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Microsoft Gets FAT Off File System Patents

By Jeff Foster, Section UnFairUse
Posted on Tue Dec 09, 2003 at 01:13:07 PM PDT

Patent Nonsense--Licensing
Microsoft, according to this Press release is going to begin charging for use of the FAT file system which was developed and patented by Microsft in 1976. Any company manufacturing a device that is formatted using FAT/16 or FAT32 will have to pay Microsoft $0.25 per device up to $250,000 dollars. While FAT has been replaced on hard drives by NTFS under windows, FAT has become the standard format for portable solid state drives like usb thumb drives or the flash memory cards used in digital cameras.
Sources:Published Reports, Company Website

< Same Old Network Solutions Reverts to Scare Tactics | Sega Sues EA Over Patented Gameplay Idea >

Microsoft Gets FAT Off File System Patents | 16 comments (16 topical) | Post A Comment

Don't patents expire?[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Wed Dec 10, 2003 at 10:03:34 AM PDT

I thought US patents expire after 17 years? If FAT was patented in 1976, shouldn't it be in the public domain by now?

[ Reply to This ]

Patent expiration[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by Jeff Foster on Wed Dec 10, 2003 at 08:59:06 PM PDT

While I can not be sure, I assume that the original patent was for FAT 8/12 or maybe even 4(was there such a thing?), since having 32 bit blocks would of been rather useless in the 70's. They are charging for FAT 16/32, which would of been patented much more recently.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

ddd[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 01:01:48 AM PDT

Patents[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Howling on Thu Dec 11, 2003 at 10:08:42 AM PDT

The patents that Microsoft references in the press release the basically cover the extension of the file name formats from short to long file names. The file dates on these are between 1992 and 1997.

So it appears that the old FAT with short names (8.3) is open for use patent free.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Patent Length[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Library Cat on Fri Dec 12, 2003 at 02:38:57 PM PDT

I don't have the exact cite, but US patents are now 20 years after original filing date. This happened some time in 1995, if memory serves.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

It's not about FAT at all[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by theBrain on Thu Dec 11, 2003 at 10:36:25 AM PDT

Every one of the patents referenced in the press release is related to long file names (introduced in Windows 98), not the File Allocation Table (FAT). Despite the extremely misleading introductory paragraphs, the patents themselves are completely independent of any of the FAT implementations (whether FAT12, 16, 32, or the so-called 32x).

Basically, if your device is compatible with Microsoft's long file names, you'll have to pay up.

One has to wonder why they wouldn't be more forthcoming about the true nature of the technology on which they claim and assert their rights.

[ Reply to This ]

Patents DO expire...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by SMEE on Tue Jan 06, 2004 at 07:52:26 AM PDT

...patents last only 17 years according to the Constitution. Unless Congress extends it. Anything patented in 1976 is clearly out of patent now. A smart engineer could use that old patent to essentially duplicate FAT and make it compatible with FAT standards perfectly legally. The original BIOS patent was cracked in a highly original way. The company in question--the name eludes me--set up two teams of engineers, sealed off from one another. The first team took the code apart line by line and described it in standard English. The second team took the descriptions and created a new BIOS that was compatible with existing machines. It was all perfectly legal. So, a smart lawyer and a smart engineer shouldn't have a problem getting around these phony charges... After all, if fifteen years old are publishing cracks and keygens ten minutes after the next flavor of Windows comes out or any other program, surely real adults can legally defeat yet another money grab by Gates. Wait till HDD prices reverse their recent collapse because of this! The manufacturers won't take this lying down. Either that, or we'll all be ordering FAT drives from China....

[ Reply to This ]

Patents do expire, part II[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by SMEE on Tue Jan 06, 2004 at 07:55:40 AM PDT

Left something out...what I'm talking about was not reverse engineering. I mistyped somewhat.

What I meant to say was that, the first team of engineers didn't read code, they described every function of that original BIOS and then the second team wrote new code to create that function. Even tho' this was back in the early 80s, it would not today violate the silly DMCA because it's not reverse engineering anything.

[ Reply to This ]

You're describing reverse engineering[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 02:24:20 PM PDT

Reverse engineering is both superfluous and useless when it comes to third party exploitation of patented processes. If something is patented you don't NEED to reverse engineer it because the complete description is in the patent (that's the point of the patent system, to get people to disclose their ideas in exchange for protection of them). That said, even if you go to the trouble of a clean room reverse engineering implementation of a patented process you're STILL legally unable to use it because it's STILL protected for 20 years (current length of patent which was upped from 17 a few years back).

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

Long file names...[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by SMEE on Tue Jan 06, 2004 at 07:59:48 AM PDT

...were created by Apple. So MSFT holds no monopoly there.

Surely, if as TheBrain states, the long file name patents are really the issue, someone will figure a way to defeat that as well. Perhaps Apple will port their long name system to Windows and charge a fraction...

Hmmm, competition, not something MSFT is used to...

By the way, I didn't think MSFT was founded until 1978. I could be wrong and they could have bought the patent, as they bought the original DOS for ten grand (not the fifty thousand as claimed in the TV movie a couple years back...) And their first product was a computer system to monitor street traffic flows--information the state of Washington was already giving away for free...

[ Reply to This ]

8.3 compatibility the issue[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 08, 2004 at 02:29:12 PM PDT

I think that scheme for making the long filenames compatible with the underlying 8.3 file system is what they're claiming a patent on. Apple didn't invent this because they didn't need to. Their OS isn't derived from Killdall's CP/M which had an 8.3 filename convention.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]

All the world's not a PC[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by sconeu on Tue Mar 30, 2004 at 08:49:46 AM PDT

Long file names were part of BSD 4.1 back in 1982.

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States of America.
[ Parent | Reply to This ]

FAT, LFN, and Flash memory[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jan 13, 2004 at 12:02:26 PM PDT

While numerous other OS's had Long File Names before windows did, I beilieve the issue here is the implementation of LFN on FAT. On the Flash front, I've seen several of these flash devices use FAT12, I didn't understand why until now.

[ Reply to This ]

wslaat[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
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ibelievedu[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#14)
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Microsoft Gets FAT Off File System Patents | 16 comments (16 topical) | Post A Comment

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