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Ticketmaster's Privacy Policy: Opting Out is Not an Option

By Ed Foster, Section Columns
Posted on Thu Jul 24, 2003 at 08:44:35 AM PDT

While privacy policies rarely put many restraints on the vendor's right to share your information with others, you can usually opt out from having your info shared too widely. One reader recently spotted an exception to this; one that means my contact information and yours may be in greater circulation than we knew.

The reader had become annoyed with the amount of promotional e-mails he'd been getting from Ticketmaster ever since he'd purchased concert tickets at ticketmaster.com. In the process of opting out of their e-mail "newsletter," the reader examined Ticketmaster's privacy policy and was struck by this section:

"By purchasing a ticket, or completing a registration form so that you are able to access a purchase page for a ticket, to a concert, game or other event on the Site, you consent (i.e., you opt-in) to us sharing your personal information with the venues, promoters, artists, teams, leagues and other third parties associated with that concert, game or other event ("Event Partners"). We cannot offer you a separate opportunity to opt-out, or not to consent, to our sharing of your personal information with them. Event Partners may use your personal information in accordance with their own privacy policies, and may consequently use your personal information to contact you and may share your personal information with others. You will need to contact those Event Partners who contact you to instruct them directly regarding your preferences for the use of your personal information by them."

In other words, Ticketmaster's "Event Partners" get a nice little dossier on each customer including name, street address, email address and telephone number. (Credit card numbers are only shared with Event Partners in special circumstances, the Ticketmaster privacy policy says.) And customers has no way of knowing which of these partners are getting this information, or stopping them from passing it on to others. "That's what is particularly odious about this, since they themselves say it could be venues, promoters, bands, etc...a potentially huge list of organizations."

This reader did a good job of sounding the alarm in as many quarters as possible, so Ticketmaster had a prepared statement ready when I contacted them. Ticketmaster's partners "have both the desire and the need to receive information about the consumers who purchase tickets for their entertainment offerings," read the statement, which was attributed to Kerry Samovar, Ticketmaster's chief privacy officer. "Therefore Ticketmaster has a very clear privacy policy that covers the sharing of that information. Our clients, for whom we sell tickets, use the information to help fulfill the ticket orders and may use it to contact the consumer. Please remember that we are the legal 'agent' of these parties; we are selling tickets on their behalf. They are completely separate companies, and how they use the information is based on their respective policies... For those consumers that wish to remain as anonymous as possible, in an increasingly less anonymous world, we recommend that they buy their tickets through more traditional means, such as venue box offices or Ticketmaster's more than 3,500 retail ticket centers."

As I read that statement, I couldn't help but think about some of the times I've purchased tickets through Ticketmaster, and some of the "Event Partners" who may therefore know a lot about me. After all, event promoters in sports and entertainment aren't always the most trustworthy of folks. And I believe some of the artists I bought tickets for my son to see are in jail now - do you suppose they're trading my contact information with their cellmates for cigarettes? Under Ticketmaster's privacy policy, they would certainly have the right to do so.

Am I exaggerating the dangers in this? Perhaps, but with identify theft now one of the most common of crimes, I really don't want to take the chance. But I, like the reader, don't know for sure which Ticketmaster partners -- or partners of Ticketmaster partners -- now have my information, and I have no way of stopping them from selling it to others.

Ticketmaster says they're just functioning as an "agent" for those clients who have "the desire and the need" to collect all this information about us. It's an odd kind of agent relationship though, since we only get to know the agent's privacy policies and we can't even be sure who and how many clients are getting this open-ended access to our information.

We are indeed living in an increasingly less anonymous world, and I think we can give Ticketmaster some of the credit for that. So the next time you need a ticket, you might indeed want to go visit the box office. At least that way you'll know for sure what price you're paying.

---------------------------

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Ticketmaster's Privacy Policy: Opting Out is Not an Option | 60 comments (60 topical) | Post A Comment

Ticketmaster[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by drcmg on Thu Jul 24, 2003 at 10:08:30 AM PDT

What really makes this so called privacy policy big trouble is that the policy does not even restrict the "Event Partner" who receives the information to the one that has a connection to the event for which you purchased tickets. I could purchase a ticket for the NCAA Final Four and have my info given not only to the NCAA and any other organization related to that event, but there is nothing in the policy to prevent Ticketmaster from sending that same info to any other "Event Partner" who wants it. Partners for rock concerts, monster truck rallies, beauty pagents, hockey teams, etc. could receive my info and flood my already overloaded email box with spam about other things in which I have no interest. And as you stated we can't find out who the info was shared with, nor what their privacy policy, if any, might be. Pretty soon some rather unsavory organizations could have my name, address, telephone number and possibly other information about me.

Fortunately I have never bought ticket through Ticketmaster online. But because of this article I now wonder what their policy is for tickets purchased by phone.

[ Reply to This ]

cash[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#75)
by Anonymous User on Mon May 05, 2008 at 09:05:44 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

anonymous through traditional means?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 24, 2003 at 10:22:42 AM PDT

In reading this, I have to wonder why it is so important for the partners to get the personal information from online ticket buyers, but not necessarily from those that purchase tickets "through more tradtional means". It would seem that to sell a ticket the same information should be required, whether the sale is made online or through "Ticketmaster's more than 3,500 retail ticket centers". Why is the online world treated differently? Just because they can? Bah!

[ Reply to This ]

Just bought through ticketmaster[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by straytjakket on Thu Jul 24, 2003 at 10:30:20 AM PDT

I wish I had read this gripeline 2 days ago. I just purchased tickets through ticketmaster and I would not have done so if I'd known this ahead of time. Fortunately, I gave an email address that I only use for this sort of thing, but I had to give my home address also. What really burns me is that they charged me $8.50 per ticket to order online and then they charged me an additional $1.50 to allow me to print my tickets out on my printer. Amazon.com makes money by selling itmes online at a reduced cost while ticketmaster makes money by selling tickets online at a greatly increased cost! Something is really backwards here..... I bought 4 tickets, so they made about $35.00 off of my purchase, and then they sold my information for more profit!!!!

[ Reply to This ]

Ticketmaster as an "Agent"...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 24, 2003 at 10:36:23 AM PDT

It would seem to me that if Ticketmaster is acting as an "agent" for another organization they should be responsible for sharing the Privacy Policy of the organization(s) they are representing. How does acting as an agent for someone else wash your hands of responsibility?

[ Reply to This ]

The only game in town[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 24, 2003 at 11:04:41 AM PDT

One other point which may be obvious, but must be stated is the lack of choice in the matter. With Tickemaster's oligopoly power, there is little alternative than to deal with them. They have clearly abused their power before -- by setting high service fees -- and they continue to abuse their power, dictating what you will provide them during the course of a transaction. What's next?

[ Reply to This ]

Oh the pain.[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by dev on Thu Jul 24, 2003 at 11:41:51 AM PDT

I have only bought a single ticket from ticketmaster, many years ago. Since that purchase, I have received tons of 'targeted' email personalized with my full name, the city, etc. I have not lived there for some time, and it's painfully obvious when I get concert or event updates for my former city's venues. But, those aren't the only partners. Sponsors of the events have the right, and probably get your personal data. I now receive personalized email for services (mainly mortgage, loans, etc) for large institutions with facilities in this city. I never wanted to purchase the ticket in the first place, but it was designated as the only option for that venue. I, like most people, just sat back and ignored the barrage of privacy invasion. This article woke me up. I'm glad someone is standing up. I hope more do as well. Calling to complain is like calling the cable or phone company. They don't care, because it's a monopoly, and the complaint does not go anywhere. I am not a seasoned activist. Could someone post information on where/how we can help make some noise that is heard? For now, I do everything I can to avoid ticket purchases from ticketmasher (and have been successful). You usually get better seats buying directly anyway.

[ Reply to This ]

Are they ever used?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 24, 2003 at 11:49:12 AM PDT

I dislike the policy as much as anyone. But I bought tickets from them for a baseball game last year (the WORST e-commerce site I ever used, by the way, plus atrocious fees) and have never gotten any spam for similar events since. (One regular mail communication from the team is all.) I think whoever wrote that policy still has that mid-90s fantasy that somehow e-mail demographics would allow amazingly successful marketing. Truth is most of us know what is available out there and buy what we want. It's not like shopping was all that hard in pre-internet America! In this case (fortunately) the reality seems to be not as bad as the appearance.

[ Reply to This ]

Ticketmaster[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 24, 2003 at 12:52:35 PM PDT

This column has really struck a nerve with me. I used Ticketmaster several times this summer. I am appalled at the fees they are allowed to charge. They should be paying me if I print my own ticket, not vice versa. In any case, I used them because it was the ONLY way to get tickets for the events I was interested in - buying tickets at the box office on the day of the event would not have worked since the event eventually sold out. But, sometimes you have to live with the economics of the situation. That would be fine, except that soon after using Ticketmaster I started receiving SPAM. LOTS of SPAM. And I'm not talking about the ads that Ticketmaster and their "partners" generate. I'm talking about SPAM from the dark corners of the internet. Up to this point, this kind of SPAM was a once in a while occurrance. Since that time, half my incoming email is SPAM. When this started occurring, the only thing I could trace back to, i.e., the only time in the recent past that I had given out my email address, was to Ticketmaster (and I had to give a legitimate email message so that I'd get the email giving me the link to print my tickets). I complained to Ticketmaster using the posted email address on the privacy policy. I received no response. I will no longer do business with Ticketmaster unless I absolutely have to. Unfortunately, that can't undo all the SPAM I'm receiving.

[ Reply to This ]

My 2 cents (plus $10 in service fees)[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by RocDoc on Thu Jul 24, 2003 at 04:34:04 PM PDT

Thanks again, Ed, for bringing another shameful vendor to light. I tried to purchase tickets online to a local show a few weeks ago, and now I am ever so ever glad that no seats were available. Especially in light of the fees tacked onto the sale. Even more so in light of their customer information usage policy.

TicketMaster had not gotten any of my money before and I guar-an-tee they'll never see a penny from me now. Ever. Even if they change their "policy". They've proven themselves untrustworthy. I'll group them in with record company execs and Movie & Theatrical studio companies.

[ Reply to This ]

a more balanced view, maybe[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by dmittleman on Fri Jul 25, 2003 at 07:11:46 AM PDT

I worked in the corporate office of Ticketmaster for four years in the 1980s. The world - and the company - are very different places now. But I may be able to provide a bit of context for TM's policies that their employees can't or won't say.

Ticketmaster sells tickets via four kinds of channels: The box office, outlets (walk up windows at retail stores), telephone, and Internet. Box offices generally only sell their own tickets (or when they sell for other's, they are functioning as outlets.) Box Offices own their own information and TM doesn't (or at least didn't) claim any ownership or right to reuse that information. Tickets sold at outlets are usually sold without collecting any personal identification from the customer. Most outlets take cash. If a credit card is used at the outlet, it is a credit card transaction of the outlet store, not of TM. For example, if you buy a Bruce Springsteen ticket at SportMart with a credit card, SportMart processes the credit card and captures that information, Ticketmaster never collects the information. [At the time I was at TM and for sometime thereafter, the TM database had no fields to hold such personal or credit information on an outlet sale. I can't speak authoritatively about what the database looks like today, but I suspect it is the same.]

If you purchase a ticket over the telephone [and I *think* the Internet uses the same database structure], an account is built and your address, phone, and credit information are kept. There are appropriate internal security checks so that minimal people have access to that information. Ticketmaster [at the time I was there] used to assert that it owned this mailing list info, rather than the Box Office for whose event the ticket was purchased. From the statments Ed has posted, it seems that TM still asserts this and that this assertion has been extended to Internet sales. There isn't really a question of legality of ownership here, as it is simply a question of what the contracts between TM and its client box offices say. If the box offices aren't complaining, they must agree TM owns this information and the box offices feel they have been appropriately compensated.

If TM owns this information, it can do with it what it pleases. Only the power of the open market will limit its use.

What the TM statement [quoted by Ed] says is appropriate and accurate. You have a choice of not buying your tickets through Ticketmaster. You can go to the box office and do your transaction with them. Whatever information they collect (even if they generate a TM ticket for you) is wholly their information - and subject to their rules for use. You can pay cash if you like. I can also vouch for the second part of the TM statement: if you buy your ticket at an outlet, you can use cash or credit card. If you use credit card, it is only the retail store who retains that information.

Ticketmaster only captures and owns your information if you purchase by phone or Internet. If you don't like this, don't buy that way.

danny

[ Reply to This ]

But they lied on the phone about this to me[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 06, 2003 at 10:52:17 AM PDT

I recently bought tickets by phone and opted to give them my email addresses so I could print out the tix at home. The rep specifically and clearly told me that the email would be used once only: I wouldn't receive further ads. I now get at least 1 spam a week from them. At least I was smart to use ticketmaster@mydomain.com : If my attempt to take myself off of their list continues to not work I'll have to delete that address.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#52)
by maderikapapa on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 07:45:37 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#54)
by maderikapapa on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 07:10:27 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#56)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#61)
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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#63)
by maderikapapa on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:31:00 PM PDT

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[ Parent | Reply to This ]

エロ[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#77)
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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#65)
by maderikapapa on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 06:39:51 AM PDT

童貞好きなエロい女性達のエロ画像をご紹介セックスしたいご近所でセックスフレンドと過ごせるセフレ系出会いサイトはココで間$ 949;いなしセックス画像なども満載セックスフレンドと逢えるならセフレ交際所で逆援助好きなエッチな奥さん逆援助でSEX体験ができる副業もココ& #12363;らスタート熟女のおまんこは人妻以上風俗でセフレを探すより出会い 995;で決まりアダルトな夜を探して人妻達が出会いを求めておりま 377;エッチな掲示板で素人ホストなども募集中エロい思いを満たせる人妻出会いサイト童貞の初心なしぐさ童貞の真面目さ童貞のエッチは激しいエロいおっぱいやおまんこを童貞さんと童貞を買ってあげる童貞のえっち体験告白や逆援助白書童貞の童貞のためのおっぱいサイトセフレ希望の女子高生が出会いを求めて恋愛探し人妻セックス体験談はエッチBBSで書き込んでくださいアダルトSNSではSEX好きな友達や彼女を出会い感覚で楽しめるナンパテクニックなども公開中アダルトサイトで無料動画をゲット童貞には刺激の強いオナニー娘との出会いや熟女との濃厚な愛撫出会い探してみませんか不倫願望の強い巨乳マダム達とセックス講座スワッピングを楽しめる出会いやSMマニア的な出会いをお届

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#67)
by maderikapapa on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:22:56 AM PDT

逆援北海道不倫青森不倫岩手不倫宮城不倫秋田不倫山形不倫福島不倫東京不倫群馬不倫埼玉不倫千葉不倫茨木不倫神奈川不倫栃木不倫山梨不倫長野不倫新潟不倫岐阜不倫静岡不倫愛知不倫三重不倫富山不倫石川不倫福井不倫滋賀不倫京都不倫大阪不倫兵庫不倫奈良不倫和歌山不倫鳥取不倫島根不倫岡山不倫広島不倫山口不倫徳島不倫香川不倫愛媛不倫高知不倫福岡不倫佐賀不倫長崎不倫熊本不倫大分不倫鹿児島不倫宮崎不倫沖縄不倫

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#69)
by Anonymous User on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:33:36 PM PDT

セレブ北海道セレブ青森セレブ岩手セレブ宮城セレブ秋田セレブ山形セレブ福島セレブ東京セレブ群馬セレブ埼玉セレブ千葉セレブ茨木セレブ神奈川セレブ栃木セレブ山梨セレブ長野セレブ新潟セレブ岐阜セレブ静岡セレブ愛知セレブ三重セレブ富山セレブ石川セレブ福井セレブ滋賀セレブ京都セレブ大阪セレブ兵庫セレブ奈良セレブ和歌山セレブ鳥取セレブ島根セレブ岡山セレブ広島セレブ山口セレブ徳島セレブ香川セレブ愛媛セレブ高知セレブ福岡セレブ佐賀セレブ長崎セレブ熊本セレブ大分セレブ鹿児島セレブ宮崎セレブ沖縄アダルト出会い

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#71)
by Anonymous User on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 08:32:01 AM PDT

北海道セフレ青森セフレ岩手セフレ宮城セフレ秋田セフレ山形セフレ福島セフレ東京セフレ群馬セフレ埼玉セフレ千葉セフレ茨木セフレ神奈川セフレ栃木セフレ山梨セフレ長野セフレ新潟セフレ岐阜セフレ静岡セフレ愛知セフレ三重セフレ富山セフレ石川セフレ福井セフレ滋賀セフレ京都セフレ大阪セフレ兵庫セフレ奈良セフレ和歌山セフレ鳥取セフレ島根セフレ岡山セフレ広島セフレ山口セフレ徳島セフレ香川セフレ愛媛セフレ高知セフレ福岡セフレ佐賀セフレ長崎セフレ熊本セフレ大分セフレ鹿児島セフレ宮崎セフレ沖縄セフレ

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Is anything shocking anymore...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 25, 2003 at 08:15:00 PM PDT

...from the company that charges "convenience fees" on tickets purchased at the friggin' venue box office?

Someone tell me, what the hell is so damned convenient about me having to get my ass out of bed early on a Saturday to drive to the concert venue and stand in line with a bunch of hung-over malcontents-- and then still be unable to get really good seats because the tickets for those have already all been given away to VIPs???

I don't buy CDs because the RIAA are a bunch of jackals, and I only go see the bands I really, really, really like in concert because TicketBastard is just as bad.

[ Reply to This ]

Ticketmaster Privacy Policy[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 28, 2003 at 07:23:45 AM PDT

Although the Ticketmaster policy is the most egregious one I've seen to date, it seems inevitable that online vendors will be gravitating to such a policy as a countermeasure to the constraints imposed by 'opt-in' or 'opt-out' policies. Don't want to be locked in by such restrictions on the use of customer information? No problem! Just tell customers that if they want to conduct business online, they will necessarily have to part with their personal info! Otherwise, feel free to do business via bricks and mortar! Case closed! As a businessman myself, and a believer in free capital markets, I intuitively oppose unreasonable restrictions on business. However, as the incidence of identity theft skyrockets, there clearly is a role for the law to play here in protecting customers' prerogatives concerning the dissemination of their personal information. As such, it should be completely unlawful for online vendors, or any vendor for that matter, to tie the dissemination of customer data to the transaction itself. In the long run, it will not serve the legitimate interests of business, much less the customer, to adopt policies that will ultimately have the effect of facilitating and fueling identity theft.

[ Reply to This ]

I respectfully disagree[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by dmittleman on Mon Jul 28, 2003 at 10:32:14 AM PDT

>As such, it should be completely unlawful for
>online vendors, or any vendor for that matter,
>to tie the dissemination of customer data to the
>transaction itself. In the long run, it will not
>serve the legitimate interests of business, much
>less the customer, to adopt policies that will
>ultimately have the effect of facilitating and
>fueling identity theft.

I disagree. It is a legitimate business model to say to a potential customer: I will provide you this product at a discounted price for the right to forward information about you to a third party. You may engage in this transaction if you wish, or decline if you wish. If you decline I will opt not to license you the product at any price.

It is a straightforward and fair contractual arrangement. I agree that a vendor should not be able to lie or mislead. I agree that shrinkwrap licenses (where you don't find out the terms until after you commit) are wrong. And I am troubled by terms permitting the vendor to change the license agreement after the fact (though as long as such terms are disclosed, it does not violate the initial statement in italics.

To make this business model illegal is shortsighted.

To suggest it does not serve the legitimate interests of a business is, IMHO, an incorrect conclusion. Providing a product at a lower cash price to a consumer can, in many instances, increase sales and benefit both business and consumer.

To suggest sharing of information fuels identity theft has a thread of truth to it. However, information can be shared in manners that would minimize such risks.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

I disrespectfully disagree[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 26, 2003 at 01:07:29 PM PDT

Ask any door-to-door salesman who's made the godawful mistake of coming to my front door. My privacy and private info is none of your business, let alone whoever you can sell it to. I don't find this a legitimate business practice, nor does anyone I know. If this is so legitimate, then why doesn't every web page have big red letters at the top saying, "By our widget for $9.95 and we're going to sell your info to the next 1000 business partners we talk to!" (much less 10,000 or 100,000)? Because you know that 90% of the people hitting your page would turn around and leave. And to parrot numerous other readers, I'm 46 years old, I'm quite capable of finding a widget. If your widget is so much better than the others, then run an ad! That's where my ability to decline comes in. I can chuck your ad in the trash along with the others. Which brings up another point. Are business people, in general, as stupid as I believe they are? We have all been pitching a royal bitch for about 35 years now concerning junk mail. Now you airheads want to call us on the phone, send us spam and take up another 10 minutes per hour of television viewing. Don't you get the point that we don't care about you? And I won't even address you arrogant ones thinking, "But MY product is so much better, you WANT to know about it!" No I don't! Go away!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

I disagree[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by drcmg on Tue Aug 26, 2003 at 03:39:42 PM PDT

Danny, the model that you propose is a reasonable, however it has nothing in common with the model that is used by TicketMaster. They do not offer a product at a discount in exchange for acces to personal information. They sell at retail and add a fee, then because you have used their service and paid the fee for that service they think that they now have the right to do whatever they please with the information that you provided during this transaction. There is no provision for you to provide less information nor is there in reality disclosure that your information will be provided to others. There is the privacy policy if you can wade through it, but in reality there are just blank in a form that are marked required.

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Ticketmaster Policies[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
by dliesse on Tue Jul 29, 2003 at 10:46:41 AM PDT

The point I find most troubling hasn't been brought up by anyone (at least not directly). If Ticketmaster has no need to forward my personal information to the venue if I buy at one of their outlets, then they have absolutely no need to forward said information to the venue if I buy online or over the phone. Acting as an agent means that Ticketmaster issues the ticket; if the venue was actually the issuing party, then Ticketmaster would be a broker.

I also must respectfully disagree with Danny, who respectfully disagreed with another response. I'm sorry, but seeling my personal information is NOT a legitimate marketing