ì²é Ôмì Å®ÐÔÌå¼ì Å®ÐÔ¼ì²é Ìå¼ìÌ×²Í ÈËÁ÷ ÎÞÍ´ÈËÁ÷·ÑÓà ÎÞÍ´ÈËÁ÷ÓÅ»Ý ÎÞÍ´ÈËÁ÷Ì×²Í ÈËÁ÷·ÑÓà ÈËÁ÷ÓÅ»Ý ÈËÁ÷Ì×²Í ÈËÁ÷Ò½Ôº ÎÞÍ´ÈËÁ÷Ò½Ôº ±±¾©ÈËÁ÷Ò½Ôº ±±¾©ÈËÁ÷¼Û¸ñ ´¦Å®Ä¤ÐÞ¸´Ò½Ôº ±±¾©´¦Å®Ä¤ÐÞ¸´Ò½Ôº ±±¾©´¦Å®Ä¤ÐÞ¸´ ¸¾¿Æ¼²²¡ ³£¼û¸¾¿Æ²¡ Å®ÐÔ³£¼û¸¾¿Æ²¡ Å®ÐÔ¸¾¿Æ²¡ Ôи¾¸¾¿Æ²¡ ¸¾¿Æ²¡ÖÖÀà ÀÏÄ긾¿Æ²¡ Å®È˸¾¿Æ²¡ ÉÙÅ®¸¾¿Æ²¡ ¸¾¿Æ²¡µÄ±íÏÖ ¶ùͯ¸¾¿Æ²¡ ¸¾Å®¸¾¿Æ²¡ ²úºó¸¾¿Æ²¡ ÑÏÖØ¸¾¿Æ²¡ Ôи¾¸¾¿Æ²¡ Å®ÐÔ¸¾¿Æ¼²²¡ ³£¼û¸¾¿Æ¼²²¡ ÍâÒõ°×°ß²¡ ×Ó¹¬¾±ÃÓÀÃ ÖØ¶È¹¬¾±ÃÓÀà Çá¶È¹¬¾±ÃÓÀà Öжȹ¬¾±ÃÓÀà ¹¬¾±ÃÓÀöþ¶È ÂýÐÔ¹¬¾±ÃÓÀà ·ÇÁܾúÐÔÄòµÀÑ× ·ÇÁÜÐÔÄòµÀÑ× Å®ÐÔÄòµÀÑ× Ã¹¾úÐÔÄòµÀÑ× ÂýÐÔÅèÇ»Ñ× ¼±ÐÔ¹¬¾±Ñ× ÂýÐÔ×Ó¹¬¾±Ñ× Å®ÐÔ¸½¼þÑ× ¼±ÐÔ¸½¼þÑ× ×Ó¹¬ÄÚĤÑ× ÂýÐÔ×Ó¹¬ÄÚĤÑ× ×Ó¹¬ÄÚĤÑ×Ö¢ ×Ó¹¬Ï´¹ Âѳ²ÔçË¥ ¸¾¿ÆÖ¢×´ ¸¾¿Æ²¡Ö¢×´ ³£¼û¸¾¿Æ²¡Ö¢×´ ¸¾¿Æ²¡¼°ÆäÖ¢×´ ¸¾¿Æ¼²²¡Ö¢×´ ¸¾¿Æ²¡Ñ×Ö¢ ¸¾¿ÆÑ×Ö¢Ö¢×´ Å®ÐÔ¸¾¿ÆÑ×Ö¢ ³£¼û¸¾¿ÆÑ×Ö¢ ×Ó¹¬Ñ×Ö¢Ö¢×´ ÊäÂѹÜÑ×Ö¢Ö¢×´ ¸½¼þÑ×Ö¢×´ ×Ó¹¬¸½¼þÑ×Ö¢×´ Âѳ²ÄÒÖ×Ö¢×´ ÍâÒõ°×°ßÖ¢×´ ¹¬¾±ÃÓÀÃÖ¢×´ ×Ó¹¬¼¡ÁöÖ¢×´ ×Ó¹¬¾±°©Ö¢×´ ¹¬¾±ÃÓÀóöѪ ·ÇÁܾúÐÔÄòµÀÑ×Ö¢×´ ÄòµÀÑ×Ö¢×´ ÅèÇ»Ñ×Ö¢×´ ¹¬¾±Ñ×Ö¢×´ °×´øÒì³£Ö¢×´ ÔÐÆÚ°×´øÒì³£ °×´ø¶à °×´ø´øÑª °×´ø·¢»Æ °×´øÓÐѪ °×´øÒìζ Ë®Ñù°×´ø °×´ø»ÆÂÌÉ« °×´ø¶¹¸¯Ôü Ô¾­²»µ÷Ö¢×´ ¸½¼þÑ×Ö¢×´ Ôи¾°×´øÒì³£ Å®ÐÔ°×´øÒì³£ Å®ÐÔÔ¾­²»µ÷ ÉÙŮԾ­²»µ÷ ¸üÄêÆÚÔ¾­²»µ÷ ÍâÒõ°×°ß ÍâÒõɦÑ÷ ÍâÒõºìÖ× ÍâÒõðþÑ÷ ¹¬ÍâÔÐÖ¢×´ ¹¬ÍâÔÐÔçÆÚÖ¢×´ ÈéÏÙÔöÉúÖ¢×´ ×Ó¹¬ÄÚĤÑ×Ö¢×´ ×Ó¹¬ÄÚĤÒìλ ×Ó¹¬°©Ö¢×´ ×Ó¹¬°©ÔçÆÚÖ¢×´ ÉúÖ³ÕûÐÎ ´¦Å®Ä¤ÐÞ²¹ ´¦Å®Ä¤ÐÞ¸´ÊÖÊõ ´¦Å®Ä¤ÐÞ²¹ÊÖÊõ ÒõµÀ½ôËõ ÒõµÀ½ôËõÊõ ÒõµÀËÉ³Ú ´¦Å®Ä¤ÔÙÔì ¸¾¿ÆÕûÐÎ ÉúÖ³Æ÷ÕûÐÎ ¸¾¿ÆÕûÐÎÊÖÊõ ÉúÖ³Æ÷ÕûÐÎÊÖÊõ Å®ÐÔÉúÖ³Æ÷ÕûÐÎ Å®ÐÔÉúÖ³ÕûÐÎ Òõ´½ÕûÐÎÊõ СÒõ´½ÕûÐΠСÒõ´½ÕûÐÎÊÖÊõ ¸¾¿ÆÊÖÊõ ¸¾¿ÆÊÖÊõ ¸¾¿Æ¸¹Ç»¾µÊÖÊõ ¸¾¿ÆÊÖÊõ»¤Àí ×Ó¹¬¼¡Áö΢´´ÊÖÊõ ¹¬¾±ÃÓÀÃÊÖÊõ ¶à·¢ÐÔ×Ó¹¬¼¡ÁöÊÖÊõ ×Ó¹¬¼¡ÁöÊÖÊõ Âѳ²ÄÒÖ×ÊÖÊõ ¹¬ÍâÔÐÊÖÊõ ÈËÁ÷ÊÖÊõ ÎÞÍ´ÈËÁ÷ÊÖÊõ ¿ÉÊÓÈËÁ÷ÊÖÊõ È˹¤Á÷²úÊÖÊõ ÈéÏÙÔöÉúÊÖÊõ ÈéÏÙ΢´´ÊÖÊõ ÊäÂѹÜ΢´´ÊÖÊõ Ç幬ÊÖÊõ Òý²úÊÖÊõ Á÷²úÊÖÊõ ¹¬Ç»¾µÊÖÊõ ¹¬Ç»¾µÈ¡ÅßÊõ ¹Î¹¬ÊÖÊõ Å®ÐÔ½ÚÓýÊÖÊõ ×Ó¹¬°©ÊÖÊõ ×Ó¹¬Çгý ×Ó¹¬¼¡ÁöÇгý ¹¬¾±¼²²¡ ÒõµÀÑ× ÅèÇ»Ñ× Âѳ²¼²²¡ Í´¾­ ×Ó¹¬¼¡Áö Ô¾­²»µ÷ ÈéÏÙ¼²²¡ ¹¬ÍâÔÐ ´¦Å®Ä¤ÐÞ¸´ ½ÚÓý»··ÅÖà ²»Ôв»Óý ±ÜÔÐ ¹¬¾±ÃÓÀà ½¡¿µÖªÊ¶ ÄÐÐÔ¼²²¡ Å®ÐÔ¼²²¡ ²»Ôв»Óý

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