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Arrested Customer Communications | 14 comments (14 topical) | Post A Comment
Is that just a rant?[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by foxyshadis1 on Fri Jan 05, 2007 at 04:05:31 PM PDT

Surprisingly enough, most legitamite businesses give you the option on signup to opt-out (even if it's sneakily worked) and put links in their emails to get off their mailing lists; in the rare events that they're a little on the sleazy or neglectful side, they come from the same address each time, which is easily blocked. Businesses have a legitamite need to market, because there's one person who needs their service and a few who will be interested but undecided, for every so many who don't care. It's not their fault that many people will actually sign themselves up to too much information.

Given that, your complaint sounds exceedingly petty, and entirely unrelated to the issue raised here.

When they start coming from a different address or server each time, or ignore an opt-out, of course it's crossed over into spammer land.

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Disagree[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by srynas on Fri Jan 05, 2007 at 06:32:19 PM PDT

You wrote "even if it's sneakily worked". Does this mean that you advocate the use of misleading wording to justify making a sale? I have opted-out of Disney spam several times, only for it to come back! When I placed an order with Intuit, I had to search for the opt-out page and totally re-enter my data. Technically, computers make it possible to avoid entering duplicate data.  Clearly it is a decision on the part of the vendor to frustrate the consumer.  If I, as a consumer, am treated this way by a business why should I have any sympathy for them?

You wrote "Businesses have a legitimate need to market". While I agree that businesses have a need to market, they do NOT have the right to intrude on the consumer by calling me up on the telephone, to sell my contact information, send spam, send credit card offers, etc. I would say that an ethical business would have an opt-in strategy, NOT an opt-out strategy.  I also advocate that any business that sells/buys my name should pay me a royalty.  After all they are trading this information to make more sales - at my expense (I paid for the computer, I pay for the phone, and my time is valuable too).


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In my experience...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by rodak on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 01:47:19 PM PDT

...about 99% of opt-out links/procedures work properly, and I never hear from the company again.  I have a folder where I keep all emails that I've opted out of, and if I ever get another from the same company, I'll make one attempt to contact them by other means (contact info on the company web site, for example).  If I continue to receive email from them, I put them on our company's blacklist (I'm the email admin, so I can do that).

I sign up for a fair amount of online services, and I submit a lot of rebates.  In each case, I use unique email address on my personal domain name, so if I ever get spammed, I'll know which company sold me out.

In several years of doing this, I've only had to blacklist about 2 companies for failing to honor an opt-out, and have only had one company sell my address to a spammer - believe it or not, I started receiving PORN spam directed at "dell@mydomain.com".  I quickly disabled that address.

All this to say that in my experience, most legitmate businesses do indeed honor an opt-out request, and don't sell email addresses to spammers.  Of course, I deal mainly with large, well-known outfits, like Amazon, Circuit City, and the like, as well as some smaller technology outfits, like electronics supply houses and such.  I don't do business involving things like gaming, gambling, p2p, porn, championship wrestling, etc, so ymmv.

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Clarification[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by foxyshadis1 on Tue Jan 09, 2007 at 08:28:03 AM PDT

I don't see how that invalidates my point in any way. Disney is a semi-spammer that should be blocked. Intuit is slimy and if not a spammer - at least it's possible to opt-out for good - still hardly an example most online businesses emulate. Almost every newsletter I have recieved follows "the rules" and don't deserve to be lumped in with them.

I believe a company should be allowed to market to customers for a limited time after a purchase with any information the customer provides them, UNLESS the customer opts-out. The act of purchasing, providing your email, CC#, address, etc, is opting in to some marketing, and I think it's perfectly ethical as long as it's restrained and infrequent. (That's why I think the monthly or semimonthly newsletter is a good format.) If it isn't, it'll be counterproductive for the company when everyone unsubscribes/blocks/ignores them anyway.

Most sites will give you an option immediately to opt out of newsletters and information sharing, a few will simply tell you they will do these things, some just won't say anything. I think the first should be mandatory, but until it is, the best you can do is weigh your need to buy from them against possible future spamming if they don't offer it.

If you can't find a communication policy and no opt-out is offered on sign-up, it's safer to not trust them and use a dummy account or skip them entirely for a site that gives you more control. You have every right to avoid untrusted merchants and sites, the way I've avoided signing up to myspace because their policies are so scary.

And I don't condone selling emails to anyone who'll pay a nickel a gross at all, it's a scummy practice. I never once said I did, and I don't believe that even constitutes "marketing" for the seller. But at least it's less egregious than companies who track and record everything they can about you and sell their entire customer databases.

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Thanks for the response[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by srynas on Tue Jan 09, 2007 at 02:17:45 PM PDT

As you have pointed out, there are many ethical companies.  The problem is that the few unethical ones ruin it for us all. The Gripelog exists to expose unethical behaviour. In a sense, because we hang-out here, the problem of unethical behavior may seem worse then it really is, but then I am paranoid.:)

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Remember[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Garminski on Wed Jan 17, 2007 at 01:08:06 PM PDT

Your only paranoid when they are not out to get you. :-) And the spammers are definatly out to get us.

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Arrested Customer Communications | 14 comments (14 topical) | Post A Comment
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