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AOL Spam Roadblock Takes a Toll | 47 comments (47 topical) | Post A Comment
It may well be spam[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 02:22:00 PM PDT

The original poster doesn't provide enough information to let us determine whether or not he's indeed sending spam. This lack of information leads me to believe that he may well be doing so.

Spam is defined as UBE (Unsolicited Bulk Email). If it's possible for someone to use his web form to sign some innocent victim up for his mailing list, his list is sending spam. In that case, the complaints are valid and AOL's action is correct.

It doesn't matter how much form-filling out the web page requires. What matters is whether filling out that page results in an Email that must be replied to in order to join the list. That Email should contain a random key so that only the receiver can provide the correct reply. This is one of the few ways to be sure that the person who signed that address up for the list actually owns that address and wants to subsribe.
--
Ron

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Even if you have confirmed opt-in consent...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 03:23:46 PM PDT

...there's no way to prove it, because AOL won't tell you who the complainant is. It gets kind of annoying; I've seen AOL users report our monthly (opt-in, confirmed) email postcard as spam, but also freelancers who accepted a gig from us then report our follow-up email (with travel info and the like) as spam. I understand that AOL is trying to reduce listwashing, but getting an email that boils down to "some anonymous AOL member says you spammed them" is frustrating without being in any way useful.

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More Clueless Ones[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#34)
by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 09:32:35 AM PDT

We have folks on our college campus who forward their college email to their AOL accounts. When they report a message as spam, we get dinged for it. From the messages AOL sends to me, I can tell many of these are messages from Mom, or friends, and not spam at all. I'm told the "spam" button in the AOL email interface is right next to the "delete" one... In some ways it would be easier with a mailing list: I'd script a mailing that contained the recipient's email address in the body, as AOL only redacts the headers (forwarded messages sometimes contain the AOL address in the portion of the header our mail server records). Then you'd know from the bounces which ones to drop.

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AOL's approach doesn't work[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 10, 2007 at 07:45:58 AM PDT

If AOL had a sensible approach to mail blocking, the occasional fake sign-up wouldn't have a problem. AOL could easily set up a process where a sender would be blocked if they didn't remove addresses that report SPAM within a week of the report. This would take care of any sender who failed to maintain their lists, but still allow mail from responsible list maintainers. The problem is that AOL hides the address of the member reporting SPAM, citing "privacy". This makes the AOL SPAM report useless, with the exception of catching e-mails that shouldn't have been sent in the first place. The only sensible response to AOL's approach is to refuse to send to AOL addresses, telling current or potential list subscribers that AOL's policies make it impossible to include them.

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Providing the user's Email address doesn't work[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 10, 2007 at 12:24:55 PM PDT

If AOL were to provide Email addresses, that would be a bad thing. It's the same reason why "remove me" requests don't work. Spammers don't care. If you reply to a spammer's remove address, you'll likely end up getting more spam than ever. The spammer will add your address to a "confirmed working" list. See the tale of "Nadine" at http://www.honet.com/Nadine/ for an example.

As an aside, SPAM is Hormel's meat product in a can. It's "spam" (lower case - it's not an acronym) that's UBE.
--
Ron

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Nonissue[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 03:33:49 PM PDT

Wouldn't matter if the spammer did add the address to a "confirmed working" list. They'd send a few more spams and the AOL would block them and the user would stop receiving their spams. Only they'd have a chance to remove the user requesting removal and avoid being blocked by AOL. Of course if they honor removes they're not nearly as bad as the typical spammer and perhaps not really a spammer at all.

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WTF?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 03:36:22 PM PDT

www.honet.com: Host unknown

'nuff said.

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Hey![ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:21:58 AM PDT

Will someone please supply the correct URL? http://www.honet.com/Nadine/  doesn't work

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Here's an alternate[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 10:11:04 AM PDT

You've got DNS problems, as it works every time for me. Unfortunately, I can't just give you an IP address, as it uses a "smart" host and looks for the domain name.

Try this alternate: http://static.samspade.org/mirror/www.honet.com/Nadine/
--
Ron

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Hrm[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous User on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 10:37:36 AM PDT

That link works. Thanks. But I don't have DNS problems. If I had, I couldn't have made that post, since www.gripe2ed.com would also have not resolved.

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"Not only are we all opt-in"[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by foxyshadis1 on Fri Aug 10, 2007 at 10:11:40 PM PDT

It sounds like any average vbulletin or phpbb board, you know how those things go: Sign up, get sent an email confirmation, can't do anything until you confirm, if they're set up that way. Almost all mailing lists require that step. There's no particular reason not to take them at their word.

What's happening to them is a pretty well known phenomenon by now, anyway. =\

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discussion mail not spam[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#24)
by sstraw on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 08:29:39 AM PDT

I'm another admin at the site in question.

1. It's a bunch of discussion lists, on automotive technical topics. It isn't advertising, it isn't a compiled newsletter. We are quite well versed in what is and what isn't spam.

2. To sign up, you go through the process on the website, and then have to CONFIRM the code sent to you via email. A athird party might be able to harrass you by repeatedly trying to sign you up for something, but they cannot actually sign you up unless they have access to your mailbox to get the confirmation code and complete the process.

3. In case you're confused, the "free ads" which was mentioned at the tail of the first paragraph (I did not compose the gripe) refers to a classified ads parts wanted/for sale area of the site which people have to deliberatley express an interest in.

The bulk of our problem appears to be with nitwits who think that AOL's "block this sender" or whatever is the appropriate way to exit a discussion list, and the fact that AOL doesn't report the address of the users doing this - I mean, if they're going to report to us that there's a problem, why not give us the ONE thing we need to fix it: the address of the idiot that should be blacklisted from our site?

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yes[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#41)
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AOL Spam Roadblock Takes a Toll | 47 comments (47 topical) | Post A Comment
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